SoCaliGirl Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Trump stated that Snowden should be executed... That tells me all I need to know about Trump. Your thoughts? 2 2
dayna j. Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 I can only hope that he has updated his views in light of Wikileaks, and the effect it has had on informing the general public of corruption within the government.
Tyler H Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Regardless of whether or not a Trump presidency was necessary for freedom of speech to be maintained, the Trump heroism has run rampant. I find it important to point out (sadly) that government and politicians are still evil. If you are the head of an evil institution then you are evil. He should not be celebrated and glorified in a community that recognizes the initiation of force as the foundation of immorality. Those are my thoughts. 1 2
Donnadogsoth Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Regardless of whether or not a Trump presidency was necessary for freedom of speech to be maintained, the Trump heroism has run rampant. I find it important to point out (sadly) that government and politicians are still evil. If you are the head of an evil institution then you are evil. He should not be celebrated and glorified in a community that recognizes the initiation of force as the foundation of immorality. Those are my thoughts. Imagine you're in a Navy which has a culture of abuse extending all the way to the highest levels. You are promoted to Captain of your own vessel. Should you resign or should you do everything in your power to make your particular ship the best, most philosophically kind and rational in the Navy? You know that every other potential Captain is brutal at best, wicked at worst. Shouldn't you stay at your post and try to help the hapless sailors who are under your command? Trump stated that Snowden should be executed... That tells me all I need to know about Trump. Your thoughts? Did Snowden help make America great? Trump is flexible. He might come around to the understanding that WikiLeaks, and Snowden, helped him win.
Wuzzums Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 So on one hand you have this guy that leaked classified information putting the lives of hundreds of millions of americans at risk. And on the other hand you have this other guy who makes anonymous donations to a ton of charities and sponsors the helpless. If I had to shoot one of them I know whom to pick. Not saying anyone should die, just saying a tweet does not negate decades of philanthropy.
dsayers Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 That tells me all I need to know about Trump. Really? The fact that he wanted to rule over 300 million people wasn't sufficient? Not saying anyone should die, just saying a tweet does not negate decades of philanthropy. That's true. A person can be both a tyrant and formerly a philanthropist. But to turn your standard on its head, "decades of philanthropy" does not negate a willingness to rule over 300 million people. 1 3
Tyler H Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 So on one hand you have this guy that leaked classified information putting the lives of hundreds of millions of americans at risk. Shouldn't you be linking that to a Fox News article? Even if their lives were at risk it is the government that created the situation to begin with. The false concept that there can be a concentration of power and it will not be used for evil is what put people in danger. Snowden is a lightweight compared to politicians, a category in which you may now place your fearless leader. 1 1
sweathog1 Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 To me, the man took an oath, was a very difficult decision to do. no lack of courage for sure. I beat myself up 15 times but I must say, I would not do it. These red and green markers on posts what is up/down special with that? This old fart will engage a bit of altzheimers or not ? I'll pay a few bucks if I have too. You guys are all nuts.
Wuzzums Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Really? The fact that he wanted to rule over 300 million people wasn't sufficient? That's true. A person can be both a tyrant and formerly a philanthropist. But to turn your standard on its head, "decades of philanthropy" does not negate a willingness to rule over 300 million people. POISONING THE WELL !! It's not "former". It's "current". fearless leader. Uhm, we like refer to him as "God Emperor". Get your facts straight. But all of that aside. What have you 2 ever done to better the lives of others?
dsayers Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 What have you 2 ever done to better the lives of others? Deflection and manipulation. If Hitler said 2+2=4, it would still be true. 1 2
Wuzzums Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Deflection and manipulation. If Hitler said 2+2=4, it would still be true. Oookay. Get back to me when yo have an actual plan that can further liberty and morality in the real world aside from complaining. 1
Guest Gee Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Trump stated that Snowden should be executed... That tells me all I need to know about Trump. Your thoughts? If you only have one bullet and in front of you is an enemy and a traitor, always shoot the traitor. Whether or not Snowdon is a traitor is a different question. By the by, anyone thinking Trump cucks on traitors would do well to remember this thread.
apples and grapes Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Trump stated that Snowden should be executed... That tells me all I need to know about Trump. Your thoughts? You mustn't want to know all that much about him then xD I for one want to know more, like what economic and foreign policy will he follow. And him wanting to ded Snowden doesn't tell me that =) 1
dsayers Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Oookay. Get back to me when yo have an actual plan that can further liberty and morality in the real world aside from complaining. Assertion and poisoning the well. Many people have been doing just this. As opposed to filling in a bubble on a piece of paper and patting ourselves on the back for "doing something." But I don't come here to polish laurels or get into a pissing match with you. I speak the truth and no amount of downvoting tantrums will change that. 2 4
Wuzzums Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Assertion and poisoning the well. Many people have been doing just this. As opposed to filling in a bubble on a piece of paper and patting ourselves on the back for "doing something." But I don't come here to polish laurels or get into a pissing match with you. I speak the truth and no amount of downvoting tantrums will change that. Sounds to me you're incapable of answering a simple question.
Mister Mister Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 So on one hand you have this guy that leaked classified information putting the lives of hundreds of millions of americans at risk. And on the other hand you have this other guy who makes anonymous donations to a ton of charities and sponsors the helpless. If I had to shoot one of them I know whom to pick. Not saying anyone should die, just saying a tweet does not negate decades of philanthropy. wait, whom did Snowden put at risk? I thought that all he leaked was that the NSA was collecting metadata on Americans in violation of the 4th amendment.
dsayers Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Sounds to me you're incapable of answering a simple question. Sounds to me like I care enough about myself to not allow abusive and manipulative people to inflict unchosen positive obligations upon me. And smart enough to recognize that you're putting forth a standard for others that you exempt yourself (and others who agree with you) from. 1 1
Wuzzums Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 wait, whom did Snowden put at risk? I thought that all he leaked was that the NSA was collecting metadata on Americans in violation of the 4th amendment. That AND foreign countries. This is why he's being called a traitor. He basically told on the US to its enemies. Sounds to me like I care enough about myself to not allow abusive and manipulative people to inflict unchosen positive obligations upon me. And smart enough to recognize that you're putting forth a standard for others that you exempt yourself (and others who agree with you) from. A basic rule I have for myself is to never listen to the advice of people who are beneath me in influence and/or action. An analogy of this would be: - never take dieting advice from a fat person - never take economic advice from a homeless man - never take painting advice from a blind person - never take writing advice from an illiterate person - etc So what's in it for me? Why should I follow your line of thinking? What's so great about your life that I should be tempted to emulate?
Chad Mitchell Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 Regardless of whether or not a Trump presidency was necessary for freedom of speech to be maintained, the Trump heroism has run rampant. I find it important to point out (sadly) that government and politicians are still evil. If you are the head of an evil institution then you are evil. He should not be celebrated and glorified in a community that recognizes the initiation of force as the foundation of immorality. Those are my thoughts. Thank you for stating this despite the fact that so many have bought into such a cult of personality. He may be a necessary evil to save Western Civilization, but that does not mean the institution itself or what Trump will do with it won't be evil. 1
Tyler H Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 Thank you for stating this despite the fact that so many have bought into such a cult of personality. He may be a necessary evil to save Western Civilization, but that does not mean the institution itself or what Trump will do with it won't be evil. Thank you for voicing your appreciation!
dsayers Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 Thank you for stating this despite the fact that so many have bought into such a cult of personality. He may be a necessary evil to save Western Civilization, but that does not mean the institution itself or what Trump will do with it won't be evil. I don't even buy into the narratives that "Western civilization" should be saved, that the US could dictate it, that Trump could control what the US does, or that the citizens could put Trump there. However, if you use "he may" as a philosophical jumping off point for consideration, I've voiced the idea that if this were a so-called "necessary" evil, then people would be disgusted with themselves for engaging in it, even as they acknowledged that it was necessary. This is not what we've seen. People were "ready to crawl on broken glass" to make it happen. Since it's happened, many of them have delighted in the tears of those whom they've enslaved. Others still refuse to acknowledge the truth of what they've done. To me, this is the null hypothesis that it was necessary. Just as it was not necessary for a parent to hit a child, it was not necessary for anarchists to use the gun of the State to inflict their will onto others. It's a mark of victimhood. Of unprocessed trauma. Of a displacement of rational thought. And I seriously question how much of it was group think since this of all places should understand and yield to these ideas as they have before.
Donnadogsoth Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 I don't even buy into the narratives that "Western civilization" should be saved, that the US could dictate it, that Trump could control what the US does, or that the citizens could put Trump there. However, if you use "he may" as a philosophical jumping off point for consideration, I've voiced the idea that if this were a so-called "necessary" evil, then people would be disgusted with themselves for engaging in it, even as they acknowledged that it was necessary. This is not what we've seen. People were "ready to crawl on broken glass" to make it happen. Since it's happened, many of them have delighted in the tears of those whom they've enslaved. Others still refuse to acknowledge the truth of what they've done. To me, this is the null hypothesis that it was necessary. Just as it was not necessary for a parent to hit a child, it was not necessary for anarchists to use the gun of the State to inflict their will onto others. It's a mark of victimhood. Of unprocessed trauma. Of a displacement of rational thought. And I seriously question how much of it was group think since this of all places should understand and yield to these ideas as they have before. If your way of thinking hasn't caught on here of all places, which is more or less a bastion of pro-Trump thinkers from the top on down, for the sake of saving the West that you deride and degrade, what hope do you have for it ever catching on?
dsayers Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 the West that you deride and degrade Strawman. 1) Saying that nobody has proven it should be saved is not deriding and degrading. 2) Saying that we've achieved better is not deriding and degrading. Pointing out that statism is a feature of western civilization, while a blight, is a statement of fact and therefore not deriding and degrading. There is a reason you cannot broach this topic head on and have to consistently reach for every fallacy in the book to pretend to offset it.
Donnadogsoth Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Strawman. 1) Saying that nobody has proven it should be saved is not deriding and degrading. 2) Saying that we've achieved better is not deriding and degrading. Pointing out that statism is a feature of western civilization, while a blight, is a statement of fact and therefore not deriding and degrading. There is a reason you cannot broach this topic head on and have to consistently reach for every fallacy in the book to pretend to offset it. Evasive as usual. Do you think there is anything worth saving in Western civilisation? If so, what?
dsayers Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Evasive as usual. Aw, poor manipulator can't pin down his intended prey. Decides to double down by poisoning the well as if rape evasion is a bad thing. Do you think there is anything worth saving in Western civilisation? If so, what? Western civilization is vague. I think your implication that because I understand the government is predicated on violations of property rights, it must mean I would reject everything that is associated with civilizations that utilize it is dishonest. What I think isn't relevant. Violations of property rights are immoral, the State is institutionalized violence, and people who talk about saving Western civilization don't engage in the rigor required to explain why it should be and to the extent that it would justify condoning human enslavement to achieve it. Challenge them. They'll show you what evasion really looks like.
Donnadogsoth Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Aw, poor manipulator can't pin down his intended prey. Decides to double down by poisoning the well as if rape evasion is a bad thing. Western civilization is vague. I think your implication that because I understand the government is predicated on violations of property rights, it must mean I would reject everything that is associated with civilizations that utilize it is dishonest. What I think isn't relevant. Violations of property rights are immoral, the State is institutionalized violence, and people who talk about saving Western civilization don't engage in the rigor required to explain why it should be and to the extent that it would justify condoning human enslavement to achieve it. Challenge them. They'll show you what evasion really looks like. How can I pin down raw spinal fluid? You're not really interested in solving problems, you're interested in your doctrine, which is based on your false principle of self-ownership. If you created something would you own it? Now, did you create yourself? So you are owned by Whatever created you. Your mind and body are on loan to you, they are not absolutely yours. I've already made my response to the essence of defending the West, which you evaded and ignored and willfully misunderstood because of your doctrine. Drop the Nietzschean act for a minute and try to understand what I am saying. Hammering away at the NAP is not the cure-all for the West's ills. 1
ValueOfBrevity Posted November 20, 2016 Posted November 20, 2016 That tells me all I need to know about Trump. Really? You only care about one issue?
AccuTron Posted November 20, 2016 Posted November 20, 2016 If you only have one bullet and in front of you is an enemy and a traitor, always shoot the traitor. ... An enemy is always and resolutely intent on my destruction, whereas a traitor is intent on my destruction only part time and could theoretically be talked out of it.
Guest Gee Posted November 20, 2016 Posted November 20, 2016 An enemy is always and resolutely intent on my destruction, whereas a traitor is intent on my destruction only part time and could theoretically be talked out of it. Reeeeeaaaaaalllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyy?
sweathog1 Posted November 22, 2016 Posted November 22, 2016 Don't know how the American security system works, but I imagine that all are similar amongst all countries. Two things which are absolute, which are: a need to know and cleared to that level. You may have a security clearance of "Top Secret" for awhile depending on what you do and for how long you are on that particular base or site and for how long it takes to complete the job. Once the job is done or something similar you lose that clearance. Everyone knows that, and it is hammered into your bones. You don't go snooping or hacking into places your not supposed to be. Speaking of hammering, was shoveling off the snow on the garage roof, slid off the tin roof, automatically this old fart landing just right unconsciously, got up and walked away.
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