Help required for Facebook reply to a Facebook post that's pro the UK remaining in the EU

[Salem]

Please can someone help me response to a Facebook post that lists famous names that are for the UK staying in the EU. I want out but cannot find a list of famous Brixiteers. Here's the Facebook page I hope you can access it - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157225488510495&id=884890494

[dsayers]

Name dropping is an appeal to authority and not an argument. Whether UK is in the EU or not, they're still going to bully and claim ownership of people living within its borders. So I see this as little more than a distraction in an attempt to legitimize their claim.

[A4E]

Adolf Hitler wants a european state. What Adolf Hitler wants is in your best interest.

[fractional slacker]

Being persuaded by celebrities should automatically void one's vote.  Not sure it's good use of resources trying to talk folks out of dumb.

[luxfelix]

I noticed many of the comments referred to the widespread nature of the post becoming viral as another proof of its legitimacy... social pressure?

[Salem]

I gave up. Those that want to stay in are fixed and are not open to anything other than in. Thanks anyway

[A4E]

This video appeared on my youtube feed. It is about how the same scare tactics were used in Norway before we voted no.

 

[regevdl]

Please can someone help me response to a Facebook post that lists famous names that are for the UK staying in the EU. I want out but cannot find a list of famous Brixiteers. Here's the Facebook page I hope you can access it - https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157225488510495&id=884890494

If you haven't already, go to FB page of Nigel Farage  .....he's a Brit politican...sort of the British Ron Paul and is fighting this tooth and nail.  He has a LOT of great content on his page of his activity to get out of the EU.... spread his content to inform others.  

[Somewhere]

Remain is a very establishment campaign, so the list is a broadly accurate representation of what is happening. According to the polls, the working class wants Leave (roughly 2 to 1 in favour) whereas the middle class wants Remain (again roughly 2 to 1 in favour). Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, most politicians and the UK's largest companies want Remain, while entrepreneurs like James Dyson want Leave. Some trade unions want Leave.

https://www.facebook.com/LabourLeaveGroup/photos/a.1296892710326494.1073741828.1291676554181443/1371921186156979/

 

Martin Lewis said he is slightly in favour of Remain, not "strongly" as stated by the list.

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/#ivote

 

Lexit The Movie, a left-wing video produced on a tiny budget, is worth watching. They are quite good on the economic case, in particular the segment on the euro starting here https://youtu.be/pq72f81kkM4?t=1662which is a gem. The simplest rebuttal to the Facebook list could just be to mention that a similar list of people were adamant that the UK had to join the euro, the currency that had such disastrous consequences for Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal. The much better-known Brexit The Movie is also good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k. Flexcit The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GliFMIHiGog is interesting in a geeky how-things-work way because it looks at the details of how a "leave" would work.

 

 

[Salem]

Thank you people. The problem is that people that have decided to stay in the EU have turned they're ears off. Although Nigel Ferage is a brilliant man, people on the remain side hate him and see him a racist etc. I think it's all just about done now after Cameron's question time appearance, hopefully we are to leave the EU.

Best of luck to all in favour of Brexit.

[Troubador]

A lot of it is smoke and mirrors, both sides have queered the pitch with a tremendous amount of bullshit so people are now voting with their hearts rather than their heads. The biggest lie which both sides are actually in alignment on, and also potentially the most dangerous one of all is that this is a one off. As if our sovereignty depends upon this one vote we have in our lives about in/out Europe. If sovereignty exists in any meaningful way it's foundation lies in our personal liberty, so don't worry if we remain and the E.U. continues to circle it's inevitable descent around the toilet bowl of history if we want to take the reigns and not go down with it, future opportunities will present themselves to avoid that fate, as long as we are willing to see through that single huge lie that we have no control.

 

I've studied both sides and rebutted most of the main arguments in my head (that both sides present), and when the argument is couched in terms of engagement the leave/remain camps present them there IS no cogent right answer, because in order to provide the certainty one would need to see the future. It's easier if you bring the discussion down to principle. If you accept the supposition of nation states, then capitalist democracies are the least worst way to organise them. Then some accountability amongst the leadership to an electorate is better than little to no accountability. The E.U. is less democratic than the U.K. Parliament therefore over a longer term it cannot meet the interests of that electorate as efficiently. Europe has more interests it's trying to juggle. Those interests are not just the nation states themselves, but also the myriad of European political parties that exist (and remember members of of the European Parliament are sat by political party not by nation). Stronger democracies generally function best on two party systems, when it's fragmented to the extent Europe has it becomes an absolute mess.

 

Sure there will be short to even medium consequences of a Brexit, and as always the poor will suffer it the most, but stay in Europe and the poor will suffer over a much longer period, so do you want to rip the band-aid off quickly or draw it out tortuously? The immigration issue is a complete red herring, we can benefit hugely from the skilled labour of individuals who aspire to British values, and every western nation has dropped the ball when it comes to this issue. The short to medium term practical solution is to fund the UNHCR which as the global organisation setup to deal with refugees as of last summer had not only seen its funding increase 30% since the noughties (and most of that increase comes from private sector and NOT nations themselves), but has seen the levels of refugees rise by magnitudes over the same period. If you read it's reports it's basically in a doomed holding pattern of trying to plug leaks in a dam with only so many fingers, we need to give it more resources. The long term solution is to stop buggering around with the destinies of other nations, and work towards trading (possibly not guns! At least not at the moment), with them.

 

Most of all we need to point one massive accusatory finger at the media which actively works towards scaring the hell out of us, and making us feel impotent.

 

(Sorry I've kind of gone off tangentially here on a rant! I'll close now and get some sleep!)

[regevdl]

Thank you people. The problem is that people that have decided to stay in the EU have turned they're ears off. Although Nigel Ferage is a brilliant man, people on the remain side hate him and see him a racist etc. I think it's all just about done now after Cameron's question time appearance, hopefully we are to leave the EU.

Best of luck to all in favour of Brexit.

ok so then stop using faces to push your agenda.  You asked for names but we offered and you gave reasons why they won't work.  so...maybe use an approach that won't require using 'famous faces' since some already have biases against said individuals.

 

Use the moral argument.... that to end slavery, the masses didn't argue what the labor value of cotton picking will be in 5 or 10 years.... they saw it as immoral and began dismantling it.  

 

Argue how the EU is NOT democratic which is against Western values in exchange for what....convenience to enter in and out of other countries? 

 

Argue that even with the added layer of EU govt...the British gvt didn't downsize.  So it's just MORE gvt layered on MORE gvt layered on MORE gvt. 

 

And ANYONE who knows the interest rates and how the economy will be in 5-10 years would be making a FORTUNE on the stock market... so this is evidence that it's a bullshit excuse and no one knows how the economy will behave in 5-10 years.  no one.  They know no more about the interest rates in 5 years than you do so when they say.... hey...it'll be fine and they say...NO...NO it won't..... they can't even truthfully say they know it will or won't be fine.  These are the same people that either knew Greece lied about their financial status and didn't care enough to prevent that fiasco OR they didn't know which means...they don't even know what the hell is going on in present-day....let alone in 5-10 years.  

 

This economic scare-tactic is bullying in terms of 'gee....if you don't vote to keep us in power, it would be a real shame if something bad happened to your economy...'  It's more gvt coercion.

 

Just plant these logical seeds in people.  They won't sink it right away but usually after the conversation it sticks with them...especially when they don't have a adequate rebuttal.