Testosterone deficiency- a growing epidemic?

[castus]

Greetings,

 

Recently I've had some unfortunate symptoms occur for over a few years that are quite irritating but not entirely life altering (still able to soldier on). Some of which include insomnia, brain fog, fatigue, even slight bouts of depression/anxiety. After some investigation on and off on the interwebs, I'm left conclude to go in and check my testosterone levels with an anti aging doc as well as run it by my general doctor. The reason that I'm left looking at this now, is that looking at the flow chart I've gone through, it seems to be a logical course to rule out (unless my panels return with Heman levels of testosterone - which I'm doubtful).

 

What I did not come to realize is just how much of sub culture there is around steroids and testosterone therapy...and how much of an overall lifestyle increase some added testosterone can do. There are some that describe it as (after a few weeks) coming out of a fog. Some describe it as puberty 2.0 with all the vigor, in more ways than one that brings.

 

It's quite a life changing therapy, but one not for the feint of heart, as it involves a variety of considerations such as: weekly, if not bi weekly injections (if done correctly), along with other medications (anti estrogen, hcg - which helps with weigh and testicle shrinkage). Then you have to do blood panels occasionally. After dealing with my symptoms, I'd rather pursue the hormone fix than the neuro chemical path (that just scares me more).

 

I'm 31. and though it seems a bit young for me to looking at this therapy, I'm beginning to question if isn't really a good thing for many ~30+ up males, especially for developed countries. Consider America: we've got tons of office jobs, tons of entertainment, that perpetuate lifestyles counter to the necessary strife our bodies actually need. I work in the IT sector, where I'm sitting at multiple access PCs, monitoring ~10 screens. When I cover overtime, that becomes quite a lot of butt time overall, hence is why I've returned to the Gym after many years - I almost mentally need the counter balance. However, it just isn't enough it seems for my well bing. I still have issues with sleep, particularly if its a hard workout (just another reason to go check my T). I may be an exception, but maybe not.

 

So, going back to the history/science of steroid/testosterone therapy, I was led to a documentary called Bigger, Stronger, Faster. You can watch on youtube for free but the quality sucks. That film covers over so many areas that it left a sour taste in my mouth for medical professionals, particularly the government ones. It seems that there was, and even currently, so many fallacies revolved around steroid/T use that the media, along with politicians looking to peacock their record, championed ways to ban steroids. It was really unethical as even other medical professionals before congress did not want to classify steroids as a controlled substance, however, congress instead listened to the ideologue (which there was no burden of proof he provided behind his claims). Thus was added one more thing to the 'war on drugs'. This also just added another reason why I hate the FDA.

 

There seems to be so many misconceptions around T therapy and steroid use, I'm left wondering it isn't somewhat intentional. The medicinal benefits are huge. I wonder how much of the pharmaceutical scene would be changed if something so simple as more T could potentially nullify the need of other chemicals - how big of a change would it entail? Even going a bit further (though a bit of a conspiracy theory), would a government purposely control higher levels of T as to make a more subservient people to control? Heh I know that one is a bit out there, but, it is quite a prospect to think on imo.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wuzzums]

I too am planning on getting steroid treatment after getting old, however 31 seems way too young to start.

 

And regarding all the taboo around steroid use, I'm almost 100% it's all bullshit. Why? Because female hormone pills have been an over the counter medicine since its invention and nobody cares. In fact so was testosterone. Why that all changed exactly I cannot say.

[Boss]

Yea I do believe steroids get a bad rep due to professional sports banning them but I would only use it if needed. Even you mention some of the factors 
"It's quite a life changing therapy, but one not for the feint of heart, as it involves a variety of considerations such as: weekly, if not bi weekly injections (if done correctly), along with other medications (anti estrogen, hcg - which helps with weigh and testicle shrinkage). "
From my research and experience of talking to people who gone through with it, There are many risk involved but if planned and monitored I am sure it can be safe. 

If your doctor recommends it and can monitor your situation, I see no issue going with it.

I personally would try natural methods like changing diet, exercising and getting enough sleep before going through with it.

I wish you luck on this, if possible let us know how it goes

[AccuTron]

"insomnia, brain fog, fatigue, even slight bouts of depression/anxiety"

 

plus

 

"I'm sitting at multiple access PCs, monitoring ~10 screens. When I cover overtime, that becomes quite a lot of butt time"

 

 

I see 2+2.

 

Castus, it sounds like your job is wearing you out, nothing to do with hormones.  I'd be cautious about testing from an "anti-aging" doc; I wonder how accurate or info complete that would be.  Another case of "Bucks For Beliefs"?  You are already correctly suspicious of modern medicine in general.  Anti-aging sounds like buzz words; why not just "be healthy"?  I don't know the guy or gal, but my inner scam alert is itching.

 

(Wuzzums, you are comparing apples and oranges; the two hormone sets are not the same.  I am not an expert in the field, yet I never heard of a female going into violent rages from taking hormones.)

 

I'm wondering if you are really experiencing mistaken psychological distress at not being manly enough, or some such phrasing, a common and almost required condition these days.  (See about one quarter of all forum posts about that!)

 

Trying for respectful humor here:  You remind me of a government program -- forget the obvious likely sources of a problem, pick something else to point at, set up a program which will cause endless cash flow and some sort of dependency.  I don't know your specifics of course, but this is my reaction.

[MaceyUK]

I have always suspected that the actors who go from skinny to statuesque have just done a steroid cycle. It's almost impossible to experience those kind of gains any other way. If you are very knowledgeable I'm sure it's safe as any other drug. Testosterone injections will mean that your testes will produce less..why would they keep it up if they don't have to..welfare for bollocks. My worry would be that they wouldn't be able to get back in the game if you stopped injecting.

[castus]

"insomnia, brain fog, fatigue, even slight bouts of depression/anxiety"

 

plus

 

"I'm sitting at multiple access PCs, monitoring ~10 screens. When I cover overtime, that becomes quite a lot of butt time"

 

 

I see 2+2.

 

Castus, it sounds like your job is wearing you out, nothing to do with hormones.  I'd be cautious about testing from an "anti-aging" doc; I wonder how accurate or info complete that would be.  Another case of "Bucks For Beliefs"?  You are already correctly suspicious of modern medicine in general.  Anti-aging sounds like buzz words; why not just "be healthy"?  I don't know the guy or gal, but my inner scam alert is itching.

 

(Wuzzums, you are comparing apples and oranges; the two hormone sets are not the same.  I am not an expert in the field, yet I never heard of a female going into violent rages from taking hormones.   From having native hormones, sure, but not added.  )

 

I'm wondering if you are really experiencing mistaken psychological distress at not being manly enough, or some such phrasing, a common and almost required condition these days.  (See about one quarter of all forum posts about that!)

 

Trying for respectful humor here:  You remind me of a government program -- forget the obvious likely sources of a problem, pick something else to point at, set up a program which will cause endless cash flow and some sort of dependency.  I don't know your specifics of course, but this is my reaction.

 

Well, I didn't really feel like elaborating on all of my symptoms, especially to strangers. ;P That and it did occur to me, after looking at some of the discussion boards, that some people may just be convincing themselves possibly a little too much.

 

To go a little more about some health issues I have: I have nontoxic multidodular goitres (about a dozen? lost count). While these were alarming at first, especially when they were growing, they are now just something to be monitored. While this may not have direct correlation to Test hormones (don't know) I wonder if this issue isn't somewhat contributing to fatigue, or, otherwise somehow related and thus causing something like low T. I'm no doctor, so Test therapy will be brought up to my general physician and endo - as to how it relates to my situation.

 

Furthermore, experimenting over a few years, I've noticed a decline in energy even outside of work. Even when I do work, I'm working 3-4 days and off the rest of the week (standard work week). Those days off, and even on vacation time (just finished 3 weeks off a few weeks ago) I still had a silly level of fatigue and etc.

 

I'm not shy to physical labor either, as even if I'm busting my balls working building something, my sleep sucks. Even when I do sleep for a fair amount of time, I still feel 'meh'. Heck I just finished benching today (at 295 lbs currently), but my recovery kinda sucks (in the gym and outside of it). Sometimes my tank runs out fast which is quite a bewildering thing - especially when you're eating/training well.

As an aside - Don't mistake either that strength gains means high/normal T, as I have read about recently someone with low T but a great physique. Even some on a forum have a lower range of T (still in normal range) and still gain. So after reading that, it just reinforces the notion that lower T is something a bit subjective to the individual. You may have a normal T, but still feel like crap, and still gain. The doc also confirmed this.

 

There is more I could bring up, but I don't think it should matter at this point. I definitely understand your position (as I'm usually a contrarian - finding the holes in peoples thoughts), especially in this age of 'throw money at the problem'. However, from my standpoint, I'm done trying natural methods to fix my problem and now am resorting to something that seems to have a sure benefit/resolution. The price to pay over T therapy in my position seems worth it - if it comes to it.

 

Perhaps my T levels will be fine, and something else is amiss. Maybe the past 6 months (which have really sucked) was just a season my body will heal through. Maybe not. Right now, all I know is T therapy may be put on the table and I have mixed feeling about committing to it if so. On one hand, I have improved vitality with the cost of injections on the butt and possible cardiovascular issues or, a life that while manageable, is still a life that is significantly less optimal. Sure I could function, but it could be... a progressively meager existence. This particularly sucks when you have young kids to keep up with :/

 

 

This is a choice many many men are looking at, and I think will grow as time goes on about the health benefits higher T can yield. I wonder if this is one of the few issues that throwing money at, may generally help men better than the other supposed cures pharmaceuticals offer.

[wdiaz03]

Sorry to hear about your situation.

 

I'm for the natural way myself but to each their own. I don't trust foreign substances in a complex system like a human body. too many things can go out of wack. 

To me this seems like the easy way out, not unlike liposuction for reducing fat etc. Too many people take the easy road and they find themselves "finding their destiny on the road they take to avoid it"

I too have a desk job. but that has not stop me from staying active.  Playing sports, biking, etc every chance I get. (Yes that means no time for TV. so what. I go to the gym on my lunch break (yes that means no socializing with coworkers or dining out with them. You didn;t mention your diet, thats another area that I take ownership for. SO I'm missing out on a lot of junk food, oh well.

 

So to conclude. "That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly". - Thomas Paine

 

Best of luck

My two cents. 

[castus]

Well, the test came back very low... at 165  TT :/ Guess I'll be going through the treatment and I guess there's some satisfaction in knowing what's been causing many of my problems.

[wdiaz03]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't that be treating the symptoms instead of the cause? Is this what your doctor recommended?

What is the prognosis in this case? will you produce a normal amount of hormones after the treatment or will you be on this treatment for life?

 

Thanks in advance and I wish you he best.

[SoCaliGirl]

When I started questioning if I was trans or not I got myself into therapy and had my hormone levels checked, all normal unfortunately, would have been an easier fix than transition lol ><

 

From what little I know on the topic of endocrinology as it relates to your age and circumstance; you do seem quite young, have you had your vitamin D &  b12 levels checked?

What is your daily diet/exercise details?

[castus]

When I started questioning if I was trans or not I got myself into therapy and had my hormone levels checked, all normal unfortunately, would have been an easier fix than transition lol ><

 

From what little I know on the topic of endocrinology as it relates to your age and circumstance; you do seem quite young, have you had your vitamin D &  b12 levels checked?

What is your daily diet/exercise details?

 

Hmmmmm... please understand, that since you mentioned you were trans, I feel it also necessary to mention this (with courtesy):

 

I'm guessing with the feelings you had, you were attempting to rule out physiological abnormalities before attempting to reduce the feelings/thoughts/desire felt to a matter of the mind, thus a more valid course?

And... if this were so, the new identity you were entertaining, or fix, was then simply reasoned as preference?

What if it isn't?

What if there was a standard held evident in nature, and possibly even understood from nature's God?

 

Truly, I firmly believe things to be held self-evident in relation to things in nature thus preferential remodeling of the body that goes outside of optimization or correction is counter to the essence of living effectively.

 

If you are an atheist, it would be particularly contrary that you would choose to be a trans, as it is counter to the pragmatic essence of atheism; the basic rule of survival of a species - the cultural & reproductive efficiency it demands. If a theist, it would logically be counter to the design intended, and counter to all of the supporting arguments Gods nature sits on. If it is from a view that would make this relative, or subjective, then its own meaning is counter to the claim attempting to justify / stand on - thus incoherent...

 

This is just my .02 cents for you. I imagine you get berated a lot for this, so please have patience. If there is anything I'd want you to really consider, it is that there is a God, who said who you are and not simply who you think you are,  who came down in flesh and who meets you where you are, and understands you completely. He thought of you before the world was, and knows the course before you. He is both the Concept and Flesh - a person, who relates to you as both Lord and friend. No matter what the world may think of you, that He is opposition of the world, and the way the world works. That if you wish for communion with Him, all it takes is the recognition how far you fall short, in sin, in all things without Him. That by this repentance, you may draw near to Him, and those who follow him, as a family. If at all in the future you find yourself down a dark path, then talk to him, who is Jesus Christ, open his story (the bible) and learn from Him. Like any great teacher, there is so much to learn, and he makes it pretty simple and has friends to help you.

 

_________

 

Now, as far as my vitamin levels, diet and exercise goes: these I reckon are fairly optimal, though I should eat more veggies and do a little more cardio I mainly weight lift for exercise and eat my wife's cooking (which is usually pretty healthy).

[Filip S]

hey Castus,

 

Have you considered talk therapy about in regards to your anxiety and depression? Speaking from personal experience, I went in for therapy and it did wonders for my confidence, self-esteem, and self-worth. I broke up with my girlfriend after realizing I had a toxic relationship - though the therapy was tough, I felt loads better! 

[castus]

hey Castus,

 

Have you considered talk therapy about in regards to your anxiety and depression? Speaking from personal experience, I went in for therapy and it did wonders for my confidence, self-esteem, and self-worth. I broke up with my girlfriend after realizing I had a toxic relationship - though the therapy was tough, I felt loads better! 

 

Nah Thanks for the advice though. Sometimes the anxiety feels warranted (job, etc). The other times, I feel its something more physiological.

[BD91]

Just posting this for reference, I'm still trying to find sources for all the information, but a quick google search reveals many of the points to be valid.

 

[AccuTron]

Just posting this for reference, I'm still trying to find sources for all the information, but a quick google search reveals many of the points to be valid.

 

Some eyebrow raisers, including avoiding legumes??  I like sunflower kernels, will look into it...anyone already know of anything?  A number of other things I agreed with.  

 

I use body wash and shampoo, usually the inexpensive lines at Safeway.  I have no reason to think I'm hormonally compromised, good health overall.  Those things rinse off pretty quickly, and I wonder how trivial it might be....except that...some years ago, maybe a dozen, I read a story in Science News.  

 

There was a doctor, S. Florida I think, who had a woman bring in her son of about age 12, who was growing breasts, whatever that word is.  According to the article, once male breasts have developed, if the cause stops, the breasts will remain as is.  That was the always expected result.

 

The doctor asked the mother about exposures to various things.  One thing caught his attention, either because of specific knowledge, or a hunch, or some clue.  The boy was being daily body rubbed by his mother with lavender oil.  (Sounds like another forum thread about that.)

 

The doctor suggested ceasing that, and to the great surprise of all, the breasts actually shrunk.  Ever since I read that, I am wary of lavender oil.  So I take the other suggestions of the article with a bit more curiosity than if I hadn't read that Science News report.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Just posting this for reference, I'm still trying to find sources for all the information, but a quick google search reveals many of the points to be valid.

 

 

This is interesting. I'm guessing you don't know the author?

Nah Thanks for the advice though. Sometimes the anxiety feels warranted (job, etc). The other times, I feel its something more physiological.

 

Do you think therapy doesn't lead to physiological changes by altering your way of living? Do you think insomnia, depression, anxiety, all do not have physiological effects whatsoever? Spoiler alert: they do. One might be your low testosterone. I have no idea, but that's one theory, that your low testosterone is a symptom of these things or is correlated with them, but is not actually causing them. I also know after having children testosterone lowers naturally, but I'm not sure if that accounts for your age group too.

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there is research presented on the show about the physiological and psychological benefits of psychotherapy. Check out the Bomb in the Brain and The Benefits of Therapy for more on this . Along with exercise, the research provides evidence that it is the strongest deterrent of psychological dysfunction, which my argument is, it must show up in the body. Psychology is not just about "thoughts" but about attention to traumatic or unhealthy cycles of behavior that haven't been processed and are therefore being repeated without consideration of an alternative way of living. Therapy, by breaking those sorts of cycles, will have physiological impacts, because if you can effect depression you can effect sleep cycles, and if you can effect sleep cycles you can effect grogginess and paranoia, potentially at least. What I'm saying is therapy can relieve those symptoms, and that can cause other lifestyle changes, all of which can have a positive physiological effect.

[castus]

This is interesting. I'm guessing you don't know the author?

 

 

Do you think therapy doesn't lead to physiological changes by altering your way of living? Do you think insomnia, depression, anxiety, all do not have physiological effects whatsoever? Spoiler alert: they do. One might be your low testosterone. I have no idea, but that's one theory, that your low testosterone is a symptom of these things or is correlated with them, but is not actually causing them. I also know after having children testosterone lowers naturally, but I'm not sure if that accounts for your age group too.

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there is research presented on the show about the physiological and psychological benefits of psychotherapy. Check out the Bomb in the Brain and The Benefits of Therapy for more on this . Along with exercise, the research provides evidence that it is the strongest deterrent of psychological dysfunction, which my argument is, it must show up in the body. Psychology is not just about "thoughts" but about attention to traumatic or unhealthy cycles of behavior that haven't been processed and are therefore being repeated without consideration of an alternative way of living. Therapy, by breaking those sorts of cycles, will have physiological impacts, because if you can effect depression you can effect sleep cycles, and if you can effect sleep cycles you can effect grogginess and paranoia, potentially at least. What I'm saying is therapy can relieve those symptoms, and that can cause other lifestyle changes, all of which can have a positive physiological effect.

I think I understand where you are coming from in regards to therapy. However, I know your point is not the case for me.

 

I've almost had a similar suggestion (in essence) but from a former holy roller. He was alluding that my problem was from disobeying God. Both suggestions were/are jumping from a platform blindly. I'm sure there are a ton more suggestions to improve t levels directly or indirectly. At the scale I'd need for these improvements, I doubt it would be enough. It would be like throwing a dart in the dark, and spending a long time doing so.

 

The human body decays. It can be just as simple as that sometimes.

 

As far as the 'school' of psychotherapy goes, I have more reservation for that group than I would the inquisition of long ago. To claim personal happiness as the drivING purpose of life, is a truth statement, not a science.

 

As a Christian, I recognize that life isn't about being happy with creature comforts or self-empowerment, but I'm not so daft to miss the profit of optimizing the body - to better serve for example (like with legit medicine).

[BD91]

https://vimeo.com/15346778