Japans problems sounds like what you get in a welfare state, but it isn't?

[Kristoffer Trolle]

From the outside Japan dosen't seem so bad. Sure, we know that the economy is fucked by keynesianism and they probably have lots of crony capitalism like in the west. But the japanese socialist hasn't created the welfare state yet (as far as I know), they haven't destroyed the family structure replacing it with single mother culture and feminism, stuff like ostracism still seems to work, the socialist hasn't started importing low iq voters yet, and crime is still as low as it gets. 

 

But when you look at the problems in Japan one would think that the country had big government and full blown socialism:

• Low birthrates


• Men and women not intrerested in each other


• High suicide rates


• This culture called hikikomori, young people withdraw from social life, stay at home all day

What I'm I missing? I'm sure the usual suspects (government and socialism) is behind this somehow? Would love to hear some explanations from people with insight on Japan.

 

And btw. visited Japan last year, absolutely loved it. Can recommend it to anybody that hasn't been there 

[thebeardslastcall]

Loved it, but saw it as deeply flawed? Perhaps they're living the contradiction you just gave. They love the social life, but fail to value the aspects that are required for the continuation of life. Like the person in the west who loves playing video games more-so than having kids and starting a family. Also they probably do have financial issues causing them to have insufficient funds for starting a family. Just because they don't have some of the "socialist" programs doesn't mean they don't still have many government mis-allocations of resources corrupting their survival abilities and life-styles. Do they not have public schools or other public services that could be causing some of their current ills?

[M.2]

I am not from Japan, but I am from Mongolia, which is closeby, and I know quite a few japanese people. They problems you list, do not stem from economics, but from culture. I am sceptical to the idea that economics shapes behavious. Rather I would think that behaviour makes everything, which of course is rooted in the mindset/culture.

 

When talking about the japanese, one should understand, that they do not think like westerners, or other asians for that matter.

- They are hardcore collectivists: and always have been. Individual freedom and rights do not REALLY matter. Much similar to chinese culture.

- Social harmony is paramount: They do not sacrifice peace lightly. Not even if gross violations of freedom are being committed. (which are being)

-  A shogun to die for: The japanese are in essence ants, they are the perfect citizenry, they love being led, their only purpose in life is to serve the Tenno. But since the Americans have in effect decapitated the Empire, much like a decapitated ant colony, the ants continue piling up recources for a while, but after a while, without leadership, they die.

- Japanese culture is very very rotten. (I don't get many friends sayin this, but hear me out): It might look perfectly sauber on the outside, but inside they are as perverted as any culture can be. Don't take my Word for it, just take a look at what they create - their movies, cartoons, music...

 

I would be glad to elaborate on that last point if anyone is interested, but I have already written too much.

Mark my words though... The Empire of the Sun will rise again!

[Nima]

A lot of issues are probably cultural, but to speak to the economic aspect: I think it's largely high taxes that are killing people's ability to save enough. Similar ailments have befallen many European countries, and the US to a degree. Taxes would have to be cut drastically in order to supply the private sector surplus needed to save up enough to feel comfortable spending/investing money again.

[Boss]

Well in the west, Christians tend to have more children than atheist. Now obviously Japan is different but they seem to have an interesting atheist population, to quote the Washingtonpost "Japan, where 31 percent call themselves atheist, is a little more complicated. While superficial religious observation is common – many weddings take place in churches – formal religious practice has never really recovered from the imperial era that culminated with World War Two."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/23/a-surprising-map-of-where-the-worlds-atheists-live/

Now I wished the Wasingtonpost let us know how "many weddings take place in churches"  but all I could find was this year 2000 survey which asked mostly females "according to which tradition did you or do you want to celebrate your wedding?" and 45.5% voted Christian
http://www.japan-guide.com/topic/0002.html

Now I know Japan is mostly Buddhism and Shinto, so im curious if the Buddist and Shinto have more children than the atheist. 

I dont want to draw any of my own conclusion, just throwing these thoughts out there.

[Anuojat]

What kind of parenting and childhood do these people have?

 

Are they treated with respect and given induvidual autonomy? AS far as i understand japanese boys and girls are GRILLED to perform better and pressure almost like no other culture (barrding chinese government "olympians") from very young age. Lots of expectation and self esteem is often completely ignored or violated or worse: Made into a person MUST undersuch demands.

 

AKA, "To perferm better you MUST have strong self esteem oh btw your identity and value as human being is compeltely tied to success we determine" to an 6-8 year old japanese boy entering or alreadey in school.

[Mister Mister]

  Yes I think the cultural element is more behind the suicides, and is related to the lack of interest between men and women.  High suicide is correlated with high IQ, and is also a function of social alienation.  When you see how East Asians treat their children this makes sense.  They aren't excessively violent or harsh, compared to most cultures, but put an enormous pressure to conform, and children learn that their value as people depends on how they serve the collective: there is a wave of suicides as a result of failing college entrance exams.  As far as the Sexodus, I think women want to have more independence, but also men want to have more dignity.  In Japanese marriages, the men work 50-60 hours a week, and the women keep all the money and keep the men on an allowance.  The men hardly see their children, and I don't imagine their sex life is great as prostitution is quite common, or even just paying pretty women to sit next to them and pour drinks and listen to their problems.

 

  As far as economics, the Japanese central bank has been suppressing interest rates, and Japan has the highest Debt to GDP % in the world.  This is the result of Statism in a very high IQ society: not a lot of war or outright corruption, but the peoples' productivity is slowly sapped until the entire culture just decides to die.  It's in many ways a beautiful culture and sad that it is going this way.

[M.2]

  Yes I think the cultural element is more behind the suicides, and is related to the lack of interest between men and women.  High suicide is correlated with high IQ, and is also a function of social alienation.  When you see how East Asians treat their children this makes sense.  They aren't excessively violent or harsh, compared to most cultures, but put an enormous pressure to conform, and children learn that their value as people depends on how they serve the collective: there is a wave of suicides as a result of failing college entrance exams.  As far as the Sexodus, I think women want to have more independence, but also men want to have more dignity.  In Japanese marriages, the men work 50-60 hours a week, and the women keep all the money and keep the men on an allowance.  The men hardly see their children, and I don't imagine their sex life is great as prostitution is quite common, or even just paying pretty women to sit next to them and pour drinks and listen to their problems.

 

  As far as economics, the Japanese central bank has been suppressing interest rates, and Japan has the highest Debt to GDP % in the world.  This is the result of Statism in a very high IQ society: not a lot of war or outright corruption, but the peoples' productivity is slowly sapped until the entire culture just decides to die.  It's in many ways a beautiful culture and sad that it is going this way.

I find myself agreeing with most of your points. Just a few questions for clarification...

- Could you post the sources for the correlation between IQ and suicide rates?

- Also, could you say why you think east-asians aren't excessively harsh? My personal experience differs.

- Lastly, I am still not convinced by Stefan's obsession with IQ. I grant, there is some correlation with economics and all that... but does it really matter?

[Kristoffer Trolle]

thebeardslastcall: What I liked about Japan was this feeling of a high trust, low crime sociality, people was REALLY friendly, men was very beta-male-ish (focusing on beta stuff like taking care of your family) and girls just seemed nice (yes I know, crazy right?!?). Reminded me of the old european values before the welfare state.

 

Mishi2 and Anuojat: The japanese culture that you blame has created this rich, highly intelligent, highly productive, large population etc. sociality. So why has it suddenly changed? Might be true though that the high suicide rate is related to the high presure from family to do well, I guess japan have always had a thing with suicide, kamikaze and seppuku 

 

Nima: like I said, I know the japanese economy is in deep shit, their business cycle is a few years ahead of the west. But still, their government wasting a lof of money on a crony banking system and crony companies dosen't explain these issues. Looking up the taxes in japan they actually seem pretty low and the feeling I got from visiting was that it seemed like a very free market.

 

Boss: Probably some truth to that, atheists don't have many kids.

 

Mishi2: Stef has mentioned in his videos some pretty hard argumets for why IQ does matters, try to search for it.

 

And thanks for the anwsers but I still don't think it explains it all, especially why do japanese guys and girls not create families, what has changed? 

[DaVinci]

I think in terms of Japanese "Neet" culture it's not dissimilar from what is happening in the west. People want their lives to be more than just "go to work cause that's what your parents did". I'd rather sit at home and play video games than go to a job and I'm not Japanese. I think it is being fueled by a push back against blind authority more so than it is that they don't want to work hard. 

[Absit]

I would be glad to elaborate on that last point if anyone is interested, but I have already written too much.

Mark my words though... The Empire of the Sun will rise again!

I'm interested, please go on.