Trying to understand what I'm doing to find a good relationship.

[MAttinoto]

Hello, my name is Michael. This is my very first forum post, so I hope I'm at least somewhat clear with what I say and don't get too caught up with my rambling. I'm pretty open-minded with discussions and I don't want to come off too vague if I fail to elaborate on anything. I come from a history of no relationships, and no intimacy with women. I just want to be honest and show how this is a problem and how it has affected me. I'm trying to understand what I should be saying or questioning when I first talk/meet with a woman. I get thought trapped in thinking that I ask too many questions, or I'm being too personal, which I feel may lead to the other thinking I'm too emotional or obsessive. I feel that maybe I am obsessing or over-thinking things and that tends to make me blank out and not know what to say next. I get frustrated at times because I notice myself falling in the same pattern and wanting to care with what I say, and I feel I may come off too kind or too willing to help out. I'll usually say things like "have a nice day", or "how are you today", and I usually ask about any interests or goals they have. I try to be open and give my opinions or thoughts about things and try not to talk too much while doing so, but I feel like I'm letting on too much.I am not so talkative and usually a little nervous when meeting new people, especially women, but I feel that I can keep good conversation going when given the right circumstances. I feel that my personality may be non-alluring or somewhat dull, but I can say that I do have a big sense of humor and usually laugh a decent amount. I appreciate anyone's ideas and comments on this and I hope you've found this somewhat understandable, and maybe even relatable. 

[TheAuger]

It's a good question, for sure.  I've had some experience and success in this area.  If you're wanting to approach women in public, then it's good to have a goal -- have a 5 minute plan to chat them up and get their contact info.  There are all sorts of cheesy pickup lines -- don't use them -- women will thank you for sparing them the bullshit.  It's best just to be completely honest and straightforward.  This is the part that's disconcerting and uncomfortable for some men, I've noticed.

 

So, for practice, just try approaching random people in public and striking up an upbeat conversation about something in your immediate environment.  It's important to keep the conversation moving, and for some people this takes practice.  Keep sustained eye contact.  See if you can crack a joke, or compliment them in some way, and then know how to close and go about your business.

 

Then, when you spot a woman that catches your fancy, just approach them in the same friendly, upbeat way.  Non verbals are key.  So, if you've made eye contact with them, that's a good sign.

 

The best opener, I've found, is a direct approach.  Something like, "Hey, I noticed ___x___ about you, and I think you're absolutely gorgeous.  What's your name?"  This will flatter them and demonstrate a certain confidence level on your part.  But what you're really trying to do is gauge their interest level.  So if they give their name and then ask yours -- that's a really good sign -- their interest level is high because they asked for your name.  If they don't ask your name, it's still OK -- they maybe shy, in which case you'll have to work a little harder.

 

Remember the goal here.  Get them to a point where they're comfortable giving you their contact info.  It's good to practice asking questions that don't have one word/yesno answers.

 

At a key moment in the convo, you'll just have to say something like, "Well I wish we could chat more -- I'm meeting some friends and I have to run -- can you give me your phone number and we can go ___(something funny/semi absurd)___ sometime?"

 

 

It's really that easy.  Women know what you're after.  If they're interested, they're going to notice the gesture and be flattered by it and help you through nervousness/awkwardness.  

 

A key hangup is if she's already dating someone else or has a boyfriend (or is already married...!)...The best thing to do in this circumstance is to say interestedly, without missing a beat or showing let down, "Oh, what's it like being in the perfect relationship?".  Just listen to their mealy mouthing for a few seconds and say, "well I'm pleased to have met you, have a good day!"  Then walk away confidently.

 

Keep in mind what most women are looking for -- someone who is happy, upbeat, confident.  If you're not that way naturally -- work on it -- it's a skill.  Use that nervousness as energy.

 

If you strike out -- there are always more fish in the sea.  I've had literally hundreds of failures!  You're a good looking guy -- if you ask a thousand women, a few hundred are bound to say yes!

 

The key is to have a goal, practice, control the flow and duration of the conversation.  Just KNOW that YOU have something GREAT to offer THEM!

[Frederik]

If you want to have enjoyable relationships with others, you have to have an enjoyable relationship with yourself first. That’s the basic gist of how I see it.

 

So any time you invest into introspection of any kind, like journaling, talking to yourself, therapy, analyzing dreams, talking honestly with people who have been with you for long, etc., is time well invested and will help you in growing the confidence you need in order to feel more at peace in a conversation of any type.

 

Also, welcome to the boards!

[MaceyUK]

Echo the fox. Set about making yourself great. Be a great employee, a great friend do some interesting stuff, travel, volunteer, go on an adventure, walk the Appalachian trail. Enjoy the hell out of your life and make that your focus, people will gravitate towards you and some of them will be women.

 Trying too hard to get a woman will make you too grateful to have anyone at all in your life and you'll likely be pushed around in a relationship. Self worth will get you a woman who feels positive about you and you'll feel that you deserve to be with her. 

[zoomharp]

You sound like a great guy! 

 

Being happily married over 25 years, I always wonder where young couples meet each other these days. I met my husband while we were both pursuing a common hobby (we played in a band together). The first thing I noticed in him was the high quality of his talent and the joy he had. Another guy in the band (creep) told me negative things about my husband before I even met him, but I saw pretty quick that it was b.s.  So, do something fun and do it well!  

 

I never went on dates with men I did not know (i.e. men I met at a party or who tried to pick me up when I was at work). I even told one guy, "I don't go on dates with men I don't know," and he was so shocked. "How on earth do you ever meet anybody?" he said. I replied, "I have an active life and I meet other active people." A good woman will be attracted to the value in you first, and all that wonderful kindness you have to offer will be icing on the cake. 

 

Although there are lots more single women than men around, there are far more single liberty-minded men than women I think. At least that's my observation.  I had been married 2 years before my husband succeeded (slowly, patiently, lovingly) in drawing me to libertarian thinking. (And I returned the favor by leading him to atheism.) So I guess I'm advising that you look for a good woman who adores you and isn't afraid to discuss hard topics. 

 

I hope this is helpful to you. We who love liberty need more families on board.  Cheers.

[MAttinoto]

Thank you all so much for the support, I greatly appreciate it and I'm glad to see such welcoming empathy   I have struggled with my confidence a lot and I find it difficult to crack a joke or make lighter humor because I fear that I may not make sense or may not find it funny. I think it's also difficult in the instance that if I do get a genuine response and see the other person taking interest in me that I tend to get nervous because I feel expected to be funny or intelligent in my next response to keep them interested. Eye contact is not my strongest skill, and I'm sure that is in most cases misleading when conversing with women. I talk a lot with my close family and I've gained a lot of self knowledge with our discussions and I've realized that I do worry a lot about coming off awkward or dumb. I've also realized that this comes from the models I was given growing up with my parents, as I was alone most of time and had to find something to preoccupy myself, which was usually video games. When I realized how much time I spent on them and not socializing with others as much throughout many days, I knew it was a problem and I identified it and started making some progress with being more open with other people. Still a big work in progress, but I can see a lot of the progress I have made and I don't want to stop pushing forth. I haven't written much and have only journaled a few times, but I do see that I can get my thoughts out a lot easier than trying to say them and I think that'll be a good start to getting my thoughts gathered and put in to perspective. I am trying an online dating site currently and I feel that it is easier to write and share my thoughts through messaging on there. I'm going to set some goals and start journaling and see where it leads me. I'll keep working on my discovery in self knowledge and confidence, and also my self worthiness. Thank you all again for sharing your feedback and giving me positive reinforcement, I hope you all are doing well in your journeys as well!

[Kevin Beal]

Something that made me feel a lot more relaxed was a change in perspective. Instead of meeting women, I looked at it like I was just meeting people, in general. That way, it's not like there's a right or wrong way to do it and I just talk about what I like to talk about generally.

 

Talking to women, it seems like they are attracted to guys who:

• are just being themselves
• feel comfortable in their own skin
• are very approachable
• and have a strong, independent sense of what they want out of life

That kind of stuff you can communicate by just talking to anybody. No need for pick-up artistry or game.

 

People make it overly complicated because most people aren't even sure what they want out of a relationship. A lot of your tastes are developed in relationship to partners who you admire.

 

Job interviewing is a common analogy, and one aspect of job interviews people often forget about is that you don't need to be wholly competent before landing the job; you just need to be basically competent and motivated to work hard and learn. Most of what you learn is on-the-job.

 

Dating, as with most important things looks way more daunting at the outset, and as you keep at it, working your way through frustrations, you look back later and think "why did I think it was so daunting?"

[zoomharp]

Let us know how it goes if you feel like it! 

 

And if I may add one more thought... You seem to be focused on how you act and on self-examination. I want to encourage you to focus equally on who you are -- not your innate personality, which is obviously very nice but all the activities and interests that make up your life: what you do at/for work, but also how you spend your downtime, such as learning a language or an instrument, taking up a sport, reading a lot of good books, volunteering at an animal shelter --or whatever! Whomever you eventually meet and fall in love with should adore you, and you her. I say "adore," because when problems arise (which they will!) no couple can respectfully and lovingly negotiate solutions unless they treasure their mate and are willing to endure huge discomfort/humility/sacrifice to preserve the relationship. As beneficial as talking and journaling may be for you personally, what does that level of self-awareness offer a potential mate? In my opinion, very little unless it goes hand in hand with a fascinating, joyful, and intellectually stimulating person. 

 

Remember James Taggart in Atlas Shrugged, and how he couldn't understand why Cherryl couldn't just love him for being him?  I'm not saying you are like that at all!  But you are going to be making changes (I assume) and you can move either direction on that continuum at one end of which is James Taggert, and the other end is your best self, full of value and joy and life. 

 

Thank you so much for listening. I truly hope this helps and that you feel encouraged. 

[Frederik]

As beneficial as talking and journaling may be for you personally, what does that level of self-awareness offer a potential mate? In my opinion, very little unless it goes hand in hand with a fascinating, joyful, and intellectually stimulating person.

 

Hey, I really appreciate your input and I find it fascinating that you seem to have come back to the forum. It looks like you have discovered FDR pretty much as it started? Lucky you!

 

What you write makes some sense to me; I think I know where you are coming from. On the other hand, I found the quoted phrase a bit puzzling.

 

I think it’s quite obvious that that the task of introspection itself does not offer much to the mate directly, as it is a very personal thing. But I think it would be very hard to argue that introspection and the resulting raised self-awareness is not absolutely crucial for happiness and loving relationships.

 

Are you a long-time listener? Then I am sure you have heard Stef talk about the ’Selfish Phase’, which is basically a phase of healing through introspection. I would say everybody who wants to become truly happy has stuff to work out, and for that you need time to heal. Stef was in therapy for four years, and we wouldn’t be able sharing our thoughts here if he hadn’t gone through that phase.

 

As far as I can tell, I would say that the thread opener still has a lot to work out considering his struggle with self-esteem. Doing all sorts of stuff is great of course, but he needs self-knowledge for that, too, anyway, in order to find out what he really loves doing.

 

I would say that healing comes first, and with it a naturally gradually increasing desire to go out into the world and do stuff, and connect to people.

 

Does that make sense to you?

[regevdl]

Nice to meet you and thank you for your trust in sharing your innermost feelings and possibly insecurities.  I hope my woman's perspective might guide you in some positive direction. 

 

I've been happily married for almost 14 years.  That still seems crazy to me!  lol  Often new couples or singles 'admire' my and my hubby's relationship even though it hasnn't been perfect and is always a work in progress. 

 

I was going to say...make her laugh and then you stated that you have a great sense of humor.  Don't be afraid to bring up important topics and serious topics...it will weed out the bubble-gum girls.  lol

 

But since you are starting from a fresh slate from my understanding is sort of have a draft 'checklist' of what you are looking for.  being open that you can add and delete from the list but from a virtue standpoint...stay disciplined in your standards and the other stuff can fluctuate.  

 

I found my hubby after too many FAILED relationships when I had had enough and started re-evaluating my standards and learning something that i DIDN'T want from each. lol  process of elimination is a slow and painful way to find your mate!  rofl.

 

but...on the same note, practice makes perfect.  So just ...fake it to make it.  I know.... mingle, hone in, don't use pick up lines...quality girls will pick up on that and it will repel them. 

 

But mingle and you will get better.  If it's with work companions or hobby companions, just mingle.  Remember that EVERYONE is just as insecure as you and running their own hurdles so keep that in the back of your mind to hopefully calm your anxieties.  The more you mingle without expectation of meeting 'the hole in one'...ok that didn't come off well.  lol of...meeting the woman of your dreams on the first try.. better...

 

Just get some practice in.  

 

You will have to step outside of your comfort zone and be honest with the people around you.  I always am aware of my weaknesses and sort of humorously and/or seriously let those around me know that is what I am experiencing.  I fake it to make it.  Meaning.... I DON'T want them to know my insecurities but sort of pre-emptively exposing them on MY terms is wht empowers me and then earns their trust/respect and often motivates them to open up to me.  I have had people tell me 'oh...you can do anything...you are so talented, bla bla bla"  I firmly tell them...but I care enough about the quality I produce to tell you when I don't feel confident in completing x task.... so trust me on that.  

 

And they do.  now that is an example in a work or community situtation but it serves in romantic relationships too.  

 

My best advice is be the BEST you can be (honest, open, exposed, true to yourself) from the beginning and the MOMENT someone shows you they will exploit that....drop them.  I don't care HOW hot or horny they are....drop them and DON'T turn back....don't make it a long goodbye.....just drop them.

 

best of luck and practice!

[zoomharp]

Hi Fred Black Fox! Thank you for your welcoming words. Yes, I was "gone" for a while from the forums, raising and home-schooling an awesome child who is now in college studying engineering. 

 

Your post makes lots of sense, and I am sorry if I sounded like I was denigrating self-examination. My advice was based on my belief that our friend MAttinoto was seeking more concrete suggestions to get a relationship going, rather than to get support with personal growth and healing. Of course, I support both!     But I'm worried for him because the only activity in his life that he mentions is video games. Yes, maybe there is a ton more and it's just none of our business -- I'm fine with that. lol  Just trying to help. One woman's perspective. Cheers.

[Susana]

Not sure about which exact words to start the conversations, other than perhaps joining groups such as sports group meetups to meet healthy and active people but below are a few very important questions to get into the conversation. 

 

"What was your childhood like and your parents relationship with each other and with you?

What are your long term goals and future plans? do you want to have children? when and how many? What are important parenting strategies for you? (type of parenting, type of school public vrs private vrs homeschool, stay at home mother or working mother)

[fractional slacker]

Slightly off topic, but I thought internet dating changed how kids meet these days.  Meeting online practically eliminates approach anxiety for both parties.
Is it possible women are less interested or unsure how to handle being approached?