JesseSchroeder Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 What does it mean to be truly honesty in our communications? Can we change or filter our words to mean the same things and still get our point across? When communicating, how much do you need to take the other person's perspective into account? Are they ready to hear what you have to say and if they are not, then what? These are all questions that my councilor left me with. I would appreciate the community's help on this matter. Thank you.
dsayers Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 1) Honesty is a continuum. In the most rewarding conversations I've had, honesty meant being forthcoming with your feeling in the moment. Not editing yourself out of fear of how you would be received. 2) Not sure what you're asking. 3) Not sure what you're asking. It would depend on the subject matter. I'm inclined to lean to yes though because in order for communication to be effective, there needs to be some common ground. Things how to establish what is true, how to negotiate conflict, etc. 4) Not sure what you're asking. If they're ready to hear what you have to say is going to change based on who you're talking to and what about. If they're not ready to hear what you have to say, then it wouldn't make much sense to communicate with them anyways. Not sure who your councilor is or why these things are being discussed. Perhaps this in fact partially answers one of your questions since no frame of reference was provided.
ValueOfBrevity Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 As we live our lives, we develop individual perspectives about reality. When we talk to other people, we compare our version to theirs.If we are honest with ourselves, we listen to others and respect our own ignorance.
JesseSchroeder Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 Thank you for your help. To your points dsayers: 1) I agree. 2) This has to deal with one. Can we change how we say things and still call it honest? I don't think we can. I am being asked to do this in communication with my wife by our councilor. I am using "I staments" and trying to use feelings words. 3) This directly relates to 2.It has been suggested to me that if I change my methods of communicating it may be more effective when trying to negotiate. I understand that there needs to be goals in mind and not ultimatums. 4) Personally, this relates to my wife. If someone you care about isn't ready, when do you stop trying? I am re-reading RTR and trying to collect anymore info I can on this topic. It's Very strenuous on my relationship after I started diving deeper into self knowledge and took the red pill. Thanks again for the help.
JesseSchroeder Posted October 28, 2016 Author Posted October 28, 2016 Thank you both for your reply. Value of Brevity, I agree. Dsayers: 1) I agree. 2) I've been asked by my counselor if there is a different way I can make statements or ask questions. This stems from my wife being triggered with me communicating honestly. Over the past year I have been listening to Stef and I am currently rereading RTR. In the past I had a terrible habit of appeasing and going along to try to stabilize the relationship. 3) I'm trying to figure out the most effective way to communicate when you are trying to be empathetic but you are not sympathetic to their communication. This stems from a fundamental disagreement of an issue with my wife. 4) When I try to have a dicussion with my wife about this fundamental disagreement, she goes straight to "I'm right, your wrong" and will not discuss goals or the emotions behind this issue, besides being hurt by the fact that I disagree and do not sympathize with her position. Thank you for your help. I appreciate your feedback.
JesseSchroeder Posted October 28, 2016 Author Posted October 28, 2016 Perhaps this is an example of what I'm talking about. Two different replys but both having approximately the same message and both being honest when I sent them.
dsayers Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 You are welcome. I'm glad you are getting value from it 4) When I try to have a dicussion with my wife about this fundamental disagreement, she goes straight to "I'm right, your wrong" and will not discuss goals or the emotions behind this issue, besides being hurt by the fact that I disagree and do not sympathize with her position. Have you watched the Bomb in the Brain series? You can't influence people until you understand WHY they believe what they believe. I can only guess what "fundamental disagreement" is, but chances are, to change her position would mean to accept that everybody she ever trusted lied to her. That is a scary proposition for anybody; To suddenly wake up and find yourself in what is effectively a new world. I cannot even imagine forming a connection who thinks "I'm right, you're wrong, we can't talk about this," let alone growing such a deep connection as to want to marry the person. How did you come to be attracted and marry somebody you cannot have a conversation with? Were there any signs such a disconnect could occur?
JesseSchroeder Posted October 28, 2016 Author Posted October 28, 2016 I was young and dick napped myself. We have been together nearly 13 years and there are children involved. Also, I was quite liberal then and chose to believe I could mold myself into what she desired. My foolish mistakes and desires to please are a hard wake up call for both of us and apologies don't fix our predicament. At first my world was shattered by my own family and then I found I was attacked for my honesty from everyone besides my children. Going through the process of self knowledge and acknowledging my own self worth has been a hard and painful process over the past five years. Now I am trying to be straight forward, without fogging and projecting. I find I am getting push back ever more frequently from the people in my life. All I can say is that finding FDR and a community of this caliber is very helpful and is an excellent resource on top of my own efforts. Once again, thank you and I will watch the series you suggested.
David Ottinger Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 (1) What does it mean to be truly honesty in our communications? (2) Can we change or filter our words to mean the same things and still get our point across? (3) When communicating, how much do you need to take the other person's perspective into account? (4) Are they ready to hear what you have to say and if they are not, then what? These are all questions that my councilor left me with. I would appreciate the community's help on this matter. Thank you. (1) One can only love to the degree one loves the self. Love responds to integrity, and integrity is made up of a commitment to truth (or honesty). So, to be truly honest is to be truly accepting of the self. "I am all that I need for there to be love." And to share this openly with others is honesty. (2) Articulation is an art form in and of itself. There are like 600,000 words and most people only know 60k, if even that. So, yes, there are many ways to invoke a concept or emphasis a feeling. (3) Equal consideration is always necessary for there to be a voluntary exchange whether it's merely ideas or actual goods/services. (4) Figure out what is the nature of the resistance. The metaphoric wall is either (a) altruistic, i.e. an attempt to protect you or someone from yourself, or (b) self-serving, i.e. the individual is protecting oneself from some perceived pain.
JesseSchroeder Posted October 28, 2016 Author Posted October 28, 2016 Thank you, David. 4) made sense in a way that I have not thought of before. 3) I understand and I am working on trying to move past a "this or that" attitude and move towards a goals methodology.
dsayers Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 Going through the process of self knowledge and acknowledging my own self worth has been a hard and painful process over the past five years. Now I am trying to be straight forward, without fogging and projecting. I find I am getting push back ever more frequently from the people in my life. My brother! My heart goes out to you. It's hard enough for those of us who have to wake up and find the world we knew to not be the real world. I can imagine how much more seemingly insurmountable it must be when you are hitched and there are children involved. Kudos to you for having the courage to face this. Your life WILL get richer. I'm curious as to how old your children are. How were they raised by the two of you? Have you been having conversations with them regarding the self-knowledge you've gained and how it might alter the face of your prior parenting? You are not alone. I hope you will reach out to me, perhaps on facebook. 2
Maciej Bembnista Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 I was young and dick napped myself. We have been together nearly 13 years and there are children involved. Also, I was quite liberal then and chose to believe I could mold myself into what she desired. Kudos!, brother! 1
D-Light Posted November 1, 2016 Posted November 1, 2016 Q - What does it mean to be truly honesty in our communications? A - To not lie or misrepresent what is true. Q - Can we change or filter our words to mean the same things and still get our point across? A - Yes, of course. And as long as the changes or filtering does not misrepresent what is true, it is still truly honest. Q - When communicating, how much do you need to take the other person's perspective into account? A - That depends whether you intend the communication to be effective and bi-directional, or ineffective or uni-directional. Taking the audience's perspective into account will usually make the communication far more effective, even if the communication is uni-directional. Q - Are they ready to hear what you have to say and if they are not, then what? A - Allow them to get prepared. Tell them, for example, that you have something you need to talk to them about that you feel is very important to you. Tell them that you believe it will be very important to them as well. Tell them that you believe it may be information that they may find it difficult to hear or accept. Tell them that you understand how difficult it can be because you've been wrestling with it yourself. Presumably, your wish is to not only better your own life, but theirs as well, so let them know your intentions and why. Give them time to prepare themselves to hear whatever it is you need to tell them. Set a time and place. Make it as comfortable for yourself and them as possible (all of this of course presumes that you actually have any love, respect, or concern for them).
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