Tattoos - Red Flags?

[aviet]

Do you believe that tattoos are red flags in terms of entering into a relationship with someone?

I've seen them as a negative, since I was a child, reinforced when I began thinking (15) and has been reinforced since. Though I don't have a specifically developed philosophy on them.

I am particularly interested in any insights FDRers may have into general psychology of a tattooed person.

The crux of my casual thinking on tattoos is that they are an act of attention seeking, probably with the idea of establishing individuality with something that is literally skin-deep.

[dsayers]

Here's the last thread on the subject https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/45471-do-you-like-tattoos/

[EclecticIdealist]

Do you believe that tattoos are red flags in terms of entering into a relationship with someone?

Not inherently. There are some tattoos that I personally don't care for and would find distracting; but there are others which I find interesting or attractive. It has a great deal to do with where the tattoos are on the person's body, what they depict, and how skillfully or artfully they are drawn and inked.

I am particularly interested in any insights FDRers may have into general psychology of a tattooed person.

I don't think such a psychology can be generalized. One might be able to get a general psychology as to why some girls get tattoos in certain places, and why some guys get tattoos in certain places.  One may even get a general psychological profile as well based on the type, size, and location of such tattoos, as well as the age that they got the tattoo; but a general psychology of people (or even one particular sex) who get tattoos? That's like asking about the general psychology of women who pierce their ears.

The crux of my casual thinking on tattoos is that they are an act of attention seeking, probably with the idea of establishing individuality with something that is literally skin-deep.

While that certainly may be true of some people (both men and women) who get tattoos; I know that for a great many, perhaps a majority, who get tattoos, it has nothing at all to do with attention seeking, and the tattoo has a far more personal, non-attention seeking meaning.

[aviet]

Here's the last thread on the subject https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/45471-do-you-like-tattoos/

 

Thanks. I guess I should have done a search first. There are interesting points there; and your own points are in the same generalist ball-park as my own.

 

Your summary here was interesting: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/45471-do-you-like-tattoos/?p=415974

 

I guess there are a lot of factors that can go into having a tattoo, I just don't think they are likely to be healthy. My main thinking in regards to women is that it does not seem like a good hallmark of a potential mother.

 

As good as this may look:

 

https://pp.vk.me/c613526/v613526865/b76a/QYwNCmvmANU.jpg

 

It just says to me:

 

Pleasure seeking

Sleeping around

Broken family

Divorce

Alimony

 

At around age 17-18 one of my friends got a large tattoo on their back and revealed it dramatically to a group of about 5-6 people, asking what they thought about it. In his case I think the main drive was to be alternative and individualistic, which would fit in with a number of other 'spills' he has made. Spills being inadvertent disclosure of insecurities. The tattoo was also an abomination that looked like it had been done by a child. Several years later he went to another tattoo parlor in the same town to have it fixed. By this time the parlor he used had closed. When he went into the new parlor and showed them his tattoo, they said, "Oh my God. It's the guy!" This new parlor had inherited the photo catalouge of tattoos from the old parlor and his tattoo had been singled out as the worst of the lot, earning him the nickname, "The Guy".

 

I don't see getting a tattoo to be an expression of your individual beeing. Its something anyone can do, and many do, but not many people can come up with an original idea, or even discuss one.

 

 

I know that for a great many, perhaps a majority, who get tattoos, it has nothing at all to do with attention seeking, and the tattoo has a far more personal, non-attention seeking meaning.

If I have a personal philosophy/experience/notion etc. the best place for it is my head and speech. I fail to see why someone would feel the need to commit something like this to flesh.

[EclecticIdealist]

If I have a personal philosophy/experience/notion etc. the best place for it is my head and speech. I fail to see why someone would feel the need to commit something like this to flesh.

It's not always about you (or someone else's viewing pleasure). When I said it's personal, it's personal for them. You are perfectly free to disagree, and even judge and condemn others for not sharing your personal opinions and preferences; but you started the thread by seeking the perspective of others. I hope you've found some answers.

[aviet]

It's not always about you (or someone else's viewing pleasure). When I said it's personal, it's personal for them. You are perfectly free to disagree, and even judge and condemn others for not sharing your personal opinions and preferences; but you started the thread by seeking the perspective of others. I hope you've found some answers.

I neither agree or disagree; nor do I condemn people who get tattoos. It does not seem healthy to me, though I am open to persuasion. I am curious about the thread of thought you have started, I just don't understand the reasoning you are suggesting: personal, non-attention seeking.

 

Unless I am mangling it, it seems you are suggesting people get tattoos for personal reasons and essentially do not care if anyone else sees the tattoo; it is either for their eyes only, or maybe the eyes of a small group or single person.

 

I can somewhat understand someone getting a tattoo for their partner/spouse; though I am not sure why they would want to do that. But I fail to see what they might be thinking if they get a tattoo that is only meant to be for them, particularly if it is generally visible.

 

You say, "I know that for a great many, perhaps a majority, who get tattoos ... [for] far more personal, non-attention seeking meaning." Yet if that was the case, I am not sure how you would have come across so many sentiments in relation to people's tattoos, or even their existence.

 

From life I have learnt that people do not always express their true sentiments and may not even be aware of what they are. If I asked my friend why he got his tattoo I doubt 'attention seeking' would be his answer, though it definitely was, in combination with creating a certain image of himself.

 

I think a somewhat similar area is cars. It seems apparent to me that some people buy high-value cars as a status-symbol for other people to see. Sure there will be other reasons, such as enjoying driving it, but I think influencing other people's perceptions will be a considerable factor. It is the same reason ancient rulers liked to adorn themselves with vestiges of wealth and majesty. They no doubt liked how it looked and got off on the feeling such accouterments gave them, but the perception of other would have been a big if not the biggest factor in such items.

 

Could you outline a train of through that you think might be behind someone getting a non-attention-seeking tattoo? And if you happen to have a tattoo. How does it make you feel?

[EclecticIdealist]

Unless I am mangling it, it seems you are suggesting people get tattoos for personal reasons and essentially do not care if anyone else sees the tattoo; it is either for their eyes only, or maybe the eyes of a small group or single person.

 

You say, "I know that for a great many, perhaps a majority, who get tattoos ... [for] far more personal, non-attention seeking meaning." Yet if that was the case, I am not sure how you would have come across so many sentiments in relation to people's tattoos, or even their existence.

 

Could you outline a train of through that you think might be behind someone getting a non-attention-seeking tattoo? And if you happen to have a tattoo. How does it make you feel?

Many people I know who have tattoos get them as momentos for significant events in their life to memorialize them. An example is the number of people I know who have the name of a deceased loved one (often a child, sometimes a sibling, or friend, etc.) They get the tattoo in a spot that they see in order to remind them of the person and usually do not mind if others notice it or not.  I know others who get a tattoo to remind them of a significant decision in their life such as not abusing drugs, or recovery of their sense of self-worth and self-esteem after years of traumatic abuse, etc. These are tattoos that they often have on a hand or wrist to serve as a near constant reminder of a battle hard fought and won, or perhaps one which they are continually fighting (such as addiction, depression, or feelings of low self worth, etc.) Still others I know get tattoos representing a quality or qualities which they wish to embody such as strength, peace, etc.  All of these are personal tokens which they may or may not feel self-conscious over explaining to others.

 

I'm not saying that these are the only reasons why people get tattoos meant only or primarily for themselves to understand or enjoy, but these are some of the reasons people have conveyed to me as to why they have gotten certain tattoos.

 

In the future, I may get a tattoo, and if or when I do, it will be something that is personally meaning to me, something I want to carry with me my entire life, something beautifully and artistically rendered, and not necessarily something for anyone but my most intimate family and friends to see (unless I happen to be at the beach, etc.) or know about. I may also get one as a token to remind myself of something I wish to constantly embody in my everyday life, such as mindfulness or deliberate action.

 

I hope that helps answer your question.

[aviet]

 

I hope that helps answer your question.

Yes thanks. Would vote up, but I can't.

[LuummaKabooma]

Hi,

Without becoming too tangential in my reply, as the previous response to your question was very eloquently put, I'll keep this simple. I am a woman and work as a registered nurse. I grew up with an authoritative, raging, German father who made his disgust with tattoos and piercings extremely vocal. For some time as I teenager I adopted his views but secretly admired that which he despised. I dared not bring anybody I knew with "body art" anywhere within close proximity to my father for fear he'd "go off" on a wild, explicitly verbal and anger filled rant. As the years passed, my mother died and a few years later, my aunt (her sister) committed suicide. I was extremely close to both of them. A few years after losing my mother, I was determined to have a tattoo done in her memory. After thirty-six hours of ink work in total, I had my back piece finished and to this very day, I love it to pieces. It is an extremely personal work of art with very deep meaning. I designed it in such a way that it is only visible if I purposefully show it (I rarely do).

 

After losing my beloved aunt to suicide, I did the very same and designed a very special piece of ink in her memory. Again, in an area that is always covered unless I choose to show it (which I rarely do). Both my pieces are quite large. To see me out and about, one would probably never even guess that I had even one very small tattoo, let alone two very large ones.

 

Simply put, the tattoos that I now have are extremely personal and one of many different ways that I have honoured my loved ones. I wouldn't have it any other way. Only for me, I keep them very private. Also, after many years of fearing my father as I child, I made sure to tell him about my tattoos and why I decided to have them done. Up until telling him, he had absolutely no idea and I absolutely didn't give a sweet f¥€k how angry he might become. Surprisingly, I think he secretly admired me for my decision to honour my mother and aunt in this way. I've often wondered if my father still lives and operates in fear of his extremely abusive, dead father.

 

I do not see body ink as being a red flag at all. They often tell a story.... Gang work, vulgarities and swastikas etc., would for obvious reasons, raise an eyebrow but these aren't the types of tattoos I'm referring to here.

 

Thanks for sharing your question.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

First, I want to say anyone who has a bad child hood deserves tremendous sympathy.

 

That said, if you love someone you don't need to ink your own flesh to say so. That's not what connection is. Connection is about sharing intimacy and emotions. If that's not possible, it's because some person you claim to "love" is actually not emotionally available because they were abusive (being complicit in abuse is a form of abuse) and never apologized for all the harm they caused.

 

If that's the case, then virtuous love is not possible. If this cannot be acknowledged, then all the pain that is due to the lack of connection cannot be acknowledged; a tattoo being passed of as a symbol of "love" for an abusive person is but another symptom of that inability to acknowledge the suffering they wrought.

 

The idea that you cannot judge a tattoo as a tattoo is to say you cannot judge self harm as self harm. Sometimes you don't need more context to judge an action, because there is only one purpose for it. The purpose would be for a tattoo to communicate unacknowledged suffering where intimacy is not possible.

 

If you are a healthy person, you share connections, not scars. You only share the scars as a means to connect once you have processed why they are there. Virtuous love will never, ever be an impetus to voluntarily scar oneself, because self harm is not rewarded in virtuous love, and instead is replaced by intimacy, compassion, and empathy. When you have intimacy, compassion, and empathy for a person, you are against them voluntarily inflicting pain on themselves, because it hurts you just as much.

[dsayers]

Matthew M., I agree with the bulk of your sentiment and respect you as a member. So I hope you'll find my criticisms to be born out of my love for specificity.

 

That said, if you love someone you don't need to ink your own flesh to say so.

I'm not sure what the meaning is here. "Need" is not a standard for any voluntary, moral action.

 

Everybody has things that they do that not only isn't what they need, but probably isn't the best for them. I think it's easy to focus on a tattoo bearer because their trauma/perceived bad decision is on display. But if you order a burger and fries instead of a salad or smoke a cigarette, you're just as permanently damaging yourself, probably out of a lack of self-love and/or the ripple of childhood trauma.

 

I look forward to your feedback as I'm biased to hell on the topic, on both sides of the fence really.

[Eh Steve]

Tattoos follow an emotional pattern for me that I'm curious if people relate to:

 

To me, from a young age, I've been quite convinced that something was horribly wrong.  I'm still quite convinced of the objective and emotional truth of that statement.

 

Tattoos to me symbolize a great rift in what I consider my core belief.  That someone felt confident enough to say "this is a good idea".  "I will want this forever".  That someone felt capable and comfortable making a permanent decision.  I feel like people who make permanent decisions might not hold the same core belief about the issues I feel are present in the world.  I worry it is someone who may be superficial, or someone who has some recognition of emotional pain but is acting it out artistically rather than identifying its cause.

 

In my life I have found people interested in much of anything, whether it be as simple as careers, hobbies, interests, or getting a tattoo.... I often find myself cynical.  It is hard because I believe other people do legitimately enjoy themselves.  But throughout my life I've found it difficult to enjoy much of anything.  I've never been able to confidently say "this is a great idea".  "I'm really into this".  Nagging at the back of my psyche has always been the reality of the world, my place in it, my relationships, and how messed up that largely has been.

 

Someone capable of getting a tattoo would likely not share this same persistent nagging doubt I have carried with me.  That has kept me safe from many mistakes.  To me in comparison this person might be reckless and less aware or committed to the cause.

 

This trend flowed in a lot of areas in my life.  For example I had a discussion with my cousin many years ago.  He had just been hired by Porsche and was quite excited about it.  And my response was something to the effect of: "What's the point?".  "Cars are an abject waste of time"  "You need to focus on the emotional and relational collapses that have happened in your life, and anything outside of focusing on that is a distraction".

 

Tattoos are tricky in that they are a form of expression, permanent, and well known to be regretted.  But in life I think I've found there are many red flags.  And that what I prefer to look for beyond the redflag is the same distaste, disillusionment, and desire to improve the emotional state of the world and their lives.  I like to call these green lights

 

I look for people whom have some sort of emotional depth.  People who enjoy conversation.  Certainly in looking for a future wife my criteria is very high in terms of emotional awareness, experience in therapy, general happiness, interest in peaceful parenting etc. etc.

 

The red flags don't really matter that much.  Tattoos are rough since they often come from a troubled time in a persons life.  For someone with tattoos I'd hold them to the same standards of looking to see if they have done the emotional work and have the same beliefs in what makes for a happy life and feelings about the state of what is normalcy these days.  In looking for green lights any existing red flags become readily apparent.

 

As an addendum.  The most important factor in a relationship is going to be you.  In looking at the red flags of others, be sure you are aware of and are working on the red flags within yourself.  Do you meet the standards you believe necessary for a happy life and a happy relationship? When you develop a deeply felt confidence of your ability to maintain your own happiness, emotional awareness, ability to be empathetic and intimate, you'll be less concerned about the red flags in others.  You will be able to gauge based on your feelings whether or not this is a good person for you.  Looking for red flags can be a sign of not listening to your feelings and instincts about people.

[aviet]

Simply put, the tattoos that I now have are extremely personal and one of many different ways that I have honoured my loved ones. I wouldn't have it any other way. Only for me, I keep them very private.

Your story is interesting. I still don't understand what the drives behind getting such a tattoo are. If I was in such a situation (I have been in a similar one) I would not feel compelled to get a tattoo. For me there is no need to create such a memorial - the knowledge of such connections in my head are enough.

 

Would you say there is an element of tribalism to your tattoos? The words "I have honoured my loved ones." conjured up such images in my head.

 

So there is definitely a category of people who could be called pretentious and I have a good idea of the mental processes which drove them to ink; but in the case of personal tattoos that are private I don't understand what it is that would convince someone to get a tattoo; while other people who may have been through the same circumstances do not find it necessary.

 

 

In my life I have found people interested in much of anything, whether it be as simple as careers, hobbies, interests, or getting a tattoo.... I often find myself cynical.  It is hard because I believe other people do legitimately enjoy themselves.  But throughout my life I've found it difficult to enjoy much of anything.  I've never been able to confidently say "this is a great idea".  "I'm really into this".  Nagging at the back of my psyche has always been the reality of the world, my place in it, my relationships, and how messed up that largely has been.

 

Someone capable of getting a tattoo would likely not share this same persistent nagging doubt I have carried with me.  That has kept me safe from many mistakes.  To me in comparison this person might be reckless and less aware or committed to the cause.

An insightful post. Some of the sentiments more-or-less mirror my sentiments; on tattoos - I doubt their validity and cannot see any value in them. Like yourself I place a high value on people's thoughts and perceptions. If they found the time and money to get an elaborate, personal tattoo, the same sentiments behind getting it could be relayed just as easily without it. And without the tattoo my suspicions of potentially negative mental traits would not be so easily sprung into action.