Tudenom Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 I've been slogging it out in the vile festering pool of feces called the "facebook" ever since the Orlando shooting and I've reached my limit to the amount of name calling and irrationality I can handle. I'm shooting a black powder rendezvous this weekend, that should set me on the path to recovery. How do you folks recharge? 1
Tudenom Posted June 29, 2016 Author Posted June 29, 2016 How then do you force your will upon others?
MysterionMuffles Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Solution: Don't "battle it out" on social media. Stole the words right out of my...hands. 2 1
dsayers Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 If you're going to engage in any behavior that requires a recharge afterwards, be sure it's self-edifying. Don't expend your precious resources for naught. I recommend recharging by watching Stef's Bomb in the Brain series. You can't change the minds of people without first understanding WHY they hold the conclusions that they do. If it's not based on logic, reason, and evidence, then those things will not convince them otherwise. In fact, to challenge their beliefs and fail to change them will actually strengthen them.
aviet Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 From advice received here and FDR podcasts, it is apparent that most people will not receive conflicting information, even if you provide them with concrete evidence. At least not immediately.In my life, I have had better success by just discussing things rather tepidly. I have introduced people to alternatives that they have in some cases shifted massively to. If not they can at least understand positions.If you want to change people's mind, you need to know what has led them to those conclusions, which isn't really something you can do on social media.
dsayers Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 If you want to change people's mind, you need to know what has led them to those conclusions, which isn't really something you can do on social media. I'm not so sure. Especially in such a public, interconnected place, social and familial ostracism is very reliable catch-all. This is why you don't largely see people engaging in pro-slavery talk except for shock value: They understand that slavery is largely seen as "bad." Whereas you HAVE to support your troops!!1!
Tudenom Posted June 30, 2016 Author Posted June 30, 2016 So far it's been a very frustrating experience, and a complete waste of time. From now on I'll try to "feel out" people who are open to a meaningful discussion first before making a stand on an issue. Sometimes I feel like I'm part of some secret society that identifies each other through code words and phrases. John has a long mustache. The chair is against the wall.
A4E Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 In public discussions there are people who will implicitly demand that you fight it out with them in the mud, and will hold you down there until they see an opportunity to declare victory for themselves, accompanied with heaps of slander towards you. You have various options that are much better than joining them in the mud. Ignoring is better, and gives you time to do other things. Also you can ignore the jabs to your pride, and conduct a respectable interview of the person's position. It will usually reveal the flaws of the position, unless the person just keeps on throwing slander at you, in which case you can refer to Socrates' "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.". If you feel like having fun, you can pretend to hold a blatantly false and more outrageous position than the person, and impose it on the person in the exact same manner that the person is imposing his position on you. I have no respect for people who resort to slander, which is why I allow myself to be a d sometimes to such people. I have found that the two last methods will make the person stop replying, or just become 100% slander focused. If you pretend to hold a more outrageous position, and the other person still keeps on fighting you as if you actually hold your pretend/trolling position, then you might also be dealing with a troll, or perhaps he is genuinely mentally disturbed. I avoid using trolling in this forum, because I know this place is way too respected to accept that.
jpahmad Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 I've been slogging it out in the vile festering pool of feces called the "facebook" ever since the Orlando shooting and I've reached my limit to the amount of name calling and irrationality I can handle. I'm shooting a black powder rendezvous this weekend, that should set me on the path to recovery. How do you folks recharge? Switch to battling it out on Freedomainradio message boards 1
NotDarkYet Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Imho, if one can battle in a coherent sensible way (ie, not seeming angry or unhinged), then you're doing a good thing. If people see conservatives/free-market people flipping out - that doesn't help our cause. For relaxing: Peace of mind is difficult after a disturbing debate. Takes me days to get back to normal. 1
shirgall Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Never argue deeply with anyone not willing to change, or if you are not willing to change if presented with compelling reason or evidence. 3
Kevin Beal Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 You have to do something about the dread of anticipating other people's backlash. That's what makes the stress linger. That and feeling insecure in yourself, what you are trying to do. Having good people in your life, who support you, helps you feel the security. But the dread is a little more complicated. If someone is totally horrible to you, then you should probably block them. If they are making good arguments, then there's an opportunity to learn there, and even be humbled (which is way more satisfying than it looks before conceding something). If they are just annoying, going in circles, being pedantic, and all of that, then just let them have the last word. 2
AccuTron Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 ...If people see conservatives/free-market people flipping out - that doesn't help our cause. For relaxing: Peace of mind is difficult after a disturbing debate. Takes me days to get back to normal. Your first point above: I keep reminding myself of that. I don't have many public/private contacts to test...having had any makes me want to avoid all...and I keep my cool, and realize the operative word is EXIT...and later I want to scream. Your second point, and OP too: Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who gets so rattled.
Will Torbald Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Trolling is a art. Humor makes it better, you have to enjoy it.
aviet Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 If you feel like having fun, you can pretend to hold a blatantly false and more outrageous position than the person, and impose it on the person in the exact same manner that the person is imposing his position on you. I have no respect for people who resort to slander, which is why I allow myself to be a d sometimes to such people. I will give that a go. Do you have any examples of using? Any success in changing opinion?
dsayers Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 Switch to battling it out on Freedomainradio message boards That's a good point. With only 3 posts, I have to ask: Why take a path of little/no resistance? That's no way to build a muscle or arrive at the truth.
A4E Posted June 30, 2016 Posted June 30, 2016 I will give that a go. Do you have any examples of using? Any success in changing opinion? Outside of this forum I think it is very rare to see anyone publicly admit that they have changed opinion about something, so that is not something you will get any confirmation of. Not that it will ever happen with this trolling. If nothing else it is very effective in making people stop replying. Here is an example. I remember it well because it was perhaps the only time that a person has continued, and in the same path of "king of the hill" pride and slander no matter what I wrote. Which was interesting but a little bit scary. Him- We have been to the moon. Period. And you slander, or anyone else who thinks otherwise are slander slander. Me- But why are you so interested in that? Isn't it much more awesome that we have already been to Mars? Him- Huh? You slander slander, show me some evidence of that. Me- (me listing characters from Mission to Mars), are on video landing on mars. What rock did you crawl out from beneath?? Him- You slander slander, that is a movie. You have to be really slander slander. Me- What? are you one of those Mars landing deniers? You think they staged the Mars landing?? OMG. Him- You slander slander, I can show you that it is a movie, here is a link! What do you say now slander slander? Me- That is probably a link to one of your Mars landing denier sites. Do you really believe in garbage like that? Why can you not just accept that we have been to Mars? Countless people are on video going to Mars, so you will have to prove that we did not go there when there is so much footage of people being on Mars. And did you know Mars needs moms! ...etc The conversation did not go exactly like that, just in rough terms. His slander increased to 100% (started around 60%)
Eh Steve Posted July 5, 2016 Posted July 5, 2016 Here's a fun idea Try examining what it is you desire out of slogging it out on facebook. I wouldn't want to tell you just to not do it this is a good chance for some self-knowledge Try this out, it might totally help more than reading anything I could say here since you'll be generating your own reasoning and emotions rather than responses from others This exercise will be more about the slogging it out on facebook part. If you would like you could do a similar exercise for the anxiety you feel afterwards, and I can help give you a similar example for that feeling if you find it difficult to plug it into this exercise An example exercise: Imagine you are really really drawn to slogging it out on facebook (either when it happens or just as an exercise) imagine to yourself saying to the people you are responding to "I need to slog it out on facebook with you because....." and then write down / say / think sentences until you find one that feels the strongest. And then imagine saying to those people "If I don't slog it out on facebook with you, then....." and again write down etc. the response which feels strongest to you. After those two, now do something very different: Imagine you wake up with absolutely zero desire to slog it out on facebook with people. Not only do you have no desire to do it, but you also know that you're never going to want to do it again. What does that feel like? Is there anything unwelcome or unpleasant about feeling that way? Write down / take note of what this feels like and what you learn from this. Now get back in touch with your feeling of wanting to slog it out on facebook. Imagine a situation that really strongly provokes that urge. Feel the desire to slog it out as strongly as you can within your body. Now ask it: "What is your job?" "How do you serve me?" Spend some time with this feeling and getting to know it and hearing the answers. Write down what you learn, this should generate a good amount of self-knowledge about why you do what you do As to my personal experience: I'm personally conflict averse as hellllll so this isn't something I can relate to doing often. I did it briefly years and years ago when I was first introduced to peaceful parenting and was like YOU GUYS ARE JERKS! LOOK AT THESE STATS! But after that I kinda wore off and had found my footing and comfort in my beliefs without needing to aggressively throw it at people. I just kinda avoid facebook now, I probably could make more attempts at getting my thoughts out there and should examine my emotions around it a bit more honestly. On the boards here I don't often conflict with people and get upset when it happens. I try to find common ground and make peace if I find people are worth making peace with. People on the boards are always worth some attempts to me But that's just me, you might have totally valid reasons to be slogging it out. Certainly from an emotional level I think people have valid reasons to do everything they do, it just happens sometimes it isn't always objectively useful or optimally healthy for them to be doing whatever it is. Some people find debate / slogging it out sharpens their skills and thinking. Often I think for the vast majority of us we grow up within that culture, and as you said "how do I force my will on others?". When I was in my debating the mass-population mode, that was very much my reason for doing so. I wasn't trying to understand anyone or help the world, I was lashing out trying to be the smartest guy around for an ego-boost. And that isn't inherently bad. But I think it is worth examining our emotions and reasons for our behavior to get the most out of life. 2
shirgall Posted July 6, 2016 Posted July 6, 2016 Outside of this forum I think it is very rare to see anyone publicly admit that they have changed opinion about something... Outside of this forum, how often have you seen someone post they were sorry? It's a similar phenomenon.
A4E Posted July 6, 2016 Posted July 6, 2016 Outside of this forum, how often have you seen someone post they were sorry? It's a similar phenomenon. I could probably count it on 1 hand. Not counting those who are close friends. Quite a few bullshit apologies though.
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