How to avoid the temptation of meaningless sex ?

[bzalinski]

Hello everyone,

 

As some of you might know from the chat-sessions, I broke up with my girlfriend 2 months ago.

 

It is mostly Stephan's work that made me realize that my relationship existed for the wrong reasons and that it was beyond salvageable. I have no love for myself, therefore I could not love someone else. 

 

I also decided that it was time to break the vicious circle of bad life choices before it would destroy me completely. 

 

I know that most of the poor decisions I made in life are directly related to abuse from the past. Because of this, I developed self-destructive behaviour that was most noticeable in my choice of partners. I've had many relationships that started for the wrong reasons. In those relationships, I had a lack of integrity ( mostly towards myself ), love and purpose. I would sleep with any women that wanted to open her legs for me and would then form a relationship with them. I connected with those women because having sex with them made me believe that I was being loved. I also convinced myself that I loved them. Most of them turned out to be abusers that reminded me of my mother. I turned out to be a spineless pretender that would angrily *rebel* against them towards the end, blaming them for my own mistakes. 

 

In the last two months, I decided that things have to change. I accepted that I need therapy and I found a potential therapist yesterday. I'm also keeping a diary, although I don't know if I use it for the right purpose.

 

After reading most of Stephan's books and after listening to allot of his podcasts, I learned that virtue and self-knowledge are essential to happiness in life. 

 

I'm making progress when it comes to self-knowledge and analyzing the root-cause of many problems I have. I know what my missions should be and I know which virtues ought to be pursued. I know that I won't have any relationship before I'm actually ready. It is impossible to date a virtuous woman if I'm not being virtuous myself. 

 

The problem I encounter nowadays is that the path to recovery is long and filled with all kinds of temptations. 

 

The one temptation I'm having trouble with is sex. I constantly try to convince myself that I need it. I know that sex should be saved for virtuous women but I also know that it will take a long time before I am ready to date again. I'm having all the trouble of the world in resisting the urge to sleep with women that I find attractive or that give me enough attention. The idea of not having sex for a long period of time disturbs me. I try to convince myself that while working on myself, having meaningless sex on the side could be ok, as long as I'm honest about it.

 

I know that this reveals even more problems and character flaws in me. This urge teaches me that I'm still needy, emotionally compulsive and that I have no integrity or self-love. 

 

Where to start ? 

 

Will the urge for sex naturally disappear if I truly start working on my virtues instead of just pretending ?

 

Should meaningless sex be avoided at all cost ?

[KeepOnGoing]

Why not to try intensive therapy? Few hours per week? Therapy is a great idea and especially when you are in need for change its good to have appointments very often at the beginning. It's hard but nothing bad last forever. It's possible to fix it you just need to put a lot of effort in it. The defense mechanisms might get overwhelming sometimes at the beginning of the therapy but it's possible to survive it. Edit: btw. Where do you usually meet these girls? Maybe it's a good idea to avoid these places?

[Drew.]

I know that most of the poor decisions I made in life are directly related to abuse from the past. Because of this, I developed self-destructive behaviour that was most noticeable in my choice of partners. I've had many relationships that started for the wrong reasons. In those relationships, I had a lack of integrity ( mostly towards myself ), love and purpose. I would sleep with any women that wanted to open her legs for me and would then form a relationship with them. I connected with those women because having sex with them made me believe that I was being loved. I also convinced myself that I loved them. Most of them turned out to be abusers that reminded me of my mother. I turned out to be a spineless pretender that would angrily *rebel* against them towards the end, blaming them for my own mistakes. 

 

In the last two months, I decided that things have to change. I accepted that I need therapy and I found a potential therapist yesterday. I'm also keeping a diary, although I don't know if I use it for the right purpose.

 

After reading most of Stephan's books and after listening to allot of his podcasts, I learned that virtue and self-knowledge are essential to happiness in life. 

 

I'm making progress when it comes to self-knowledge and analyzing the root-cause of many problems I have. I know what my missions should be and I know which virtues ought to be pursued. I know that I won't have any relationship before I'm actually ready. It is impossible to date a virtuous woman if I'm not being virtuous myself. 

 

The problem I encounter nowadays is that the path to recovery is long and filled with all kinds of temptations. 

 

The one temptation I'm having trouble with is sex. I constantly try to convince myself that I need it. I know that sex should be saved for virtuous women but I also know that it will take a long time before I am ready to date again. I'm having all the trouble of the world in resisting the urge to sleep with women that I find attractive or that give me enough attention. The idea of not having sex for a long period of time disturbs me. I try to convince myself that while working on myself, having meaningless sex on the side could be ok, as long as I'm honest about it.

 

I know that this reveals even more problems and character flaws in me. This urge teaches me that I'm still needy, emotionally compulsive and that I have no integrity or self-love. 

 

Where to start ? 

 

Will the urge for sex naturally disappear if I truly start working on my virtues instead of just pretending ?

 

Should meaningless sex be avoided at all cost ?

 

I hold this perspective, and I have found it to be tremendously useful in the therapeutic process: there are no self-destructive habits or behaviors, nothing we do is fundamentally an attempt to destroy ourselves, these things are simply a misguided attempt to help us get what we need.

 

Sex feels good. Sex is often a coping mechanism. When we feel bad, then for so many of us we turn to something to make ourselves feel better. My guess is that due to your history, you feel bad about yourself all of the time, unless if you are distracting yourself. It was that way for me, at the very least. I don't think that there is a direct route to reducing how much one uses coping mechanisms like this, the best way to reduce them is to explore how you are still hurting and resolve it.

[mgggb]

There's nothing immoral about having meaningless sex, just realize that it's only glorified masturbation to have sex with a woman you do not love. Is normal masturbation not an option? Why are virtuous women not attracted to you and/or vice versa? When was the last time you were single and for how long?

[bzalinski]

Why not to try intensive therapy? Few hours per week? Therapy is a great idea and especially when you are in need for change its good to have appointments very often at the beginning. It's hard but nothing bad last forever. It's possible to fix it you just need to put a lot of effort in it. The defense mechanisms might get overwhelming sometimes at the beginning of the therapy but it's possible to survive it. Edit: btw. Where do you usually meet these girls? Maybe it's a good idea to avoid these places?

 

Hey thanks for your response. I found two therapists of interest and I hope that I'll be able to start my therapy pretty soon. I've done some self-therapy the last few months with a diary and with allot of introspection. However, I might do it the wrong way. But I think that the things I found out about myself during self-therapy might be useful at the start of my therapy. 

 

About the girls I've met in the past: I've never had a one-night stand and always went into a relationship with the women I slept with. Those lasted a year on average. I started those relationships for the wrong reasons ( physical attraction ) and disregarded any personal preferences I had ( low self-esteem ). I've never raised the bar very high and usually slept with any woman willing to do so with me. I've met most of them at parties and I've met one on Tinder. Since my last break-up, I avoid meeting women in places that lead towards shallow emotional contact.

 

Actually, I'm more into conversation but I never used this to my advantage. I could have taken my time to get to know nice and virtuous women but I put too much emphasis on sexual attraction. I also knew that through conversation, many women would be revealed as poor girlfriend material. Instead of having the balls to reject those women based on what I knew deep inside, I'd go for them regardless of that knowledge, thinking that I could not get any better or that I had nothing else to offer. 

 

My reasoning might be flawed, I probably have allot of blind spots and there must be some other *unpleasant* truths about my dating patterns. That's why I want to go on therapy. I want a quality life for myself and others, and I strongly believe that it is now time to work on virtues that I didn't posses in the past. 

 

I don't know if it's that easy tough. Some things cannot be undone and define me as I am. But I also know that I don't *have* to stay like this. 

 

Ps: I grew up in a dysfunctional environment, raised by a single mom, and a lack of virtue has been the example around me all my life. 

I hold this perspective, and I have found it to be tremendously useful in the therapeutic process: there are no self-destructive habits or behaviors, nothing we do is fundamentally an attempt to destroy ourselves, these things are simply a misguided attempt to help us get what we need.

 

Sex feels good. Sex is often a coping mechanism. When we feel bad, then for so many of us we turn to something to make ourselves feel better. My guess is that due to your history, you feel bad about yourself all of the time, unless if you are distracting yourself. It was that way for me, at the very least. I don't think that there is a direct route to reducing how much one uses coping mechanisms like this, the best way to reduce them is to explore how you are still hurting and resolve it.

 

Yes, shallow sex was only one of the things that kept me from thinking about myself. 

 

Some use alcohol and drugs. For me it was sex and gaming. Let's also add heavy smoking.

 

I've quit all of these habits pretty recently ( Stopped intensive gaming years ago, stopped smoking 6 months ago and I try to be more aware when it comes to dating since 3 months ). However, it's really easy to fall back if one doesn't watch out. That's why I also think it's time to take therapy really seriously. 

 

Can you tell me more about your bad habits and the reasons why you had them ?

 

Thanks for your reply. 

There's nothing immoral about having meaningless sex, just realize that it's only glorified masturbation to have sex with a woman you do not love. Is normal masturbation not an option? Why are virtuous women not attracted to you and/or vice versa? When was the last time you were single and for how long?

 

I think the answer was easy: virtuous women were not attracted because I had no virtue myself. And even if one of them would've been attracted by me, I might have missed out on that. I appreciated virtue but not to the extend I do today. I could recognize it but I was easily corrupted by superficial beauty. 

 

I understand your analogy with porn and masturbation. Nowadays I tend to believe that too much masturbation can be damaging as well. I started watching porn at a young age and it might have influenced the way I look at beauty. I try to canalize my sexual energy in other ways nowadays and I'm interested in any information source that handles this subject. It's all a matter of discipline I think. Too much lust kills the lust. 

 

In response to your last question I'll also say this: I'm now almost 30 and I've been a serial monogamist since the age of 23. I've had 5 relationships that lasted in average 1 year, with breaks of 6 months in between. Needless to say that I believed my issues would be fixed within a relationship rather then on my own. 

[mgggb]

 

I think the answer was easy: virtuous women were not attracted because I had no virtue myself. And even if one of them would've been attracted by me, I might have missed out on that. I appreciated virtue but not to the extend I do today. I could recognize it but I was easily corrupted by superficial beauty. 

 

I understand your analogy with porn and masturbation. Nowadays I tend to believe that too much masturbation can be damaging as well. I started watching porn at a young age and it might have influenced the way I look at beauty. I try to canalize my sexual energy in other ways nowadays and I'm interested in any information source that handles this subject. It's all a matter of discipline I think. Too much lust kills the lust. 

 

In response to your last question I'll also say this: I'm now almost 30 and I've been a serial monogamist since the age of 23. I've had 5 relationships that lasted in average 1 year, with breaks of 6 months in between. Needless to say that I believed my issues would be fixed within a relationship rather then on my own. 

Things tend only to happen when you stop thinking about the process. For example, when I first learned how to ride a bike my father did the typical thing where he pushed the bike as I pedaled and let go without telling me. I was fine for about a block and a half until I realized that he wasn't pushing me, then I lost control and hit a street sign. The only thing that differentiated the two moments before and after I realized he wasn't there was that I wasn't thinking about the process of riding the bike when I though I was being pushed.

So in terms of dating, don't think "I need to find a virtuous woman", be someone that would be attractive to a virtuous woman. I think having high standards and red flags is important. For me piercings and tattoos are more or less an automatic disqualifyer because they tend to signify emotional problems with the father. Excessive makeup can signify insecurity or vanity a woman may have about her appearance, either way, it is in a sense a way of masking who she is. I guess what I'm getting at is that if you don't want to date a smoker, you should first quit smoking because you wont meet someone who doesn't in the smoking section of the restaurant.

 

As for porn and canalization of sexual desire, NoFap is a decent community to look into if you haven't heard of it already. I don't think complete celibacy is the answer but a lot of the people there seem to find value in it. I think it's repressive to discipline your desires and the opposite extreme to wacking it 5 times a day. But watching porn is absolutely terrible imo for two reasons: first, it makes your base brain think you have a harem of a million different women waiting for you at home, whats the point of risking rejection if that were true, and second, you are watching another man have sex with a woman you desire, that is the literal definition of a cuck.

[Drew.]

 

Yes, shallow sex was only one of the things that kept me from thinking about myself. 

 

Some use alcohol and drugs. For me it was sex and gaming. Let's also add heavy smoking.

 

I've quit all of these habits pretty recently ( Stopped intensive gaming years ago, stopped smoking 6 months ago and I try to be more aware when it comes to dating since 3 months ). However, it's really easy to fall back if one doesn't watch out. That's why I also think it's time to take therapy really seriously. 

 

Can you tell me more about your bad habits and the reasons why you had them ?

 

Thanks for your reply. 

 

I have tried abstaining from activities like that in the past. I would find success for a time, but when I reengaged with them, I would be wracked with shame and disappointment in myself. These things are coping mechanisms. When we feel bad, they are a way of making ourselves feel good. Although, we often regret engaging in such an activity after we do it. It is known as a shame spiral, and is particularly vicious.

 

Feeling bad leads to coping leads to feeling bad leads to coping...

 

When I was living with my parent still, there would be regular fights between us. There was a great deal of stress in my life. I smoked cigarettes. The moment that I moved out of my parent's house--and subsequently to China--my desire to smoke cigarettes dropped entirely. I had been trying to quit for months. I tried a cigarette again a few years later, but I just couldn't even smoke one.

 

I don't feel like getting into the specifics of my coping habits, but everyone does it. I don't think we deserve to punish ourselves if we cope. We cope because we have been traumatized, so if we punish ourselves, we are just adding more adversity and trauma. It just doesn't make sense to me, but it is an easy habit to fall into.