a tad worried about my anarchist-2-year-old..quite a handful of action.

[Libertyblues]

Hey dads and moms,

 

I'm a father of a 2 year old son and I'm worried that we have granted him too much freedom in the past, which now makes him quite uncooperative and I seem to be the only one left who can handle him without drama. Basically he expresses his own will and it takes a lot of nerve and patience to get him to cooperate.

 

For example, we set out to go to the pool, he then turns left instead of right with his strider-bike. It's not safe for him on the left so I hold his bike and explain to him that it's unsafe in baby-terms and that we're going to the pool and have to turn right. He protests very strongly. I have to hold his bike, because he keeps pushing to go left and I keep holding it for a felt eternity until I can find a trigger thing for him to get him to cooperate (last time "lets look at cars that way" worked). For a couple of weeks I've been more assertive in the negotiations and I found that usually we can agree on a third option and he's happy with that.

 

I'm very set to not use force to solve these things and just use patience as long as it takes if possible because I think it doesn't actually matter whether we arrive at the pool or not. I'm not the main caretaker though, my wife is and she very often has no patience at all and just picks him up and escalates the situation. For example, even when there is no hurry at all, she forcefully dresses him and such things. I should add that we are actually separated and just live together to raise the kid together for now, she's the housewife and I'm a university student. Long story short, she v-bombed me just when I was getting out of a depression, at a point where I didn't know about Stef yet.

 

So I'm really asking myself lately if this is the right approach to raise a 2 year old and I'm worried that he's turning out too "difficult" to steer, for example for his grandparents.

[Mister Mister]

sorry for the troubles.  I have a suspicion that these kind of "difficult" kids really just have strong genes of assertiveness, will, probably intelligence to some degree.  So it may seem difficult now, but if you do right by him, he will be a confident, independent teenager and things will be much easier.

 

the difference in parenting sounds like it could definitely be the problem.  sometimes when kids feel like they don't have choices, they have to test the boundaries.  he doesn't actually want to turn right, is just frustrated with being told what to do all the time, which like I said, is not really a problem, it's very healthy.  so the challenge for you is to deal with the difference in parenting philosophy with your wife, rather than "take it out" on the kid, treating him as the problem.  bring her as much information and reasoning as possible.  Don't make it about her or you, make it about what is best for the child, and what will make you all the happiest and least stressed out in the long run.  Is she going to forcefully dress him when he is 8?  13?  17?  Help her see that what she is doing isn't going to work forever, and will get harder and worse and time goes on.   Appeal to her self-interest.  That's just my amateur opinions/advice as a childless young man.  Good luck.

I don't quite understand the arrangement with your ex...you are separated, but you live together, and she stays at home with the kid.  So basically you pay for everything, but you don't have sex?  Does she date other men?   Sounds like a shitty deal to me.

[neeeel]

I dont have much experience with 2 yos, more 5s and up, but it sounds like you are going along the right lines. 

 

Yes, in effect, it doesnt really matter whether you reach the pool or not.its good to keep that in mind. Also, you can keep saying, "we are going to the pool, do you still want to go"?

 

Does he know you are going to the pool when you leave the house? Does he like going to the pool? Im sure even a 2yo can understand that if he wants to go to the pool, and the pool is thataway, then he needs to go thataway.

 

what is there off to the left that he wants to go see/do? Do you go somewhere else that he likes, where you need to go left instead of right? Anyway, I think you are handling it well, you are keeping him safe, explaining what you are doing and why, and not getting angry with him.

 

When he protests, what does he say, if anything?

 

you say you are worried about him being "too uncooperative"., who has planted the idea in your head that hes uncooperative?

[Troubador]

Well first off I think you've started off on the right foot and are doing well. I'm in a situation not dissimilar to yours only my little boy is three and a half.

 

What is going on here is a perfectly normal developmental marker. He's two and he is beginning to form his personality, preferences and is beginning to exert his will. Believe me you want this to happen and everything sounds like it is going fine. The key is to understand things from his point of view then everything will slide into place.

 

He will have little concept of time and cause and effect yet. From his point of view the journey is an activity in itself that has his full attention and has all these fascinating distractions. To look at it a way that may help his mother when she is trying to get him changed to go out he's basically communicating "I'm so happy and fulfilled in this location doing this activity with you here I don't want any change", and believe you me you or his mother being there is a supremely important part of that equation. It's worth taking a pause to consider that when you feel he's being uncooperative. It's showing he feels safe and happy with you right now, and if I feel that why change anything?

 

That said although I reckon you'll have it down from that the completionist in me feels compelled to throw in a few specific strategies. For my own little boy I worked in the concept of teamwork early on, so we did things as a team, be it clearing up, going out shopping etc etc. With lots of praise and reinforcement, which means lots of things take much longer to complete, as now he likes to take a role in food preparation. I'd do it quicker on my own, but where it pays dividends later is I don't get hissy fits in supermarkets and shops and so on as we have a brief moments explanation before, and we go in and get it done. I give him things to choose between so he gets to exert choice and explore that, inevitably you get the occasional frustration as he wants to do something he can't. That's when in my view you comfort and help him manage his emotions rather than telegraph certain emotions are unacceptable.

 

One initial measure you may get some mileage out of is a star chart, get some stickers and award them for team activities, like brushing teeth, getting changed to go out, anything you wish to make easier. Once he fills up a weeks worth do an activity with him he can choose, with the key point being time spent with you or mum or if you can stomach it both of you. Time with you will be like oxygen atm, so praise each star and let him choose and place it and reinforce how good he's been all week.

 

You are about to hit a fascinating time with him, so much changes so quickly it is a phenomenal privilege to watch a whole new human bieng start to unfold....

[Libertyblues]

I don't quite understand the arrangement with your ex...you are separated, but you live together, and she stays at home with the kid.  So basically you pay for everything, but you don't have sex?  Does she date other men?   Sounds like a shitty deal to me.

Thanks RoseCodex. I'm here in Europe, I get a student loan and she and my kid get welfare - I know, not a virtuous arragement financially. No sex with her, thank heaven. No dating. And yes, I fell and climbed back from hell with my kid on the shoulder and her chained to both my feet. I'm going through this one step at a time, my worst nightmare yet.

 

I dont have much experience with 2 yos, more 5s and up, but it sounds like you are going along the right lines. 

 

Yes, in effect, it doesnt really matter whether you reach the pool or not.its good to keep that in mind. Also, you can keep saying, "we are going to the pool, do you still want to go"?

 

Does he know you are going to the pool when you leave the house? Does he like going to the pool? Im sure even a 2yo can understand that if he wants to go to the pool, and the pool is thataway, then he needs to go thataway.

 

what is there off to the left that he wants to go see/do? Do you go somewhere else that he likes, where you need to go left instead of right? Anyway, I think you are handling it well, you are keeping him safe, explaining what you are doing and why, and not getting angry with him.

 

When he protests, what does he say, if anything?

 

you say you are worried about him being "too uncooperative"., who has planted the idea in your head that hes uncooperative?

 

Thanks for the reply neeel. I'm not sure cooperate is a good term for this - I'd rather negotiate a win-win with him, which works for me most of the time. But my parents and my wife often don't have the patience or commitment, they want him to do what they ask. What started to worry about is something our doctor said when we last went there. If I let him control us, he won't respect us and things will go downhill from there. There are a few boundaries I've kept for a while. For example he's not allowed to climb onto the table, and he respects this 99% of the time. He tests this boundary in a playful way, and I jump in and stop him in a playful way. This has worked well and kept a happy atmosphere. He didn't articulate what he wanted when turning left that time, really no idea what he was up to that time..

 

Well first off I think you've started off on the right foot and are doing well. I'm in a situation not dissimilar to yours only my little boy is three and a half.

 

What is going on here is a perfectly normal developmental marker. He's two and he is beginning to form his personality, preferences and is beginning to exert his will. Believe me you want this to happen and everything sounds like it is going fine. The key is to understand things from his point of view then everything will slide into place.

 

He will have little concept of time and cause and effect yet. From his point of view the journey is an activity in itself that has his full attention and has all these fascinating distractions. To look at it a way that may help his mother when she is trying to get him changed to go out he's basically communicating "I'm so happy and fulfilled in this location doing this activity with you here I don't want any change", and believe you me you or his mother being there is a supremely important part of that equation. It's worth taking a pause to consider that when you feel he's being uncooperative. It's showing he feels safe and happy with you right now, and if I feel that why change anything?

 

That said although I reckon you'll have it down from that the completionist in me feels compelled to throw in a few specific strategies. For my own little boy I worked in the concept of teamwork early on, so we did things as a team, be it clearing up, going out shopping etc etc. With lots of praise and reinforcement, which means lots of things take much longer to complete, as now he likes to take a role in food preparation. I'd do it quicker on my own, but where it pays dividends later is I don't get hissy fits in supermarkets and shops and so on as we have a brief moments explanation before, and we go in and get it done. I give him things to choose between so he gets to exert choice and explore that, inevitably you get the occasional frustration as he wants to do something he can't. That's when in my view you comfort and help him manage his emotions rather than telegraph certain emotions are unacceptable.

 

One initial measure you may get some mileage out of is a star chart, get some stickers and award them for team activities, like brushing teeth, getting changed to go out, anything you wish to make easier. Once he fills up a weeks worth do an activity with him he can choose, with the key point being time spent with you or mum or if you can stomach it both of you. Time with you will be like oxygen atm, so praise each star and let him choose and place it and reinforce how good he's been all week.

 

You are about to hit a fascinating time with him, so much changes so quickly it is a phenomenal privilege to watch a whole new human bieng start to unfold....

 Thanks Troubador, that was very helpful. That star-chart is a great idea, better than sweets! I will try this!

 

 

I have a follow-up question. My wife is verbally abusive, she just gets louder and louder when I try to argue with her with arguments, she feels that she's in the right to just get louder and louder, and it's all my fault. I've listened to a few podcasts of Stefs' which gave me a lot more stability regarding what she's trying. He once said that it's useless to try to get the upper hand in those situation because she has a life time of practice at this kind of manipulation - that took a load off my shoulders. She argues every day about small details, and nags and nags and nags and escalates..

 

Ok, but my question is - what is virtue in my current situation? My sons sees this behavior and sees me in the loosing role. I'm still in the same household because I want to keep a close watch over and close connection to my son. He's still partly breast-fed and stuck with his mom for night sleep and naps. Do I continue as the dog that's regularly kicked?

[Troubador]

Thanks for the feedback! I hope it helps, I just re-read the thread and I'd just like to add acquire many strategies. Although one may work like a charm it always helps to have something new and fresh to present. As long as it's entertaining and involves interaction with you it will probably be a success!

 

As to your own situation it's incredibly hard to advise on limited information. What I can say is that there is no reason for you to stand there and take abuse. In your shoes I would simply disengage and refuse to engage in discussion until there was some civility present.

 

You mention you are in Europe, if that happens to be the UK then there are parenting classes it might be wise for you both to attend. It sounds very much like you are both set on an adversarial path, and its key you both get the space to analyse this all from your child's perspective.

 

As to yourself take mental stock, like you I have found my circumstances incredibly stress inducing. I simply couldn't have coped without some incredibly fantastic friends and family who have had my back. If you find yourself isolated widen your circle as much as your current circumstances allow. You say you are a student? There will likely be support services available to you through your University, avail yourself of them. Therapy was also something that helped get things into perspective for me, and again something that might be available to you through your University.

 

The virtue here is taking responsibility for, and being engaged and involved with your sons life (which you are), but also to take care of yourself too. I'd also suggest canvassing a wide variety of opinions on here. Obviously provide only as much information as you are comfortable doing so, but feel free to message me if you'd like. Oh and start squirrelling away any spare money you can get your hands on. You may regrettably find yourself in court, acquaint yourself with a decent lawyer as soon as you can. I consulted with one pretty soon into getting into my predicament, and received some sound advice, like to keep a diary on contact I had with my son.

 

In addition if your ex escalates her abuse to either you or your son, do not be hesitant to seek help from the police. Seek out advocacy groups that can assist and provide support. In short get your contingency plans in order, and keep a weather eye on the future. Best of luck!

[Libertyblues]

Thank you for the advice Troubador!

I'm very anxious regarding therapy because the things that my parents introduced me to in my twenties were a bad experience all around. Mind you, none of the councillors had psychology degrees but were friends of my parents.

Regarding an attorney, ever since I was introduced to Stef, I thought I'd apply the NAP an try to not go through court as hard as I could. My wife has, threatened to get an attorney, to which I always said I'd give her anything she asks for. This was and still is the only way I could continue to negotiate with her but it worked to at least keep her from escalating further. Do you think that's a bad tactic?

[neeeel]

Thanks for the reply neeel. I'm not sure cooperate is a good term for this - I'd rather negotiate a win-win with him, which works for me most of the time. But my parents and my wife often don't have the patience or commitment, they want him to do what they ask. What started to worry about is something our doctor said when we last went there. If I let him control us, he won't respect us and things will go downhill from there. There are a few boundaries I've kept for a while. For example he's not allowed to climb onto the table, and he respects this 99% of the time. He tests this boundary in a playful way, and I jump in and stop him in a playful way. This has worked well and kept a happy atmosphere. He didn't articulate what he wanted when turning left that time, really no idea what he was up to that time..

 

 

 

Does the doctor know what hes talking about? If hes just assuming that peaceful parenting = permissive parenting, or =weak parenting, then I think you can safely ignore his advice.

Are you letting him control you? It doesnt sound like it. 

It sounds like its going to be tough for you and your son because of the way your parents and wife treat him. He needs you all the more because of that

[dsayers]

I'm a father of a 2 year old son and I'm worried that we have granted him too much freedom in the past, which now makes him quite uncooperative and I seem to be the only one left who can handle him without drama. Basically he expresses his own will and it takes a lot of nerve and patience to get him to cooperate.

First, let me commend you for having enough integrity to seek out ways to live your values. Especially ones as essential as peacefully raising a child!

 

Anytime you want to gauge your contribution to a relationship, start subbing out the actors. Imagine this read that you had granted your spouse too much freedom in the past, which now MAKES them quite uncooperative? My spouse expresses their own will and it takes a lot of NERVE and PATIENCE to get them to cooperate.

 

The word COoperate means working together. However, your manner of speech seems to seek conformity, not cooperation. I don't know what "too much freedom" looks like, but I know that patience here only references out-willing somebody. Which in the parent-child relationship means leveraging your power disparity. Do you wish to model such behavior for your child's adult self to live by? Do you want to condition them to occupy the submissive in a win-lose relationship/interaction?

 

I don't follow your pool example. Is turning the way you don't want mean approaching the deep end? Can you not explain to them the dangers they will find over there? Can you not train him the skills so that the deep end is unlikely to equate to death? As somebody who is undoubtedly larger than him, could you not save him from a mishap in the deep end? Or outfit him with floaty arms? That's just off the top of my head ways that would be better for him than simply overpowering him, which is what I view holding the bike and/or out-willing him equates to.

 

Parenting is about preparation. You create your child's entire world. If he is not doing what you call cooperating, then you have failed to incentivize him to do as you would like him to. Which in this case might even go so far as to indicate that your expectations were in the wrong. If you were to negotiate with him as much as possible at any given age, he will be communicating his needs to you and you can speak to him in a way that better reaches him. You'll be developing a bond between equals, preparing him to seek out win-win relationships and not be dominant or submissive. Would you like that for him? You can give it to him. All you have to do is sub out the actors in your mind and treat him the way you would want to be treated by somebody 10 times your size, who is keeping you where you didn't ask to be, and you are dependent upon for survival. Does that make sense?

[Libertyblues]

First, let me commend you for having enough integrity to seek out ways to live your values. Especially ones as essential as peacefully raising a child!

 

Anytime you want to gauge your contribution to a relationship, start subbing out the actors. Imagine this read that you had granted your spouse too much freedom in the past, which now MAKES them quite uncooperative? My spouse expresses their own will and it takes a lot of NERVE and PATIENCE to get them to cooperate.

 

The word COoperate means working together. However, your manner of speech seems to seek conformity, not cooperation. I don't know what "too much freedom" looks like, but I know that patience here only references out-willing somebody. Which in the parent-child relationship means leveraging your power disparity. Do you wish to model such behavior for your child's adult self to live by? Do you want to condition them to occupy the submissive in a win-lose relationship/interaction?

 

I don't follow your pool example. Is turning the way you don't want mean approaching the deep end? Can you not explain to them the dangers they will find over there? Can you not train him the skills so that the deep end is unlikely to equate to death? As somebody who is undoubtedly larger than him, could you not save him from a mishap in the deep end? Or outfit him with floaty arms? That's just off the top of my head ways that would be better for him than simply overpowering him, which is what I view holding the bike and/or out-willing him equates to.

 

Parenting is about preparation. You create your child's entire world. If he is not doing what you call cooperating, then you have failed to incentivize him to do as you would like him to. Which in this case might even go so far as to indicate that your expectations were in the wrong. If you were to negotiate with him as much as possible at any given age, he will be communicating his needs to you and you can speak to him in a way that better reaches him. You'll be developing a bond between equals, preparing him to seek out win-win relationships and not be dominant or submissive. Would you like that for him? You can give it to him. All you have to do is sub out the actors in your mind and treat him the way you would want to be treated by somebody 10 times your size, who is keeping you where you didn't ask to be, and you are dependent upon for survival. Does that make sense?

 

Thank you dsayers, I really appreciate you taking the time! Your post really made me think again about my behavior. The thing that happened was that we agreed to go to the pool but when we stepped out our front door he turned left instead of right with his strider bike. He didn't express why he was going right but it's not as safe turning left. Now thinking about it, I could have just gone left with him and be extra cautious. The gist of the problem is that there are things he can't make his own decisions yet. Actually, turning left wasn't the problem but what the doctor said.

 

The day we went to the pediatrician to get a routine checkup he ran to the door and opened it to leave the room to go to the toy section. My memory is a bit fogged, but I think my wife stopped him and he started to protest and then I picked him up and explained to him that we are doing a check-up. This is when the doctor explained that he's just protesting and not really crying and he is learning by trial and error to exert his will, or over-power/dominate his parents, which would lead to a difficult child/parent relationship. This is when I started to be more affirmative, meaning instead of "shall we go to the pool?" I use "let's go to the pool" instead which worked a lot better.

 

Regarding patience "out willing someone" I agree that sometimes it really does happen, but most of the time I mean by patience that we stop and negotiate. Stopping when fully motivated to go somewhere is very difficult for a 2-year old, so I really do have to hold the bike and in my example I couldn't get him to express what he wanted to do turning left and I had no idea - I hope next time he will show me so I know what it is he wants to do there. I had the feeling he didn't have a particular reason to turn left and then when I stopped him to negotiate he tested if he could over-power me - actually, I just realize that by not letting him turn left I over-powered him first at which he might have just mirrored me and tried to over-powered me back

 

How do you explain to a 2-year old that he can't have ice-cream every time we step out? Unfortunately there is a café just a stones throw away..and he knows it! I find it very difficult to set the boundaries but I will try subbing out the actors and see if this works to find win-win solutions.

[dsayers]

Thank you dsayers, I really appreciate you taking the time! Your post really made me think again about my behavior.

I am both honored and humbled. Thank you both for your feedback and your courage in looking inward. One of the hardest, yet most liberating thing I've learned to do in my life is accept my own capacity for error. So it ranks very highly in my opinion of others

 

I felt a bit frustrated reading the rest of your post. Upon first glance, it seems as if you still view yourself as above him. Not saying I'm right about that or that it would be wrong to do so. I just think it will serve as an additional hurdle for you on the path to your stated goal. It also seems that you do not fully realize or appreciate how much you teach him just by the behaviors you model for him. Finally, I have no frame of reference for "doctor" in your post. Is this a medical doctor? A therapist?

 

He didn't express why he was going right but it's not as safe turning left. Now thinking about it, I could have just gone left with him and be extra cautious. The gist of the problem is that there are things he can't make his own decisions yet.

Why not? If he's trying to make such a decision, this is him communicating to you that he IS ready to make that decision for himself. Your job is to help him make the best decision he can FOR HIMSELF. This would start by you modeling that decision in your own life. If there's a fork in the road and one's less safe, does he see you exercising additional caution? Secondly would come direct communication. Help him to understand his options in any given decision. If one path is less safe, tell him so and why. Then you can always follow up by demonstrating being more careful for him. Finally, by approaching this "problem" in this fashion, you will be communicating a great number of things passively/subliminally. Humans are universality machines. If any of the things you model/tell him about here can be applied elsewhere, he will. So you're not only helping him with this problem in the moment, but helping him with future problems, his problem solving capabilities, and his self-reliance! This last part is key because not only does it fulfill your obligations to him, but it makes him that much "easier to parent." Win-win

 

I think my wife stopped him and he started to protest and then I picked him up and explained to him that we are doing a check-up. This is when the doctor explained that he's just protesting and not really crying and he is learning by trial and error to exert his will, or over-power/dominate his parents, which would lead to a difficult child/parent relationship. This is when I started to be more affirmative, meaning instead of "shall we go to the pool?" I use "let's go to the pool" instead which worked a lot better.

I want to push back on almost all of it. The one part I accept and agree with is learning by trial and error and exploring the limits of one's reality. This is a biological imperative and we all do it all the time. This is very healthy and left unstifled will make sure that he will grow up to be as independent, self-reliant, AND respectful of others as possible.

 

Near as I can tell, the scenario you described is an example of a prior failing on the part of the parents. Does he know why he's there? Has it been explained to him how the doctor has other people he needs to see? Did you ASK him if he would be so kind as to focus on what you're there to do and that you can "play" later? And so on. His protest sounds just to me as he was overpowered. Which it sounds like you responded by doubling down/escalating. Can you imagine if someone ten times your size picked you up against your will?

 

I also wanted to address the suggestion is trying to overpower/dominate you. It would be something to take high priority note of IF it is true. I would recommend checking out Alison Gopnik's book The Philosophical Baby. If you don't have that kind of time, check out Stef's interview with her. Her work reveals that humans are naturally empathetic and will co-operate, reward kind behavior, and reject aggressive behavior and a shockingly young age. Which makes evolutionary since as we are a social species. So if he is trying to overpower/dominate, it would mean he learned that by having it inflicted upon him and is engaging in it in an attempt to escape it and/or communicate that that is his experience. Which in and of itself would indicate that he doesn't feel as if he can communicate his experience directly and verbally. If that turns out to be the case, I think a good example can be found in this thread about how to go about reversing the existing damage.

 

Finally, I disagree with the last sentiment of this quote. Asking him a question invites him to be himself in the conversation. It shows him he has a choice. Better still would be to negotiate in advance. Like not even needing to have to ask if he wants to go to the pool NOW. Ask in advance so if there's a need for negotiation, you'll have time to do so. And it will model planning ahead and/or deferred gratification. It's good to be assertive with things like how you feel, what your experiences are, what your preferences are. You can't really be assertive in how HIS time will be spent anymore than you could anybody else (sub the actors ). Nobody tells you how your time will be spent and you don't want him growing up planning his time based on what others expect of him (outside of his voluntarily created obligations of course).

 

Regarding patience "out willing someone" I agree that sometimes it really does happen, but most of the time I mean by patience that we stop and negotiate. Stopping when fully motivated to go somewhere is very difficult for a 2-year old

How do you know? This sounds deterministic to me. As if "2-year old" is a species that absolutely behaves in this way. Maybe it's difficult to stop because he hasn't been negotiated with, isn't listened to, hasn't learned how to defer gratification, etc. Which again, in the moment is too late. You are smarter and more experienced than him. It's YOUR job to monitor the horizon and negotiate things with him in advance. Then if he tries to go back on your agreement, you can remind him of as much. It would be helpful too if he saw you not going back on your deals or if you need to for some reason, addressing it with him and accepting your failure. That way you have a shared experience to call back on to help him understand why breaking one's word is problematic based on HE felt when it happened to him. I'm not saying do it deliberately just for the lesson, but shit happens. Life will shift on you in a way where you'll have little choice but to do so.

 

This kind of goes back to negotiating in advance. The less you have to deal with in the moment, the less confrontational any given moment will be. Then as you negotiate with him more and more, the framework will be in place so that if you do have to negotiate in the moment, he'll understand you're trying to work TOGETHER rather than overpower him. Pretty key when you consider the ways adults have been subjugated to enslave themselves.

 

How do you explain to a 2-year old that he can't have ice-cream every time we step out? Unfortunately there is a café just a stones throw away..and he knows it!

How does he know it? How does he know what ice cream is? He didn't come into the world knowing it. Somebody must've exposed him to it Not saying that you were wrong to do so. Just wanted to point out that you knew when you did that exactly this could/would happen. This is where steering for the horizon is helpful. My first question would be what are you and your wife's diets like? I've heard Stef talk about how he would explain that too much junk hurts your teeth, your belly, makes your poops unpleasant. If you can connect too much sweets to these things, you will teach him to make better decisions for himself, including moderation and/or deferral. And you'll teach him what it means to put things into his body, the alternatives, and the consequences.

 

I look forward to continuing this conversation. It's too late for me now, so I'm going to end it here. Thanks again for your time and sensitivity in such matters. You're taking steps towards saving the world, my friend.

[neeeel]

 

The day we went to the pediatrician to get a routine checkup he ran to the door and opened it to leave the room to go to the toy section. My memory is a bit fogged, but I think my wife stopped him and he started to protest and then I picked him up and explained to him that we are doing a check-up. This is when the doctor explained that he's just protesting and not really crying and he is learning by trial and error to exert his will, or over-power/dominate his parents, which would lead to a difficult child/parent relationship. This is when I started to be more affirmative, meaning instead of "shall we go to the pool?" I use "let's go to the pool" instead which worked a lot better.

 

 

 

 

again, does the doctor know what he/she is talking about? theres nothing wrong with him learning to exert his will, and he will also find out that other people have wills that are different than his.

 

 

How do you explain to a 2-year old that he can't have ice-cream every time we step out? Unfortunately there is a café just a stones throw away..and he knows it! I find it very difficult to set the boundaries but I will try subbing out the actors and see if this works to find win-win solutions.

 

 

The same way you explain to anyone else.Be honest. Tell the truth. Why do you not want to go and have ice cream every time you step outside? You tell him the reasons why, and if he doesnt understand, you can explain a different way, or with different words, or using examples from his life. Perhaps hes right, and going for ice cream is a good idea? 

 

For example, "I dont want to go for ice cream" is a valid reason. It doesnt mean that its the law, or that it will always be that way. Perhaps your son will even persuade you to go for ice cream, in which case, great. If he asks you why you dont want to, then you tell him. So, when someone wanted me to buy them ice cream, I said "i dont want to spend any more money" and I think that was a valid reason. It didnt blame them for wanting ice cream, I didnt get angry or make out he was being bad or ungrateful. And, perhaps my reasons arent great, or are based on some other worry or want or need ( perhaps I am worried that I need to teach him the value of money, or worried about being too permissive, or worried about not setting boundaries, non of which are to do with ice cream, or the present situation), examining my reasons, I may see that, actually, yes, he wants to go for ice cream, I want to go for ice cream, so lets go for ice cream!! or, you might feel that right now, you dont want to., or youve had ice cream recently or whatever, so you explain that. 

 

Ive never been a fan of this "kids need boundaries" thing. Perhaps its you that needs boundaries, not him!! Yes, kids need to be kept safe, but dont get locked into "I have made my decision, therefore I HAVE to stick to it, because boundaries". You can stick to your decision, and thats fine. You can also change your mind, and thats fine.

 

There is nothing wrong with you expressing your wants to him.

[AccuTron]

Re the ice cream, and any other ingestion/health issues -- this is the age of the internet.

 

Prepare a simple group of images or weblinks.  Show him the needle the dentist uses, show him pix of decayed teeth, of gum disease.  Show him pictures of clogged arteries and people with decaying limbs.  These are the real reasons for something.  I don't know about the age here, but maybe that kind of warning can't come too soon.  Without the "proof" Daddy is just making words, and maybe or maybe not they are completely trusted.  Look at a few stunningly grotesque photos of "this will happen to You!" and he will understand the issues.  Not completely, but a good gross-out is a very effective teaching tool.

[Lotus Flowery]

Re the ice cream, and any other ingestion/health issues -- this is the age of the internet.

 

Prepare a simple group of images or weblinks.  Show him the needle the dentist uses, show him pix of decayed teeth, of gum disease.  Show him pictures of clogged arteries and people with decaying limbs.  These are the real reasons for something.  I don't know about the age here, but maybe that kind of warning can't come too soon.  Without the "proof" Daddy is just making words, and maybe or maybe not they are completely trusted.  Look at a few stunningly grotesque photos of "this will happen to You!" and he will understand the issues.  Not completely, but a good gross-out is a very effective teaching tool.

Will this not be too traumatic for a two year old? When my son was going through a phase of poking me in the eye, I considered showing him pictures of injured eyes so that he could see what might happen if he continued, but then wasn't sure how his three year old brain would process the images and decided against it.

 

Ice-cream is a junk food at the end of the day. I think it is important not to give kids junk. The affects of refined sugar on a two year old's pancreas can be very profound. Stefan made a very valid point in one of his shows once: Negotiation is always key but sometimes we need to make decisions for our children that they might not like now, but they will thank us for one day. With my own son, I consider the future him as well as the present him. For example, he is refusing to have a hair cut at the moment and that is fine, no harm done apart from messy hair. However, he is also refusing to have his toe nails cut. He is not going to thank me for it in the future if I let him have ingrowing toe nails, so they have to be cut! (I do it while he is asleep). Your "future" son will come to appreciate the fact that you did not allow his body to be filled with junk food whenever he demanded it, so I think it is OK to be clear about this and hold your ground. You could repeatedly remind him "no ice cream today because too much is bad for you" before you go out, and set his mind firmly on your plans for the day (negotiated of course). 

[Libertyblues]

Thank you everyone! I appreciate the time you have taken to reply! I read all replies and will process all the advice, (I need to re-read it) am happy about the points of improvement that have been pointed out - I don't feel backed into a corner anymore with things I can try out

 

I'm under a lot of stress because the mother keeps threatening to take off to her home country with my son. I should try harder to fall in love with her or she'll take off, is her openly stated wish. Even after explaining to her that asking this of me is proof that she, in fact, doesn't love me doesn't get through to her. She's East Asian by the way.

 

I'm not sure yet if she will follow through, if she does take off with my son, I told her I will follow right after her, by which I will have to postpone my bachelor degree from which I'm 6 months away from getting. I don't want to lose the connection to my son, is the reason. I want to avoid involving attorneys because I presume that getting to an official fight will only make things worse for my son in the short and the long run and won't change the outcome anyways..my goal was to keep things quiet until he's 8 but my wife tried to control every part of my life and tries to degrade me in front of my son nagging me and speaking to me in a high and shrill voice, locking herself away, leaving my son and me in the living room during his bed time (he is still breast-fed) making him cry to exert pressure on me, getting me to appologize.

 

It's so weird, I can hardly ever really recall what the hell was happening or which point or how she's arguing..well at least one point she always makes is that it's my fault she's angry and loud and that's why it's OK - typical emotional abuse what she's doing. I love my son, but his mother is the worst nightmare of my life and I've had a couple of pretty bad nightmares (which don't score on that scale of Stef's though; I'm scared to call in though.. fear of getting recognised and also I fear my emotional charge).

[Lotus Flowery]

I am sorry you are going through this. Have you tried mediation with your ex? I encourage you to take courage and call in the show - you have got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Libertyblues]

After a nights sleep I thought I'll show some grit and will write Mike my situation. At least I'll serve as a particle of information to others, as Stef once put it.

[Libertyblues]

My wife has agreed to have a 3rd party counsel us. This person knows both my and my wife's culture well and I hope to find some common ground on some basics like: not threatening with child abduction.

 

@dsayers: I was at the doctors again, this time without my wife and I explained to him beforehand where we're going and my son was perfectly cooperative, it was really sweet to watch him, I feel very proud of my son thinking about it even now, thank you for pointing that out to me

 

I think the problem I was having is choosing which gamble would be better for my son. And a second layer of that problem is I can't really tell if I'm just being selfish at this gamble because my sexual market value seems to be better in that East Asian country. There are pros and cons I can't weight properly. For example East Asia is extremely hierarchically organized by age and title and very authoritarian. My European home country is overrun by war-traumatized immigrants and seems a lost cause culture-wise and my wife is clearly signaling that she will go back home to East Asia the first chance she gets.

 

An other point I'm pondering is how I can be fair to my son if I start a new family. Every angle I look at it, he'll be an outsider in that family and it will become a lot harder to focus on his well-being. Having a half-sibling in his teens will be weird. Does anyone have experience with this?

[dsayers]

I'm glad you found value in my input. I wonder if your use of verbiage such as "I explained" and "he was cooperative" indicate that you still view the relationship as top-down. If so, it would mean that maybe you dealt with a few weeds, but the roots are still there and will sprout again. Does that make sense?

 

An other point I'm pondering is how I can be fair to my son if I start a new family. Every angle I look at it, he'll be an outsider in that family and it will become a lot harder to focus on his well-being.

If "fair" is truly what you're going for, then it will be a decision he makes with you. Which will require you to as best as you can explain the ramifications of such a decision. The more you clean up negotiating with him, the less he'll have reason to believe that more people could be problematic. Also, if something makes it harder to focus on his well-being, then the answer is that you'll have to put forth more effort to accommodate that. Or make no such decision that would put you in a situation where you would not be able to uphold your obligation to him. What do you think of this?

[Jsbrads]

Watching Jordan Peterson lectures on YouTube and he discusses telling his child his behavior is out of control and he isn't much fun to be around. He tells his son to gain control of his emotions and then the boy is welcome to join everyone else.

And here is the Kicker: the moment the boy regains control, go towards him with open arms and welcome him back.

A firm logical statement

Openness and joy

He will learn very quickly which he prefers, but I won't say it is easy. And it goes without saying, changing tacks midstream makes it a little harder, but the goal is worth it. He will progressively get better at handling his emotions and be the happier for it.