I got 99 problems, and FOO is one.

[ShaneInTX]

Okay, so everybody sit indian style around their laptops and get ready for story time..

 

Recently, I have approached my father about my childhood.  The basic rundown looks like this: abusive single parent alcoholic (mom died when I was 5), verbal / physical / emotional abuse. ACE score of 9. Basically, everything but the fondling / sexual bit. After I asked some pointed questions about my relationship and my reality with him as a child, showed him my ACE test, and persisted beyond the point of which he wanted to speak about it, he has said he is going to cut me out of the will, and then recently he said that he was going to sleep with a loaded firearm by his bedside and lock all windows/doors because he was afraid I would try to take his life. And also get his roommate to do the same. And he thinks *I* have a problem and *I* need to go take anger management classes. All for approaching him about 3 basic issues.

 

1.) Why he chose alcohol over me, and got piss drunk every night from the time I was 5 when my mother died to when I was 16 or 17. The alcohol abuse continued after a brief hiatus. I wondered if he ever even bothered to look at what that might do to my development on a basic level, emotional suppression / retardation, an overall lack of bond, etc.

 

2.) He brought a second abuser into my life in a girlfriend, who he eventually married after I left home for college, who beat on him to the point of leaving bruises, and threatened his life with a knife on more than one occasion. I posed the question of why he stayed with her, when he knew she was violent, and could have done that to me as well.  It put my well being knowingly at risk.

 

3.) Why he taught me to lie, to self erase, and left me feeling isolated and powerless in the relationship. He was always "going to do what he was going to do," and I might as well "choose to feel differently."  The house had to stay "calm, cool, and copecetic," because he couldn't handle conflict... unless, of course, I disagreed and I didn't say/think/do what he wanted. When my preferences or thoughts/feelings/emotions were contrary to his, and I persisted, I risked the explosive rage (hit with a belt and his hand, he feigned violence with a raised hand very frequently) that was his temper, or the frigidity of  complete intellectuall/emotional abandonment.  It's only after finding FDR and really working on my relationships that I finally was able to escape such a horrible voodoo spell. 

 

Anyway, if anybody in the community has any thoughts/ideas/questions about my current situation with the FOO, I'd appreciate looking into it more from a self-knowledge perspective.. or even if you can suggest any resources to read about family systems, or how to understand what went on better.. Thanks!

[dsayers]

I'm very sorry to hear about what you've been through and what you're going through. I can completely empathize and sympathize as I had a similarly abusive childhood and adult life relationship with my father.

 

Why did your mother die? Do you have any recollection of life before that? Do you have any insight as to what their relationship looked like? How do you feel about the fact that she chose for HIM to be your father? While he doesn't sound like the caring type at all, I can only imagine how brutal it must have been to lose her. Not that this excuses ANYTHING he's done since. Still, I have a huge sore spot for losing one's life partner.

 

Why would he think that you needed an anger management program? Was your method of approach hostile? I'm not judging you either way. It's very good to be angry at him for what he's done. That said, there's also the matter of survival to take into consideration. If he's violent and turns to threatening violence, provocation might not be an approach that has any chance of resolution. At least it sounds like you've received your answer that restitution will not be forthcoming. If you can accept that, it will be a good sized step forward for you I think.

 

What is your situation now? Are you under his roof? And if so, what are your prospects for getting out of there? Or if you're not under his roof, how much of your life overlaps his? And what can you do to eliminate that?

 

I do wish you well in your self-knowledge journey efforts. You don't want the trauma of your past damaging your happiness in the future. I lost my life partner because she was re-creating the trauma of her past and literally could not allow herself to be happy. And I wasn't completely free from the abuse of my history. And as tragedy would have it, I was "cured" the very moment she decided to throw me away.

[Will Torbald]

He probably blames himself good the death of his wife and the resulting alcoholism and abuse is a way of punishing himself. Not an excuse, not ever, but it's *how* things get out of control.

[EclecticIdealist]

I can save you a lot of time and wasted effort if you are able to really accept what I've written below.  If not, you'll continue to suffer in one way or another from your past.
 
1) The reason your father chose alcoholism over a sober relationship with you was that is was less painful for him to escape into an intoxicated state than to deal with the reality of the loss of your mother, the burden of a young child (which he may not have even wanted), and probably his own feelings of inadequacy in various, if not all aspects of his life (regardless of whether any or all of these perceptions were accurate), and a dominant, abusive partner than to face these realities and deal with each one in a responsible, sober manner. In short, he was not a good father; he did not believe he was up to the task of being a good father, and he ensured he wasn't by being an abusive, alcoholic. Are you really wondering whether he stopped for a moment to see what effect this might have on your life? Would it really matter if he had and simply determined that he didn't care as much about your needs and desires as his own? Why would you need him to admit as much when you both know that you both already know the truth? if it's for his sake, there's likely a better approach to take; if it's for your own sake, what is it exactly that you hope or expect to gain from such an admission if it should ever occur?
 
2) Do you really not know why he stayed with someone who was physically (and likely emotionally and psychologically) abusive to him? Do you really need him to tell you? Why do you need him to tell you? How would that change anything that happened or anything that might happen going forward? You know why he chose to stay with her if you actually take the trouble to think about it. What positive things did he get from the relationship that he considered outweighed the negative? Might he have actually desired the abuse as a means of punishing himself, or might he have simply felt powerless in obtaining what he wanted or felt he needed in any other way or from any other person?
 
3) Do you really not understand why he taught you to lie, to self erase, leaving you to feel isolated and powerless in the relationship? Or do you simply want him to acknowledge that he did? In what way would you benefit from his acknowledgement? What have you learned from him about how to manage relationships? Do you think what you learned from him is the only or best way to manage relationships?
 

He was always "going to do what he was going to do," and I might as well "choose to feel differently."

 
Ironically, this is good advice; although until you know HOW to choose to feel differently, you won't be able to. How might this advice reflect how he may have been told to deal with the loss of your mother, or how to deal with the dominance that the woman had over him in his relationship? Might this have also been the case with his relationship with your mother, or was he the dominant one in that relationship?
 
Clearly, your father did not have the necessary skills to resolve conflict in a cooperative manner. It must have been incredibly frustrating for him to always feel at a loss for power and control in the relationship. I suspect you can see how this played out in his relationship with the woman he brought home who clearly had the power in the relationship. People like your father seldom have a good model to pattern their relationships after and consequently make every relationship a dominant/submissive one rather than a cooperative one. When the person who is in the dominant position of such a relationship feels their control slipping, they act out in the only way they know will always work, they resort to violence and abuse (they turn up the dominance) in order to maintain control.

[ShaneInTX]

dsayers, on 02 Jun 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

 

I do wish you well in your self-knowledge journey efforts. You don't want the trauma of your past damaging your happiness in the future. I lost my life partner because she was re-creating the trauma of her past and literally could not allow herself to be happy. And I wasn't completely free from the abuse of my history. And as tragedy would have it, I was "cured" the very moment she decided to throw me away.

 

 

 

Yeah, it's a horrible thing to realize your father may have never really loved you to begin with.  I appreciate the empathy, it's one reason why I love coming to the board and learning from you guys. 

 

Why did your mother die? Official cause of death was congestive heart failure.  She just went to sleep and never woke up, at 37.  I really have no recollection of my childhood before 5 years old, except being outside in the flower beds with my mother as she dug around in the dirt I do not recall what their relationship was like, but I know alcohol was involved on a semi consistent basis.  As far as their relationship, I have been told that she was different than any other woman my father ever dated, because she was not outgoing or charming, but more down to earth. The truth is she was an appeaser. He mentioned much later on that he would have killed himself if I was not around to take care of.. and I use "care" loosely.  I found a letter a year ago that he actually wrote about drinking himself to death as a conscious decision, and going away slowly.. that was written when I was 8 to 10 years old. 

 

My method of approach was not aggressive in the least, it was an explanation of what my reality was like, why I was interested in these particular experiences, and that I wanted to not make those same mistakes in the future.. basically..  I'm not under his roof at all, and have been out of the house since I moved away for college.  I am married, and live a considerable distance away. I'm 34.  

 

Gosh, I'm so sorry that you had to split with someone you grew to love.  I hope by "lost" you do not mean she experienced harm, but just that you had to go your separate ways.  But in one respect, what happened was the most healthy thing that could have happened for you both. Thank you so much for the reply. 

*threatened. He threatened you, as a reminder of the carried-out violence, to bring about the painful flood of emotions from when he did actually follow through with the threats, and control you. This is how abusers control their victims in every moment, and not just the moments when they are being violent. Just wanted to clarify that this was not a "fake-out" as implied by your word choice. 

 

I'm sure you'll get some good advice here, and you've heard a lot of what I have to say already. But I just want to emphasize that therapy would probably be very beneficial for you. I wish you the best.

 

Yeah, you're totally right. I used the word "feigned," but faking it would only work if he had struck me hard enough to ensure I had those memories.  It's sadistic.  Period. Dis. Gust. Ing.    Thank you for pointing that out. 

[A4E]

I get the impression that your father might be of the opinion that he is always right, Is this the case?

 

Is he also blaming others for situations that generally arise from himself? Did he ever admit fault?

[ShaneInTX]

I get the impression that your father might be of the opinion that he is always right, Is this the case?

 

Is he also blaming others for situations that generally arise from himself? Did he ever admit fault?

Ding Ding Ding!  Johnny, tell 'em what they've won!   He's either always right, or "that's just the way the universe works."  In other words, he's always right.  AbsoLUTELY no accountability for his own actions and their effect on others.  Ever. It's YOUR problem that you feel that way not MY problem..  which is exactly what he said.  Check it out, and I quote:

 

"Sorry that it's come to this, but it just has, To my knowledge you haven't done the one thing I think might help you the most is go through an anger management class.  Yes, I'm guilty to some degree of some of the things you accuse me of, but am nowhere near the villain you portray me to be.  I thinkYOU have a problem, son, and I think YOU need to look into it."

 

That was AFTER he said that he was going to wait on me with a loaded 357.  Reee. Dic. U. Lous. 

[A4E]

 He's either always right, or "that's just the way the universe works."  In other words, he's always right.  AbsoLUTELY no accountability for his own actions and their effect on others.  Ever. It's YOUR problem that you feel that way not MY problem..

Does he by any chance also, when cornered in one topic, usually bring up another topic barely related, just to be able to throw the ball back in your face. To make you the villain?

 

And on and on to the next barely related topic, to attack you again, after you deflected the last one, making it into a desperate endless struggle to avoid any liability?

 

This might be too advanced for an alcoholic though, but I am curious.

[ShaneInTX]

The typical thing is speaking in terms of the universe, this is just the way things are type of view. He is king of the deflection, king of the rant to divert attention. That is the way he knows best to deal with problems. Remove attention and think / do something different. After that, if one persists, he blows up with verbal aggression followed by intellectual or emotional abandonment.

[A4E]

Generally everything I said to my father would be used against me. Never any meaningful or productive conversations. Thankfully I learned pretty early that it is not a person worth trying to relate to.

 

Somewhat recently I brought up the issue of him poisoning the dinner table almost every day in the home. which amounts to something like 6500 days. He said he did not remember anything like that, and also trying to deny my experience of those days. And yes it was a test and he failed miserably.

[DaVinci]

Ding Ding Ding!  Johnny, tell 'em what they've won!   He's either always right, or "that's just the way the universe works."  In other words, he's always right.  AbsoLUTELY no accountability for his own actions and their effect on others.  Ever. It's YOUR problem that you feel that way not MY problem..  which is exactly what he said.  Check it out, and I quote:

 

"Sorry that it's come to this, but it just has, To my knowledge you haven't done the one thing I think might help you the most is go through an anger management class.  Yes, I'm guilty to some degree of some of the things you accuse me of, but am nowhere near the villain you portray me to be.  I thinkYOU have a problem, son, and I think YOU need to look into it."

 

That was AFTER he said that he was going to wait on me with a loaded 357.  Reee. Dic. U. Lous. 

 

That quote is something your dad said to you? 1.) it actually sounds like something my dad would have said. For that I'm sorry. 2.) It strikes me as being very manipulative. He admits that some of the things you are accusing him of might be true, and then proceeds to tell you that you have a problem with yourself that needs to be fixed. For comparison look at the statement "you're a piece of crap" vs. "I've done some bad things, but you're a piece of crap. The first statement is clearly an insult. The second is an insult qualified with some moral positioning made to make the person talking and the target of the insult more ambiguous in relation to each other. In other words if you're both on the "bad side" of the spectrum it's much harder for you to point out the things that were done to you because you're both on this bad side of the line together. Like you both agreed to rob a bank together and are now arguing about who did what to who. Except in your case it would be your dad robbed a bank when you were a child and now that you have the ability to call him on getting you involved in such a horrible thing he is going to try and manipulate you into believing you some how agreed to everything that happened and went along with it when you really didn't have a choice.