Ninja Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Scenario: Boy meets girl They date briefly and then don't speak for a year They reconnect and date for 6 weeks. They break up and boy says increasingly threatening and disrespectful things to girl for 2 weeks until girl threatens to contact boys family and police. Girl 'blocks' boy Boy shows up 3 months later wanting to date again Girl declines and says that she is willing to be friends Boy is visably frusterated with girl but requests girl message him sometime Girl says she will do so in the distant future. Boy gives girl tight hug that doesn't end until she pulls back Boy leaves at 5pm Boy returns at 10pm and walks into girls house It happens that girl was walking toward door and boy is stunned when he opens door Boy steps back and girl slams/locks door Boy refuses to leave and demands girl comes outside Girl requests that he leave but does not call police as suggested by friend Boy stays outside girls house for 3 hours Boy returns two days later at 8am Knocks on door Girl asks who is at the door Boy gives fake name Girl recognizes boys voice and calls police Police tell boy to leave girl alone and not to return to her property Boy returns the next morning knocking on door demanding girl come outside Girl calls police and police have boy agree to a restriction of contact order requiring boy not to attempt to contact girl directly or indirectly One week later boy contacts girls friend requesting girl to contact him Friend reports boy to girl Girl reports boy to police Police decide to charge boy with harassment 5 months go by Girl receives email from defence lawyer and calls 3 times over the course of a week with one response at the end of the week in the form of a voicemail informing girl that lawyer is going on holiday 2 weeks later police officer knocks on girls door at 8am unannounced and tells girl that if she doesn't get in touch with lawyer the case will be dropped Girl leaves additional voicemail for lawyer informing lawyer of police officers warning Girl is contacted by lawyer a week later who claims that police have not given her the entire case file as justification for not having any idea about the timeline of events and evidence of harassment Lawyer asks girl if girls actions leading up to breakup justified boys harassment and refusal of girls request to not be contacted by boy Girl is shocked and appalled that lawyer would ask this question when girl requested boy leave her alone on numerous occasions and his disregard for girls freedom is the reason for concern Not to mention the harassment started months after the relationship ended Girl feels that lawyer does not understand why she feels vulnerable about having to confront boy directly if the justice system fails to protect her right to her property and self One week passes Boy is meant to go to court in 2 weeks Boy adds girl on Instagram Girl takes screen shot of notification Reports incident (though inclined out of initiative to protect her freedom she was also instructed by police to report any attempted contact) Girl has to wait 5 hours for police to come to her home to update file Considering that the boy is going to court and has been told multiple times by girl and others that he does not have the right to demand contact with her, his persistence indicates that the justice system is not solving the issue of the girl being harassed and having her freedom limited by living in varying degrees of fear What should the girl do?
dayna j. Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Ideally, girl would have some men around her which are capable of delivering physical consequences to boy for his threats and harassment. 2
dsayers Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 I wonder why the gender specificity? In a world where the State is ready to grind up men at the behest of accusatory women, I think that if you were so inclined to be gender specific, wouldn't the more accurate version be of greater use? I'd be more curious as to what people think a man should do when women can just snap their finger, bury the guy under legal entanglements, and walk away consequence free? I think the scenario you paint is largely a story from the past. One that mostly doesn't play out in the present because of the scenario I've painted.
Kikker Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Girl receives email from defence lawyer and calls 3 times over the course of a week with one response at the end of the week in the form of a voicemail informing girl that lawyer is going on holiday 2 weeks later police officer knocks on girls door at 8am unannounced and tells girl that if she doesn't get in touch with lawyer the case will be dropped Girl leaves additional voicemail for lawyer informing lawyer of police officers warning Girl is contacted by lawyer a week later who claims that police have not given her the entire case file as justification for not having any idea about the timeline of events and evidence of harassment Lawyer asks girl if girls actions leading up to breakup justified boys harassment and refusal of girls request to not be contacted by boy Girl is shocked and appalled that lawyer would ask this question when girl requested boy leave her alone on numerous occasions and his disregard for girls freedom is the reason for concern Not to mention the harassment started months after the relationship ended Girl feels that lawyer does not understand why she feels vulnerable about having to confront boy directly if the justice system fails to protect her right to her property and self I don't understand, the police did show up when the girl called right? He did get arrested right? Why did "the girl" blame the state for not helping her when they show up and protect your property when you call them and arrest the person doing it? And why does the girl feel shocked when asked basic questions about the events by her lawyer? Is he supposed to believe that a boy is harassing a girl just because? It has always two sides, the boy has certain characteristics and the girl has done things which play into those characteristics. If one of those characteristics is "tries to kill when looked at funny" and the girl looked at him funny it should be obvious to anyone that the boy is in the wrong there. One week passes Boy is meant to go to court in 2 weeks Boy adds girl on Instagram Girl takes screen shot of notification Reports incident (though inclined out of initiative to protect her freedom she was also instructed by police to report any attempted contact) Girl has to wait 5 hours for police to come to her home to update file Considering that the boy is going to court and has been told multiple times by girl and others that he does not have the right to demand contact with her, his persistence indicates that the justice system is not solving the issue of the girl being harassed and having her freedom limited by living in varying degrees of fear What should the girl do? Get some self-defense lessons, until the girl feel comfortable defending against him. Maybe get a weapon or get help from friends/family. I mean the girl is afraid of him getting violent right? Did he hurt the girl? She could report that.
David Ottinger Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 The due process of law is being fulfilled, although she is still at risk. In order to alleviate this risk, I think she should consider private security measures, and then file a civil suit against the boy for those expenses. 1
thecurrentyear Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 She needs to read a book called The Gift of Fear and learn to be more assertive about following her gut instincts and reacting to "real fear." She did a lot of things wrong in the lead-up to this. She should get a gun and stop messing around, playing the victim.
Ninja Posted November 9, 2016 Author Posted November 9, 2016 Thanks for the advice. I'll need to take some time to review the information that everyone has contributed. Dsayers, The gender specification is entirely related to this scenario being based on a real event and is not intended to imply that women are never the perpetrators of harassment.
D-Light Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 She needs to read a book called The Gift of Fear and learn to be more assertive about following her gut instincts and reacting to "real fear." She did a lot of things wrong in the lead-up to this. She should get a gun and stop messing around, playing the victim. Scenario: Boy meets girl They date briefly and then don't speak for a year They reconnect and date for 6 weeks. They break up and boy says increasingly threatening and disrespectful things to girl for 2 weeks until girl threatens to contact boys family and police. Girl 'blocks' boy This is where it SHOULD have ended. When someone escalates in disrespect and threats, they have voided all opportunities to be in your life in any way. There may be forgiveness for such offenses, but never again should there be trust, which is a necessary requirement for all relationships. Boy shows up 3 months later wanting to date again Girl declines and says that she is willing to be friends A boy who likes a girl can never "just be friends". A boy who is obsessed to the point of being disrespectful, threatening, and otherwise harassing a girl is a danger to her safety, well-being, and quite possibly even her life. A person should never agree to be friends with someone who has disrespected them without the most sincere apology and a change in behavior. A person should never ever agree to be friends with someone who threatens their well-being or life. Boy is visibly frustrated with girl but requests girl message him sometime Girl says she will do so in the distant future. NO, never. To even suggest this is to create a false hope in the mind of a very dangerous individual. YOU MUST NEVER, not even in the distant future, message such a person in the future. Boy gives girl tight hug that doesn't end until she pulls back Boy leaves at 5pm Boy returns at 10pm and walks into girls house It happens that girl was walking toward door and boy is stunned when he opens door Boy steps back and girl slams/locks door Boy refuses to leave and demands girl comes outside Girl requests that he leave but does not call police as suggested by friend Again, if your friend is suggesting you call the police, call the police, or at least call someone to forcibly eject/remove him from the premises. He must know in no uncertain or vague terms that his presence is irrevocably unwanted/forbidden. This kind of person is dangerous. Boy stays outside girls house for 3 hours Boy returns two days later at 8am Knocks on door Girl asks who is at the door Boy gives fake name Girl recognizes boys voice and calls police Finally. Police tell boy to leave girl alone and not to return to her property Boy returns the next morning knocking on door demanding girl come outside Girl calls police and police have boy agree to a restriction of contact order requiring boy not to attempt to contact girl directly or indirectly One week later boy contacts girls friend requesting girl to contact him Friend reports boy to girl Girl reports boy to police Police decide to charge boy with harassment 5 months go by Girl receives email from defence lawyer and calls 3 times over the course of a week with one response at the end of the week in the form of a voicemail informing girl that lawyer is going on holiday 2 weeks later police officer knocks on girls door at 8am unannounced and tells girl that if she doesn't get in touch with lawyer the case will be dropped Girl leaves additional voicemail for lawyer informing lawyer of police officers warning Girl is contacted by lawyer a week later who claims that police have not given her the entire case file as justification for not having any idea about the timeline of events and evidence of harassment Lawyer asks girl if girls actions leading up to breakup justified boys harassment and refusal of girls request to not be contacted by boy This is where you ought to have demanded a new/different lawyer (unless you misrepresented the question of the lawyer). Any lawyer (male or female) who even ASKS whether the actions of one party justify HARASSMENT on the part of another cannot be trusted to understand the situation or fight for their client. If on the other hand, the question was whether indeed the behavior could justly be termed harassment is a valid question (it is a valid defense on the part of the accused) that must be asked. The Lawyer should explain this to their client so they understand the nature of the case before them and what they're up against. Sometimes, some people overreact and call behavior harassment that can be viewed as a reasonable misunderstanding. That does not appear to be the case here, but the fact that you allowed the possibility of friendship after the initial disrespectful behavior and threats will likely be used against you. NEVER make that mistake again. Girl is shocked and appalled that lawyer would ask this question when girl requested boy leave her alone on numerous occasions and his disregard for girls freedom is the reason for concern Not to mention the harassment started months after the relationship ended Girl feels that lawyer does not understand why she feels vulnerable about having to confront boy directly if the justice system fails to protect her right to her property and self One week passes Boy is meant to go to court in 2 weeks Boy adds girl on Instagram Girl takes screen shot of notification Reports incident (though inclined out of initiative to protect her freedom she was also instructed by police to report any attempted contact) Girl has to wait 5 hours for police to come to her home to update file Considering that the boy is going to court and has been told multiple times by girl and others that he does not have the right to demand contact with her, his persistence indicates that the justice system is not solving the issue of the girl being harassed and having her freedom limited by living in varying degrees of fear What should the girl do? Continue the course. Make certain to show up to court. Make certain your attorney presents a proper case against the accused. Make certain the judge makes it clear that the boy is to have absolutely no contact, directly or indirectly, positively or negatively with you in the future. Make certain that he is given to believe that you WILL protect yourself and others WILL protect you to his detriment if he even ever so much as crosses paths with you. It's time for him to become a ghost and for you to learn to defend yourself from potential predators such as this male. 1
Frosty Posted November 14, 2016 Posted November 14, 2016 Go to the police, they have a process for escalating punishment for harassment, if you have reasonable grounds for a restraining order then any such further action is punished severely because the person harassing is given a warning to stop and boundaries they should not exceed, which seems reasonable to me. However my gut tells me we don't have the entire story here, that someone that persistent is likely either doing it for some reason which we don't see here, maybe the girl is pregnant with his kid, or she owes him money, or whatever it is. Or that the guy in question has some kind of mental imbalance that doesn't allow him to deal with loss/breakup. It's rare that people are just crazy and risk harassing other people for literally no reason at all, which is kind of the premise we're implicitly being asked to accept in this scenario. Given the police response that there was circumstances leading to the breakup that matter, we'd need to understand what those circumstances were, and ideally from a 3rd party impartial person who could tell us without bias. It's super easy when you hear only one side of a story to assume who the bad guy is here. You see this kind of hilarious 180 degree flips in understanding from things like reddit posts on relationships where a woman comes in and tells this torturous story of woe and the guy finds it and posts his side of the story and suddenly we learn actually he's been extremely reasonable and she's been manipulative to both him and the readers. 1
Ninja Posted November 24, 2016 Author Posted November 24, 2016 Hi community, still needing a bit of time here. I really appreciate the advice, it is helping me understand the situation. I just need to say to Frosty, just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I'm being manipulative. I've told the story as accurately and objectively as possible. I have no value in wasting time trying to get sympathy from people, especially at the expense of another persons reputation. As an individual I have other more interesting things to occupy myself with. For the sake of discussion let's assume the account to be accurate
Ninja Posted November 24, 2016 Author Posted November 24, 2016 I don't understand, the police did show up when the girl called right? He did get arrested right? Why did "the girl" blame the state for not helping her when they show up and protect your property when you call them and arrest the person doing it? And why does the girl feel shocked when asked basic questions about the events by her lawyer? Is he supposed to believe that a boy is harassing a girl just because? It has always two sides, the boy has certain characteristics and the girl has done things which play into those characteristics. If one of those characteristics is "tries to kill when looked at funny" and the girl looked at him funny it should be obvious to anyone that the boy is in the wrong there. Get some self-defense lessons, until the girl feel comfortable defending against him. Maybe get a weapon or get help from friends/family. I mean the girl is afraid of him getting violent right? Did he hurt the girl? She could report that. The shock had to do with the fact that there was ample clear evidence showing harassment from the boy. The lawyer hadn't bothered to review the case file in its entirety and just looked at the first few text messages. The issue with the police had to do with the fact that the girl was being held accountable for something that was the lawyers responsibility- to inform the girl about the case. The police officer told her that if she didn't get in touch with the lawyer the case would be dropped but the lawyer did not answer/respond to attempts until after girl called police to complain about the unfair conditions. If the girl didn't call to complain and the lawyer didn't get in touch with her then it would be unfair that the girl should be blamed for the case being dropped because she wasn't able to reach the lawyer. The issue with the case being dropped has to do with the perpetrator of the harassment experiencing the fact that harassment is considered unacceptable in our society
Iron Horse Posted November 25, 2016 Posted November 25, 2016 Ideally, girl would have some men around her which are capable of delivering physical consequences to boy for his threats and harassment. This, and instruct the girl in the correct and safe use of self defense with firearms and a mental attitude that can place her needs and survival over that of an attacker. 2
JoeH Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Unless girl wants to take viable steps for maintaining her own self-defense, then girl will be at the mercy of the government law-enforcement system. I suggest that girl keeps badgering the law. There's an adage that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". So be a squeaky wheel... or take unorthodox steps toward her own defense.
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