"...men just aggressively don't want to be invested in a woman's narrative and it's really gross."

[availuu89]

One of the biggest questions I've been receiving from my male friends regarding feminism generally sounds something like this, "What do feminists want?" First and foremost, I am not a feminist, I am not an expert on their movement or their studies. However, I do have several associates that I've passively been Facebook stalking for several years and occasionally engage in conversation.  Man or woman, this question is very difficult to answer. Feminists that I know tend to start conversations or approach a topic from a position of defensive rage. The meme below represents one of the current hot topic issues of modern feminism. I will attempt to translate this accusation/desire of the modern feminist:

 

I am angry because men don't like what my gender has to offer in the entertainment industry. Men are not interested in strong female roles, and this is a problem because it means that men do not sympathize with the struggle of women. Men only care about the leadership of other men. Men insult female actors who portray leadership roles by accusing them of "pandering sjw bulllshit." This means men are gross.

 

Alright you guys, I'm going to go ahead an apologize.. I know this topic is vapid and annoying. I guess what I'm attempting to do is dissect this trash down and gain some additional perspective on the visceral and intellectual response of males.  This may seem far fetched, but eventually I would like to try and reach out to some misguided youth with reason, logic, and perspective. 

 

I have a 4 year old son, and two twin daughters on the way. I don't want them to get sucked into this culture. I want to learn how to communicate honestly in the most non-offensive way so that the seeds of rationality are implanted in the minds of the impressionable. Thank you guys in advance for your time.

 

[Somewhere]

I'm no expert on the genre (I could never handle the pink cards in Trivial Pursuit) but my first reaction is, it's far from universally true. Charlie's Angels, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Kill Bill? So maybe the other shows really weren't so good? Films with male leads also flop. One criticism of Ghostbusters was that all the male characters were stupid or evil, with Bill Murray's character being thrown out of a window; how would your feminist acquaintance have reacted to a film in which all female characters were stupid or evil and a woman was thrown out of a window, and would her reaction also be "really gross"?

[Frosty]

My suspicion is that most of the people in these movements have themselves experienced something horribly negative about men, I watch videos online of feminists trying to hold it together when people from the mens rights movement try and engage in honest dialogue with them but it erupts into emotion and before you know it you'll get pretty much a straight up confession that they were raped or sexually assaulted. There's a reason why most of these people are passionately following social movements, it's why they all look the same as well, glowing colorful hair, face full of piercings or alternative looks, you can spot them a mile off, it's that kind of rebellious "i can do whatever I want" attitude.

 

So you have to really think carefully before going to debate these kinds of people and be realistic what to expect from them, you won't find much intellectual honesty or arguments based on evidence, as you said, a lot of it tends to start from a position of defensive rage.

 

More specifically to address this particular feminist, one thing you have to understand is that often their entire world view is different from most rational people and understanding the difference is a short cut to getting right down where you disagree. A lot of feminists deny there is any difference between men and women, that sex organs are all that is different and all other differences observed are due to social pressures and not inherent to biology. They can't understand that men think differently to women and broadly have different preferences/tastes, this sounds insane to most reasonable people but it's true that a lot of feminists are like this and it's why we see their ideology push for things like 50/50 representation in jobs, because they'll credit lack of women in computing down to the patriarchy before they'll acknowledge that testosterone in boys creates different preferences in the work place.

 

To argue/convince these people you'd need to deconstruct so much about their world view and replace with truth, that they're basically a lost cause. Once they've gone too far down that rabbit hole nothing is going to convincingly correct their world view, it's too much false information crammed in there.

 

Best way to help your children avoid this kind of nonsense is to teach them the benefits of science, reason and evidence. Understanding the scientific method is key, demanding that assertions are backed by rationality, learning formal logic and structure of formal propositions as well as learning how to spot logical fallacies, all this is great stuff which will inoculate them from this kind of devastatingly irrational thinking.

[LancierDombre]

I'm no expert on the genre (I could never handle the pink cards in Trivial Pursuit) but my first reaction is, it's far from universally true. Charlie's Angels, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Kill Bill? So maybe the other shows really weren't so good? Films with male leads also flop. One criticism of Ghostbusters was that all the male characters were stupid or evil, with Bill Murray's character being thrown out of a window; how would your feminist acquaintance have reacted to a film in which all female characters were stupid or evil and a woman was thrown out of a window, and would her reaction also be "really gross"?

 

Or alternatively, how would women react to a movie in which men were not only shown as being good at their traditional gender roles of provider and protector, but also superior nurturers and better with children than all of the women?  How about a movie portraying a society consisting entirely of men as a paradise?  Both of which are not-uncommon tropes of the entertainment industry these days.

[The Underthinker]

Although to be clear: it's not most feminists who have experienced horrible things, in my experience. Far higher than compared to average population, but nowhere near 50% of feminists.

My suspicion is that most of the people in these movements have themselves experienced something horribly negative about men.

Bingo!

 

Women's shelters are prime breeding ground for feminism. Together with universities and feminist media (laci green on mtv etc) they wre the places where women and girls are introduced to feminism.

 

Here's an interview with the woman who started the world's first women's shelter and how the project was infiltrated, coopted and stolen by anti-male feminists.

 

The original women's shelters had men working there, which was vital for some of the women who had never had a simple positive relationship towards a male.

 

Of course no good think lasts forever.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dj8883DryKA

[David Ottinger]

This is not a logical quarrel, so there is no reasoning with her because any attempts to reason with her will serve as a denial of her feelings thereby exacerbating her sense of abandonment.  She feels what she feels.  There is no changing that.  Instead, you have to accept it.  Hell, I doubt the content she's even focusing on matters.  It's just a metaphor for her abandonment issues. 

 

 

"you know what's really genuinely unsettling? the degree to which men fucking do not want to sympathize with/be interested in women."

 

Translation:  Men do not want to sympathize with me and my struggles. i.e. Men are incapable of loving me.

 

 

 

I'm not going to type out the whole thing.  So, 2nd paragraph translation:

 

Look at all these characters I identify with, and men do not care, and worse, men are incapable of being moved by female tenacity.  They have no respect for female struggles, and thus strengths.  Men will never be able to value me.

 

 

And 3rd paragraph:

 

Men do not want to connect with me emotionally.  They just want to dominate me and be done with me.  It makes me feel worthless.

 

 

 

 

Anyone who seeks validation from others like this is dealing with unprocessed trauma.  They're projecting that on events that remind them of that trauma.  In this particular case, we're dealing with rejection/abandonment issues.

 

 

I'm no psychologist or anything along those lines.  So, take it for the arm chair opinions that this is.    

 

[dsayers]

Thank you very much for the ways in which you choose to protect your children from this vitriol and in turn, striving to save the world

 

First off, I just wanted to address the titular nonsense. Namely that aggressive is a description of a behavior while NOT investing in something is the opposite of a behavior. So right away, the author of the meme'd post is telling you this is an emotional response, not a reasoned one.

 

Secondly, many if not most movies are works of fiction. They are things people consume for the sake of entertainment. If I think a movie is going to be preachy, I WILL try to avoid it. Regardless of what's being preached. It's not a disdain for the message being pushed, but rather the contamination of my entertainment option.

 

Finally, the very premise is self-detonating. It's ostracizing people for ostracizing people. Oops, Suzie!

 

Shifting gears to address your post, I wanted to share that I personally do not care what a self-proclaimed feminist wants. The verbiage tells you that equality is NOT the goal. Even if there was a rights disparity and the movement only set out for equality, the pendulum swung way the other way. There are a number of strong females (the very role models feminists claim to want for equality's sake) who have spoken out against feminism. Even to the point of addressing the very term as I have here.

 

There's only one way to meaningfully divide people: Those who are willing to initiate the use of force to achieve their goals and those who will not. ALL other divisions of otherwise reasonable folks only serves to allow for the former to continue to get away with it. If so-called feminists would put that energy into revealing that NO human can exist in a different, opposing moral category, we could end the State and us upstanding, virtuous men would make sure that our sisters are cared for and treated for the equals that they are.

 

Besides that, there are very real ways in which men and women ARE different. And I don't know about the rest of the heterosexuals, but I LOVE that. Look at all we have created as a species, all of which is predicated on the genders working together!

[jill m.]

"There's only one way to meaningfully divide people: Those who are willing to initiate the use of force to achieve their goals and those who will not. ALL other divisions of otherwise reasonable folks only serves to allow for the former to continue to get away with it."

 

Yes, Thank you!!  Exactly.  Extremely well said.

 

[Iron Horse]

I am angry because men don't like what my gender has to offer in the entertainment industry. Men are not interested in strong female roles, and this is a problem because it means that men do not sympathize with the struggle of women. Men only care about the leadership of other men. Men insult female actors who portray leadership roles by accusing them of "pandering sjw bulllshit." This means men are gross.

 

This is false.  The average man on the street does not care if you are man or woman, only that you present the qualifications needed to do the job in question.  The fact that she is a woman has very little to do with it and there is the problem, it is not that we do not care what gender you are, but in the average working man's eyes gender does not equal anything at all but you seem to think it does.

 

You mentioned the entertainment industry, why?  Because of the hilarious pandering failed PR campaign of Ghostbusters?  Did you forget about some of the most enjoyable female leads in the industry?  Ripley from Alien, Clarice from Silence of the Lambs?  There is no problem in making a remake of a movie and putting a twist on it but when it is shoehorned in to a long standing franchise in order to profit from the social movement of the day it becomes transparent.  Had they dropped the whole campaign of feminism behind Ghostbusters I daresay it may of done far better at the box office.

[rosencrantz]

Ellen Ripley would like to have a word with you.