Best reaction Video to Trump winning. Must watch

[yagami]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE5L_kFlt3k

[Absit]

There's something extra funny with black people laughing

[dsayers]

"I succeeded in using the apparatus of the State to force a ruler onto you before you could inflict your ruler onto me." Not boast-worthy or something to be proud of. How bankrupt does any person have to be to have so much emotional investment in who will rule them in a society where the ruler has little direct influence over people's daily lives.

[Donnadogsoth]

"I succeeded in using the apparatus of the State to force a ruler onto you before you could inflict your ruler onto me." Not boast-worthy or something to be proud of. How bankrupt does any person have to be to have so much emotional investment in who will rule them in a society where the ruler has little direct influence over people's daily lives.

 

Yes, self-defense, knowing that any attempt at this juncture to jump from zero to absolute freedom will be met by an impregnable wall.  Almost as if the State is the destiny of the Nation.  Anyone who wants to increase human freedom would be well to understand that without order there is no freedom.  In other words,

 

"When freedom destroys order, the yearning for order will destroy freedom."

--Eric Hoffer

[dsayers]

 

Yes, self-defense, knowing that any attempt at this juncture to jump from zero to absolute freedom will be met by an impregnable wall.

The only impregnable wall I see is closed minds who say things like this. I'm free and the only impregnable walls I run into are the people who refuse to be free even when they all the components right in front of them as well as numerous models.

 

Anyone who wants to increase human freedom would be well to understand that without order there is no freedom.

Define order. I think you're poisoning the well here, but want to double check before proceeding. A lot of people get this one confused in the context of the State. Here's an illustration of what I mean:

[DaVinci]

I'm not sure what order and chaos mean anymore. Order as in order at McDonalds? Chaos as in the Joker is an agent of chaos?

 

I would say in terms of society the problem isn't order vs chaos as much as it is simplicity vs complication. Now maybe I'm describing the same thing two different ways, but it makes more sense to me the second way.

 

I think humans crave structure. Caves. Buildings. Right angles. We apply this to society as well with rules, but those rules can be simple or complex. Even the whole idea of property rights and that it is immoral to impede on someone's property against their consent could be taking place in a scenario where someone is surrounded on all sides by the private property of someone else who refuses to let you pass through. That sounds like a complex situation to deal with when it comes to the rules, unless of course you simplify it down to that the guy impeeding movement across his land is an asshole.

 

I think over complication of the rules takes the cave from a structure with an exit and blocks that entrance turning it into a tomb. 

[Donnadogsoth]

The only impregnable wall I see is closed minds who say things like this. I'm free and the only impregnable walls I run into are the people who refuse to be free even when they all the components right in front of them as well as numerous models.

 

Define order. I think you're poisoning the well here, but want to double check before proceeding. A lot of people get this one confused in the context of the State. Here's an illustration of what I mean:

 

“Order to the spider is chaos to the fly”

 

Whose order? Let's consider Natural Law as order. Natural Law is seen in two realms, the celestial and the mortal. Celestially, Kepler showed us that the spheres are harmonically organised, such that the differing planetary orbits are necessary orbits, that planets could not have “randomly” taken up orbits between them, as between Venus and Terra, for example. Kepler successfully predicted the existence of an “exploded planet” between Mars and Jupiter, a realm of discord we now know as the Asteroid Belt. The harmony of the Solar system is the harmony of Natural Law unfolding without interference.

 

The mortal realm has Natural Law as its guide, but such law is violable, albeit with consequences. Natural Law here is in the form of IF/THEN. The “should” or “ought” of this situation applies when we consider what the nature of Man is, what his highest pleasures are, and how to go about obtaining those pleasures. So, a man “should” seek after his highest pleasure, his highest happiness, if you will, every bit as a living body “should” (if it had a will) seek to attain maximum health. Men should eradicate evils every bit as a living body should eradicate cancers.

 

The order of the Nation-State is to create “a more perfect union” in the defense of the “general welfare” for the sake of the “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” of its citizens. It goes beyond this into the Concordianta Catholica of Leo XI, that all Nation-States should work together to achieve maximum prosperity and happiness for each other, which is derived from the Treaty of Westphalia ending the Thirty Years War of 1618-48 what states that Countries should work to the “advantage of the other,” which of course is a Christian conception going back to Christ teaching that one must love one's neighbour as oneself, and forgive if one is to be forgiven. Thus in the highest statecraft grounded in the highest religion we have the foundations for a world order based on love, liberty, and order.

 

The specific order does not come from laws or authority, but from principle and progress. What does Man need to progress? Truthful principle, derived from Science (physical) and Art (moral), and the goal of life is not to merely accumulate material goods or live a long life, but to contribute to Humanity as a whole, in an immortal way. “Freedom” is not an end in of itself, any more than “wisdom” is or “reason” is. Freedom, wisdom, and reason are tools, just as are pieces of Classical Art, or Scientific discoveries. They are treasures to be gathered, counted, and spent on achieving the highest Order, the immortality of Mankind, its happiness and survival.

 

If you would have freedom, you must realise that freedom is not random or disorderly or liberated from all constraints. Pure freedom is death. Cancer is pure freedom in the cells of the body—there are many ways to be sick but only one way to be healthy. That way must conform to Natural Law or else history will crush it out of existence and replace it with something even worse than what was initially galling you.

[dsayers]

Natural Law is seen in two realms, the celestial and the mortal.

I stopped reading here. You're trying to sneak in the claim that "Natural Law" (an unnecessary obfuscation in and of itself) is seen in supernatural and... This is a self-detonating claim.

 

@DaVinci: I don't know if what you're doing is describing the same thing in a different way, but I do think that simple vs complex (Occam's Razor) is a useful guide for categorizing the essence of order vs chaos. Does that make sense?

 

Referring to the picture, the example of chaos looks VERY orderly. But look at the amount of labor invested to achieve it. It's not simple by any means. Sure, the tree put a lot of effort into producing the order, but that was natural.

 

I once argued that our interdependence is proof of peace as the default. Perhaps a way of explaining the phenomenon referred to as spontaneous order. Which the State actively invests in disrupting for the sake of control. Like the picture, it is the illusion of order while being the opposite of order. Which refutes Donna's implication that we need a State in order to achieve freedom.

[Donnadogsoth]

I stopped reading here. You're trying to sneak in the claim that "Natural Law" (an unnecessary obfuscation in and of itself) is seen in supernatural and... This is a self-detonating claim.

 

Actually I was referring to the Solar system.