OKCupid: Women Rating Men as Unattractive

[aviet]

In either a recent podcast or one that was posted on the board someone mentioned an article by OKCupid, in which analysis of messaging and male/female attractiveness shows a bell curve on men's ratings of women:

 

and a slippery slope for women's ratings of men:

 

In the podcast this was not discussed in any detail; and I am at a bit of a loss as to what may be driving this.

My first thought is that women put more effort into their physical appearance, in particular in relation to makeup. I was surprised at the extend to which women can up their game with makeup. I think if you take makeup and other effort women are more likely to put in, men and women are fairly equal in base attractiveness; if not more so for men as women seem to suffer much more from bad skin.

But I feel that women putting only 15% of men as medium or better, compared to men putting around 50% of women as medium or better is stringent on the part of women.

Another possibility is that women rate differently than men as a general rule. For example in terms of rating films, I rate something that is 'watchable' as 7/10; whereas my friend, who is a girl, says 'watchable' is 5/10 and she gives a lot of films 10/10; while I have given no film 10/10.

Somewhere else, in relation to the same data, I heard the suggestion that women have come to expect too much of men.

Does anyone have any insights into this phenomena?

 

[dsayers]

I was surprised at the extend to which women can up their game with makeup.

Says who? I find makeup to be a turnoff.

[ThomasTheIdealist]

Says who? I find makeup to be a turnoff.

Who cares? My dislike of rap music doesn't make it any less liked/popular.

[dsayers]

Who cares? My dislike of rap music doesn't make it any less liked/popular.

So what you're saying is that there's a subjective component to it? Well, "women can up their game with makeup" is an objective claim. Who cares would be anybody that can see the difference and the value of the difference between objective and subjective, which appears to include you. In the future, when you're looking to offset something that somebody says, it helps to not actually repeat them

[shirgall]

Says who? I find makeup to be a turnoff.

 

You will find that the gals who are good at it make it far more subtle... but then there's the downside that they spent a lot of time learning how to do that instead of something productive.

 

I suppose finding the best man possible is productive in their eyes, though. Many grains of salt in this recipe. 

[aviet]

Says who? I find makeup to be a turnoff.

 

Two studies:

 

http://time.com/79584/science-women-less-makeup/

http://www.bustle.com/articles/29836-do-guys-like-when-women-wear-makeup-the-answer-is-surprising-according-to-this-study

 

suggest 'less makeup' is preferred more than none or lots.

 

What is it you find a turn off about it?

[Wuzzums]

Says who? I find makeup to be a turnoff.

I was once like you. I always said I preferred the natural look... until someone pointed out to me that there's such a thing as a no-make-up make-up.

Life shattering.

[dsayers]

What is it you find a turn off about it?

In theory, it's what shirgall touched on: The opportunity cost of investing their time effort in something that will enhance the relationship and/or the life of our future child. My fiancee added in practice: the lack of extra expense, extra time, no space taken up, no worries of mess on bedding, my skin, etc.

 

Simply put, it's one of those things that gets done because everybody else does it. While I wouldn't say it's diametrically opposed to self-knowledge, they do seem to me to be in competition. To be fair, I've always been a function over form kind of guy. I own a pair of clippers because I don't care what my hair looks like and I'd rather save the time/money. So it could just be my projection of practicality.

[Jot]

Says who? I find makeup to be a turnoff.

 

How much make-up is a turnoff?

[shirgall]

How much make-up is a turnoff?

 

For me (since this is totally subjective) it's when it becomes noticeable. Everyone tries to look marriageable to some extent. Men try to look like they have resources. Women try to look like they have healthy eggs.

[Jot]

For me (since this is totally subjective) it's when it becomes noticeable. Everyone tries to look marriageable to some extent. Men try to look like they have resources. Women try to look like they have healthy eggs.

 

Yeah, I am of the same mind.

[luxfelix]

Coltaine did an interesting three-part analysis on this and how it relates to the bigger picture of gender relations:

 

[ThomasTheIdealist]

So what you're saying is that there's a subjective component to it? Well, "women can up their game with makeup" is an objective claim.

And? It's also objective to say "featuring half-naked women in your music videos will boost your rap career" but nothing about that it is invalidated by me saying I don't like rap. Do you honestly think most men clicking on that link prefer the photos before added makeup? Even on many of the before photos they have makeup on.

 

I find it hard to believe that one could possibly think that the majority of men do not prefer the aesthetics of makeup reducing blemishes in an attempt to look younger/healthier. That would have significant evolutionary implications.

[aviet]

Coltaine did an interesting three-part analysis on this and how it relates to the bigger picture of gender relations:

Thanks, from the start, this seems like the kind of in-depth info I was looking for.

[dsayers]

I find it hard to believe that one could possibly think that the majority of men do not prefer

Strawman. The rest of your post was deflection.

[ThomasTheIdealist]

Strawman. The rest of your post was deflection.

If it's a strawman, then please explain why you asked "Says who?"

 

If you believed that most men like some makeup on women, you'd have to be pretty stupid to ask that. The answer is clearly: most men.

[dsayers]

If it's a strawman, then please explain why you asked "Says who?"

No, the person with integrity would respond by circling back, taking responsibility for their projection, and making it right. "If it's a strawman -> seek external action" is intellectual sloth.

 

I have already explained how the claim was objective. Objectives are absolute if not otherwise qualified. Providing one example that doesn't fit is sufficient to disprove it. "ups their game for most men" makes it an accurate statement. The irony here is that you're trying to correct me by saying I'm wrong for trying to be correct. If I were you, I'd be thinking about where such a visceral reaction stems from.

[ThomasTheIdealist]

I have already explained how the claim was objective. Objectives are absolute if not otherwise qualified. Providing one example that doesn't fit is sufficient to disprove it. "ups their game for most men" makes it an accurate statement.

So you think it's inaccurate to say someone is "upping their game" by becoming more attractive to the majority of those they're pursuing? Unless you're claiming that "their game" should be defined as exclusively pleasing you, then it seems accurate to me.

[shirgall]

So you think it's inaccurate to say someone is "upping their game" by becoming more attractive to the majority of those they're pursuing? Unless you're claiming that "their game" should be defined as exclusively pleasing you, then it seems accurate to me.

 

From my experience it's the women raising the stakes and the men playing along.

[aviet]

From my experience it's the women raising the stakes and the men playing along.

What do you mean? Like the women are artificially enhancing their beauty (subjective) and men are going along with that lie?

[dsayers]

From my experience it's the women raising the stakes and the men playing along.

Sadly, this is true on both sides of the fence. Women dispose, so men reinforce all kinds of undesirable traits just for the sake of "getting some." Meanwhile, it's no secret that women have sex with and procreate with total douchebags. Both sides are reinforcing undesirable traits. All the more reason why we so desperately need peaceful parenting.

[aviet]

Women dispose, so men reinforce all kinds of undesirable traits just for the sake of "getting some."

Could you give example(s)? I am assuming you mean something like men showering women with gifts, essentially in exchange for sex. Or lying or withholding information as a way to lure a women into what is being advertised as a relationship that can go somewhere, when it is really just a vehicle for sex.

 

And do you have any examples of women doing the same?

[shirgall]

What do you mean? Like the women are artificially enhancing their beauty (subjective) and men are going along with that lie?

 

Women doing everything they can to retain their sexual market value by appearing youthful, aroused, fertile, and healthy as long as possible, and flaunting their resources to stratify society. Men like nubility and pulchritude so they're not going to complain too much.

[luxfelix]

Thanks, from the start, this seems like the kind of in-depth info I was looking for.

 

My pleasure. 

 

 

Women doing everything they can to retain their sexual market value by appearing youthful, aroused, fertile, and healthy as long as possible, and flaunting their resources to stratify society. Men like nubility and pulchritude so they're not going to complain too much.

 

Learning more about different types of capital, I came across this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_capital

 

Fertile Capital (Fc) can be converted to other, perhaps more stable, forms of capital too; for example, starting a family may reduce Fc, but increase Social Capital (Sc) for the future.

 

Also, "pulchritude" is one of those words that sounds like the opposite of its meaning...