Thinking about death

[utopian]

Steph's recent video about the Gord Downie got me thinking about death recently. It's got to be one of the most philosophical topics we could discuss. When I saw it, it got me thinking about this article;

 

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article24576757.html

 

Long story short, a man was running on the beach with his headphones in when a plane had to make an emergency landing, hit him from behind and killed him. He never even knew what was coming. It makes me wonder where he was in his life. What he was planning on doing. What he wanted to do that he never will. Death waits for no one and nothing. You never know when it will come for you. You could be sitting there, just like me, typing away looking at your computer screen, and a plane or car or something crashes through your wall and kills you. Then you're the aunt in the background like Steph was just talking about.

 

This is one of the most important topics I ever consider. I feel this desperate need to feel like I exist in this world. Like I made a difference. I spent and do spend a lot of time reading history, and its relation to economics. I know the story of us, humans, and how and why the story of money is so interconnected. Most people don't even realize why the two stories are so important. Most people will never know the story, or be part of the story period. Most people will just disappear into the void and be gone forever. I made enough money reading about the history of economics. I feel like I have reached the end of the happiness money can bring.

 

 What I don't have, is people. I never figured out how to be a people person. The traumatic experiences I endured from my parents when I was less than 5 years old seem to have prevented me from ever really connecting with anyone. I have spent most of my life chasing money, only to realize now that I only ever really wanted people, even though my trauma prevents me from letting anyone in. I have been working on it. I try to be real with people a lot. It's what I like to do. Most people, unfortunately, do not like to be real. I have tested this; when I am real, it drives people away. When I am fake and superficial, people are more inclined to be around me. 

 

Either way, I end up a ghost. I see this void surrounding me, where I will disappear into the ripples of the top of the lake, never to be thought of again, as Stephan says. What can I do about it? I feel like there is nothing I can do, struggle as I might. I have sumrized that the best I can do is enjoy my life to it's fullest extent, before I have no life to enjoy any longer. I justify this course of action by the thought that, if I had the chance to know I would never enjoy my life before I was born, would I even choose to live? I don't think I would. I don't think anyone would. Knowing how much abuse I have been through and how alone I have been already, I think I would have chosen not to live as it is.  

 

But here I am. Here I am living, looking into the void of non existence, trying to be real and driving people away because of it, becoming a ghost in the process. Trying to then be fake and superficial, then never existing because of it, and being a ghost anyway. I never seem to find a decent answer. I hope, before that I get hit by a plane or whatever fate befalls me, that I find one. 

[Donnadogsoth]

Have you tried prayer?

 

Let me see if I read you:  You're an intellectual, thoughtful guy and you've gotten yourself into an existential funk relating to an alienation from people and misgivings over your contribution to the race, both of which make you unhappy.

 

Let me give you my own situation:  I have overcome a welter of unhappiness through slow accretion of theories, facts, and values which have translated into more positive personal connections with people and a better sense that I am contributing to something immortal and being part of something greater than myself.

 

Specifically, in broadest terms, this means understanding and defending Western civilisation from being dismembered by the traitors, barbarians, and the inert (or actively suicidal and viciously hateful) masses.

 

The paradox is, why should I do this if it were to make me unhappy? I could do it if it make me unhappy at a lower level, but happy at a higher level of love for one's fellows, if I knew it was contributing to all-round (lower and higher) level happiness for other people, either now or in the future. So there is a concept of sacrifice for the sake of love, for the sake of others' happiness, while hoping that you can find higher level love, all round happiness in this life.

 

So, love. What do you love and what are you willing to sacrifice for it?

[Ethereal Void]

 

Steph's recent video about the Gord Downie got me thinking about death recently. It's got to be one of the most philosophical topics we could discuss. When I saw it, it got me thinking about this article;

 

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article24576757.html

 

Long story short, a man was running on the beach with his headphones in when a plane had to make an emergency landing, hit him from behind and killed him. He never even knew what was coming. It makes me wonder where he was in his life. What he was planning on doing. What he wanted to do that he never will. Death waits for no one and nothing. You never know when it will come for you. You could be sitting there, just like me, typing away looking at your computer screen, and a plane or car or something crashes through your wall and kills you. Then you're the aunt in the background like Steph was just talking about.

 

This is one of the most important topics I ever consider. I feel this desperate need to feel like I exist in this world. Like I made a difference. I spent and do spend a lot of time reading history, and its relation to economics. I know the story of us, humans, and how and why the story of money is so interconnected. Most people don't even realize why the two stories are so important. Most people will never know the story, or be part of the story period. Most people will just disappear into the void and be gone forever. I made enough money reading about the history of economics. I feel like I have reached the end of the happiness money can bring.

 

 What I don't have, is people. I never figured out how to be a people person. The traumatic experiences I endured from my parents when I was less than 5 years old seem to have prevented me from ever really connecting with anyone. I have spent most of my life chasing money, only to realize now that I only ever really wanted people, even though my trauma prevents me from letting anyone in. I have been working on it. I try to be real with people a lot. It's what I like to do. Most people, unfortunately, do not like to be real. I have tested this; when I am real, it drives people away. When I am fake and superficial, people are more inclined to be around me. 

 

Either way, I end up a ghost. I see this void surrounding me, where I will disappear into the ripples of the top of the lake, never to be thought of again, as Stephan says. What can I do about it? I feel like there is nothing I can do, struggle as I might. I have sumrized that the best I can do is enjoy my life to it's fullest extent, before I have no life to enjoy any longer. I justify this course of action by the thought that, if I had the chance to know I would never enjoy my life before I was born, would I even choose to live? I don't think I would. I don't think anyone would. Knowing how much abuse I have been through and how alone I have been already, I think I would have chosen not to live as it is.  

 

But here I am. Here I am living, looking into the void of non existence, trying to be real and driving people away because of it, becoming a ghost in the process. Trying to then be fake and superficial, then never existing because of it, and being a ghost anyway. I never seem to find a decent answer. I hope, before that I get hit by a plane or whatever fate befalls me, that I find one. 

 

Speaking of existential voids...Anyways, has your time on these boards alleviated any feelings of loneliness (emotional/intellectual) you've been suffering through? I can really relate to your post, especially after coming to terms with the perpetual physical and emotional abuse I've endured (and continue to). It makes it hard for people like us to really connect...

 

BTW: Someone please help, forum novice over here who doesn't know how to separate these message quotes.

[dsayers]

@utopian: I am sorry that your parents did not model for or otherwise teach you how to socialize and/or the importance of having a support network. I can sympathize because this was my reality also.

 

Trying to then be fake and superficial, then never existing because of it

I would like to challenge this. If I cross paths with somebody on the street and we engage in small talk, that person isn't trying to interact with ME, but rather be pleasant with the other human being in their midst. If I were to converse with them in kind, I wouldn't be erasing myself, but rather participating on a level that happens to be the nature of our relationship: fleeting. If we eat too much or too little, it is not good for us even though we appear to be surviving in the moment. As we are social creatures, human contact is another form of nourishment that we NEED. But you cannot expect to go full tilt with a stranger or hold out on a friend and be healthy despite appearing to survive. Does that make sense?

 

I think this is important to understand because you put forth what I view as a false dichotomy which leads to the implied conclusion that you are helpless. I will be continuing on based on this assumption, so pardon me if I've misinterpreted your sentiment.

 

A little over half a year ago, I was in defeatist mode, "happily" making myself very small and engaging in very little human contact. When I decided to branch out, I happened to meet somebody who fit me so perfectly, it was like the crack cocaine of human contact. I felt very alive and ready to conquer the world! Then that was taken from me under circumstances where I was suddenly in a human contact deprivation chamber of sorts.

 

Well, going back to the food analogy, when you're starving, you'll eat a bug you find. Similarly, I scrounged for ANY human contact that I could get. I was desperate, but it got me through the hard times. And as luck would have it, I came away with some really solid contacts. Including a couple of people who will likely be lifetime friends and have been powerful allies that helped me to survive when survival didn't seem plausible.

 

Which brings me to my question: What all have you done? You speak as if you believe yourself to either be helpless or out of options. How many FDR'ers have you tried to develop a personal relationship with? I know you've started a number of personal threads and garnered a number of responses. How many of them do you know anything about other than their membership status and input into those threads? If nothing else, why not?

 

Lastly, I just wanted to tell you that I'm glad you were chasing money when you weren't chasing people. I wasn't doing that, so I am that much further behind as I rally to put my life back together. The money will at least provide you with a few more options should you choose to avail yourself of them.

[utopian]

Speaking of existential voids...Anyways, has your time on these boards alleviated any feelings of loneliness (emotional/intellectual) you've been suffering through? I can really relate to your post, especially after coming to terms with the perpetual physical and emotional abuse I've endured (and continue to). It makes it hard for people like us to really connect...

 

Only a little. Just by the mechanic of seeing that others are struggling under some of the same conditions that I am. There is good information to be found around here. The same thing that happens IRL seems to be the same that happens on here though. I simply post my thoughts and interests and let anyone willing to come around, come around. I don't connect. I never have. 

 

 

 As we are social creatures, human contact is another form of nourishment that we NEED. But you cannot expect to go full tilt with a stranger or hold out on a friend and be healthy despite appearing to survive. Does that make sense?

 

This is what makes me think I am sociopathic. I have gone great lengths of time without any human contact. My money allowed me to shut myself away for months at a time. I remember one day waking up in the house, looking around, realizing just how empty it was, how alone I was. I remember not being bothered by it, but being bothered by not being bothered by it. I remember thinking how unusual my situation is. I am very much anti social. Posting here is one attempt of trying to break away from it. 

 

 

Which brings me to my question: What all have you done? You speak as if you believe yourself to either be helpless or out of options. How many FDR'ers have you tried to develop a personal relationship with? I know you've started a number of personal threads and garnered a number of responses. How many of them do you know anything about other than their membership status and input into those threads? If nothing else, why not?

 

Well I have tried a number of things. I tried PUA stuff for a while. Its... interesting, but there is no connecting.  Or maybe, I am the one who is not connecting. I look into interesting articles and reads of psychology. I have not really developed any relationships with anyone. I am not a people person. I sometimes wish I was. There is this guy I hang out with who is a people person, he always has people around. I did him some big favors and, even though I don't think he likes me too much, he strives to include me in his life. I don't enjoy hanging out with him too much, but I do because I think it is good for me. TBH I try not to socialize online, as I feel that's separating me from real connections. It's mostly that I feel lost, more than helpless. I feel like I keep circling around the answer but never get to it. 

 

And a lot of the time, I just think hey, I could get hit by a car right now, why not just go out and enjoy myself however I want, then I do. Anything else takes time away from that.

[dsayers]

I have gone great lengths of time without any human contact. My money allowed me to shut myself away for months at a time. I remember one day waking up in the house, looking around, realizing just how empty it was, how alone I was. I remember not being bothered by it

Choice is a VERY powerful motivator for humans. The beginning of my story looked like this. I wanted nothing more than to just be left alone. Then when I was in the human contact deprivation chamber, that loneliness was almost maddening. It was everything I had hoped for in my old life, where I had choice. Once I had no choice, it was unsettling to the core.

 

even though I don't think he likes me too much, he strives to include me in his life.

On what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that he doesn't like you too much? Why would somebody who doesn't like you include you in their lives? Have you ever asked him what value you bring to the relationship?

 

I try not to socialize online, as I feel that's separating me from real connections.

How do you know? What evidence do you have to support this? "I'm hungry." "We have some peanut butter and jelly." "I try not to eat that as I feel that's separating me from real food." "Um... but I thought you were hungry?"

 

I would call this an artificial barrier. A self-fulfilling prophecy. My favorite person in the whole world is somebody I met online. My 2nd most rewarding relationship ever also started online. I have received financial and emotional support a couple times in my life from people who only knew me online. The list goes on. Yes, not being able to shake the hand of, hug, or look into the eyes of the person you're connecting with is a bummer. That doesn't mean it's a fake connection.

 

There's an old nautical mantra: Any port in a storm. God damn right!

[rosencrantz]

What is it that you want to achieve with these posts?

[utopian]

On what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that he doesn't like you too much? Why would somebody who doesn't like you include you in their lives? Have you ever asked him what value you bring to the relationship?

 

Well sometimes I see he gets tired of me being a drag. I seem to have this problem a lot. Still, he knows I am a dependable and good guy so he puts up with me and tries to have fun. 

 

 

 

How do you know? What evidence do you have to support this? 

 

Just my feelings. I do talk to people online sometimes. It only ever feels more like me spending time with the computer. 

 

 

What is it that you want to achieve with these posts?

 

Ah, sorry, I tend to get led away from my original intentions. I want to know what other people do to feel like they exist, like you matter, what you do to feel like you're not just going to disappear into nothingness. Or if you even think about that at all, and if it does not bother you, I wonder why not.

What is it that you want to achieve with these posts?

 

Ah, sorry, I tend to get led away from my original intentions. I want to know what other people do to feel like they exist, like you matter, what you do to feel like you're not just going to disappear into nothingness. Or if you even think about that at all, and if it does not bother you, I wonder why not.

[Will Torbald]

I want to know what other people do to feel like they exist, like you matter, what you do to feel like you're not just going to disappear into nothingness. Or if you even think about that at all, and if it does not bother you, I wonder why not.

I accept it. All the supposed immortal heroes will be forgotten. The human species will be extinct one day. The sun will destroy the earth one day. The universe will expand forever and have its heat death. No one will come. No one will know we existed. It does not matter. It shouldn't matter. It's better that it doesn't. Striving for heroism and salvation, wishing to change the world, to make it better, to have your name written in history, to not be a forgotten aunt - all those achievements will be for nothing. They only make you feel good now if your ego demands it. And if you do become a hero, you're only temporarily so after the culture and morality of society changes and spits on you after they have been subverted. And definitely after we become extinct. We were nothing and we will be nothing. Nothing wrong with that.

[Donnadogsoth]

I accept it. All the supposed immortal heroes will be forgotten. The human species will be extinct one day. The sun will destroy the earth one day. The universe will expand forever and have its heat death. No one will come. No one will know we existed. It does not matter. It shouldn't matter. It's better that it doesn't. Striving for heroism and salvation, wishing to change the world, to make it better, to have your name written in history, to not be a forgotten aunt - all those achievements will be for nothing. They only make you feel good now if your ego demands it. And if you do become a hero, you're only temporarily so after the culture and morality of society changes and spits on you after they have been subverted. And definitely after we become extinct. We were nothing and we will be nothing. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Suicide over a stubbed toe...

[Will Torbald]

Suicide over a stubbed toe...

Not at all what I meant.

[utopian]

Have you tried prayer?

 

So, love. What do you love and what are you willing to sacrifice for it?

 

No I'm not religious. I am not sure what I would do for love. I don't think I know what that is really. Some people tell me you have to give it to have it, but that's a failure of logic if I don't have it in the first place. 

 

 

I accept it. All the supposed immortal heroes will be forgotten. The human species will be extinct one day. The sun will destroy the earth one day. The universe will expand forever and have its heat death. No one will come. No one will know we existed. It does not matter. It shouldn't matter. It's better that it doesn't. Striving for heroism and salvation, wishing to change the world, to make it better, to have your name written in history, to not be a forgotten aunt - all those achievements will be for nothing. They only make you feel good now if your ego demands it. And if you do become a hero, you're only temporarily so after the culture and morality of society changes and spits on you after they have been subverted. And definitely after we become extinct. We were nothing and we will be nothing. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Actually I think we just might make it off this rock and into the stars. Science is evolving at an incredible rate. But even if that is the case, doesnt the prospect of that bother you? That you will just disappear forever one day, as if you had never existed? Don't you want to matter?

Have you tried prayer?

 

So, love. What do you love and what are you willing to sacrifice for it?

 

No I'm not religious. I am not sure what I would do for love. I don't think I know what that is really. Some people tell me you have to give it to have it, but that's a failure of logic if I don't have it in the first place. 

[Donnadogsoth]

No I'm not religious. I am not sure what I would do for love. I don't think I know what that is really. Some people tell me you have to give it to have it, but that's a failure of logic if I don't have it in the first place. 

 

If you're not willing to sacrifice anything for the sake of mankind, then why are you worried?  Just find your favourite pleasant distractions, turn on, tune out, and press PLAY.

[Will Torbald]

Actually I think we just might make it off this rock and into the stars. Science is evolving at an incredible rate. But even if that is the case, doesnt the prospect of that bother you? That you will just disappear forever one day, as if you had never existed? Don't you want to matter?

 

Matter to whom? I think, and this is just hypothesis, but that general and abstract feelings of wanting to matter are a mask on personal feelings of wanting to matter to someone or something specific - a father, a mother, a loved one, a society, etc. "Matter to the universe" is too impersonal to be a root cause of an emotion. It's the excuse on which a deeper longing rests.