The girl and the hero

[Rachelle]

I've recently been considering writing something about the parent child relationship and how its internalized, and I probably still will at some point. I'm bringing it up now because I just had a very emotionally and mentally challenging day while resolving some conflicts within the family and its related to the parent child relationship. The conflicts lead me to writing something to help me get back to a place of calm because I was very distressed during this time. I'll probably expand more on it later when I'm not as drained as I am right now, but I wanted to share the short bit that I just finished writing. Just to be clear this is very much emotional writing, not an intellectual argument being made.

 

What I wrote:

 

Where there is a child, there is a parent. Where there is a girl, there is a hero. They are inseparable just as weakness and strength is found within one another. The relationship with always exist, for one cannot be born without parent and one cannot exist having not ever been a child.

 

The child and the parent. The girl and the hero. Weakness and strength. Need and resource. There is no shame in one or the other as both exist to serve one's survival. To fight one is to fight yourself. To hate one is to hate what keeps you alive. Weakness is not a passing stage in one's life but rather a companion that should never be forgotten. It is irreplaceable as one's own child and just as precious. It is a messenger that brings word of need. It gives council as to where one's focus should be and what yet must be learned. To who does it give it's message and council? It is to the parent, to the hero. It summons for the strength and resources carried within. If you accept and respect both parts of this relationship the message will be received and the summons will be heard. Where once you stumbled blindly, you will now be guided by wisdom. While before you fell, beaten by the cruelty of others you now rise, deflecting and shielded from those who would do you harm. When you are surrounded by those who are unable or unwilling to hear, you will always find a sensitive listener within. The girl needs her hero just as the hero needs the girl. Unity is the reward for those who love both.
 

[Drew.]

I found it a little hard to follow. Maybe it's 'cause you were tired when you wrote it, or maybe I am tired reading it now, some combination of the two, or potentially for entirely different reasons.

 

With "To fight one is to fight yourself" are you saying that to fight the child/parent is to fight oneself? If so, that is quite insightful, and I definitely agree with that. I try to strike the balance between adult and child. Typically, I see my inner child as the workhorse and my adult self as the manager (go child labor and enslavement!). That is not to say that this will be universal, but I see that my child self is the one with the boundless energy, and my adult self is the one who knows how to best direct and utilize it. I definitely agree with the value of weakness. It can be so unpleasant in the moment to encounter an area that we are weak in, dysfunctional, etc. But I am always so grateful to have the opportunity to learn, process, and grow, especially as the given opportunity is likely to be lower stakes than what it might be in the future. I would rather lose $1000 by pursuing a fantasy and learning from it now than lose my life savings in the future by not having had this prior negative experience to learn from. Although, I definitely might not feel that way in the moment =]

 

I felt pretty happy finishing what you wrote. It seems like this process has been very rewarding for you. I hope that it continues to be so.

[Rachelle]

I found it a little hard to follow. Maybe it's 'cause you were tired when you wrote it, or maybe I am tired reading it now, some combination of the two, or potentially for entirely different reasons.

 

With "To fight one is to fight yourself" are you saying that to fight the child/parent is to fight oneself? If so, that is quite insightful, and I definitely agree with that. I try to strike the balance between adult and child. Typically, I see my inner child as the workhorse and my adult self as the manager (go child labor and enslavement!). That is not to say that this will be universal, but I see that my child self is the one with the boundless energy, and my adult self is the one who knows how to best direct and utilize it. I definitely agree with the value of weakness. It can be so unpleasant in the moment to encounter an area that we are weak in, dysfunctional, etc. But I am always so grateful to have the opportunity to learn, process, and grow, especially as the given opportunity is likely to be lower stakes than what it might be in the future. I would rather lose $1000 by pursuing a fantasy and learning from it now than lose my life savings in the future by not having had this prior negative experience to learn from. Although, I definitely might not feel that way in the moment =]

 

I felt pretty happy finishing what you wrote. It seems like this process has been very rewarding for you. I hope that it continues to be so.

 

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, fighting the child/parent within is to fight oneself, that is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't blame you for having difficultly following my writing/thoughts, it's true I was tired while writing it but it may also hard for you to follow because of how personal the writing is/was for me, so while i can understand implicitly what I am expressing it may not be so easily understood for others. If you have any ideas how I could have made something more clear or if there's anything else you don't understand I'd be happy to hear.

 

There are a lot of roles that the inner child and parent take within, some are indeed dysfunctional (not saying yours is) and cause internal conflict. I was speaking of having a more ideal and natural relationship between the two parts, where the child would indeed be free to have boundless energy due to it realizing it's parent will be there to lend a helping hand if necessary. A more free and peaceful state within that would come from the two parts being in harmony even with their many roles and expressions because respect and love are given to both. I agree that at times it's unpleasant to encounter a weakness that stems from dysfunctional but for myself personally I've been trying to remind myself that while the dysfunctional behavior is now hurting me more than it's helping, it used to be that that very same behavior was used to protect myself from greater harm and perhaps even death internally or externally. So while it's unhelpful now, it deserves respect for being so helpful in the time when I needed it and I think by giving this part the respect earned you created a foundation necessary to negotiate with the part to change it's role and along with it's role it's dysfunctional behavior. So at first unpleasant to encounter turns into a wonderful and exciting life changing opportunity to understand oneself and work within to create a happier and peaceful inner life.

 

I'm glad you felt happy while finishing. I was sad when you said you didn't understand what I had written because it was so powerful for me and I like to be understood, but even the sadness I can learn from and instead of attacking myself for not expressing myself in a way that can be understood I can use that as information about myself to learn about why this would make me sad and how it's okay and not necessary for any kind of attack. It's also an opportunity to receive feedback in order to express myself more coherently lol. So again thank you for being honest with your experience of what I had written, it's appreciated. It was definitely rewarding for me, as I made a big step towards learning how to support myself when others either cannot or will not.

[Drew.]

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, fighting the child/parent within is to fight oneself, that is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't blame you for having difficultly following my writing/thoughts, it's true I was tired while writing it but it may also hard for you to follow because of how personal the writing is/was for me, so while i can understand implicitly what I am expressing it may not be so easily understood for others. If you have any ideas how I could have made something more clear or if there's anything else you don't understand I'd be happy to hear.

 

There are a lot of roles that the inner child and parent take within, some are indeed dysfunctional (not saying yours is) and cause internal conflict. I was speaking of having a more ideal and natural relationship between the two parts, where the child would indeed be free to have boundless energy due to it realizing it's parent will be there to lend a helping hand if necessary. A more free and peaceful state within that would come from the two parts being in harmony even with their many roles and expressions because respect and love are given to both. I agree that at times it's unpleasant to encounter a weakness that stems from dysfunctional but for myself personally I've been trying to remind myself that while the dysfunctional behavior is now hurting me more than it's helping, it used to be that that very same behavior was used to protect myself from greater harm and perhaps even death internally or externally. So while it's unhelpful now, it deserves respect for being so helpful in the time when I needed it and I think by giving this part the respect earned you created a foundation necessary to negotiate with the part to change it's role and along with it's role it's dysfunctional behavior. So at first unpleasant to encounter turns into a wonderful and exciting life changing opportunity to understand oneself and work within to create a happier and peaceful inner life.

 

I'm glad you felt happy while finishing. I was sad when you said you didn't understand what I had written because it was so powerful for me and I like to be understood, but even the sadness I can learn from and instead of attacking myself for not expressing myself in a way that can be understood I can use that as information about myself to learn about why this would make me sad and how it's okay and not necessary for any kind of attack. It's also an opportunity to receive feedback in order to express myself more coherently lol. So again thank you for being honest with your experience of what I had written, it's appreciated. It was definitely rewarding for me, as I made a big step towards learning how to support myself when others either cannot or will not.

 

For sure, our dysfunctional habits and behaviors were born out of immature attempts to resolve a problem that was too great for us. They are not parts and aspects of ourselves that are purposefully engaging in self-destruction, but they are trying to succeed and are failing.

 

As you mentioned, this seems more like personal writing that you happened to post in a public forum. Your audience was yourself, and then another audience gained access to it. The rest of your writing is very clear and direct, so what we both have suggested seems to be the most likely. It is interesting that you felt sad when I said that I had a hard time understanding. I know for me, I have sought understanding from other people. When I have done that, I have ridden on some really wild emotional roller coasters. If memory serves me right, I know that I had been taken advantage of a few times as well. Personally, I think understanding is fundamentally a need that we as adults are responsible for fulfilling ourselves, and receiving understanding from other people is temporary and therefore will never truly satisfy the need. At least, this all was my personal experience. Maybe something similar is going on for you, as you say that you have made strides in fulfilling your needs when others cannot or will not do so.

[Rachelle]

For sure, our dysfunctional habits and behaviors were born out of immature attempts to resolve a problem that was too great for us. They are not parts and aspects of ourselves that are purposefully engaging in self-destruction, but they are trying to succeed and are failing.

 

As you mentioned, this seems more like personal writing that you happened to post in a public forum. Your audience was yourself, and then another audience gained access to it. The rest of your writing is very clear and direct, so what we both have suggested seems to be the most likely. It is interesting that you felt sad when I said that I had a hard time understanding. I know for me, I have sought understanding from other people. When I have done that, I have ridden on some really wild emotional roller coasters. If memory serves me right, I know that I had been taken advantage of a few times as well. Personally, I think understanding is fundamentally a need that we as adults are responsible for fulfilling ourselves, and receiving understanding from other people is temporary and therefore will never truly satisfy the need. At least, this all was my personal experience. Maybe something similar is going on for you, as you say that you have made strides in fulfilling your needs when others cannot or will not do so.

 

I agree that we are responsible for fulfilling our need to be understood. This why I don't blame anyone for not understanding, unless of course they're purposefully trying not to. I didn't just happen to post this and an audience didn't just gain access, I shared this part of me on purpose because I was so joyful from the experience and I wanted others to appreciate and be apart of that. One of the reasons misunderstanding makes me sad is because so often the people in my life would judge negatively anyone they didn't understand. So being misunderstood was communicated as losing value and there was no appreciation or interest in self expression. I haven't quite fully understood or overcome that insecurity and at times of great vulnerability it's harder for me to separate from that part and not be afraid. It's a work in progress. I think seeking understanding from others is natural and healthy, but when you seek understanding from others and you believe their understanding determines your value...then that is a problem. One that I'm still working through.

[Drew.]

I agree that we are responsible for fulfilling our need to be understood. This why I don't blame anyone for not understanding, unless of course they're purposefully trying not to. I didn't just happen to post this and an audience didn't just gain access, I shared this part of me on purpose because I was so joyful from the experience and I wanted others to appreciate and be apart of that. One of the reasons misunderstanding makes me sad is because so often the people in my life would judge negatively anyone they didn't understand. So being misunderstood was communicated as losing value and there was no appreciation or interest in self expression. I haven't quite fully understood or overcome that insecurity and at times of great vulnerability it's harder for me to separate from that part and not be afraid. It's a work in progress. I think seeking understanding from others is natural and healthy, but when you seek understanding from others and you believe their understanding determines your value...then that is a problem. One that I'm still working through.

 

I definitely hear what you are saying. If you will forgive the, potentially unsolicited and unwanted, analysis, it very much seems like this dynamic is playing out between us now. What I said regarding the fact that you wrote it for yourself and then happened to post it here is definitely not wrong, but it wasn't the whole picture. It seems like you are putting in effort to make me understand, and if the circumstances play out, if I do not fully understand you, then I will attack you. I could be wrong about that, but that is just what I am interpreting.

[Rachelle]

I definitely hear what you are saying. If you will forgive the, potentially unsolicited and unwanted, analysis, it very much seems like this dynamic is playing out between us now. What I said regarding the fact that you wrote it for yourself and then happened to post it here is definitely not wrong, but it wasn't the whole picture. It seems like you are putting in effort to make me understand, and if the circumstances play out, if I do not fully understand you, then I will attack you. I could be wrong about that, but that is just what I am interpreting.

I'm not sure what you mean by what you said wasn't wrong. It was wrong in the sense that it didn't just happen, it was a conscious choice I made that was all I was pushing back against. I am definitely putting in effort for you to understand. I don't believe anyone will ever be able to fully understand me because they'll never be me. So I have my doubts that my goal is full understanding, but just because I have that knowledge doesn't mean I'm not going against it so perhaps you're right.

 

I do know that I am afraid of you attacking me. What kind of attack is unclear, except the words dismissive and mocking comes to mind. I have a problem where I read into things that may not be there in reality, like for instance starting to think that the person is annoyed with me or has a conceited superior mental attitude. As if they are looking down on me. Sometimes there are signs that point to this and other times I don't have enough evidence to make that claim but I will still act in preparation because I'm unsure if it's really happening or will happen soon. This is my own issue and not I'm assigning responsibility to others for this, and in fact, I'm sorry for inflicting my unjust perceptions onto you as that is not fair or kind. I very much believe this is fundamentally a fear of rejection that comes from a lot of experiences with my parents' parents where I was mocked or thought of as pitiful (bad), and not being defended from the people who did this to me. At a deeper level I think I am still unsure how to defend myself because while I may be angry or sad by the treatment and have evidence as to why it was wrong and not my fault, I don't think I've ever fully believed that I didn't/don't deserve it. I might be using others (you) as affirmation that either I am or not pitiful or deserving of mockery by sharing that which is personal or deep and waiting for a response. I believe I put myself at the mercy of others by doing this and as you said can make for an emotional roller coaster.

 

P.S. Initially I had a very difficult time considering and accepting that you might be right in your interpretation. I could tell I was defensive and scared because I thought that if I did accept what you said then you would attack me and in my mind perhaps even be justified in doing so because what I was doing was "incorrect" or "unhealthy" = I'm bad. However, after going through that and finishing my response I now feel quite a bit more relieved and not as scared as I was before.

[Drew.]

I'm not sure what you mean by what you said wasn't wrong. It was wrong in the sense that it didn't just happen, it was a conscious choice I made that was all I was pushing back against. I am definitely putting in effort for you to understand. I don't believe anyone will ever be able to fully understand me because they'll never be me. So I have my doubts that my goal is full understanding, but just because I have that knowledge doesn't mean I'm not going against it so perhaps you're right.

 

I do know that I am afraid of you attacking me. What kind of attack is unclear, except the words dismissive and mocking comes to mind. I have a problem where I read into things that may not be there in reality, like for instance starting to think that the person is annoyed with me or has a conceited superior mental attitude. As if they are looking down on me. Sometimes there are signs that point to this and other times I don't have enough evidence to make that claim but I will still act in preparation because I'm unsure if it's really happening or will happen soon. This is my own issue and not I'm assigning responsibility to others for this, and in fact, I'm sorry for inflicting my unjust perceptions onto you as that is not fair or kind. I very much believe this is fundamentally a fear of rejection that comes from a lot of experiences with my parents' parents where I was mocked or thought of as pitiful (bad), and not being defended from the people who did this to me. At a deeper level I think I am still unsure how to defend myself because while I may be angry or sad by the treatment and have evidence as to why it was wrong and not my fault, I don't think I've ever fully believed that I didn't/don't deserve it. I might be using others (you) as affirmation that either I am or not pitiful or deserving of mockery by sharing that which is personal or deep and waiting for a response. I believe I put myself at the mercy of others by doing this and as you said can make for an emotional roller coaster.

 

P.S. Initially I had a very difficult time considering and accepting that you might be right in your interpretation. I could tell I was defensive and scared because I thought that if I did accept what you said then you would attack me and in my mind perhaps even be justified in doing so because what I was doing was "incorrect" or "unhealthy" = I'm bad. However, after going through that and finishing my response I now feel quite a bit more relieved and not as scared as I was before.

 

Perhaps we use language differently. If I happen to do something, it means that I did not intentionally start out to do it, but it became intentional to complete after a threshold. If I understand correctly, you wrote that part for yourself, not intending to share it with others here on this board, but after a certain point you decided to share it. Perhaps I am wrong about that, though. As I am re-reading some of your posts, I don't see that you clearly stated that you wrote it for yourself and then decided to share it on the boards. My mistake. Maybe I falsely made the connection between how personal the writing was and the purpose of the writing being for personal purposes.

 

You are definitely assuming that you have done more harm to me than you really have. To have people inflict their unjust perceptions is part of my role as a therapist. Guaranteed, I am not your therapist. This preemptive apologizing seems like it's part of the cycle. I can't attack you if you're already prostrating yourself before me. It's a pretty effective defense, I've done it in the past and sometimes still do it--with intent--when I have the unfortunate experience of someone looking solely to inflict pain on me.

 

I definitely know what you mean. I made that association too. When I was bad, my parents punished me. If I am being punished, it must be because I have done something bad. I no longer view (correction: about 95% of the time what follows is true, and the circumstances in which I still hold the beliefs I am chipping away at) being unhealthy or incorrect as "bad" as in morally wrong and deserving of punishment. Unhealthy is unhealthy. Unhealthy is a weakness. Unhealthy is a mistake. Incorrect is a mistake. Mistakes are opportunities to grow.

[Rachelle]

Perhaps we use language differently. If I happen to do something, it means that I did not intentionally start out to do it, but it became intentional to complete after a threshold. If I understand correctly, you wrote that part for yourself, not intending to share it with others here on this board, but after a certain point you decided to share it. Perhaps I am wrong about that, though. As I am re-reading some of your posts, I don't see that you clearly stated that you wrote it for yourself and then decided to share it on the boards. My mistake. Maybe I falsely made the connection between how personal the writing was and the purpose of the writing being for personal purposes.

 

You are definitely assuming that you have done more harm to me than you really have. To have people inflict their unjust perceptions is part of my role as a therapist. Guaranteed, I am not your therapist. This preemptive apologizing seems like it's part of the cycle. I can't attack you if you're already prostrating yourself before me. It's a pretty effective defense, I've done it in the past and sometimes still do it--with intent--when I have the unfortunate experience of someone looking solely to inflict pain on me.

 

I definitely know what you mean. I made that association too. When I was bad, my parents punished me. If I am being punished, it must be because I have done something bad. I no longer view (correction: about 95% of the time what follows is true, and the circumstances in which I still hold the beliefs I am chipping away at) being unhealthy or incorrect as "bad" as in morally wrong and deserving of punishment. Unhealthy is unhealthy. Unhealthy is a weakness. Unhealthy is a mistake. Incorrect is a mistake. Mistakes are opportunities to grow.

 

Most things that I write I initially write with myself in mind then either during or after finishing I decide to share it or not. Unless of course what I am writing is like a letter/email to someone or a response to something someone said. So, yes it was for me but then I decided to share it, and all I am saying is that it was my decision, not something that just happened. The thought indeed happen to come into my mind, but I chose to act on it. In my mind I'm taking "it happened" as I had no control and there was no decision that was made, as if it was a subconscious reaction or something.

 

Perhaps I am assuming more harm than actually done. I'm not quite sure what to measure to figure out whether I am or not. It's an unpleasant experience for me when others inflict their unjust perceptions onto me, especially if they believe I have wronged them or act out in anger towards me. Even if I understand they are not really seeing me, it is still an obstacle to connection or intimacy. This is not behavior I want to exhibit, if it isn't really happening in reality then I need to be able to recognize that and act accordingly, otherwise I may hurt people as I have been hurt. This is what I was apologizing for. I may be at times quick to apologize for defensive reasons as you suggested but the reason I have given is very much in my mind and a part of why I felt the desire and thought it right to apologize. And as you said, you aren't my therapist so this behavior was not agreed upon beforehand as being understandable or acceptable in the conversation.

 

Your last paragraph resonated with me and was helpful to read. Overall this whole conversation has so far been helpful to me, even though at times it has been difficult for me.

[Drew.]

Most things that I write I initially write with myself in mind then either during or after finishing I decide to share it or not. Unless of course what I am writing is like a letter/email to someone or a response to something someone said. So, yes it was for me but then I decided to share it, and all I am saying is that it was my decision, not something that just happened. The thought indeed happen to come into my mind, but I chose to act on it. In my mind I'm taking "it happened" as I had no control and there was no decision that was made, as if it was a subconscious reaction or something.

 

Perhaps I am assuming more harm than actually done. I'm not quite sure what to measure to figure out whether I am or not. It's an unpleasant experience for me when others inflict their unjust perceptions onto me, especially if they believe I have wronged them or act out in anger towards me. Even if I understand they are not really seeing me, it is still an obstacle to connection or intimacy. This is not behavior I want to exhibit, if it isn't really happening in reality then I need to be able to recognize that and act accordingly, otherwise I may hurt people as I have been hurt. This is what I was apologizing for. I may be at times quick to apologize for defensive reasons as you suggested but the reason I have given is very much in my mind and a part of why I felt the desire and thought it right to apologize. And as you said, you aren't my therapist so this behavior was not agreed upon beforehand as being understandable or acceptable in the conversation.

 

Your last paragraph resonated with me and was helpful to read. Overall this whole conversation has so far been helpful to me, even though at times it has been difficult for me.

 

Right, okay. So there was a misunderstanding in the language that I was using. No problem.

 

I would really recommend exploring the topics of shame and punishment. I found For Your Own Good by Alice Miller to be a helpful read (and it is going to be one of the next books that I add to my book recommendation thread). Of course, it's easy to point out an area, and significantly more difficult working through it, especially if you are uncertain how to progress. I would be willing to work with you further in this, but the next steps would be really diving into this and exploring unresolved material, and the forums are not a very conducive environment for that, and I also think that such content is too personal, raw, and vulnerable to share in a public forum as well. If you take the initiative, I would be glad to work with you in a more formalized manner.

 

I never grow tired of hearing that I have thus far been able to provide something helpful. =]

[Rachelle]

Right, okay. So there was a misunderstanding in the language that I was using. No problem.

 

I would really recommend exploring the topics of shame and punishment. I found For Your Own Good by Alice Miller to be a helpful read (and it is going to be one of the next books that I add to my book recommendation thread). Of course, it's easy to point out an area, and significantly more difficult working through it, especially if you are uncertain how to progress. I would be willing to work with you further in this, but the next steps would be really diving into this and exploring unresolved material, and the forums are not a very conducive environment for that, and I also think that such content is too personal, raw, and vulnerable to share in a public forum as well. If you take the initiative, I would be glad to work with you in a more formalized manner.

 

I never grow tired of hearing that I have thus far been able to provide something helpful. =]

 

Yes, I'm sure I would benefit from exploring those topics further, and it's definitely something I intend to do. I'll look into the book recommendation. I've read The Drama of a Gifted Child by Alice Miller a couple of years ago and it had some insights that were helpful. So I imagine it's likely this other book would also have some insights. It most definitely is harder to work through something, I agree. I'm currently not looking for professional help/a therapist right now, but I will further consider your offer. I'm not sure whether or not it would be conducive to explore unresolved material on a public forum, but I don't feel comfortable doing it and do not intend to. At least not at a deeper level than I already am. Unless for some reason I believe it would be helpful, but right now I do not.

[Drew.]

Yes, I'm sure I would benefit from exploring those topics further, and it's definitely something I intend to do. I'll look into the book recommendation. I've read The Drama of a Gifted Child by Alice Miller a couple of years ago and it had some insights that were helpful. So I imagine it's likely this other book would also have some insights. It most definitely is harder to work through something, I agree. I'm currently not looking for professional help/a therapist right now, but I will further consider your offer. I'm not sure whether or not it would be conducive to explore unresolved material on a public forum, but I don't feel comfortable doing it and do not intend to. At least not at a deeper level than I already am. Unless for some reason I believe it would be helpful, but right now I do not.

 

I've been trying to think what value I got out of Drama and I am racking my brain, and I literally cannot remember what was in the book. FYoG triggered a lot of stuff in me while I was reading it, and it might provide the same benefit for you, which is why I suggested it. I definitely don't want to pressure you into pursuing therapy. That won't do anyone any good. My door will be open.

[Rachelle]

I've been trying to think what value I got out of Drama and I am racking my brain, and I literally cannot remember what was in the book. FYoG triggered a lot of stuff in me while I was reading it, and it might provide the same benefit for you, which is why I suggested it. I definitely don't want to pressure you into pursuing therapy. That won't do anyone any good. My door will be open.

 Thank you for the offer and for leaving it open, I appreciate it. I'm going to do more self-work/self-therapy and exploration on my own until I feel more comfortable or believe it will be better for me to seek assistance in this area. It is something I continue to explore within myself as to why there might be hesitation and what I believe would be best for me. You'll be in my thoughts and if I change my mind then I will let you know.

[Siegfried von Walheim]

I've recently been considering writing something about the parent child relationship and how its internalized, and I probably still will at some point. I'm bringing it up now because I just had a very emotionally and mentally challenging day while resolving some conflicts within the family and its related to the parent child relationship. The conflicts lead me to writing something to help me get back to a place of calm because I was very distressed during this time. I'll probably expand more on it later when I'm not as drained as I am right now, but I wanted to share the short bit that I just finished writing. Just to be clear this is very much emotional writing, not an intellectual argument being made.

 

What I wrote:

 

Where there is a child, there is a parent. Where there is a girl, there is a hero. They are inseparable just as weakness and strength is found within one another. The relationship with always exist, for one cannot be born without parent and one cannot exist having not ever been a child.

 

The child and the parent. The girl and the hero. Weakness and strength. Need and resource. There is no shame in one or the other as both exist to serve one's survival. To fight one is to fight yourself. To hate one is to hate what keeps you alive. Weakness is not a passing stage in one's life but rather a companion that should never be forgotten. It is irreplaceable as one's own child and just as precious. It is a messenger that brings word of need. It gives council as to where one's focus should be and what yet must be learned. To who does it give it's message and council? It is to the parent, to the hero. It summons for the strength and resources carried within. If you accept and respect both parts of this relationship the message will be received and the summons will be heard. Where once you stumbled blindly, you will now be guided by wisdom. While before you fell, beaten by the cruelty of others you now rise, deflecting and shielded from those who would do you harm. When you are surrounded by those who are unable or unwilling to hear, you will always find a sensitive listener within. The girl needs her hero just as the hero needs the girl. Unity is the reward for those who love both.

 

 

An interesting preposition. Needs a bit of grammar checking though. 

 

Not a fan of the second-persons/third-person mix though, as it tends create a mixed association and disassociation, like walking into a room where the speaker suddenly points you out and attempts to characterize you but then suddenly shifts back to his archetype of what kind of dynamic he was originally speaking of. For the finished product, I would recommend sticking to either first person or third person, this way there is a stronger consistency in that either the reader can slowly identify himself with the protagonist by reading her thoughts and feelings "in real time", or from third person watching objectively what is happening and perhaps coming to the philosophical proposition of the "Hero and the Girl" (Or perhaps more generally, the Worker and the Driver, in that one accumulates resources while the other directs where best the resources may be allocated, or, is the main driver for the acquisition of resources. Although if the latter dynamic, wherein one is dependent on the other but gives the other a satisfactory incentive (i.e., love, moral gratification, conversation, future prospects of independence, etc.), then Father-Daughter/Father-Son or Hero/Maiden is actually a very good analogy).

 

 

It reminds me of the so-called burden of being a parent, or a spouse. My expectation is that your intent is to dispel the myth that being a parent or spouse is inherently a burden, rather for it to be a burden either you (as a spouse) have bad judgement/lack of boundaries, or are abusive/negligent (as a parent). Otherwise it is the ultimate joy to both create and sustain life, watching it soar higher than the prior generation could even dream of.

[Rachelle]

An interesting preposition. Needs a bit of grammar checking though. 

 

Not a fan of the second-persons/third-person mix though, as it tends create a mixed association and disassociation, like walking into a room where the speaker suddenly points you out and attempts to characterize you but then suddenly shifts back to his archetype of what kind of dynamic he was originally speaking of. For the finished product, I would recommend sticking to either first person or third person, this way there is a stronger consistency in that either the reader can slowly identify himself with the protagonist by reading her thoughts and feelings "in real time", or from third person watching objectively what is happening and perhaps coming to the philosophical proposition of the "Hero and the Girl" (Or perhaps more generally, the Worker and the Driver, in that one accumulates resources while the other directs where best the resources may be allocated, or, is the main driver for the acquisition of resources. Although if the latter dynamic, wherein one is dependent on the other but gives the other a satisfactory incentive (i.e., love, moral gratification, conversation, future prospects of independence, etc.), then Father-Daughter/Father-Son or Hero/Maiden is actually a very good analogy).

 

 

It reminds me of the so-called burden of being a parent, or a spouse. My expectation is that your intent is to dispel the myth that being a parent or spouse is inherently a burden, rather for it to be a burden either you (as a spouse) have bad judgement/lack of boundaries, or are abusive/negligent (as a parent). Otherwise it is the ultimate joy to both create and sustain life, watching it soar higher than the prior generation could even dream of.

 

Lol thanks, I didn't edit what I had written before sending it.

 

That's very interesting feedback and makes a lot of sense to me. I'll keep it in mind if I ever write with other people more in mind. I had myself in mind and the confusion from the mix of different characterizations reflects how mixed it was in my mind at the time and the effort put into understanding what each of these characterizations have in common and what they mean to me. My internal parent and child parts have many roles and expressions. So I can see how this would be confusing to write multiple out and for others to read, but in my mind it was for the purpose of exploring their common characteristics.

 

My main goal was to aid myself in understanding that my inner child is not a burden. I shared it for reasons previously stated but also because I thought I may get differing perspectives or perhaps people would offer me some insights. I do appreciate the advice on how better to write/communicate as this is definitely important as well. I certainly won't get differing perspectives or insights if no one understands the content of my writing.

[Siegfried von Walheim]

Lol thanks, I didn't edit what I had written before sending it.

 

That's very interesting feedback and makes a lot of sense to me. I'll keep it in mind if I ever write with other people more in mind. I had myself in mind and the confusion from the mix of different characterizations reflects how mixed it was in my mind at the time and the effort put into understanding what each of these characterizations have in common and what they mean to me. My internal parent and child parts have many roles and expressions. So I can see how this would be confusing to write multiple out and for others to read but in my mind it was for the purpose of exploring their common characteristics.

 

My main goal was to aid myself in understanding that my inner child is not a burden.

 

The last thing you said reminded me of Stef once saying something like: Adults are broken children, not children are broken adults. Certainly seems to make sense given both the anecdotes he shares and my own personal experience. While I was ignorant as a child I was not blinded by anything. I could call a spade a spade without hesitation and recognize peers who intended harm from those who intended to be helpful. While a child can be fooled, it seems less likely for a child to be fool than for your average "numale" or "faux-man". And of course less likely to be blinded by mob mentality. However I could be reading more into the clarity of childhood than there actually is.

 

From a writer's perspective, you must be willing to commit. No "I may write this someday", it must be "I will start today and aim to write at least a little every day and have a finished product within 90 days to a year (depending on the predicted size and scope of the product)".  Also, it helps to consume that which gives us a perspective on the lives of others. I purposely kept that vague because while books help, it is mainly because the best novels tend to give you a compelling perspective to follow, often with deeper philosophical themes. Movies, games, anime, etc. can often reproduce this benefit, though usually in different forms. Your typical RPG, particularly JRPGs, thrust you directly into the shoes of another person, and I suspect that children who play games, specifically games where the player must play a specific role easily analogized to the real world, have more empathy than those who do not play those games. Likewise reading for children has a similar affect: it gives them the opportunity to see things from another perspective. I am not certain which format is superior in teaching empathy, or driving moral/philosophical points across (my assumption would be books for the former, games for the latter), but I am fairly certain they do give another perspective.

 

The trick is making that perspective relatable and interesting. 

 

Therefore, using the inner-child as the overarching theme, a good premise might be a single father whose wife died young, and struggles to raise his kids because he lost sight of what it means to be a kid and only sees the superficialities of it. At the same time you write from the perspective of the children, and through these two general perspectives only your imagination limits how themes and values can be delivered. 

 

And also, good advice I heard from either George R.R. Martin or Steven King was to write firstly for yourself. Imagine you are your own audience. Not a bad place to start, because we do not all have the same values or perspectives, we are often similar enough and for bridges to be built between us. I personally like to read over what I've written after I've written something to see if it comes off how I intended, or if it is clear and forthright (intentionally, if I aim to be), or vague and ambiguous (unintentionally, If I aimed for clarity).

 

Of course, I am an 18 year old fresh out of high school, albeit one who has written as a hobby since he was 11 or 12, and professionally since 16-17. So take what I say with a few grains of salt since I could be completely wrong, or only partially right.

 

And P.S. It helps to be grammatically correct but simple and casual enough that a high schooler could read and understand. While I like to poke at mistakes here and there, slang and dialectical idioms are not mistakes if used appropriately. Like is a character is meant to be dumb or "unpolished", then it would make sense for his first-person narrative to not be too much more "sophisticated" than his dialogue as a character, as unless the purpose is meant to contrast who he becomes versus how he starts off, there shouldn't be a radical difference from the first-person past-tense and the first-persons present-tense in terms of diction and dialect.

[Troubador]

As a piece of creative writing it works for me as a meditation on understanding and self knowledge. Specifically on the correct application of the parent/child relationship both in terms of those literal relationships as well as to the individual's inner psyche.

 

The meaning I derived from it takes the child who is vulnerable, innocent and childish paired with the adult traits of protective, experienced and wise. The crucial axis by which this resolves is through love and understanding, as opposed to fear and ignorance.

 

Applied to both a real child as well as our inner children this dynamic is crucial, if one just obeys parental dictates without being taught the why, and especially if done born out of fear rather than love we develop these fierce inner critics that are unable to progress past telling us we are wrong without being able to suggest meaningful avenues to self correct and improve.

 

Am I at all close?

[Rachelle]

As a piece of creative writing it works for me as a meditation on understanding and self knowledge. Specifically on the correct application of the parent/child relationship both in terms of those literal relationships as well as to the individual's inner psyche.

 

The meaning I derived from it takes the child who is vulnerable, innocent and childish paired with the adult traits of protective, experienced and wise. The crucial axis by which this resolves is through love and understanding, as opposed to fear and ignorance.

 

Applied to both a real child as well as our inner children this dynamic is crucial, if one just obeys parental dictates without being taught the why, and especially if done born out of fear rather than love we develop these fierce inner critics that are unable to progress past telling us we are wrong without being able to suggest meaningful avenues to self correct and improve.

 

Am I at all close?

 

Yes, that was exactly what I was writing about and exploring for myself in a very emotionally intense way. You said it very well. It made me smile and was enjoyable for me to read. It's nice to know that it was understandable to you even if difficult to parse. Thank you for taking the time =).

 

The subject you stated so clearly is one I'm continuing to explore, and with the conversation I had with Drew about shame and fear of punishment, I'm making some exciting progress. So I'm very happy to have posted this on the forum.

From a writer's perspective, you must be willing to commit. No "I may write this someday", it must be "I will start today and aim to write at least a little every day and have a finished product within 90 days to a year (depending on the predicted size and scope of the product)".  Also, it helps to consume that which gives us a perspective on the lives of others. I purposely kept that vague because while books help, it is mainly because the best novels tend to give you a compelling perspective to follow, often with deeper philosophical themes. Movies, games, anime, etc. can often reproduce this benefit, though usually in different forms. Your typical RPG, particularly JRPGs, thrust you directly into the shoes of another person, and I suspect that children who play games, specifically games where the player must play a specific role easily analogized to the real world, have more empathy than those who do not play those games. Likewise reading for children has a similar affect: it gives them the opportunity to see things from another perspective. I am not certain which format is superior in teaching empathy, or driving moral/philosophical points across (my assumption would be books for the former, games for the latter), but I am fairly certain they do give another perspective.

 

The trick is making that perspective relatable and interesting. 

 

Therefore, using the inner-child as the overarching theme, a good premise might be a single father whose wife died young, and struggles to raise his kids because he lost sight of what it means to be a kid and only sees the superficialities of it. At the same time you write from the perspective of the children, and through these two general perspectives only your imagination limits how themes and values can be delivered. 

 

And also, good advice I heard from either George R.R. Martin or Steven King was to write firstly for yourself. Imagine you are your own audience. Not a bad place to start, because we do not all have the same values or perspectives, we are often similar enough and for bridges to be built between us. I personally like to read over what I've written after I've written something to see if it comes off how I intended, or if it is clear and forthright (intentionally, if I aim to be), or vague and ambiguous (unintentionally, If I aimed for clarity).

 

Of course, I am an 18 year old fresh out of high school, albeit one who has written as a hobby since he was 11 or 12, and professionally since 16-17. So take what I say with a few grains of salt since I could be completely wrong, or only partially right.

 

And P.S. It helps to be grammatically correct but simple and casual enough that a high schooler could read and understand. While I like to poke at mistakes here and there, slang and dialectical idioms are not mistakes if used appropriately. Like is a character is meant to be dumb or "unpolished", then it would make sense for his first-person narrative to not be too much more "sophisticated" than his dialogue as a character, as unless the purpose is meant to contrast who he becomes versus how he starts off, there shouldn't be a radical difference from the first-person past-tense and the first-persons present-tense in terms of diction and dialect.

 

I think that you have good advice and would be more helpful if I was intending on writing professionally but that is not a decision I have ever made, but perhaps in the future as I do enjoy writing. What I had written was not professional quality, nor do I believe it necessary to be. I'm not sure if you were suggesting that everything I write I should write with a professional mentality but if so that does not appeal to me. However, I am actually quite interested in some of the ideas you had about empathy, vid games, and books. I'm also interested in some of the writing advice you have given, and your experience with writing, including your motivation for doing it. Perhaps we could have a private conversation sometime to discuss these things and maybe you could even share some of your writing. I think that would be cool.