I'm going to be on Ukranian TV debating Trump vs Clinton...

[jroseland]

For the first time in my life I'm going to be doing a televised debate with a Hillary supporter (actually a DNC Hilary delegate) in Kiev where I live.

 

I'd like to get some feedback from you guys; I suspect my opening statement is where I will really win or lose the debate. Here's the rough version of my opening statement

 

There's one issue in this debate that's more important to me than any other and I'll make case of why it should be the most important to you - especially because you are here in Kiev - that issue is war. 

I hate war, if there's one thing that makes me truly ashamed about my country it's that my country has been waging war on the rest of the world for so long now. There is a mountain of smoldering bodies reaching to the sky because of the foreign policy of the United States for last 20 years. And it has accomplished nothing, trillions of dollars and millions of bodies later, we have nothing to show for the wars of aggression that the Republicans and the Democrats waged.

There are three criteria which indicate what our potential leaders are going to do, these are the three criteria we should use to judge our potential leaders

1. The financial incentives they have (the most important)
   
2. Their past behavior


3. What they say they are going to do

Hillary Clinton will mean more war; she's already said that she will use military force with Russia, she has made a career of using military force and she has taken __ millions of dollars from the Military Industrial Complex.

War between the US and Russia maybe really bad for the Ukraine, for the people in this room and Trump is the bet for averting that. Trump is the isolationist candidate, if you've read Trump's books you'll know that his expertise is in making win-win deals. That's why he's a billionaire. Trump is in the business of selling luxury condos, silk neck ties and inspirational books. He gains nothing from the world being at war.

In 6 months if Kiev is being shelled by Russian artillery and people are dying in the streets because a hot war has broken out between the US and Russia, because the elites in Washington D.C have poked the Russian bear one too many times, will you really care about Trump University, some politically incorrect thing that Trump said flippantly about women or any of the relatively petty Trump issues that me and Reno are going to be debating here tonight.

 

I suspect that the audience is going to be pretty left leaning being. I think the moderator is a liberal, I've already gotten a bad vibe from him, so I'll be at a bit of a disadvantage there. My challenge will be making arguments quickly before the moderator or my opponent cuts me off...

 

My strategy

In my opening statement I'm making a really strong moral positioning

I'm going to try to frame the debate by explaining that we should look at Trump and Hillary a little different since one is a private businessman and the other is a life long, highly compensated public servant.

• I'm going to emphasize that all of the criticisms of trump are conspiracy theories which can be debated back and forth
  
• Whereas Hillary's scandals are pretty plain black and white, especially the email scandal

I'm going to focus on the email scandal because it's an easy case for Hilary's incompetence, since it's so recent and irrefutable

I'm going to focus on the likelihood of a US-Russia war under Clinton, which will be very bad for the Ukraine

I suspect my primary challenge will be the accusation of Trump's racism

• I'll emphasize that in history whenever we see racism associated with war, slavery, genocide it's almost always explicit racism where people are totally upfront about.
  
• Trump has created +30,000 jobs which many have been filled by minorities


• I'm going to specify the difference between expressing benign racial preferences

I'm sure we are going to discuss immigration;

• I'll make the point that the elites in the United States are trying to do something weird which is to turn one country with a distinctive cultural, ideological, ethnic, religious makeup into a completely different country with a different cultural, ideological, ethnic, religious makeup. The elites never asked the American people if that's what they wanted. There was no public discussion. This will be the election where people decide if that's what they want.
  

Trump is going to be called a charlatan and a scammer

I'll respond that in America true charlatans and scammers go to jail. Bernie Madoff, Martha Stewart and Jordan Belfort (The Wolf of Wall Street guy) all had the best attorneys that money could buy yet they went to jail. If Trump is such a scammer why hasn't he ever gone to jail?

I'm going also going to make a more emotional cases

 

I welcome any suggestions, I haven't done a televised debate before. I appreciate any factoids or really damning quotes you guys can share with me that support the arguments I'm going to try to make...

 

Thanks!

 

[Donnadogsoth]

Hi jroseland,

 

Congratulations on your assignment.  As a Trump supporter I'll help if I can.

 

In any attempt at persuasion you need to include ethos, pathos, and logos.

 

Ethos is your personal character and credibility.  "Who is doing the talking here, why should we believe anything he has to say?"  So that means be punctilious in your grooming, posture, take it easy and smile (really smile, like you're glad to be alive and it's a privilege to be here), don't be grim.  And if you can fit in any credentials, degrees etc, in an understated way (don't come across as self-important), that's helpful too.

 

Pathos is your appeal to the animal brain, "the emotions" or "the passions" of the audience.  Talking about smouldering mountains of bodies is not logos, it's pathos.  A purely human debate would have no such dramatic flairs, it would just be pure rational argument. Beware emotionalism since it can give your debating partner an in on manipulating you using your animal brain. Even if you use the height of passionate rhetoric you should remain cool as a cucumber inside.

 

Logos is your rational argument, your logic, your evidence, the appeal to the human mind's conceptualising ability.  With logos you are attempting to access the systematisation tendency in your audience, getting them to think on a "higher level".

 

Do all three things better than your opponent, in the eyes of the audience, and you win. Remember that you're not trying to persuade your opponent, he or she is already nailed to the cross of their position and is immovable.  You're trying to persuade the audience, seen or unseen, that you are right.

 

On to Trump himself. The thing to understand about his platform is that it is threefold, and each of the three planks can be reduced to a single descriptive word. Trump's agenda is to:

 

1. Stop the immigration invasion. For America's part, this means both the illegal part and the immoral part. Stopping the illegal part means securing the Mexican border. Stopping the immoral part means denying entry to terrorists and terrorist sympathisers such as adherents of Sharia law.

 

2. Destroy ISIS. This means launching a war against the orthodox Islamic terror state of ISIS to destroy it. If any state needed to be destroyed, ISIS is it. The more it is allowed to consolidate its gains, grow its power, and spread its franchises across the Moslem world and into the Western world, the more terrorism, subjugation, organised crime, Sharia law, and other barbaric practises we can expect to suffer from.

 

3. Save the economy. In particular, stop the British Free Trade system (TPP, NAFTA, etc.) fostered by the elite banking, aristocratic, and corporate interests and replace it with laws and policies more in line with what is known as the American System of protectionism and development of domestic industry. If we want jobs and industry in America, we will protect them from predatory free trade globalism.

 

These three things reduce to three words, which Trump has not spoken as summaries of his platform, to my knowledge, but which underpin psychologically these planks. They are:

 

Stop the immigration invasion = IDENTITY. The Western man is in an existential identity crisis, not knowing who he is or what he stands for. The professors, media, and politicians have supplied for him the queasy drug of “diversity” and “multiculturalism” guilt-tripping him into inviting in the world, no matter how unassimilable, and, so, creating an uneasy oil-and-water mosaic in our countries. Trump represents a more solid identity for America, a renewed pride, one that rejects Sharia and uncontrolled immigration, and which will embolden the other Western countries to proudly reaffirm their own identities.

 

Destroy ISIS = SECURITY. The West is entangled in a confrontational attitude towards Russia and China, and has spent itself waging wars and proxy wars across the world as part of an Anglo-American imperial posture. Now the orthodox Islamic threat, materially created by American foreign policy, must be dealt with. Trump as a family man has nothing to gain by war with Russia or China, and is committed to solving the problem (ISIS) that was created by his predecessors.

 

Save the economy = ECONOMY. Without an economy man has nothing. No family, no city, no agriculture, industry, or commerce, and no nations. Trump is intimately familiar with economics as a practical science and will attack the economic ills of America, and by example the world which in former days envied America for its economic system.

 

Without identity, security, and economy, there is no liberty. You cannot be free if you have no identity, no roots from which to grow. You cannot be free if there is no security and you fear for your life and your family's well-being. And you cannot be free if there is no economy, leaving you to starve in penury.

 

These three ideas explain why Donald Trump should become the 45th President of the United States.

[EclecticIdealist]

I agree with the approach recommended by Donnadosoth; however I have a few things to consider:

 

Review Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals".  Almost every rule is particularly suited to a televised debate, regardless of which side of the political aisle you are on.  Pay particularly close attention to Rules 2 & 3 about areas of expertise, as well as Rule 5 about the effective use of Ridicule. Also take a few cues of the politicians who always avoid answering the question asked of them and instead answer the question they wish they had been asked.  Be sure to keep things friendly, funny, and the ridicule pointed, but light. Keep reminding the audience of all the questions your opponent has failed to answer while dismissing any questions asked of you that you refuse to answer as being sophmorish, immature, and irrelevant, etc. First and foremost, make it entertaining and you'll be more likely to win the audience to your side, even if they don't agree with your position. The more you can make your opponent unlikable and seem mean-spirited, angry, or in some other way unlikable, the better.

[Mister Mister]

That's awesome.  It sounds like you have a good strategy.  I would add that you ought to practice certain things you want to say, as you will be dealing with adrenaline, nervousness, increased heart rate, etc...  I would also add that you should watch and learn from people who have been successful in this same area, inserting juicy soundbites against a biased moderator...Milo comes to mind.

Just please don't imitate Alex Jones on Piers Morgan.

[Tyler H]

That's really cool man, is there a way for us to watch in the states?

[AccuTron]

Good for you, jroseland, at many levels!

 

Don't mention Martha Stewart..."She's a girl!"  Anyone with any sense will already be reviled by Hillary.  She has lots of support because, ya' know, she's a guuurrrrlllll.  It is foundational to feminism that no female is ever guilty of any crime no matter a hot smoking gun in her hand.  It will be enough for these minds to handle that even one girrrrlllll is a wrongdoer.  Two girls will blow fuses.

[jroseland]

That's really cool man, is there a way for us to watch in the states?

Thanks! Yep here's a few highlights...

[Tyler H]

 

 

 

 

Good job dude, thanks for sharing!