Question for men...

[Xbander]

I've been a married man for 7 years now, no kids, no abuse in my background, no rap sheet.

As an insult from women in my life, I have been called "crazy" at different times, in the context of "F you, you're F'n crazy" or "get away from me, you're crazy". It's always been as a parting shot, from women I've had bad experiences with that ended in bitter fights. This is not a common occurrence, but it stands out as the times that it has happened that puzzle me, because that has been their go-to insult.

 I'm an average guy, I have many friends and loved ones. I talk to people regularly, other people close to me have never called me crazy.

These were not all from women that I had intimacy with, some were just friends.

My question for men is, (assuming you're a sane, rational group)

 

Have you experienced the same when ending it with a woman?

If "crazy" is that common of an insult, what could be the reason behind that choice of words?

[Will Torbald]

Were you being crazy, though? I mean, they could have been right. I don't know, you didn't give the details of what you were talking about before they called you crazy.

[Wuzzums]

You're not giving much to work with, however people do usually resort to insults when they feel their beliefs significantly challenged.

[DaviesMa]

In what context did they call you crazy? Was it in response to you explaining your reasons for breaking up or just as a general comment?

 

Did you ask for further elaboration about what they meant?

[Xbander]

My inquiry is not "Am I crazy?" that the responses so far have misconstrued.

 

My question is, in your negative experiences with women, is being called "crazy" a common insult?

 

I thought the context was clear. When you are severing ties with someone in an uncouth manner, insults are usually hurled.

[Mister Mister]

My experience/impression, is actually that crazy is more often leveled at women, whereas "mean" or "asshole" is more often leveled at men.

[Will Torbald]

My inquiry is not "Am I crazy?" that the responses so far have misconstrued.

 

My question is, in your negative experiences with women, is being called "crazy" a common insult?

 

I thought the context was clear. When you are severing ties with someone in an uncouth manner, insults are usually hurled.

 

Crazy is not an insult if it accurately describes what you were doing.

[Xbander]

Crazy is not an insult if it accurately describes what you were doing.

 

I understand, but that wasn't the question.

[DaviesMa]

I agree with RoseCodex that women are more likely to use a pejorative that means that you are heartless, such as asshole.

 

If women know someone quite well they are usually quite good at knowing what the person is self-conscious about such as their performance in bed, their employment status or something personal to them.

 

I remember failing my driving test a few times when I was young and when I got in an argument with a girl I knew she said I was shit at driving and would never pass my test - although I did eventually pass it hurt at the time.

 

Whenever I have been called crazy by a woman it is when I have broken some social rules or been quite adventurous and it is usually a response to them both being uncomfortable and impressed by my courage (athough it doesn't happen that often.)

[csekavec]

I was called crazy once. By a crazy woman. 

 

However I do wonder something about you. Why seek anecdotes? Why do you hold in high regard the opinions of those people calling you crazy?  No one who cares about you would use that word against you except as statement of fact. 

[Kikker]

I understand, but that wasn't the question.

 

It's unclear why you ask the question, if people can't deduce that from the context you give you are bound to get "wrong" answers.

[Xbander]

I was called crazy once. By a crazy woman. 

 

However I do wonder something about you. Why seek anecdotes? Why do you hold in high regard the opinions of those people calling you crazy?  No one who cares about you would use that word against you except as statement of fact. 

 

I don't. I was simply asking if other men experienced the same instances.

[The Underthinker]

I have not been called crazy, but I think I've experienced similar with two different relationship break-ups. Both were into the feminist spectrum of political belief and both were hard-working, ambitious women. This in contrast with two other women who were also in that political spectrum, but had very gentle break-ups, as much as is possible.

The two situations where it got ugly, one pleaded with me and said that she would do ANYTHING to not break up. Afterwards though, anyone who I met who had met her first seemed to be very cautious of me initially. It was clear she was backtalking a lot about me. I confronted her, and she admitted it.

The other completely avoids me and does not want to talk to me in any way, which I respect. But the last time we did talk post break up, it was clear she was blaming me for a million things I hadn't done or things she had done herself as well before I ever had. 

I think that breaking up is hard on both men and women, but I think there is an additional biological component at play; women have an evolutionary deeper incentive to keep the man around and not break-up.
Without a man, she would risk not being able to feed her children, protect her children with quite the same vigor as when that man does stick around. I think that some women are better able to deal with these deep feelings of pain and loss than others.

And yes, those that are not able to deal with this well lash out; to try and inflict the pain on you that they are feeling themselves. To possibly bully you into staying. 

That's my interpretation/understanding anyways. I don't think women have a special right to feel aggrieved, but I think breakups are harder on women than on men.

[dsayers]

When somebody is using name-calling to harm you, they're saying more about them than they are of you. All they're accurately saying about you is that you made the mistake of letting such person in your life at the expense of your future self. I would only focus on that and only for the sake of providing future you with better opportunities.

[shirgall]

Bottom line: Contempt is insurmountable. Banter is fun. As a couple you will have to sympathetically determine which is operating. If it's contempt the relationship is over. If it's banter, it's not hard to set boundaries.

[Xbander]

Thank you all for the valuable input.

[virtue]

I've not been called crazy. However I've been call an a***hole, not because I did something wrong, but because I did not behave according to the woman's expectations.

 

The last woman I dated, for example, was furious at me because I didn't tell her, "I love you" on the third date - and only casual conversation occurred on the first two dates. She was surprised when I didn't ask her out on another date.

 

Sidebar: This behavior from women is one reason, and there are plenty of others, why Stefan is only half right when he claims women have the eggs, and they decide who's genes continue. A man has an equivalent, and arguably even a greater power over whether a woman's genes continue. The power of "No" is not exclusive to women yet Stefan continues to present a one-sided view. It will take male-birth control in the form of a pill to really see that women only have half the power Stefan claims they do.

 

My advice to you, if you don't care about the woman's opinion, is to say "Thanks. Have a good day" and go about your day. If you do care about the woman, engage her in conversation, by saying some thing like, "Okay, say I'm crazy.... help me improve, help me understand what's crazy about me". And then listen, and only ask questions that further the exploration of the topic. Take nothing personally. Take some time to think about what she said, and make a decision whether you think she right, or she's wrong. If she's right you need to thank her for her time and honesty and make the changes you need to. If she's wrong, tell her why, as nicely as you can, and just move on.

[meetjoeblack]

My question for men is, (assuming you're a sane, rational group)

 

Have you experienced the same when ending it with a woman?

If "crazy" is that common of an insult, what could be the reason behind that choice of words?

 

I have posted a similar thread. If you mind looking at it, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

To answer your question; let me begin with a quote: "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." When it ends with a woman, nasty shots are fired in the form of emasculation, you aren't man enough, tall enough, you aren't a good enough provider, shaming language, and any form of manipulation. I will take this further and input the use of tears as a way to manipulate. I have met many women who can turn on the water works at will. It is pretty messed up.

 

I have had a life time of a nasty experiences with women. I am not talking just about dating. I am beginning with the school system that is predominantly women, many teachers a lot of whom are single mothers, women superiors be it supervisors, managers, and others in the workplace. I once had a female boss who called me "inappropriate" because a woman gave me her number. On break, the woman boss began discussing her sex life in detail. It sounded quite fabricated given her size and over bearing demeanor not to mention the lack of attractiveness. With respect to dating, it is riddled full of landmines, testing the waters, and sorting through the same patterns of what I can only describe as absolute madness. What people think is acceptable is unreal.

 

The answer to your question is control. A woman wants control. The use of force, shaming language, and manipulation is control. I have observed women in situations where, once they've made a decision that it is over, she will run out on her husband while living in his house. I have seen women as old as thirty-five, far gone in terms of youth yet. acting like a teen bopper in high school behaving like a cat in heat. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

 

Congrats on marriage. Something I have observed is, people especially scorned women will rage and be nasty at a man who has that happy bubble nuclear family; wife, two kids, happily go lucky. Kill them with kindness. I hope to get married one day like you only have a few kids. Given the life time of shitty experiences dating or with women, it makes it very difficult to think about let alone, risk someone unleashing the dogs of the state on me, my resources, my assets, and taking away my children.

[GregMerwe]

In some context being called crazy can be a positive. It is hip to be a bit crazy and come up with new ideas. In an argument to call someone crazy usually the person has nothing else to say and is just saying that because they are not wanting to hear anything else. If they keep repeating it like a crazy person, then you can see they are using it in that way. I don't think they are saying that you are actually crazy and should be admitted for your own safety.

[Frosty]

I try not to engage in discussion with women that is likely to lead to them being upset about something, it simply isn't worth it because you'll never in a million years get something rational out of them, so why bother.

 

The few times women have seen fit to sling insults or get angry I don't recall being called crazy. Remember that women are much better social manipulators than men, they've evolved with social manipulation as a primary strategy for having agency in the world, they're also trained around other girls from a young age to socialize and manipulate through their play.

 

I would make a stab in the dark that you're sensitive to this particular insult. Has it been used any more than the others, or is it confirmation bias where you remember that particular insult more than others. What women choose to call you won't be random, it will be designed (albeit it unconsciously) to do the most amount of damage. And women can feel out your personality quite well over time. So for example if you have a deep worry that you'll turn out like your father, and he was hypothetically a drunk or whatever, then they'll shout something like "you're just like your dad".

 

So question. Does that insult bother you more than others? If so why? Do you think you outwardly project anything that would tell a woman that it would be a particuarly damaging insult to you? Those are HARD questions to answer on your own because of your subjective bias. If you have a close female friend then speak to them about it and ask them those questions.

[Rventurelli]

I can only think of one woman that I was dating or in a relationship that called me crazy -- and she was incredibly crazy. Insane asylum type of crazy.

[meetjoeblack]

Bottom line: Contempt is insurmountable. Banter is fun. As a couple you will have to sympathetically determine which is operating. If it's contempt the relationship is over. If it's banter, it's not hard to set boundaries.

 

And another good post. I agree. I think boundaries are monumental to a relationship. I wish I was more aware of that in my teens lol

I can only think of one woman that I was dating or in a relationship that called me crazy -- and she was incredibly crazy. Insane asylum type of crazy.

 

Likely a projection. I have had girls act weird to me after they wanted to have sex. It never made sense to me. Like, one kept going on about her sex toys which was suppose to be her green light indicator for me. I did not bite. After a glass or two of wine, she got loose lips (more then one lol). After she suggested sex, she got weird about things, and later disappeared off my radar completely. Its funny how, we men are still expected to pursue, ask out, and propose despite the nonsense about equality. Not saying women don't. Men get rejected all the time and even with sex in a LTR or marriage. Its just common place. Women are haters if rejected.

[Reggio]

I, too, was called crazy. Often during relationships and in more than half of the cases when they ended. I was called crazy by my class mates too, though, and by a whole lot of other people, because I have always been more honest and less adapted than those around me.

 

In my experience it is a way of saying "I can't accept your point of view and I don't have to because you are crazy (and as long as other people have the same belief I don't have to defend myself)", sometimes in a funny, sometimes in a serious way. I had the feeling that it was easier for an ex to distance herself from me by deciding I was crazy. Otherwise they would have had to be sad. It's evading real processing I guess, or at least procrastinating it to a better fitting time.

[Rventurelli]

And another good post. I agree. I think boundaries are monumental to a relationship. I wish I was more aware of that in my teens lol

 

Likely a projection. I have had girls act weird to me after they wanted to have sex. It never made sense to me. Like, one kept going on about her sex toys which was suppose to be her green light indicator for me. I did not bite. After a glass or two of wine, she got loose lips (more then one lol). After she suggested sex, she got weird about things, and later disappeared off my radar completely. Its funny how, we men are still expected to pursue, ask out, and propose despite the nonsense about equality. Not saying women don't. Men get rejected all the time and even with sex in a LTR or marriage. Its just common place. Women are haters if rejected.

Wow! You reminded me of a similar experience I had in the past that had been erased from my consciousness:

 

One day I met this crazy woman who claimed to be a witch in a bookstore and she was with her boyfriend. She insisted in getting my phone number and invited me to have a drink. Man... I have a hard time saying no to people and, before listening to Mr. Molyneux I also was not able to hold grudges and did not have standards for my relationships, so I went out with that woman. It was interesting to hear to all her crazy stuff, but she was complete garbage: she was a single mother of a 5 year old that she never talked about and she was always working or out, so she evidently did not give a damn about him.

 

I think that the second or maybe third time that I saw her (I had no interest at all in her, she was always the one who invited me and stuff) she started taking the initiative and man, it was horrible, because at that time I had a really hard time saying "no" to people. She started saying I was connected to her from a past life and she needed me in order to realize her true power. She started trying to hug me and kiss me every time that there were no people around, put her hand in "inappropriate places" and just trying to arouse me saying how much of a slut she was, which actually make her look even more repulsive in my eyes. She mentioned she had a sex toy named "Alejandro" which she would use to pretend to be a man with other women in bed and stuff like that (you know, many, if not most men have this fetish of a three some or just watching two women engaging in homosexual acts).

 

This thing went on for months, with me showing no interest what-so-ever, never starting a conversation, never asking her out, never starting a hug, kiss or whatever. Until one day she asked to be my girlfriend and that was too much for me and I told her to fade away.

 

Not long after I had a similar experience, not with a woman claiming to be a witch, but just a very dumb and uninteresting woman that after months I finally was able to give a door slam on her as well. 

When I truly was a misogynist (now I am not), they came as if they were attracted to a magnet. Strangely, now that I am not like this anymore, I have trouble meeting them.

 

I, too, was called crazy. Often during relationships and in more than half of the cases when they ended. I was called crazy by my class mates too, though, and by a whole lot of other people, because I have always been more honest and less adapted than those around me.

 

In my experience it is a way of saying "I can't accept your point of view and I don't have to because you are crazy (and as long as other people have the same belief I don't have to defend myself)", sometimes in a funny, sometimes in a serious way. I had the feeling that it was easier for an ex to distance herself from me by deciding I was crazy. Otherwise they would have had to be sad. It's evading real processing I guess, or at least procrastinating it to a better fitting time.

If I can recall correctly, Stefan Molyneux said in one or more of his videos that if someone crazy call you crazy, either you are really crazy, or you are perfectly reasonable. Which makes total sense for me, as a crazy person cannot understand a virtuous/reasonable way of behaving, otherwise they would not be crazy.

 

Again, most people who are labelled as crazy or mentally ill, are actually not crazy or mentally ill.

[meetjoeblack]

Wow! You reminded me of a similar experience I had in the past that had been erased from my consciousness:

 

One day I met this crazy woman who claimed to be a witch in a bookstore and she was with her boyfriend. She insisted in getting my phone number and invited me to have a drink. Man... I have a hard time saying no to people and, before listening to Mr. Molyneux I also was not able to hold grudges and did not have standards for my relationships, so I went out with that woman. It was interesting to hear to all her crazy stuff, but she was complete garbage: she was a single mother of a 5 year old that she never talked about and she was always working or out, so she evidently did not give a damn about him.

 

I think that the second or maybe third time that I saw her (I had no interest at all in her, she was always the one who invited me and stuff) she started taking the initiative and man, it was horrible, because at that time I had a really hard time saying "no" to people. She started saying I was connected to her from a past life and she needed me in order to realize her true power. She started trying to hug me and kiss me every time that there were no people around, put her hand in "inappropriate places" and just trying to arouse me saying how much of a slut she was, which actually make her look even more repulsive in my eyes. She mentioned she had a sex toy named "Alejandro" which she would use to pretend to be a man with other women in bed and stuff like that (you know, many, if not most men have this fetish of a three some or just watching two women engaging in homosexual acts).

 

This thing went on for months, with me showing no interest what-so-ever, never starting a conversation, never asking her out, never starting a hug, kiss or whatever. Until one day she asked to be my girlfriend and that was too much for me and I told her to fade away.

 

Not long after I had a similar experience, not with a woman claiming to be a witch, but just a very dumb and uninteresting woman that after months I finally was able to give a door slam on her as well. 

When I truly was a misogynist (now I am not), they came as if they were attracted to a magnet. Strangely, now that I am not like this anymore, I have trouble meeting them.

 

I am working on letting go more. Reading Ecky, practice presence, here and now. It definitely is for me what Ecky refers to a pain body. I am at the point where I feel nothing after rejection, after a date disappears or someone goes no contact after sex. My buddy told me it is likely a defensive mechanism after traumas. I don't know. I just try not to dwell. The thing I notice is that, women are gifted victimhood and free reign to wallow in it. If a man calls women on awful behavior, baby killing, infidelity, cuckoldry, he is a whiner, a complainer, not man enough. Even on this board, people have did this which is ironic given that Stefan is affiliated with the manosphere directly or indirectly. Anyway, moving on...!

 

I met a woman in a book shop like you. You just kept getting up and sitting down but in an obnoxious manner. She had a dozen or so books. I couldn't help myself breaching the silence and approaching. We were practically on one another we were that close. She got kicked out of another store where her then boyfriend worked. She was very susceptible to me. She had books most of which I had all read, the subject matter I was familiar with, and I just went with it. I ended up taking her number but, I was very dismissive of her or anything more then banter. She was in a LTR. So, I refrained.

 

I had a similar experience as you with single moms before knowing about Stefan and FDR. I have been guilty as a lot of men for indulging. Many are still attractive though, their sexual market value has plummeted since children cost money, usually ages women after child birth, and the mechanics are not exactly ideal. Strange, prior to learning from Stefan, I found it odd cause, some women are very loose after kids and others not so much. I just had a lot of strange female dates, sexual experiences, and weirdness. Finding kids toys randomly in a girl's place who was young yet thin enough not to be suspicious of it. Tight too. Came over to watch a movie. Never turned it on. Just climb in her bed, fingered, she gave head, and I went home after noticing the children stuff around. Weird me out. I had the girl who recently propositioned me over coffee, started prying about if I had kids or married, relationship status. Disappeared then returned with makeup applied lol

 

Yeah. I have seen misogyny in pickup. All that, "i love you/i hate you," push pull seems to work. I know Stefan hates it and even gets condescending about it likely because he has a daughter. Then again, being beta, being a white knight, paying for dates, and placating to female entitlement has gotten men nowhere. I don't ever manipulate. I approach a lot. I date. I see who I have chemistry with. What scares me is the amount of those married who will participate, will give her number or even suggest something questionable. This scares me at times. If I bang someone in a relationship, a guy could fight or hurt me. If I bang someone unaware she is married, a man could kill me. It is nerve racking.

 

I never knew it was like this. I never knew female nature was capable of this until Stefan, until cold approach, until pickup, and going through the experiences. I sometimes feel like Cypher from Matrix wishing I could go back and get plugged in but, I know there is now going back after being red pilled. I feel like my only hope is to find a NAWALT or to red pill the shit out of a good woman with traditional values.