"Homosexuality and Pedophilia" Slippery slope arguement?

[Rummycat]

My question is as follows. Why do I hear things like "Pedophilia naturally follows if you allow homosexuality," or "homosexuality causes pedophilia"?   Full disclosure. I am bisexual but am living in a homosexual relationship. I grew up in a Catholic household and did missionary work of my own volition in the Philippines.  I have since realized that the threat of endless rape and torture inflicted upon those who disagree with an invisible and all powerful being doesn't really allow you to have free will. It is a psychological gun held to my head. 

 

So in the most recent video, The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization | Duke Pesta and Stefan Molyneux, at 26:00 Duke Pesta talks about determinism and how our genes determine who we are. He goes on to say that there is a movement to declassify pedophilia as a mental disorder just as homo.... (sexuality) (yes he didn't finish the word but it seems to follow.) This made me recall several discussions I have had with friends and family a long time ago.

 

Homosexuality between two consenting adults requires no initiation of force. Pedophilia must initiate force in order to have a "relationship" in the same way that rape is a relationship.  No matter how much people will try and manipulate their "arguments;" a child has a severely limited concept of what sex, relationships, commitment, love, and reproduction fully entails. They also lack the ability to effectively decline an advance and have agency. Therefore they cannot fully consent.  Please let me know if I am off-base but this seems like the most simple explanation. 

 

I feel physically ill and angry when I hear these things talked about side by side as if they are interchangeable or similar.  Pedophilia is evil and violates the non-aggression principle. Frankly, nothing pisses me off more than the idea of a child being abused.  Why do people make the argument that pedophilia and homosexuality are somehow similar? That is basically saying rape and love making are similar. Moreover why do people make the case that Homosexuality encourages the destruction of children's innocence and well being? I have heard people try to use pedophilia in order to demonize homosexuality and use homosexuality to try and legitimize pedophilia. I despise both threads of sophistry.

 

How do I fit this into my brain? Is there something I am not getting? Am I mistaking the world for myself? What do I do with these feelings of disgust and rage? How can I make them productive? Are my arguments sounds? What am I not considering?

 

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Donnadogsoth]

"As political and economic freedom diminishes, sexual freedom tends compensatingly to increase."

--Aldous Huxley

 

The Sexual Revolution is a shock machine.  It progresses by shocking the public, transforming what was formerly viewed as perversity, into normalcy.  The baseless assumption today is that, once we've freed the transsexuals and have gender neutral washrooms and Gays get on Dancing With the Stars, we're done!  Everything is finished, and we just have to watch out for that pesky homophobia or sexism or transphobia or polyphobia from now on in, but otherwise the castle of freedom is secure.

 

I don't think the shock machine is finished.  I think it wants to keep going, and to do that it will think up new shocks to the system to work at.  So our choices appear to be zoophilia, paedophilia, and incest.  Care to take bets?  Cannibalism, too, maybe.  Eventually, sacrificing living fetuses on an altar whilst performing a ritual orgy for Astarte.  Whatever will add a few alphabet letters to the LCBGT &etc..

 

Why is this happening?  It's an operation designed to help wreck Western civilisation by shocking the system.  Adult homosexuality itself may not, as it naturally and quietly occurs, damage society, but "Gay Pride" in-your-face S&M dancers waving their junk for the cameras is intended to shock heterosexuals.  This is welcomed by the Sneak Rulers as a way to disgregate and demoralise the population.

[EclecticIdealist]

This is welcomed by the Sneak Rulers as a way to disintegrate and demoralise the population.

Who do you think these "Sneak Rulers" are? Communists? One World/New World Order? Zionist Bankers? All of the above?

[Donnadogsoth]

Who do you think these "Sneak Rulers" are? Communists? One World/New World Order? Zionist Bankers? All of the above?

 

Essentially, rich men who "understand" each other, so confident in their divine right and their knowledge of "how the world works" that they view their lessers as children:  easily manipulated.  They are the "tax farmers" Stefan talks about, though they are not passive, they take a hand in cultivating (and culling) the "herds" under their purview.  They talk, they make deals, they use their influence, and they are not stupid.  They rise out of the ranks of the financiers, politicians, aristocrats, old and new money, and corporate heads.

 

They form themselves into circles like the Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group, Davos Group, etc., filled with groomed and picked people, and they deploy propagandistic agencies like the mass mainstream media and the education system, besides their levels of power like national political, economic, and military machinery, the United Nations, NATO, and the Federal Reserve.  Everything under them that serves them whether willingly or unwillingly, wittingly or unwittingly, comprises the femiblob.

 

The oligarchy is the nucleus of said blob.

[EclecticIdealist]

My question is as follows. Why do I hear things like "Pedophilia naturally follows if you allow homosexuality," or "homosexuality causes pedophilia"?

 

You hear it because religious moralists realize that the argument against consensual homosexuality is very weak and increasingly unpopular with most reasonable people; however arguments against the rape of children are not weak. Since various religious texts condemn both, they hope to get people to agree with the condemnation of homosexuality based on their emotional reaction against child rape. They are further bolstered by the comments of criminally selfish hedonists who happen to have a homosexual orientation who are interested in having sex with young, boys (e.g. NAMBLA) while conveniently ignoring all the men with a heterosexual orientation who are interested in having sex with young girls. It also ignores the fact that by far and away, the vast majority of sexual abusers of children are not homosexuals or former homosexuals, but rather heterosexuals or those who have never been interested in sexual relations with adults, many of which do not discriminate in the sex of the children they molest. 

 

So in the most recent video, The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization | Duke Pesta and Stefan Molyneux, at 26:00 Duke Pesta talks about determinism and how our genes determine who we are. He goes on to say that there is a movement to declassify pedophilia as a mental disorder just as homo.... (sexuality) (yes he didn't finish the word but it seems to follow.) 

 

While it is true that there are some who wish to reclassify sexual orientation toward children as other than a mental disorder, the vast majority of mental health professionals do not agree with this rather insignificant movement which is essentially alarmist propaganda riding the hysteria following the declassification of homosexual and bisexual orientations on the part of psychologically well adjusted individuals as mental disorder. You are most certainly not off base in identifying the significant difference between consensual sex between adults and non-consensual sex between or with children, animals, or any other beings incapable to participating with full, informed consent.

 

Why do people make the argument that pedophilia and homosexuality are somehow similar?

 

They make the argument for a number of different reasons, perhaps the most prevalent reason being the wish to demonize homosexuality and homosexuals because it makes them uncomfortable(either because they are genuinely repulsed by it, or for a few, because they are not repulsed by it and struggle with the desire to engage in it (we know the latter occurs based on those who have railed against it while secretly or eventually succumbing to their desires to engage in it).

 

Moreover why do people make the case that Homosexuality encourages the destruction of children's innocence and well being?

 

Many believe that merely seeing homosexuals engage in intimate, non-sexual behavior will cause children to succumb to the temptations of sin.

 

How do I fit this into my brain? Is there something I am not getting?

 

Doesn't seem like it; it seems, you're fitting it into your brain just fine.

 

Am I mistaking the world for myself?

 

Only if you believe that all in the world see the world as you do.

 

What do I do with these feelings of disgust and rage?

 

Express them in the moment and then let them go. Holding on to such feelings is generally not healthy psychologically or emotionally.

 

How can I make them productive? Are my arguments sounds? What am I not considering?

 

When someone expresses such bigoted ignorance, refute it with the facts for those attempting to be rational, but for those who are simply bigoted and emotional, don't even waste your time beyond speaking your mind. Reason will not reach those who are not convinced by reason, but by emotion. The arguments you've made definitely seem sound. The only thing you might not be considering is that those who make such arguments are attempting to cloak their emotional arguments with reason, i.e., rationalize their position. Reason is their ending point, not their starting point, and they will most likely not be convinced by reason; especialy those that are most devout and fundamentalist in their religious beliefs.

 

[Brainwright]

Homosexuality between two consenting adults requires no initiation of force. Pedophilia must initiate force in order to have a "relationship" in the same way that rape is a relationship.  No matter how much people will try and manipulate their "arguments;" a child has a severely limited concept of what sex, relationships, commitment, love, and reproduction fully entails. They also lack the ability to effectively decline an advance and have agency. Therefore they cannot fully consent.  Please let me know if I am off-base but this seems like the most simple explanation. 

 

I feel physically ill and angry when I hear these things talked about side by side as if they are interchangeable or similar.  Pedophilia is evil and violates the non-aggression principle. Frankly, nothing pisses me off more than the idea of a child being abused.  Why do people make the argument that pedophilia and homosexuality are somehow similar? That is basically saying rape and love making are similar. Moreover why do people make the case that Homosexuality encourages the destruction of children's innocence and well being? I have heard people try to use pedophilia in order to demonize homosexuality and use homosexuality to try and legitimize pedophilia. I despise both threads of sophistry.

 

How do I fit this into my brain? Is there something I am not getting? Am I mistaking the world for myself? What do I do with these feelings of disgust and rage? How can I make them productive? Are my arguments sounds? What am I not considering?

Let me address this as someone who doesn't really approve of your lifestyle.

 

You see, Hell is the state of having your head up your own ass. All sin leads is basically the head's retreat up its own ass. So whether pedophilia or homosexuality, a religiously inclined person like me sees it leading to the same place. Up one's own ass. It stinks there.

 

For the sake of clarity : I'd waggle my finger at a homosexual maybe once or twice and then leave it. You might waggle your finger at me, and then we'd leave it together, hopefully.

 

I'd beat a pedophile for an unspecified amount of time and then come back an hour or two later to see if he/she was alive for medical attention or burial. It's not a religious or rational sentiment, but pure taboo. This is a sin on my part.

 

However, you have to understand that recent political agendas have been associating the two together legally. We keep seeing these attempts to add pedophilia as another gender preference, and it's like playing whack-a-mole with a stick that's had the head cut off. We can't really fight pedophilia as not being a valid gender preference because we say the same thing about homosexuals, and that's been forced down our throats.

 

You're going to start seeing arguments that children can consent, trust me on it. You're going to love the taste when that's forced down your throat, just like we did.

 

We can say it's just morally repugnant, but then plenty of morally repugnant things have been forced on us. So our moral arguments have already been defeated, we see our legal rights to self-determinism as defeated, and there doesn't seem to be much left we can do other than speak out against the entire mess as we see it.

 

Your objection is to the weak arguments that are the only thing those who intellectually disagree with pedophilia have left. You are right to be disgusted by weak arguments.

 

 Unfortunately, only taboo and law is left to hold pedophilia back, and as a religious person, I don't see that lasting much longer.

[Boss]

I believe it comes down to if you believe Homosexuality and Pedophilia are choices.

 

[shirgall]

"As political and economic freedom diminishes, sexual freedom tends compensatingly to increase."

--Aldous Huxley

 

As a counterppoint a famous guy once said in 1986 ( https://w2.eff.org/Misc/EFF/quotes.eff.txt):

"As a free society matures it becomes more permissive, because the converse is too horrible to contemplate."

[ValueOfBrevity]

My question is as follows. Why do I hear things like "Pedophilia naturally follows if you allow homosexuality," or "homosexuality causes pedophilia"?   Full disclosure. I am bisexual but am living in a homosexual relationship. I grew up in a Catholic household and did missionary work of my own volition in the Philippines.  I have since realized that the threat of endless rape and torture inflicted upon those who disagree with an invisible and all powerful being doesn't really allow you to have free will. It is a psychological gun held to my head. 

 

So in the most recent video, The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization | Duke Pesta and Stefan Molyneux, at 26:00 Duke Pesta talks about determinism and how our genes determine who we are. He goes on to say that there is a movement to declassify pedophilia as a mental disorder just as homo.... (sexuality) (yes he didn't finish the word but it seems to follow.) This made me recall several discussions I have had with friends and family a long time ago.

 

Homosexuality between two consenting adults requires no initiation of force. Pedophilia must initiate force in order to have a "relationship" in the same way that rape is a relationship.  No matter how much people will try and manipulate their "arguments;" a child has a severely limited concept of what sex, relationships, commitment, love, and reproduction fully entails. They also lack the ability to effectively decline an advance and have agency. Therefore they cannot fully consent.  Please let me know if I am off-base but this seems like the most simple explanation. 

 

I feel physically ill and angry when I hear these things talked about side by side as if they are interchangeable or similar.  Pedophilia is evil and violates the non-aggression principle. Frankly, nothing pisses me off more than the idea of a child being abused.  Why do people make the argument that pedophilia and homosexuality are somehow similar? That is basically saying rape and love making are similar. Moreover why do people make the case that Homosexuality encourages the destruction of children's innocence and well being? I have heard people try to use pedophilia in order to demonize homosexuality and use homosexuality to try and legitimize pedophilia. I despise both threads of sophistry.

 

How do I fit this into my brain? Is there something I am not getting? Am I mistaking the world for myself? What do I do with these feelings of disgust and rage? How can I make them productive? Are my arguments sounds? What am I not considering?

 

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

Sex with children does not follow from sex with consenting adults.

 

The "slippery slope" is actually a non-sequitur.

[shirgall]

Sex with children does not follow from sex with consenting adults.

 

The "slippery slope" is actually a non-sequitur.

 

Correct, although the NAMBLA people made gave the slope argument credence for decades... they are the equivalent of open carry advocates with poor safety discipline showing up to gun rights rallies.

[EclecticIdealist]

Correct, although the NAMBLA people made gave the slope argument credence for decades... they are the equivalent of open carry advocates with poor safety discipline showing up to gun rights rallies.

More like free speech advocates who want the right to force children to watch the most vile and disgusting acts of depravity known to mankind in grade school, or anti drug prohibitionists who want to give LSD and heroine to kindergarteners.

[EclecticIdealist]

You see, Hell is the state of having your head up your own ass. All sin leads is basically the head's retreat up its own ass. So whether pedophilia or homosexuality, a religiously inclined person like me sees it leading to the same place. Up one's own ass. It stinks there.

 

If Hell is the state of having one's head up one's own ass, then most religious people are in a perpetual state of Hell. (Rom 3:23)

 

For the sake of clarity : I'd waggle my finger at a homosexual maybe once or twice and then leave it. You might waggle your finger at me, and then we'd leave it together, hopefully.

 

Finger waggling is a sin (John 8:7, Matt 7)

 

I'd beat a pedophile for an unspecified amount of time and then come back an hour or two later to see if he/she was alive for medical attention or burial. It's not a religious or rational sentiment, but pure taboo. This is a sin on my part.

 

Yup, another sin on your part, even though I share your extreme bias against abusers of children, especially the rapers of children

 

However, you have to understand that recent political agendas have been associating the two together legally. We keep seeing these attempts to add pedophilia as another gender preference, and it's like playing whack-a-mole with a stick that's had the head cut off. We can't really fight pedophilia as not being a valid gender preference because we say the same thing about homosexuals, and that's been forced down our throats.

 

That sounds like a convenient excuse. While it's certainly true that there are pedophiles who are attempting to justify their behavior by equating it to homosexuality, its by no means a valid comparison in the minds of any but the most religiously irrational and the sexually perverse pedophiles. If your thinking is in line with what pedophiles think about sexuality, you really ought to consider rethinking the matter.

 

You're going to start seeing arguments that children can consent, trust me on it. You're going to love the taste when that's forced down your throat, just like we did.

 

Unfortunately, we've already seen such arguments made by pedophiles. Anyone with any sense can see that children can and often do consent to all kinds of things that are not in their best interests. The proper term is "informed consent" and probably ought to be adjusted further to more clearly encompass not only information, but the capacity to emotionally and psychologically process the information sufficiently to make an uncoerced, fully informed, mature choice... something few young adults are truly fully prepared to do before around the age of 24 when that part of their brain governing judgment and impulse control has fully developed, much less a decade and more earlier. Protecting the vulnerable from exploitation by malicious, callously selfish, and otherwise psychologically unwell individuals is something that virtually all adults, regardless of their sexual orientation can support, especially when such persons are children in mind, if not in body.

 

We can say it's just morally repugnant, but then plenty of morally repugnant things have been forced on us. So our moral arguments have already been defeated, we see our legal rights to self-determinism as defeated, and there doesn't seem to be much left we can do other than speak out against the entire mess as we see it.

 

Now you're simply being ridiculous. Plenty of morally repugnant things are NOT being forced upon you. Yes, in some cases the rights of particularly unChristlike self-professing Christians have been infringed upon where they are compelled by state or local municipalities to perform the morally repugnant act of paying fines and in some cases outrageous tort claims for not baking cakes, taking photographs, providing flowers, or other such services commonly associated with weddings to homosexual couples. However, this and exposure of school children to the reality of homosexual couples with children in such books as "Heather has two mommies" are pretty much the extent of the "morally repugnant" things being forced on religious folk. Moral arguments based on the 2000+ year old writings attributed to a middle eastern deity simply don't hold much weight for those that don't believe in such religious teachings.

 

Your objection is to the weak arguments that are the only thing those who intellectually disagree with pedophilia have left. You are right to be disgusted by weak arguments.

 

That children are incapable of providing informed consent is hardly a weak argument, nor is it an argument that he disagrees or is disgusted with.

 

Unfortunately, only taboo and law is left to hold pedophilia back, and as a religious person, I don't see that lasting much longer.

 

Taboo and the law have historically been enough for most cultures not plagued with religious teachings permitting or even encouraging sex with children. In fact, history teaches us that religions and religious arguments are far more likely to be persuasive in normalizing pedophilia than any secularization of morals by society. It generally takes the sanction of deity for society to allow the abuse of its babies and children.

[Rummycat]

 

You see, Hell is the state of having your head up your own ass. All sin leads is basically the head's retreat up its own ass. So whether pedophilia or homosexuality, a religiously inclined person like me sees it leading to the same place. Up one's own ass. It stinks there.

 

If Hell is the state of having one's head up one's own ass, then most religious people are in a perpetual state of Hell. (Rom 3:23)

 

For the sake of clarity : I'd waggle my finger at a homosexual maybe once or twice and then leave it. You might waggle your finger at me, and then we'd leave it together, hopefully.

 

Finger waggling is a sin (John 8:7, Matt 7)

 

I'd beat a pedophile for an unspecified amount of time and then come back an hour or two later to see if he/she was alive for medical attention or burial. It's not a religious or rational sentiment, but pure taboo. This is a sin on my part.

 

Yup, another sin on your part, even though I share your extreme bias against abusers of children, especially the rapers of children

 

However, you have to understand that recent political agendas have been associating the two together legally. We keep seeing these attempts to add pedophilia as another gender preference, and it's like playing whack-a-mole with a stick that's had the head cut off. We can't really fight pedophilia as not being a valid gender preference because we say the same thing about homosexuals, and that's been forced down our throats.

 

That sounds like a convenient excuse. While it's certainly true that there are pedophiles who are attempting to justify their behavior by equating it to homosexuality, its by no means a valid comparison in the minds of any but the most religiously irrational and the sexually perverse pedophiles. If your thinking is in line with what pedophiles think about sexuality, you really ought to consider rethinking the matter.

 

You're going to start seeing arguments that children can consent, trust me on it. You're going to love the taste when that's forced down your throat, just like we did.

 

Unfortunately, we've already seen such arguments made by pedophiles. Anyone with any sense can see that children can and often do consent to all kinds of things that are not in their best interests. The proper term is "informed consent" and probably ought to be adjusted further to more clearly encompass not only information, but the capacity to emotionally and psychologically process the information sufficiently to make an uncoerced, fully informed, mature choice... something few young adults are truly fully prepared to do before around the age of 24 when that part of their brain governing judgment and impulse control has fully developed, much less a decade and more earlier. Protecting the vulnerable from exploitation by malicious, callously selfish, and otherwise psychologically unwell individuals is something that virtually all adults, regardless of their sexual orientation can support, especially when such persons are children in mind, if not in body.

 

We can say it's just morally repugnant, but then plenty of morally repugnant things have been forced on us. So our moral arguments have already been defeated, we see our legal rights to self-determinism as defeated, and there doesn't seem to be much left we can do other than speak out against the entire mess as we see it.

 

Now you're simply being ridiculous. Plenty of morally repugnant things are NOT being forced upon you. Yes, in some cases the rights of particularly unChristlike self-professing Christians have been infringed upon where they are compelled by state or local municipalities to perform the morally repugnant act of paying fines and in some cases outrageous tort claims for not baking cakes, taking photographs, providing flowers, or other such services commonly associated with weddings to homosexual couples. However, this and exposure of school children to the reality of homosexual couples with children in such books as "Heather has two mommies" are pretty much the extent of the "morally repugnant" things being forced on religious folk. Moral arguments based on the 2000+ year old writings attributed to a middle eastern deity simply don't hold much weight for those that don't believe in such religious teachings.

 

Your objection is to the weak arguments that are the only thing those who intellectually disagree with pedophilia have left. You are right to be disgusted by weak arguments.

 

That children are incapable of providing informed consent is hardly a weak argument, nor is it an argument that he disagrees or is disgusted with.

 

Unfortunately, only taboo and law is left to hold pedophilia back, and as a religious person, I don't see that lasting much longer.

 

Taboo and the law have historically been enough for most cultures not plagued with religious teachings permitting or even encouraging sex with children. In fact, history teaches us that religions and religious arguments are far more likely to be persuasive in normalizing pedophilia than any secularization of morals by society. It generally takes the sanction of deity for society to allow the abuse of its babies and children.

 

This really made my day! Thank you!

[Mister Mister]

 I think there is a confusion of several ideas: homosexuality, homosexual rights, and radical, sexually permissive cultural Marxism.

 

  There are questions of how much is choice, how much genes, how much environment and so on.  Religious fundamentalists who say it is all choice are totally full of shit.  However, liberals who say it is entirely "born that way" are not necessarily correct either.  It's possible that there is a good deal of choice, and the more that the gender wars escalate, and traditional monogamous heterosexual relationships become dangerous and put down, the more men and women will choose homosexuality.  Total speculation, but it's something I've thought about. 

  As far as homosexual rights, there are varying degrees.  It used to be that gays were just pushing back against violence, when cops used to raid gay bars and beat the crap out of them.  In many parts of the world this is still a huge issue.  Anyone with any ounce of compassion I think ought to at least recognize this as a big problem.  A more delicate issue is the ordeal that children who are born homosexual go through in religious families who don't accept this choice.  I remember a call with Stef, titled "coming out of the closet", with a young black man in this situation that was really heart-wrenching.  This kind of shaming I think ought to be condemned, though I will say the open hostility towards Christianity from much of the gay community isn't helping.  Then there is gay marriage which I consider a total non-issue.  The huge majority of gays are not interested in either monogamy or adoption, they mostly just want to be "married" for certain legal/tax perks, which could be dealt with through private arbitration without going to the State.  I used to support gay marriage until people started going around shutting down Christian bakeries and bed and breakfasts (but never Muslim ones) for refusing to bake a cake or perform a ceremony.

  Then there is the radical Cultural Marxism element, which is where the pedophilia issue comes in.  It's true that you will see a push to "normalize" more and more degeneracy, while ridiculing and undermining traditional sexual relations, including an attempt to normalize pedophilia, which we are starting to see.  I'm sure you all willl agree this is repulsive and should be completely rejected.  There is also the issue of gay men and the "degenerate lifestyle".  I think this is natural, given that there is no risk of pregnancy, and that men seem to be able to separate emotion and sex better.  But what annoys me is the way, a small subversive element of the gay media portrays this as healthy for heterosexuals to pursue i.e. Sex and the City, Dan Savage, etc.  Gays don't really have any position to talk about male/female relations IMO

  So it's a mistake to lump all homosexuality in with anti-family, moral relativist propaganda.  Gays could be great friends of libertarian, alt-right, conservatives, whatever.  Like Jews, I don't think they are people you want to have as an enemy - they tend to be high IQ and very creative.  I think the key is to push back against certain subversive elements in the culture.  Gays are people, they have a different perspective and can offer great things, but they are also capable of being wrong and should be subject to criticism like everyone else.  Of course putting them in a protected victim class is not productive.  I just think there is a sensible middle-ground, where we can recognize that a small % of the population has a natural tendency towards homosexuality, which is fine, but also celebrate and encourage traditional, healthy and positive male/female relations.

[The Underthinker]

The slippery slope argument itself is a weak one. We make it illegal to drive through a red traffic light and are not afraid that this will be a slippery slope to not be allowed to drive at all. You always want to strike a good, sensible balance with laws. If you lean too far on your left foot and are in danger of falling over, you don't stop yourself from moving right because leaning on your right foot extremely will tip you over in the other direction.

 

 

Now with that said, it has been gay organizations that have most frequently brought forth demands for a lower age of consent in my country. I think the guy doing the "safer school" thing in US or canada has a similar history.

 

There is such a power imbalance between kids and adults that kids really can't consent. Any adult that deals with kids selfishly is not a good person and sex is inherently selfish.

[The Underthinker]

Rosecodex, how do you know it's only a small subsection of the gay community that pushes this? Dan Savage is hugely popular. How do you know it isn't like the negative view of homosexuality amongst muslims? They may not all speak up for it every day but tacitly support a certain position.

[dsayers]

Pedophilia must initiate force

Pedophilia is a preference, not a behavior. Did you mean child rape?