Socialisation - feedback appreciated

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

Feedback or comment would be welcome.

 

https://fourbirdseducation.com/2016/06/22/but-what-about-socialisation/

 

 

[dsayers]

I found this part to be particularly interesting:

 

I have also worked privately with children as they transition into school for the first time and the change in their behaviour at home is noticeable. They become meaner and more argumentative. They develop shyness that didn’t exist before or a grandiose sense of entitlement. The change is rapid and drastic, noticeable within the first few weeks.

And this part was the part I was hoping to see and the most important point IMO:

 

the primary agents responsible for a child’s socialisation, in a perfect world, should be the parents of that child.

...minus the "perfect world" part. Parents model for their children all the time whether they like it/mean to or not. The only way to stop this is to for the two to be separated. If a parent negotiates with the child and nurtures them, the child will have all they need to be able to interact with anybody else.

 

I also really liked this point:

 

school relationships are no more a voluntary association than prison relationships are.

This part was a good point that I had never considered:

 

A child with a friend at school never has to learn the value of investing in a friendship because they are guaranteed to see their friend almost every day.

This was another good point:

 

in class- students are generally punished if they try to socialise with each other instead of doing their assigned work.

 

Great article overall. I wanted to add something I came to realize a couple days ago about "physical education" class. I recently visited a friend who has been working out at a gym regularly for years. He's an engineer (read: desk jockey) with a small frame. However, he's in very great shape and pretty built. We went into his basement where he has some gym equipment. He told me about this book: The New Rules of Lifting Supercharged. We covered the basics and I did some exercises with him. Within the first 24 hours, the ways in which the knowledge I gained and exercises we did improved my life were incredible. I picked up a copy for myself, along with some basic equipment. I've read the entire book and I can honestly say that I've gotten more from it in the context of physical education than I did from 12 years of government school PE and Health classes combined, and in WAY shorter amount of time. Which was consumed because it was of interest to me, so the absorption was more meaningful and is being applied to my life because I've chosen to and enjoy it. I experience joy and self-motivation, which are polar opposites of what government phys ed instilled in me.

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

Thanks very much for your feedback and your anecdote. I agree, it is much more rewarding to learn something on your own because you want to, rather than because you have to.

[Jakethehuman]

Nice article, shared on fb.

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

Nice article, shared on fb.

Thank you, Jake. :-)

[Eh Steve]

Nice Article   I like the title, it reminds me of the objection to anarchy being "But what about the roads?" 

 

It is funny with the "socialization" fear.  I sort of go....yes....that is the entire point!  I want this culture to be foreign to them!  I don't want them instinctively to be familiar with hierarchies and all the madness going on.  I don't want them to fit in that easily.  I want them to be weird but also be immune to bullying.  I don't want my kid to schizophrenically live in two distinctly different cultures.  And as you noted they end up bringing the school culture home with them.

 

I think there is a dosage question when it comes to interacting with the dominant culture for children.  It coooould be helpful for them to understand what other families and people are like as they are growing up.  I'm not sure at what age they need to be exposed to that.  Stef had Izzy playing with the neighborhood kids, at the pool, and at parks from a fairly young age (while being supervised obviously).  So that might be a non-harmful version of what people are trying to achieve in terms of socializing without the "just toss them in prison" nonsense.

 

I'd be interested to read about home-schooled / attachment / peaceful parents results with having kids interact with the neighborhood in these lower doses and the pros and cons of it.  I think school is obviously absurd, but I do wonder how much my kids will be able to handle or we're gonna be living on the ol' potato farm by ourselves

[Eh Steve]

I feel it might be appropriate to add a non-counteracting way to possibly deal with these people now that I have my outrage out of the way.  In many ways how we handle questions about peaceful parenting may be a psychological test people are offering up to us.  So I figure how we respond, if we are capable of being curious and empathetic, will emotionally demonstrate the points we are trying to make.

 

Particularly if I am dealing with people on the fence about peaceful parenting / home-schooling rather than someone who is just a staunch child-abuser, I'd want to really figure out their fear and try to understand and possibly abate it as best I could.  That ideally we are trying to get as many converts as possible, but not spend our time lashing out at people who are just not gonna adapt to the new paradigm.  So really trying to compassionately understand and reconcile the fears / concerns of others and get the message through as a possibility would be best if we want more peaceful kids for our kids to be friends with

 

First I would need to find out what it is they value about socialization.  My hunch would be their fear is some combination of "My child isn't going to be able to succeed within society", "My child will be bullied and unable to defend themselves", "Other people will dislike my child".  These are legitimate fears.  People deeply understand what ostracism, harm, and abandonment by society feel like.  And in their core this question may be a really big fear of theirs that we should seek to help them understand and work through if they are going to become peaceful parents.

 

Ifff they are resistant to trying an emotional approach like this first we can go ahead with other alternatives:  Objectivity.

 

From this viewpoint we would need to provide at the very least some anecdotes which conflict with the persons fears.  So it would be useful to have studies or anecdotes on homeschooled kids being happy and successful as adults.  I'm not brushed up enough to toss out stats and anecdotes willy-nilly, but Bill Gates comes to mind.  Those resources would be great to have on hand to say "oh, and objectively the kids turn out great and have a blast!".

 

I think emotionally these people aren't really fearing being peacefully parented and homeschooled.  Since they weren't raised that way it wouldn't make sense for them to really understand it.  They are fearing ostracism etc. etc. within the system.  So it is tricky to find ways to get through to them how being homeschooled isn't the same as being a sheltered kid who still is part of the dominant culture.

 

Do you have any additional thoughts on the subject?  Since you have more experience on the subject I'd love to hear if you have any experience talking with people about this and how it has gone.  I'll give your blog a read through, it's been quite a while since I truly really studied the subject and sorta need to start preparing better for my family   I'm currently trying to work on being more of an advocate and welcomer rather than being reactive to the dominant culture.  I thiiiink / feel like that is probably the best way to get new people and help ease the fears about this cultural transition.

[Mister Mister]

This always made me laugh, because I can't count the number of times I was told at school by some boring sad middle-aged teacher, "Mr. Rose, you're not here to socialize".

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

Eh Steve- Thanks for both of your comments. :-)

First off, is the experience of public school really the dominant culture? There is a lot of carry-over in the ideals and attitudes cultivated there because the majority of people are essentially raised by schools and of course will then spread that infection into the adult world to some degree. However, school is very distinct from the reality of living in the adult world. So I think while school teaches and reinforces dysfunctional behaviour, the actual culture of school cannot be fully replicated outside of school because it is just so far removed from the realities of having to deal with other people, work with them, form relationships with them, etc. Would children not get a better idea of the dominant culture by simply being exposed to the real world sans school?

 

I do agree with you that it would be worthwhile to figure out what it is a person values about the socialisation they perceive to be happening at schools. My view is that socialisation is just something they parrot without even really thinking about what it means. They have an emotional knee-jerk reaction to the thought of someone homeschooling and going against the statist grain that they don't even think about what it is they are saying. I've found that if I press people about socialisation, they just give me a word salad without actually conveying any real thoughts or values.

When my sister-in-law found out I wanted to homeschool my kids, she called up my husband at work one day and screamed at him about it for almost two hours, saying that he better not let me homeschool our kids or they would turn out to be "American brats" because they wouldn't be properly socialised (his family is German). A couple years later, I actually got a chance to talk to her about it face to face and it turned out her only real objection was that she just found homeschooling "weird" and didn't actually know anything about it. The people who bring up the argument about socialisation are, in my personal experience, some of the least informed about homeschooling or education in general.

I also remember my mother copping a lot of criticism from neighbours about her choice to homeschool and they would always argue the socialisation aspect, despite the fact that their kids lived right next door and still came to play with my siblings regularly, as well as knowing full well that all my brothers were in Scouts and Tae Kwon Do with their kids. I'm thinking it's because they don't know enough about homeschooling to form any other objection to it.

The blog is not mine, fyi. A few of the articles on it are, but it's run by a friend of mine. I'm just helping out with the writing while he focuses on other projects.

RoseCodex- Oh my god, yes! Kids get told that several times a day and the fact that they still somehow grow up to believe that school is about socialisation is mind boggling. Most adults now probably even still got a recess. A lot of schools now have cut that.

 

[A4E]

Awesome article! Easy to read and understand. Deserves a good youtube video based on it.

[dsayers]

First off, is the experience of public school really the dominant culture? There is a lot of carry-over in the ideals and attitudes cultivated there because the majority of people are essentially raised by schools and of course will then spread that infection into the adult world to some degree. However, school is very distinct from the reality of living in the adult world. So I think while school teaches and reinforces dysfunctional behaviour, the actual culture of school cannot be fully replicated outside of school because it is just so far removed from the realities of having to deal with other people, work with them, form relationships with them, etc. Would children not get a better idea of the dominant culture by simply being exposed to the real world sans school?

When I was in government schools, there were groups projects. Meanwhile, I work with people who only hang out after work because they work together (proximity). So I wouldn't say that schools don't mimic that.

 

I wonder though why even look at "dominant" culture? If the dominant culture is slavery and slavery is wrong, let's raise our children to think rationally, accept that slavery is wrong, and let the dominant culture shift accordingly. Culture is momentum, but it's not ordained or immovable. I think it might be healthy to help children understand how ugly the world is/can be, but not to normalize them for it with or without school.