Relationship advice: obsessive thoughts about partner's past

[Libertarian Prepper]

Hey there,

 

I'm hoping to get some advice on an issue I've been "dealing" with since I started my current relationship about 9 months ago. Basically, I seem to have an issue with my girlfriend's sexual past, specifically the fact that she's not a virgin. Here's a summary:

 

- She's has sex with one partner before me, which by modern standards is significantly less than average for a 25 year-old, and I recognize that. It was also as part of a long-term relationship, so not a casual one-night stand or anything like that.

- I've had two sexual partners in the past, so I'm not a virgin either (I'm 26). Any judgement and issues I have with her past I should (and attempt to) equally apply to myself. I'm well aware that if I consistently applied an idea such as "having a sexual past is a dealbreaker" it would mean I would never date anyone else. On a rational level I think prior attempts at relationships and mistakes should not be dealbreakers (I suppose depending on the details).

 

Unfortunately, on an emotional level I am frequently bothered by images of her sexual past in my head. I imagine way more graphic detail than I'd like and it's emotionally painful. Sometimes it interferes with our intimacy... Since in our relationship we have a strong emphasis on honesty, sharing, and RTR, we made the mistake of over-sharing some details about our past that wasn't necessary. Partly that was her mistake for telling me certain graphic details I didn't ask for, and sometimes mine for asking.

 

She did also on a couple of occasions put herself in dangerous situations a few years ago (before we met) and that bothered me a lot when she first told me, but less so over time. It's the thoughts of her non-virginity that don't seem to be calming down.

 

I've tried to deal with what I consider "obsessive" thoughts/images with therapy. Both of us actually did some IFS therapy quite actively near the start of our relationship, which I think was very helpful. I did about 20 sessions but then I basically ran into money issues (and found out over time that my therapist was a spiritualist that believed in souls and life after death, indeed claimed she had "experienced" it, which made me unable to take her seriously) so I had to pause a few months back.

 

Since I can't afford therapy right now, I figured maybe someone here could offer some helpful advice because whatever thought processes I've attempted so far (including googling advice on the issue) haven't turned out fruitful.

 

I'm not sure what the root cause of these thoughts is. Perhaps finding that would help? For whatever reason, in my mind virginity in a partner is important. I'm not entirely sure where this belief originated from. It's not religious brainwashing, as my parents were vaguely Jewish but there was little indoctrination and I've been an atheist since I was 15/16. Since I was a kid I did however have this fantasy in my mind that I would find a partner, we'd both be virgins, and that we'd fall in love and stay together forever. I still think that might be the best possible outcome, but maybe not a realistic one, especially when both our ACE scores were pretty high (mine's a 6 and hers a 5). We both agree that if we knew of each other's existence from the beginning we would never have dated anyone else, but unfortunately for us both it was a journey of mistakes and standards that were too low and only gradually increased.

 

One lead I have that I discovered through therapy is a strong fear of STDs (which relates to a traumatic event with my ex). However, we both got tested before we did anything and another time since then and all is well.

 

Another idea is that I've had trouble forgiving/accepting myself for my own sexual history (I dropped my standards and ignored huge red flags and it bit me later), so perhaps if I'm not able to even forgive myself, how could I forgive/accept my partner?

 

We like each other a lot and if I could focus better on the "now" of the relationship I think our ratio of good/healthy to bad/unhealthy interactions would be about 95/5. That ratio didn't start out this high but it's been improving pretty consistently since we've both been working on it (that's one of the reasons we both did therapy in our first few months). Unfortunately, whenever I get triggered and start thinking of her past, it interferes with the now...

 

Any advice/thoughts/input/insight?

[powder]

Woah, an ACE score of 6!  Mine is around 4 and that cooked my corn pretty good.  check into how you were programmed at a young age by your caregivers - you know what the Jesuits say:  "give me a child til he is 7 and he is mine for life".  take a good luck at the relationship with your mother or female caregiver in particular I would suggest.  good luck.  

[Pod]

I'm not a therapist so enter at your own risk, but I have some questions I need clarified before I can respond with what I've got cooking so far. 

 

1. What was the time gap between your current girlfriend and your last ex?

2. What is the narrator saying as you watch these unpleasant fantasies in your head? Just stream of consciousness.  Doesn't have to be articulate. 

3. Could you give some examples of these dangerous situations you say she was in?

4. Why is virginity a virtue for you?  Would the same standard apply to a woman who'd lost her partner to an illness? 

[Tyler H]

Are you able to pinpoint the feelings you experience when these thoughts surface?  I often have trouble accurately identifying what emotion I am feeling, and since you described your reaction to your girlfriends sexual history as bothersome and emotionally painful this is the first thing that came to my mind to ask.  I find these emotion wheels helpful during this process.

 

 

[Libertarian Prepper]

Thanks Tyler! I'll keep that bookmarked and have a look at it next time I get these triggering feelings. I have some vague idea of the feelings but I'd rather be as precise as possible, so I'll report back with what I find out when I get triggered again.

[thecurrentyear]

My question for you is: where is this relationship headed? I could be wrong, but my inclination is to think that if you were certain the next girl you dated would be the one you would marry, and she were it, that more careful attention would've been paid prior to consummating the relationship. Not saying you can't fix things now, but based on your intro it seemed as if you would've been more serious about not getting into a sexual relationship (again) unless it was definitely going to be your last. I'm sorry if that's not helpful. It may only be half a thought and I'll have more come to mind later, but that's what popped up for me as I was reading your post. All the best to you both.

[st434u]

Well it doesn't apply equally to her as it does to you.

 

Men evolutionarily prefer a mate who is a virgin because someone's who's not a virgin could potentially be pregnant with someone else's child when you start the relationship, and then as the pregnancy progresses he'd naturally assume he's the father. What's more, the more sexual partners she's had, the more likely she is to be a slut, and thus be low value, at least from that perspective.

 

Women rarely care much if their potential mate is a virgin or not, because while it's true that in a modern society, a man who's not a virgin could've gotten someone else pregnant without his knowledge, and thus potentially be on the hook for child support (and this can come up several years after the impregnation took place, which is not the case for women), you also have to consider that in most of our evolutionary history, tribes were polygynous, meaning only one or a few men would father children with a lot of women, and resources were provided to his children by every other male in the tribe due to his status. What's more, the more sexual partners he's had, the more likely he is to be a stud, and thus be high value, at least from that perspective.

 

All that said, you knew full well going into the relationship that she wasn't a virgin, so you've got no right making a big deal out of it at this point. If you guys now break up because you can't deal with the fact that she's had another boyfriend before, how do you think her future potential mates will feel about the fact that she's had not one, but two previous failed relationships? If you weren't sure you could deal with this, then why did you have sex with her under the pretenses of a lifelong relationship?

 

My advice may be crude, but I think you just gotta bite the bullet and do what's right. Man up, and deal with it. Life isn't all rainbows and roses, and you gotta own the decisions you've already made. She's not perfect, and obviously neither are you.

[dsayers]

Almost all of the women I've been with was prior to self-knowledge. In every single one of those relationships, I was obsessed with my partners' pasts and that I wasn't the only one. Near as I can tell, my obsession had two main roots. The first being that I was focusing outwardly in an attempt to avoid focusing on myself (don't like for Miss Right, BE Mister Right). The second being because I was a narcissist in keeping with my original programming. It was an affront to me that they could "do such a thing to me" even though we hadn't met, and it's a very unrealistic expectation to begin with.

 

In the one virtuous relationship I've been in since self-knowledge, I was NOT obsessed with my partner's past. I WAS angry with every last person who had abused her and/or groomed her for such abuse. I was empathetic towards the suffering she had endured. I was very pleased that it hadn't manifested by way of STDs or pregnancies. We were able to share some very passionate love-making. This was after we had processed some of our own sexual histories together as well. I remember it was particularly meaningful to her that we were abused, but (not counting my circumcision) none of it led to being permanently robbed of enjoying such things in healthy ways.

 

I wouldn't dare try to universalize my own experience or project it onto you. I just thought I'd share my observations in hopes that maybe you can see some of yourself or your partner in there.

[ValueOfBrevity]

You are jealous because you are insecure.

When you imagine her fucking other guys in your head, you are essentially "worrying" that these past experiences will affect your current relationship. 

Memories and imaginings of past events are still present thought processes.
In other words, you are making believe that she's cheating on you; you feel betrayed.
Much of the negative feelings you have are tied up in this illusion.

 

[thecurrentyear]

Perhaps this other thread will offer helpful context: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/46502-in-need-of-a-third-perspective-on-my-relationship/

[EclecticIdealist]

It's easy to say "get over it" or "her past is none of your concern, only her present and her future desires". It's another thing to be psychologically and emotionally mature and/or healed/recovered enough to be there.

Basically, I seem to have an issue with my girlfriend's sexual past, specifically the fact that she's not a virgin.

 

Is it possible that it's not her past you have an issue with but your own? I'm not saying that it is, only suggesting that many (not all) times the things that bother us the most about others are things that bother us the most (if only unconsciously) about ourselves. Kevin Smith actually made a movie about, among other things, just such a scenario, called "Chasing Amy". Consider it a cautionary tale.

 

Unfortunately, on an emotional level I am frequently bothered by images of her sexual past in my head. I imagine way more graphic detail than I'd like and it's emotionally painful.

 

As you imagine these images from her past, try to hone in on exactly what bothers you about these images. Go beyond the surface level... by that I mean, suppose you were bothered by someone's past addiction to eating junk food, that it really bothered you a lot to the point that even thinking about them eating junk food really upsets you. You might imagine that what bothers you is the visual of the act of consumption, but that's just the surface, it's NOT what really bothers you about it. It will be something more. It may be something it says to you about a person's susceptibility to consuming junk food instead of a more healthy diet. It may be that you imagine that they are weak-willed when it comes to temptation that is clearly harmful to them. Or it may be that it bothers you because you see a lot of yourself in that person and it's something you have not fully come to terms with and resolved about yourself. (As a point of full-disclosure, this is an issue that I personally struggle with).

 

It's the thoughts of her non-virginity that don't seem to be calming down. ... For whatever reason, in my mind virginity in a partner is important.

 

What does a person's virginity mean to you? Specifically, what does a woman's virginity mean to you? Why do you consider it important? What does it say about the woman? What does your own (previous) virginity mean to you? Do you consider it important? If you could reverse your choices and be a virgin, would you do so and why or why not?

 

I'm not sure what the root cause of these thoughts is.  ... Since I was a kid I did however have this fantasy in my mind that I would find a partner, we'd both be virgins, and that we'd fall in love and stay together forever. We both agree that if we knew of each other's existence from the beginning we would never have dated anyone else, but unfortunately for us both it was a journey of mistakes and standards that were too low and only gradually increased.

 

I believe you're not consciously aware of it yet, but I believe your subconscious has all the answers for that. Meaning is something we impute, it's not something that is inherent.

 

One lead I have that I discovered through therapy is a strong fear of STDs (which relates to a traumatic event with my ex). Another idea is that I've had trouble forgiving/accepting myself for my own sexual history (I dropped my standards and ignored huge red flags and it bit me later), so perhaps if I'm not able to even forgive myself, how could I forgive/accept my partner?

 

This sounds to me like a big area to look at. The biggest regrets we will ever have in our lives are regrets over acts of self-betrayal; the second biggest, over the betrayal of others we love and who love us. These are the most difficult decisions in our lives that we will ever have to make amends for, to those we have harmed, including to ourselves for those acts of betrayal. Once we are able to accomplish that, we are free to move forward unburdened from the pain of carrying those decisions around with us.

 

We like each other a lot and if I could focus better on the "now" of the relationship I think our ratio of good/healthy to bad/unhealthy interactions would be about 95/5.

 

Unresolved issues have a way of creeping back up over time and getting in the way of intimacy. That is why it is usually best to resolve significant traumas before attempting significant, life-long romantic relationships. However, if you are with a partner who is also committed to becoming healthy, though it can be a struggle, you can make the journey together. Just understand that as you do so, there may be times when the intimacy may be much, much more difficult and require much, much greater commitment and patience than would normally be required if you were both in a better place.

[Tyler H]

I agree with much of what Eclectic said.

[Libertarian Prepper]

@Eclectic: I found your post very helpful, thank you. After reading it a few days ago in the morning I had quite an emotional reaction and started journaling. I think your point resonated a lot with me: it is primarily about me, and not about her. I think I've been avoiding my feelings about my own sexual past as a way of avoiding pain, and instead that's been spilling out in the form of feelings about my girlfriend. Perhaps because she's made some bad mistakes in the same category as me, it's easier to feel my pain through her, sort of? Not sure if that makes sense.

 

It's easy to say "get over it" or "her past is none of your concern, only her present and her future desires". It's another thing to be psychologically and emotionally mature and/or healed/recovered enough to be there.

 

Yeah... I feel like some of the comments people have left, especially stuff like "man up", are not helpful at all. You don't heal emotional trauma by "manning up", that's called dissociation and it's at best temporary. That's also somewhat of a trigger word for me as my mother used to tell me that whenever I didn't want to obey one of her commandments.

 

"It may be something it says to you about a person's susceptibility to consuming junk food instead of a more healthy diet. It may be that you imagine that they are weak-willed when it comes to temptation that is clearly harmful to them."

 

I think you might be onto something with this. I do worry about her choices and how she would behave in similar situations today. (See below for an example.)

 

What does a person's virginity mean to you? Specifically, what does a woman's virginity mean to you? Why do you consider it important? What does it say about the woman? What does your own (previous) virginity mean to you? Do you consider it important? If you could reverse your choices and be a virgin, would you do so and why or why not?

 

I guess to me when I think of virginity I think of things like "purity" and "innocence". Very fairy tale kind of stuff. Or maybe not. Maybe there's something in there about losing one's childhood... Especially since both losing your virginity and losing your childhood (to e.g. abusive parents) are irreversible in similar ways. You can't go back and have a good childhood. Once that's taken away from you, that's it. Makes me quite sad...

 

If I could reverse my choices, I would not necessarily still be a virgin (I think it's likely that 9 months in we would have consummated the relationship, I don't have any regrets about my girlfriend, only about how quickly we did it), but I would definitely take back losing it to the person I lost it to.

 

This sounds to me like a big area to look at. The biggest regrets we will ever have in our lives are regrets over acts of self-betrayal; the second biggest, over the betrayal of others we love and who love us. These are the most difficult decisions in our lives that we will ever have to make amends for, to those we have harmed, including to ourselves for those acts of betrayal. Once we are able to accomplish that, we are free to move forward unburdened from the pain of carrying those decisions around with us.

 

I think you're excruciatingly correct. I absolutely did betray myself, my emotions (by sharing with someone it wasn't safe to share with), and my body (by exposing it to someone who wasn't healthy and lied to me about it). And the worst thing is that all the red flags were there. I just ignored them. I have some suspicion as to why: a combination of low self-esteem and being drilled into me by my parents that I'm a bad person, and therefore deserve to be punished.

 

I think I need to examine my own self-betrayal more. Thank you for highlighting this to me!

 

Unresolved issues have a way of creeping back up over time and getting in the way of intimacy. That is why it is usually best to resolve significant traumas before attempting significant, life-long romantic relationships. However, if you are with a partner who is also committed to becoming healthy, though it can be a struggle, you can make the journey together. Just understand that as you do so, there may be times when the intimacy may be much, much more difficult and require much, much greater commitment and patience than would normally be required if you were both in a better place.

 

Yes, I agree... I think I started dating too soon without processing all my traumas. Even the 1.5 years I waited was too soon as I wasn't actively self-knowledging and healing. Most of my focus was on immigrating to another country and getting a stable job for the first time in my life.

 

My girlfriend was worse: she only gave it a week before she started dating and we started talking online, and her prior relationship lasted a lot longer than mine.

 

There are times when we have to be really patient with each other and intimacy is difficult, but I think our commitment to self-growth, to each other, and to each other's health is strong. I think in many ways this relationship has both helped unearth and bring to light a lot of issues, but also been quite healing in terms of the love and care I've experienced for the first time in my life.

 

Are you able to pinpoint the feelings you experience when these thoughts surface?  I often have trouble accurately identifying what emotion I am feeling, and since you described your reaction to your girlfriends sexual history as bothersome and emotionally painful this is the first thing that came to my mind to ask.  I find these emotion wheels helpful during this process.

 

So, I've been referring to this wheel the past few days when I've felt triggered and it seems like there's three main emotions (although it's somewhat hard to identify sometimes):

 

- Despair (powerlessness), whenever I imagine that I'm going to be enslaved to these feelings and images for the rest of my life (assuming we stay together for the rest of our lives). This feeling also comes with a kind of hopelessness that the relationship is therefore doomed and I should break up. I know there are parts of my subconscious that believe relationships are extremely dangerous, both emotionally and physically (as I mentioned, I have some bad history with my ex and STDs). Based on my journaling this starts as far back as my mother and is only reinforced with my experiences with other women before I met my girlfriend. In IFS terminology, these parts are able to generate all kinds of feelings and images with the end-goal of getting me to break up and get out of a dangerous situation. They're called "protectors" and are essentially survival mechanisms.

 

I think some of the powerlessness may also be about changing the past, both mine and hers...

 

- Revulsion. I think this closely ties to the above.

 

- Judgemental. I judge her for her choices. This feeling doesn't always come up, sometimes it's just the other two. I suspect I'm actually judging myself but taking it out on her, so to speak.

 

You are jealous because you are insecure.

When you imagine her fucking other guys in your head, you are essentially "worrying" that these past experiences will affect your current relationship. 

Memories and imaginings of past events are still present thought processes.
In other words, you are making believe that she's cheating on you; you feel betrayed.
Much of the negative feelings you have are tied up in this illusion.

 

It is true that I am insecure and I've felt jealousy too, though not often when I get triggered for this in particular.

Do you have any suggestions for how to break out of this illusion?

 

My question for you is: where is this relationship headed? I could be wrong, but my inclination is to think that if you were certain the next girl you dated would be the one you would marry, and she were it, that more careful attention would've been paid prior to consummating the relationship. Not saying you can't fix things now, but based on your intro it seemed as if you would've been more serious about not getting into a sexual relationship (again) unless it was definitely going to be your last. I'm sorry if that's not helpful. It may only be half a thought and I'll have more come to mind later, but that's what popped up for me as I was reading your post. All the best to you both.

 

I think you're right, and we've discussed before that we jumped the gun too quickly. Something that says a lot about both of us. I would very much like this relationship to be my last, though. That's why I spent money on therapy despite being worried about my money situation, and why I'm here asking for help.

 

Almost all of the women I've been with was prior to self-knowledge. In every single one of those relationships, I was obsessed with my partners' pasts and that I wasn't the only one. Near as I can tell, my obsession had two main roots. The first being that I was focusing outwardly in an attempt to avoid focusing on myself (don't like for Miss Right, BE Mister Right). The second being because I was a narcissist in keeping with my original programming. It was an affront to me that they could "do such a thing to me" even though we hadn't met, and it's a very unrealistic expectation to begin with.

 

In the one virtuous relationship I've been in since self-knowledge, I was NOT obsessed with my partner's past. I WAS angry with every last person who had abused her and/or groomed her for such abuse. I was empathetic towards the suffering she had endured. I was very pleased that it hadn't manifested by way of STDs or pregnancies. We were able to share some very passionate love-making. This was after we had processed some of our own sexual histories together as well. I remember it was particularly meaningful to her that we were abused, but (not counting my circumcision) none of it led to being permanently robbed of enjoying such things in healthy ways.

 

I wouldn't dare try to universalize my own experience or project it onto you. I just thought I'd share my observations in hopes that maybe you can see some of yourself or your partner in there.

 

"The first being that I was focusing outwardly in an attempt to avoid focusing on myself" This sounds like what I've been doing, too.

 

I've felt a fair bit of anger, also. As well as compassion, because she came from a broken childhood, too. Usually when I feel compassion, the other feelings sort of "wash away", but it doesn't come up that often. Sometimes the anger I feel is at the people who abused her, and sometimes (if she was an adult by then), at her for putting herself in that situation. I think the latter is also an anger at myself for similar mistakes.

 

I'm not a therapist so enter at your own risk, but I have some questions I need clarified before I can respond with what I've got cooking so far. 

 

1. What was the time gap between your current girlfriend and your last ex?

2. What is the narrator saying as you watch these unpleasant fantasies in your head? Just stream of consciousness.  Doesn't have to be articulate. 

3. Could you give some examples of these dangerous situations you say she was in?

4. Why is virginity a virtue for you?  Would the same standard apply to a woman who'd lost her partner to an illness? 

 

1. The time gap for me was over 1.5 years. After the horrendous betrayal I experienced from my ex, I couldn't even imagine so much as touching another woman for about a year. That took a while to "recover" from and I'm pretty sure there's a lot left to heal. At one point I even did NoFap for 3 months, in retrospect as a way of rejecting my sexuality I think, since I blamed it for getting me in that mess in the first place.

 

2. I don't think there's that much of a narrator actually. Then again... I think I do hear things like "Is it always going to be like this?", i.e. am I always going to see these images. That one comes with despair. I think when I feel disgust it's more like "Why would she do that?"

 

3. A few years ago she "dated" a guy who when alone with her would start to grope her even when she asked him not to. He also kept saying he didn't want a relationship. She felt uncomfortable with it but was also desperate for attention, and persisted in that "relationship" for a few months. She kept seeing him despite him ignoring her lack of consent. It never got to rape, thankfully, but her continued exposure to that man put her in danger and traumatised her, and says (or said) a lot about her past. It makes me feel worried and insecure because I wonder how much of a fight she would put up if something like that happened again. I think after the third time it happened she finally stopped seeing him alone, and tried to make sure others were around, until she finally broke things off. To me, the biggest danger was that one night she actually slept on the couch with him (they were clothed). She says she's pretty sure nothing happened, but she's also a fairly heavy sleeper sometimes, so that thought scares me. She's better about her safety now but I'm not sure she's fully processed that. I think the feelings I have when I think of that are dread and anxiety. Sometimes also anger.

 

4. Virginity isn't a virtue to me. Or at least, intellectually it isn't. But you're right, I'm acting as if it were. I suppose care in who one dates is a virtue to me... one I've not embodied myself, either. I don't think I'm applying any real standard here, it feels more like knee-jerk emotional reactions than anything else. Perhaps I would feel differently about losing a partner to illness. Logically I should but it's hard to say how I'd feel.

[gemccarty]

3. A few years ago she "dated" a guy who when alone with her would start to grope her even when she asked him not to. He also kept saying he didn't want a relationship. She felt uncomfortable with it but was also desperate for attention, and persisted in that "relationship" for a few months. She kept seeing him despite him ignoring her lack of consent. It never got to rape, thankfully, but her continued exposure to that man put her in danger and traumatised her, and says (or said) a lot about her past. It makes me feel worried and insecure because I wonder how much of a fight she would put up if something like that happened again. I think after the third time it happened she finally stopped seeing him alone, and tried to make sure others were around, until she finally broke things off. To me, the biggest danger was that one night she actually slept on the couch with him (they were clothed). She says she's pretty sure nothing happened, but she's also a fairly heavy sleeper sometimes, so that thought scares me. She's better about her safety now but I'm not sure she's fully processed that. I think the feelings I have when I think of that are dread and anxiety. Sometimes also anger.

 

I know this thread is somewhat old... but I have some experience with this phenomenon.

 

The point of this situation is that she was not a pure victim. She was complicit to a degree. She may have avoided responsibility in the conversation you had about this topic and, if so, that would be your cause for discontent. This avoidance may or may not have been part of other conversations as well. If things just "happen" to her, then why couldn't they just "happen" again? Are you in danger of perpetrating this kind of behavior? Yes! We all are! Regardless of how well you intellectually understand that you won't, your unconscious knows your capacity for evil.

 

If you think things can just "happen", your unconscious says "we could do this and *insert disaster scenario here*". It's not you imagining the others, it's you imagining your own capacity for evil, and your unconscious universalizing the principle of "stuff happens". I think, with the humility that I may we way off, you need to talk about this with her in a gentle and caring way. I am not blaming her or trying to put her down, just putting forth a possible scenario for what is occurring. In my experience, it is most beneficial to get to the reality of the situation and process that. If she already has, it is something else. Please let me know if this is the case.

 

I know from experience that there was great anxiety in thinking about past harms done to my wife prior to fully fleshing out the circumstances. How did she get there? What were the signs early on? How did she feel in the beginning, duration, and end? Understanding how and why these situations are completely avoidable lifted a huge weight off our chests. I realized that my capacity for evil can be respected and universalized in order to help myself and my wife avoid any kind of abuse in the future. Never again will we experience these kinds of negative interactions.

 

Note: We don't have contempt for those who have put themselves in dangerous situations unless they willingly and repetitively deny the full extent of their involvement. Too little or too much responsibility in comparison to reality will cause great discomfort for both of you. We can only connect in reality, and this might be your key to doing just that.

 

***an amateur opinion, thanks for reading

 

Edited 18 Oct 2016 - 10:15 PM, to respect community guidelines (swearing and all caps)

[Matthew Ed Moran]

 

 

3. A few years ago she "dated" a guy who when alone with her would start to grope her even when she asked him not to. He also kept saying he didn't want a relationship. She felt uncomfortable with it but was also desperate for attention, and persisted in that "relationship" for a few months. She kept seeing him despite him ignoring her lack of consent. It never got to rape, thankfully, but her continued exposure to that man put her in danger and traumatised her, and says (or said) a lot about her past. It makes me feel worried and insecure because I wonder how much of a fight she would put up if something like that happened again. I think after the third time it happened she finally stopped seeing him alone, and tried to make sure others were around, until she finally broke things off. To me, the biggest danger was that one night she actually slept on the couch with him (they were clothed). She says she's pretty sure nothing happened, but she's also a fairly heavy sleeper sometimes, so that thought scares me. She's better about her safety now but I'm not sure she's fully processed that. I think the feelings I have when I think of that are dread and anxiety. Sometimes also anger.

 

This is just my amateur opinion as well.

 

This set of events is indicative to her character. What she did was actually to enable evil.

 

If there isn't some sort of open dialogue and careful processing of this, then you will have no choice but to believe she has a capacity for cowardice that she will be prone to in the future.

 

If she was groped and then reported this to the police and never saw him again, then that would be a different story and she would be completely a victim.

 

That she continued to see someone who would grope her, and that she put herself in a position to be groped (by sleeping with him) after having full awareness of what he was capable and willing to do, in my completely amateur opinion, suggests some sort of reenacting of sexual mistreatment in her personal history. 

 

I do not think you will feel satisfied until you have a conversation with her about why this happened and how it makes you feel. I am not saying she did anything immoral of course, but I think it is completely legitimate to question her courage, so that you know she will not put herself, yourself, or your future children in a dangerous situation in the future. 

 

You can of course be compassionate, but I think what would be most satisfying for you (and her) going forward is an honest dialogue about this and some resolution involving her processing these events from every angle, I would say with a therapist even (if she hasn't already). 

 

I am not sure if this directly has to do with your anxiety, but I am going to go out on a limb and expect it does.

[Flip]

You are jealous because you are insecure.

 

When you imagine her fucking other guys in your head, you are essentially "worrying" that these past experiences will affect your current relationship. 

 

Memories and imaginings of past events are still present thought processes.

In other words, you are making believe that she's cheating on you; you feel betrayed.

Much of the negative feelings you have are tied up in this illusion.

 

 

Present thought processes creating the sense of cheating -- insightful!

If this is still a problem, I suggest that the next time you have these thoughts, to stop whatever you are doing and sit with the thoughts for a while, taste them, notice how your body feels -- any tension, etc. Then notice any reactions, mental or physical, that seem to arise in response to *the fact that the thoughts are there*. So there's the initial sensations and feelings accompanying the thoughts, and there's how you might be reacting to yourself thinking the thoughts -- any judgments, for example ("I shouldn't be having these thoughts," "I don't like having these thoughts," "There must be something wrong with me," etc). Ask yourself whether you think she'd cheat on you. If you find you don't think she would, then whenever the thoughts arise, stop again, and with genuine curiosity, sit with them, focus on your breathing, notice any reactions to the thoughts and see if they dissipate on their own, like ripples on a pond. I'm not sure this will help, but it probably wouldn't hurt! 

[meetjoeblack]

there are a lot of dudes brain washed by single mother victimhood, social conditioning, female logic, and a society that promotes men being a cuck.

 

It matters. Raising some man's baby, allocating your resources to plummeted sexual market value, and settling with a woman who in her best day never gave you the time a day. What sort of spineless man settles down with that?

 

TS, At 1 kill, you aren't doing bad. Needless to say, women lie about that shit all the time. Be warned. Didn't get off and she wont count it or some other form of female logic.

[violet]

To me, it sounds like you are a thoughtful person and that you also prefer commitment and monogamy. If you value these things then virginity is a good. It might not be essential, but it's the perfect state. I don't think it's something that has been socially programmed necessarily. I would argue that virginity is objectively better in a mate (if you value monogamy).

 

Even if she was with only one other man, that man wasn't you and it never can be. She presumably enjoyed her time with the other man. Her first sexual experiences were with someone that wasn't you and that's painful. She'll always have those memories and that tie to the other man and you can't change that.

 

I would view it as an imperfection. That said, it doesn't mean you can't be with her. It's a type of wound that might well leave a scar. But I believe that can be healed over time with effort. It might always be a small regret, but life is often imperfect. The solution in my mind would be to face the pain when it came up, express it, and move towards acceptance over time.

[_LiveFree_]

Some good posts. Now let's cut to it.

 

You don't trust her. Realize it.

[Tomas van de Wiel]

On 4 April 2017 at 3:33 AM, _LiveFree_ said:

Some good posts. Now let's cut to it.

 

You don't trust her. Realize it.

I like this directness.

I enjoyed reading this thread and it helped me with dealing with similar thoughts and feelings. Thanks guys!

[Kohlrak]

On 3/21/2017 at 4:41 PM, violet said:

To me, it sounds like you are a thoughtful person and that you also prefer commitment and monogamy. If you value these things then virginity is a good. It might not be essential, but it's the perfect state. I don't think it's something that has been socially programmed necessarily. I would argue that virginity is objectively better in a mate (if you value monogamy).

 

Even if she was with only one other man, that man wasn't you and it never can be. She presumably enjoyed her time with the other man. Her first sexual experiences were with someone that wasn't you and that's painful. She'll always have those memories and that tie to the other man and you can't change that.

 

I would view it as an imperfection. That said, it doesn't mean you can't be with her. It's a type of wound that might well leave a scar. But I believe that can be healed over time with effort. It might always be a small regret, but life is often imperfect. The solution in my mind would be to face the pain when it came up, express it, and move towards acceptance over time.

I want to take this slightly deeper: she is going to have that and many imperfections. It really just comes down to "what imperfections can i deal with?" Remember that you have your own imperfections, but also remember what you're signing up for. Me, personally, if i have a particular imperfection, i cannot expect my significant other not to have, or, at least, not have it at a lesser degree (since if they have the same imperfection to a greater degree, such as i have abandoned and action and she has not, then i am clearly better in that regard). You will have to understand that if you look at things objectively (through your own standards), you will inevitably either be better than them, or self-loathing. Now, affections for someone often cloud that, however you choose the way you are because that's what you think is the best way to be, and same with everyone else. So, if someone is better than you in your eyes, you will adopt their thinking and abandon your own (unlikely, so you'll more realistically find something you don't like in them that's not true of you, or you'll come up with an excuse to yourself why you're the exception). This doesn't mean you should throw yourself away nor does that mean that no one is good enough for you.. It means that settling down with someone is indeed inevitably settling for someone. So, what are you willing to deal with?

 

EDIT: To be fair, since you're a male buying a female, she also has divorce laws counting against her, which is where your problem is. While you admit that you're dangerous, you're afraid she's dangerous to you for the same reasons. However, she's more dangerous because of divorce laws, child support, etc. This is how women have hurt themselves with feminism.