availuu89 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 First of all, I apologize for not being well informed on the legal requirements for consent when it comes to circumcision. It is my understanding that only one parent is required to consent to the procedure, typically the mother. That being said, a friend of mine was recently persuaded by her husband to consent to circumcision for their newborn son. After several months of arguing and debating the morality and ethics of the barbaric procedure, she caved into his request. I'm not certain why he was so persistent, however I know that it resulted in a bargaining situation- in exchange for her consent he agreed to quit smoking. In other words, she traded an ounce of her son's flesh for a lifestyle change agreement that would potentially benefit the entire family. She continues to regret the decision, now with the weight of her choice pressing down on her conscious. I believe that she's comforting herself by shoveling the blame of her decision towards her husband, and the "at least" factor of their abhorrent deal making. However, the bottom line is that she is responsible for her decision. She is a well educated woman, who knew both in her gut and in her brain that it was a terrible idea. A couple of the questions this incident has made me consider: What are the consequences of sacrificing one's sense of integrity for another's pleasure? Why would someone do that? Should both parent's be required to consent to circumcision? Should the mother have the ultimate authority over circumcision? What advice can I give her to help her gain something out of this awful experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertus Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 What are the consequences of sacrificing one's sense of integrity for another's pleasure? She has to live with herself, being an abusive parent and all that comes with it. This sets the precedent and I'm sure this isn't going to be the only time. Why would someone do that? She was acting according to her own value system. She values her husband's health higher than her son's. Should both parent's be required to consent to circumcision? Should both rapists be required to consent to a group rape? Circumcision should only be performed in case of proven, documented medical necessity. Should the mother have the ultimate authority over circumcision? Yes, if you're talking about circumcising the mother's genitals, yes. Cutting a healthy baby's genitals on the other hand, for any reason besided medical, should be considered the crime that it is. What advice can I give her to help her gain something out of this awful experience? She already gained something. She got a promise out of her man, which she valued higher than her son's bodily integrity.What is their rationale? Is it aesthetics or a religious ritual? Do they know of the possible health risks? Or are they blinded by the stupid idea that their son is going to be too dumb to pull back his foreskin and wash it? Has this already happened? Is there a way to stop it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueOfBrevity Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 What about the consent of the person getting their genitals mutilated?My observation is that people do not rely on solid moral principles for their decisions.Instead, they see how they "feel" about it.Circumcision is socially accepted, so they don't "feel" immoral in accepting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kikker Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 What are the consequences of sacrificing one's sense of integrity for another's pleasure? Depends on the interpretation by the person doing it, it could lead to her giving up her morality like a child giving up a study subject after failing a test. On the other hand a person could strengthen their resolves to abide by their own value system despite other people pressuring her. Why would someone do that? In this case are multiple possibilities, the lack of desire to abide by her own morals, desire to keep peace in the relationship, fear of her husband, desire to harm the baby and the desire to stop her husband from engaging in unhealthy behavior. Should both parent's be required to consent to circumcision? Until the elective procedure is illegal, yes. Should the mother have the ultimate authority over circumcision? No. What advice can I give her to help her gain something out of this awful experience? Realize that this wasn't a "fluke" or an "exception" because that is just the lazy way out to avoid the implications of someones actions. The situation she is in is the logical consequence of her and her environment interacting at that time, if she wants a different outcome the next time she needs to change. Furthermore I want to stress that even though circumcision is harmful in general and very undesirable it is not the end of the world. Most likely the child will get circumcised without permanent harm and there are worse things people do to their baby. Point being that if you want to reflect on something you need to realize exactly what happened without exaggerating your mistakes or things you actually did right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
availuu89 Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Kikker- I'm not so involved that I know exactly why they chose to do this. The mother was well informed and morally against the procedure up until she made the deal with her husband. Neither of them are religious. As far as I know, he wanted his son to look like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Thank you for your investment of time in helping to drive this conversation forward. It's very important. Of course we're talking about a symptom here. The actual problem is that two people who are lacking in the self-knowledge department it would seem chose to have a child together before properly preparing for it. This is a deal-breaker for me. ANYBODY that would sexually assault my future son will NOT be in his life. availuu89, one of the things that wasn't mentioned is that the mother and the father simply don't have the right. It's not their dick. If the kid wants to mutilate himself, that's for him to decide. They have voluntarily chosen to create an obligation to their son to nurture and protect him until such a time as he is capable to do so without them. This means delivering his adult self an as-intact and loved body as possible. It was a fool's bargain to begin with. If he lacks the self-knowledge to protect his son and choose a mate that would protect his son, he still carries the effects of the trauma that leads to him smoking anyways. He will be powerless to quit. Just as once his child is sexually assaulted in a very physically permanent way, he will be powerless to reverse that decision also. Finally, a little projection if I may. Either his son is going to be subjugated to be a mindless zombie, or he's going to be a free thinker, who will choose a virtuous mate, and he will experience INTENSE anger knowing that amid the beautiful life they have built together, his sexual abusers will be right in the middle of their bed EVERY NIGHT. Hope for the father's sake that he's not within arm's reach when his on figures THAT one out > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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