What would you have done?

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

I work as a nanny. Sometimes, in my line of work, I encounter parents who spank their kids.

 

One of the families I work for are sort of friends of mine. We share social circles and they asked me to look after their baby because they didn't want a left wing nanny, which most are. So I've been looking after him since he was 6 months old and he is now 15 months.

 

Today, the baby's father picked him up and mentioned very matter of factly that his son earned himself a smack the other day for hitting his older sister in the face with a wooden sword. I couldn't believe what I was hearing and I didn't even know what to say. Spanking a 15 month old baby for something that he didn't even understand would hurt his sister seems extreme.

 

Because this is my job and these people are friends, I felt reluctant to just tell him off for it. As he was telling me this, it seemed like somewhere inside of him, he didn't feel good about hitting his son. The parents are both Eastern European and come from families where hitting was the norm.

 

I feel like I should have said more than I did, but I also didn't have a lot of time (always a time crunch to head off to my next family) and I know I will have other opportunities to talk to him about it in the future. That said, I feel terribly guilty for not sticking up for the baby.

[Bilderberg CEO]

Maybe you could mention that the kid is too young to even understand why he got spanked, so from the kid's perspective, the father is only teaching him that he is a mean person. You could've also asked who gave the kid the sword in the first place?  What did he expect an infant with no motor skills would do with a sword?

 

BTW, I think mixing business with friendship is a bad idea, as you're realizing.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

If I were in your situation I would feel fear rather than guilt. It's natural to have that emotion around someone so traumatized to hit an infant. Your fear might have increased the more you thought about it but weren't acting on it. Guilt does not seem appropriate because you did not do anything wrong.

 

I wouldn't discount speaking to the wife rather than the husband, and it may also be a slightly easier conversation for you. Depending on how that conversation goes, you can inform the husband of the effects of his actions and get to the bottom of what they are both doing to reproduce violence in their son.

[dsayers]

Today, the baby's father picked him up and mentioned very matter of factly that his son earned himself a smack the other day for hitting his older sister in the face with a wooden sword. I couldn't believe what I was hearing and I didn't even know what to say. Spanking a 15 month old baby for something that he didn't even understand would hurt his sister seems extreme.

 

Because this is my job and these people are friends, I felt reluctant to just tell him off for it. As he was telling me this, it seemed like somewhere inside of him, he didn't feel good about hitting his son.

First of all, thank you for your sensitivities in this matter. Bilderberg offered some great feedback and I'd like to add to it. I'm not ever sure what "this is my job and these people are my friends" means. Neither is permanent or the only ones available. Meanwhile, I think "this is me, this is my life, these are the things I'm handing over to future me" should be far more reasonable motivation than identifying temporary, voluntary, external standards. What do you think of this? In addition to that, citing that it is your job is a reason TO stand up for the child. You're paid to protect and care for the child, right? And for the record, the struggle is not lost on me. I've worked private security. When I'm at a property after hours and somebody is there, I was conflicted with not wanting to roll up on somebody who should be there as if they shouldn't, but also didn't want to demonstrate to my employers that I couldn't handle a potential trespasser either.

 

If your description of the father telling you is accurate, then it sounds like he didn't feel right for what he had done, but didn't feel it was socially unacceptable so much that saying it out loud was impolite. It sounds like he was effectively asking for permission. Which you inadvertently gave by not expressing your disgust.

 

If a child is not capable of being reasoned with, they're not going to understand the reason they were harmed. It doesn't sound like the sword strike was deliberate or understood. I think the question of why the child was armed is valid (while recognizing that ANYTHING can be used as a weapon). So by hitting the child, the father is modeling that hitting is okay, which he supposedly was trying to communicate the opposite. There's no reason why he couldn't have explained that the sword strike hurt. The child already understands what pain is no doubt and would not want to inflict that upon others for their own comfort's sake.

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

Yes, yes, mixing friendship with business is never a great idea. I knew this going into it and I was really reluctant to take the job (I didn't strictly need the extra hours, either), but they were in a bit of a tricky situation and the mother was really, really anxious about going back to work and leaving her son with someone she didn't know. Since she was only planning to work this one year and only wanted a few hours a week, I agreed. On the whole,it hasn't been a bad experience, but it does certainly introduce some complexities in terms of these kinds of conversations.

 

I actually find the father an easier person to talk to. The mother is very much of the mindset that she has all the answers when it comes to raising kids, whereas the father is more unsure and willing to listen to advice or other opinions. He's also just generally a lot more open, whereas she is very closed off. I have had a few exchanges on Facebook with the mother in regards to spanking and such- nothing heavy, just sort of probing. I think her view is that all kids need to be spanked and it's good for them and they will turn out to be brats if they are not spanked and that parents who don't spank their kids have no authority.

 

In terms of it being my job to stand up for the child, I agree, and this is part of why I feel conflicted about how I should have handled it. If get all self-righteous and burn bridges, then I no longer have any influence over his life or any opportunity to influence their parenting. If I take a softer approach and just leave the dialogue open for the future, then he may continue to be spanked over the short term, but there is a greater chance that I can sway their mindset over the long term (and they do plan to have more kids). I felt like no matter what I could have said or done, the baby would still continue to be spanked for at least some length of time. I do wish the handover hadn't been so rushed because I think if I had more time, I could have had a proper conversation with him about it. I don't get to see the father very often, though, so I don't know how long it might be before I get another chance.

[dsayers]

It seems like a contradiction to me saying that the mother is dead set in her ways, but you entertain the possibility of influencing her moving forward. Thank you for sharing more of the specifics. In retrospect, do you think knowing that the mother was determined to assault her child, that perhaps distancing yourself from them might've been a good thing? Not just because of the mixing business with pleasure, but also now getting entangled in a scenario that will only draw on you?

 

I think that I would talk to them both about what happened. Then talk about how you are aware that it is wrong and what the effects are. And how them assaulting their child basically means your job will become increasingly difficult. Not just due to your empathy for the child, but that the child will become more unstable while in your care. Then I would begin to distance myself from them. Let them know that their willingness to violate/exploit their child comes with the price of having you in their lives. It might just be what the little one needs. It might be the wake up call that they need. Or at the very least, you will simplify your own life. You have to come first. You won't be able to have the impact you want if you're just coming in afterwards to clean up their mess. The child is dependent upon them and they outnumber you. While the child will benefit from having a counter-example, I don't think you'll be able to overpower their influence. And if you should manage, they will be the ones to dump you, telling themselves that you were sabotaging their parenting.

 

If you just be your honest self with them, the worst thing that could happen is that they'll reveal themselves to be beneath you. Sad, but better knowing sooner rather than later. I wish you luck with your struggle.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

So being a liberal is really bad for parenting, but hitting children is totally OK. Got it.

 

The mother decided to go to work 6 months after having a child. Hooray for priorities!

 

I was re-reading your first post, and I think this sounds like some fresh manure if you don't mind me saying.

 

Because this is my job and these people are friends, I felt reluctant to just tell him off for it. As he was telling me this, it seemed like somewhere inside of him, he didn't feel good about hitting his son. The parents are both Eastern European and come from families where hitting was the norm.

 

 

 

You've been baby sitting for 8 months. If this is an important issue for you, why are you only finding out about it now? Why are you reluctant to speak your mind about it? 8 months is a long time to act in away to avoid something you find important with people you claim are friends. Certainly you would have made the effort to find out about this earlier if you thought it was going to lead to a positive outcome. I think your pattern of behavior deserves a bit more respect than you're currently giving it.

 

It annoys me when people have a habit of behavior that they blame themselves for (I do it too sometimes). If you have a habit of behavior, there is usually at least one good reason why. You can find out by bringing this topic up directly and seeing if you get rejected for it. The middle area of acting one way and blaming yourself for it seems to me the worst option. If you have the intention of bringing this up,, I don't see any reason for the delay. If they actually plan on re-evaluating their standards for raising their children, then it would seem that is definitely information they would want before they decide to have more kids.

 

I would be completely surprised if you brought this up and it led to a positive change given what you have shared about the mother and your self censoring for this long, but I would love to be proven wrong.