jpc Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Just a few thoughts on the Orlando shooting and Stefan's coverage. In particular, Stefan and Mike Chernovich spent some time wondering about the credibility of being able to kill 50 people. My own first thought was that this was rather efficient. But, in hindsight -- having had 3 hours and having gained forced entry -- its not surpirsing at all. Here are some points I think above-linked video neglects to consider: 1) The floor was packed. That means a single bullet can pierce through a number of people at once. 2) The interior (you can see that from other videos) of the club mainly consists of hard furniture and floorings. That means a bullet may bounce off a few times before it comes to rest. 3) Shrapnel. 4) It sounds like the attacker has gained forced entry. 5) He might have had an accomplice (I think this was something Stefan and Mike suggested as well). 6) Endurance and psychological stamina. S&M argued that it was odd how the attacker could sustain the effort especially the stress and carnage. I get that point, but, this dude was a hard-core fundamentalist (he is doing a great deed and pleases allah isnt he?) so that might take the edge off. There is potential drug usage. He is from Afghanistan and *might have visited and been confronted with similar actions before. At least he might have got the cultural role models in place to deal with this sort of thing better than the average western liberal. In his home country similar levels of violence are not uncommon, so if you import these people why would the American air and water turn them into something else (even if second generation) ? As an additional point I would also argue that if someone in the crowd would have had a gun this could have been prevented. Similar with the Paris shooting where the attackers had assault rifles as well.
villagewisdom Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Watched this last night. Very insightful. And I too thought of the length of time and mass of people as contributing factors. There are stories of crowds stuffing themselves in bathroom stalls. The ones in front were shot through the door. Sitting ducks.
shirgall Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Remember the 2011 Norway attack is a model for this sort of shooting... and that had a higher death toll.
zmanx Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Now that we've found out the wife knew about the attack ahead of time, I wouldn't be surprised if he had more help.
A4E Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Remember the 2011 Norway attack is a model for this sort of shooting... and that had a higher death toll. The Norway shooting was located on an isolated island with mostly children and teenagers, being tricked by a person pretending to be a police officer. Also children will generally not be inclined to rush and attack a person who is threatening them or others, which would be the case in a nightclub with 300 people, at any available opportunity. And the children on the island did not have any obvious tools to fight back with, like a vodka bottle, drinking glasses, chairs... The response to the situation on the island was completely retarded, and even hampered, giving him lots of time to do what he wanted. And there is video evidence of the Norway shooting, and evidence of dead bodies. So I don't see much similarity other than having lots of time.
shirgall Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 The Norway shooting was located on an isolated island with mostly children and teenagers, being tricked by a person pretending to be a police officer. Also children will generally not be inclined to rush and attack a person who is threatening them or others, which would be the case in a nightclub with 300 people, at any available opportunity. And the children on the island did not have any obvious tools to fight back with, like a vodka bottle, drinking glasses, chairs... The response to the situation on the island was completely retarded, and even hampered, giving him lots of time to do what he wanted. And there is video evidence of the Norway shooting, and evidence of dead bodies. So I don't see much similarity other than having lots of time. Single shooter, armored with a lot of ammunition, backed up with bombs, in a crowded semi-captive environment, with a political agenda, and where police response was hampered by innocents in the same scene. Asymmetrical warfare in practice. 1
labmath2 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 None of these address the main problem. How many bullets is used per injury/kill? Given what we know about the weather, the way he was dressed, the weight of the guns and bullets (how did he carry so many) and the human response to high stress situation, is it likely that the story could go down as reported? How long before he gets physically exausted?
tasmlab Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 - Dark - Crowded - Loud music playing - Maybe disco lights - People are 2 AM drunk - For whatever reason, the cops spent THREE HOURS not going through the front door, which barely makes sense when I hear it, so many people who could've been saved with medical attention probably bled to death Sad to say, but if this was political and in response to the wars, 'Merica has it coming. x100. (Didn't watch the video)
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