(New Member) Dealing With Girlfriends Liberal Parents

[CaliforniaCoaster]

Hello FDR members, 

Long time listener here.

Figured I had a situation happening to me that you might all find amusing. 

I've recently moved into an apartment with my girlfriend of 3 years, (Both in our early-mid twenties, graduated from top 10 public university) but we are running into a problem with her parents "loving kindness."

Her parents are extremely liberal, (watch Rachel Maddow religiously), get their news from salon and huffington post, and her father is a Berkeley graduate. Also they are (HUGELY) anti-gun. 

I don't care that they hold different views, many members of my family hold different views, the problem is they seem to be in a bubble of left wing thought and they view anyone with right wing leanings as lacking empathy and being bad people in general. It's starting to eat away at me since clearly they don't respect me. 

After graduation, my girlfriend and I had planned to move to Austin, Texas, in order to take advantage of the tech boom happening there. Her parents wanted none of it, and told her she would be "ruining her life" if she moved to Texas, but that left wing states would be fine to move to. (Washington, etc) They refused to listen to logic, and would get angry at her for suggesting that California would be a bad place for a young couple to live. They pushed for her to move to San Francisco or LA, but she ended up getting a great job elsewhere in the state. This made my girlfriend very upset, and she has been pushing for them to apologize since the event. However, they just double down and tell her that they dismiss her because they love her, and that her live would have been ruined had she moved to Texas. 

My girlfriend has visited them since, and she got in an argument with them over common core education and the recent migrant crisis. She told me her parents said her views "changed for the worst," and "Would a good person hold these kinds of views?" She got very upset by their manipulation of her views, and started limited her time around them. They got angrier, and would tell her things like how she didn't have any problems until she met me, and how they don't deserve her trying to have distance from them. (Again, I don't think I'm very liked by her family.)

So recently they have been guilt tripping her, and telling her that they don't deserve her "need some space" treatment, and that my girlfriend is making them so worried that she needs to just hurry up and end this. She tried talking to her sister about it, but her sister just doubled down that my girlfriend is too smart to hold any conservative views, and that she doesn't understand how my girlfriend could go from having empathy to having none. 


I pushed for my girlfriend to work with a family therapist about all this, and so she is trying to work on setting boundaries. 

Personally, I'm lost for what to do.

I'm stuck in a state I hate. (California) Hard to make friends since Commiefornia is extremely anti-conservative white male. I've been applying for jobs and get no calls back despite holding two A.S. degrees and a B.S. degree in economics. My girlfriend's parents pretty much hate me and think my views aren't just different but morally repugnant. I feel like I can't complain since my girlfriend is paying more of the bills while I search for work. (I've been taking minimum wage gigs just to get by but it's soul crushing after 6 years of education) I am just getting more and more unhappy hearing about how her family feels about my views.

I've been dealing with rumination and Pure-OCD like thoughts lately also but I haven't seen any FDR podcast on rumination and OCD, and can't afford to see a CBT therapist right now. 


Any advice from members on how to deal with in-law type figures who dislike you? 
 

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

"Would a good person hold these kinds of views?"

 

"Yes.

 

Any other questions?"

 

I don't have any advice for dealing with in-laws or for therapy. Your situation sounds rough and I've known some parents of friends who are like what you've described.

I will say this, though:

 

It's painful to discover that your degrees are literally economically worthless--even ironically economically worthless for your economics degree. I think, and this is coming from someone with a BS in chemistry, the sooner you accept that your degrees won't help you, the sooner you can go forth into the world without leaning on them.

 

From what I was able to gather from your writing style, and correct me if I'm wrong here, your attitude is starting to eat you alive because of your rough situation. You seem like a good guy that works hard that just can't move in the direction he wants, stuck in a Catch 22 where you would have more confidence if you could start pulling more weight, but you can't pull more weight until you get some more confidence (the reason I point this out is because I've been there). Coming up with a working plan and moving forward with it with confidence will start to adjust your mood. A better mood will help make these problems seem more manageable. 

 

Good luck in Cali.
 

[thecurrentyear]

I'm sorry you're going through this. It seems like there was a step missed in your story. Why/how did you and your girlfriend decide to change plans and cancel your move to Austin? That's my main question at the moment. I hope you're able to find what you need here.

[A4E]

I was thinking about your situation for 10 minutes now, and my final conclusion is that it would probably be best with a a call in to the show.

 

My other thoughts are:

 

-The guilt trips from her parents are likely having seriously negative effects on your gf's psychological health.

 

-The relationship between your gf and her parents seems tense. And so obviously they are not going to have any productive conversations between them. That coupled with the guilt trips is evidence that the relationship she has with her parents is not well. And probably has not been for a long time.

 

-One theory I can think of that the in laws are so negative to their daughter having a conservative bf is how they will look to other people. They probably do not want their (liberal) friends or relatives to ask questions about their daughter's relationship with you. I have personal experience with how people concerned about how they will look to other people, creates a lot of problems in ie a family. There are people (with children) who are VERY scared of how other people would think about them.

 

-Unless you actually did something substantive to make the in laws not like you, that you could apologize for, it is hard for me to see a way to improve your relationship with them. Did you spend time with her in laws? What did you talk about?

[jpahmad]

Don't they know that Austin is a liberal haven?

[CaliforniaCoaster]

@ Dylan Lawrence Moore

Yea, I graduated high school at the peak of the great recession, so I'm not sure that helped with my confidence as the only work I was able to find while attending college was low paying retail jobs. Other than that you're pretty spot on, just trying to exercise more to keep the lethargy away as I try to figure something out.

@  thecurrentyear 

We decided to change our plans after her (the gf) parents sat her down and basically told her that moving to Texas would be "ruining her life." (Their exact words.) My girlfriend was also worried about moving states and not having insurance, which her parents were quick to remind her about. I told her that once she got a new job she could get new insurance, but then they told her that the medical care in Texas is sub-par. So in the end, I just ended the discussion since it was more of a team effort or none. (Since I'm planning on marrying her.)   

@ A4E
I've thought about a call in to the show. I brought it up with her and she didn't dismiss the idea, but I'm not sure how comfortable she (or I) am with being that public about things. (People might recognize our voices, etc) 

-The guilt trips from her parents are likely having seriously negative effects on your gf's psychological health.
Yea, she's taking it rough since her sister brought up how she shouldn't be making them worry since they are old and it can effect their health. 

 

-The relationship between your gf and her parents seems tense. And so obviously they are not going to have any productive conversations between them. That coupled with the guilt trips is evidence that the relationship she has with her parents is not well. And probably has not been for a long time.
I've talked to her about this and she tells me she didn't think her relationship was poor with her parents until she stopped parroting what they desire her views to be. Also, when I was with them all visiting Liberal Mecca (San Francisco) they were talking about how they controlled my girlfriends finances even while she was attending college. I found this odd since my own parents basically told me to figure it out (with a little guidance) when I was learning how to apply for college, financial aid, taxes, etc. I never had my parents doing it all for my to where I was so dependent on them. 

My girlfriend keeps trying to get them to see how they were hurtful to her, and trying to get an apology, but her conversations so far are just circular. It's always how no matter what they did it was out of love, and that they don't deserve her pushing away when they were god parents. 

 

- One theory I can think of that the in laws are so negative to their daughter having a conservative bf is how they will look to other people. They probably do not want their (liberal) friends or relatives to ask questions about their daughter's relationship with you. I have personal experience with how people concerned about how they will look to other people, creates a lot of problems in ie a family. There are people (with children) who are VERY scared of how other people would think about them.

I was thinking the same thing - vanity. However, when I ask my gf about her parents she said they don't really have any friends besides one other couple. While that couple is also liberal, my gf said that her parents friends try to stay away from politics since her parents get so annoying with it. Her parents spend a lot of time with her sister and her sister's boyfriend, but other than that I don't think that have a lot of close friendships. I'm not sure however, just what I've been told. 

The one thing I did noticed after listening to FDR was how her mother talks about her brother who (defoo'd) to a degree by moving far away from the family of origin. It's all about how he was tricked into moving away by his manipulative wife, (not that he had agency and didn't want to live around his family any more.) 

Personally, it's bothersome since my gf's sister is dating a guy who majored in "movies" and works as a bartender, but he is very liberal so naturally the parents like him a lot. I still kinda wish her parents liked me more, or that our views were similar in some way. 
 

 

-Unless you actually did something substantive to make the in laws not like you, that you could apologize for, it is hard for me to see a way to improve your relationship with them. Did you spend time with her in laws? What did you talk about?

Well, I did spend the holidays with them last year as a gesture of my seriousness in dating their daughter. It went decently enough. While politics came up, and it got annoying, it wasn't anything that was unbearable. However, I naturally have an anxiety for large crowded spaces, so I was a little unsociable when they would want to go out to large malls and such. At the time I was going through my own issues with my family, so I was drained and not in my best presentation to "show off" to her parents.

We visited a couple months after the Christmas season, and this time it didn't go so well since my girlfriend and I had a fight while out on her sister's birthday. It was hard, but I apologized to her sister and her parents and explained to them that I was dealing with a lot of anxiety and that I was having a bad day. I didn't try to play the victim card, even though there were things that were really annoying me the whole night with how people were acting. (Just pecking away bit by bit.) I just took all the blame and sincerely apologized. We also talked about politics during this time, but I didn't really like it that much.

When we did talk, I tried to keep it about them a lot of the time. Asking them questions about themselves and the area they lived. Her mother and I both enjoy plants so I gifted a small plant and such. All in all it didn't seem bad, there's just the problem of how political they get, and there's no "logic" behind it so much that republicans are bad people. Here's a quick list of things I remember. (I didn't take the bate on most and just ignored them/changed the subject when they started talking about most of these topics.)

- Voter ID laws are racist. 
- There is no evidence that illegals have ever voted.
- Scalia was a horrible person.
- All Syrian refugees should be let in. (Unethical not to) 
- Obama's (Women make 70 cents to the dollar) comment was accurate, women are primarily discriminated against in workplace. 
- The ACA (obamacare) is AMAZING. "Do not question anything about obama care" I was told by my gf.) 
- Diversity is amazing. (As they live in a very well off white/asian community) while I grew up in a lower middle class barrio-sh area. 
- They absolutely LOVE gay people. (Not even sure why they told me this other than maybe thinking I was homophobic after I told them I was raised baptist. lol) 
- Common core is fantastic. (Actually argued with them on this since my gf is really into education, that's when I realized how bad they are with ideological stances) 
- Cops are shooting innocent people in the streets. (Pro black lives matter)
- All guns should be banned. Even from police. 
- Comedians shouldn't say mean things. 
- They feel uncomfortable seeing soldiers walk around in their PT's? (Odd one I heard from her mother while in SF.)
- People who oppose mass immigration into america are heartless and lack empathy. 
- The bell cure is a lie, and there is no evidence to support a race and IQ correlation. Blank slate theory all the way. 
- Armenians are terrible to have around, but Muslims are amazing. (I'm thinking because Armenians are conservative, in group preference, by in large) 
- People who are conservative are like that because they are dumb/uneducated. 

Basically just throw up whatever Rachel Maddow talked about on her show that night, throw in a little Salon.com headlines and you have what I have to hear for the day while visiting her parents. Oh, also neither one of her parents have really worked in the Private sector. Both worked in a HEAVILY government subsidized industry. 








 

 

[A4E]

Wow. Thanks for sharing. Quite interesting. I take it they are heavily down with the current leftist narrative. You should have put "heavily" in the topic.

 

I am kind of in shock after that post. Don't know what to say. I am sure others here can help more than me.

 

So they just blatantly insinuated that you are bad, and dumb in front of your gf? Did you insult them in any way? ie did you lead off with "Dont you understand that...!?" Or were you more of a gentleman, leading off like "I understand what you mean, but I believe that...". Just curious. I have to be honest that there does not seem to be much leeway for them to like you. And I am afraid of trying to motivate you to expend energy on that front because it can be futile.

 

Are they nice people other than guilt tripping their daughter and slandering conservatives?

 

If you could get in good terms with her parents, do you think other areas of your life, and your relationship would improve?

[labmath2]

 

@ Dylan Lawrence Moore

 

Yea, I graduated high school at the peak of the great recession, so I'm not sure that helped with my confidence as the only work I was able to find while attending college was low paying retail jobs. Other than that you're pretty spot on, just trying to exercise more to keep the lethargy away as I try to figure something out.

 

@ thecurrentyear

 

We decided to change our plans after her (the gf) parents sat her down and basically told her that moving to Texas would be "ruining her life." (Their exact words.) My girlfriend was also worried about moving states and not having insurance, which her parents were quick to remind her about. I told her that once she got a new job she could get new insurance, but then they told her that the medical care in Texas is sub-par. So in the end, I just ended the discussion since it was more of a team effort or none. (Since I'm planning on marrying her.)

 

@ A4E

I've thought about a call in to the show. I brought it up with her and she didn't dismiss the idea, but I'm not sure how comfortable she (or I) am with being that public about things. (People might recognize our voices, etc)

 

-The guilt trips from her parents are likely having seriously negative effects on your gf's psychological health.

Yea, she's taking it rough since her sister brought up how she shouldn't be making them worry since they are old and it can effect their health.

-The relationship between your gf and her parents seems tense. And so obviously they are not going to have any productive conversations between them. That coupled with the guilt trips is evidence that the relationship she has with her parents is not well. And probably has not been for a long time.

I've talked to her about this and she tells me she didn't think her relationship was poor with her parents until she stopped parroting what they desire her views to be. Also, when I was with them all visiting Liberal Mecca (San Francisco) they were talking about how they controlled my girlfriends finances even while she was attending college. I found this odd since my own parents basically told me to figure it out (with a little guidance) when I was learning how to apply for college, financial aid, taxes, etc. I never had my parents doing it all for my to where I was so dependent on them.

 

My girlfriend keeps trying to get them to see how they were hurtful to her, and trying to get an apology, but her conversations so far are just circular. It's always how no matter what they did it was out of love, and that they don't deserve her pushing away when they were god parents.

- One theory I can think of that the in laws are so negative to their daughter having a conservative bf is how they will look to other people. They probably do not want their (liberal) friends or relatives to ask questions about their daughter's relationship with you. I have personal experience with how people concerned about how they will look to other people, creates a lot of problems in ie a family. There are people (with children) who are VERY scared of how other people would think about them.

 

I was thinking the same thing - vanity. However, when I ask my gf about her parents she said they don't really have any friends besides one other couple. While that couple is also liberal, my gf said that her parents friends try to stay away from politics since her parents get so annoying with it. Her parents spend a lot of time with her sister and her sister's boyfriend, but other than that I don't think that have a lot of close friendships. I'm not sure however, just what I've been told.

 

The one thing I did noticed after listening to FDR was how her mother talks about her brother who (defoo'd) to a degree by moving far away from the family of origin. It's all about how he was tricked into moving away by his manipulative wife, (not that he had agency and didn't want to live around his family any more.)

 

Personally, it's bothersome since my gf's sister is dating a guy who majored in "movies" and works as a bartender, but he is very liberal so naturally the parents like him a lot. I still kinda wish her parents liked me more, or that our views were similar in some way.

-Unless you actually did something substantive to make the in laws not like you, that you could apologize for, it is hard for me to see a way to improve your relationship with them. Did you spend time with her in laws? What did you talk about?

 

Well, I did spend the holidays with them last year as a gesture of my seriousness in dating their daughter. It went decently enough. While politics came up, and it got annoying, it wasn't anything that was unbearable. However, I naturally have an anxiety for large crowded spaces, so I was a little unsociable when they would want to go out to large malls and such. At the time I was going through my own issues with my family, so I was drained and not in my best presentation to "show off" to her parents.

 

We visited a couple months after the Christmas season, and this time it didn't go so well since my girlfriend and I had a fight while out on her sister's birthday. It was hard, but I apologized to her sister and her parents and explained to them that I was dealing with a lot of anxiety and that I was having a bad day. I didn't try to play the victim card, even though there were things that were really annoying me the whole night with how people were acting. (Just pecking away bit by bit.) I just took all the blame and sincerely apologized. We also talked about politics during this time, but I didn't really like it that much.

 

When we did talk, I tried to keep it about them a lot of the time. Asking them questions about themselves and the area they lived. Her mother and I both enjoy plants so I gifted a small plant and such. All in all it didn't seem bad, there's just the problem of how political they get, and there's no "logic" behind it so much that republicans are bad people. Here's a quick list of things I remember. (I didn't take the bate on most and just ignored them/changed the subject when they started talking about most of these topics.)

 

- Voter ID laws are racist.

- There is no evidence that illegals have ever voted.

- Scalia was a horrible person.

- All Syrian refugees should be let in. (Unethical not to)

- Obama's (Women make 70 cents to the dollar) comment was accurate, women are primarily discriminated against in workplace.

- The ACA (obamacare) is AMAZING. "Do not question anything about obama care" I was told by my gf.)

- Diversity is amazing. (As they live in a very well off white/asian community) while I grew up in a lower middle class barrio-sh area.

- They absolutely LOVE gay people. (Not even sure why they told me this other than maybe thinking I was homophobic after I told them I was raised baptist. lol)

- Common core is fantastic. (Actually argued with them on this since my gf is really into education, that's when I realized how bad they are with ideological stances)

- Cops are shooting innocent people in the streets. (Pro black lives matter)

- All guns should be banned. Even from police.

- Comedians shouldn't say mean things.

- They feel uncomfortable seeing soldiers walk around in their PT's? (Odd one I heard from her mother while in SF.)

- People who oppose mass immigration into america are heartless and lack empathy.

- The bell cure is a lie, and there is no evidence to support a race and IQ correlation. Blank slate theory all the way.

- Armenians are terrible to have around, but Muslims are amazing. (I'm thinking because Armenians are conservative, in group preference, by in large)

- People who are conservative are like that because they are dumb/uneducated.

 

Basically just throw up whatever Rachel Maddow talked about on her show that night, throw in a little Salon.com headlines and you have what I have to hear for the day while visiting her parents. Oh, also neither one of her parents have really worked in the Private sector. Both worked in a HEAVILY government subsidized industry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After reading this it's clear you are approaching this all wrong. What you need is practice in having casual conversations, not a lesson in how to persuade hardliners. Try having conversations with strangers everytime you have a chance. This means not talking politics or philosophy. Talk about clothing, some cool thing you just did/found out, a book, their next vacation plan ... You get the idea. I know this sound like terrible advice but the alternative is reading a few books on persuation techniques and hoping you do well as an amateur.

[CaliforniaCoaster]

After reading this it's clear you are approaching this all wrong. What you need is practice in having casual conversations, not a lesson in how to persuade hardliners. Try having conversations with strangers everytime you have a chance. This means not talking politics or philosophy. Talk about clothing, some cool thing you just did/found out, a book, their next vacation plan ... You get the idea. I know this sound like terrible advice but the alternative is reading a few books on persuation techniques and hoping you do well as an amateur.

I'm not sure it's my casual conversation abilities that's the problem. I had to have casual conversation abilities with people in retail all the time. My only problem is how much I hate self-erasing (probably due to my childhood and self erasing around my own parents to keep things peaceful.) So if I'm working and have to talk to many strangers about their political views (like doing polling,) then usually I just agree and smile and keep things nice. With her parents however, I try to be cool but at the same time feel strange that I have to self-erase around them. It's an uncomfortable feeling since I feel like I'm with their daughter, and would like to strive for a more honest relationship with them. Then again, if that's impossible maybe just accept the superficial relationship?

 

Wow. Thanks for sharing. Quite interesting. I take it they are heavily down with the current leftist narrative. You should have put "heavily" in the topic.

 

I am kind of in shock after that post. Don't know what to say. I am sure others here can help more than me.

 

So they just blatantly insinuated that you are bad, and dumb in front of your gf? Did you insult them in any way? ie did you lead off with "Dont you understand that...!?" Or were you more of a gentleman, leading off like "I understand what you mean, but I believe that...". Just curious. I have to be honest that there does not seem to be much leeway for them to like you. And I am afraid of trying to motivate you to expend energy on that front because it can be futile.

 

Are they nice people other than guilt tripping their daughter and slandering conservatives?

 

If you could get in good terms with her parents, do you think other areas of your life, and your relationship would improve?

I don't believe I have insulted them in any major way. Maybe they are insulted that I don't hold their views to a higher degree? Like change my mind on gun control when they tell me guns kill or something.

 

The only thing I can think of is I debated (halfheartedly) on some of the topics that came up. I never use language like "Don't you understand that" or anything like that. The one thing we have done is talk about how quickly things at college have changed and the new challenges of the job market. 

 

It just pisses me off because I feel like I'm good to their daughter, but they act like I don't exist. When my girlfriend used to talk to her mom she would hear all about her sister and her sister's boyfriend, and how good he's doing trying to be a big screen writer. Where as they would show little to no interest in me. I found this odd since when I talked to my own family they would be interested in how my girlfriend and I were doing as a team. I'm not even sure my girlfriend could share my interest with them since my interest tend to fall into things they would argue about. 

 

If the relationship got better I feel like I would have more released mental energy to focus on other things. About a year before this I used a lot of energy trying to change the relationship I had with my own parents. (Still in works)

 

However, I've dealt with very heavy ruminations and pure-ocd like symptoms for over a year now after a really hard time in my life. So even if I change these problems I'm not sure my life will improve at all, or if my attention will just change to some other area of my life to feel terrible about.

 

I've been trying to figure out how to deal with some of the underlying anxiety and mood issues, but I can't seem to find any rumination / pure-ocd advice on FDR. It would be nice to feel like I'm myself and not in the closet around her parents. Hell, it would be nice if I was able to support myself and my girlfriend so I could feel more successful around her parents. 

[laurenvonhuff]

I understand that feeling! Dealing with a very liberal dad is a challenge to say the least...

[A4E]

I am guessing you have done your fair share of research on rumination?

 

Your explanations are very detailed and look very honest. That is great. Makes it much easier for people here to help.

 

I have to admit this looks like a complicated issue that, like you say, quite obviously goes deeper than her liberal parents, because of your detailed explanations.

 

I am very curious about an area that I don't think you have spoken much about yet. How is your relationship with your gf? On a scale from 0 to 10, how would you evaluate things like trust, honesty, openness, loyalty...?

 

Do you have fun? Like real smiling, laughing? Or is the atmosphere tense enough that both of you do not feel like having joy in anything? Or is it somewhere in the middle?

[A4E]

I am also wondering if it was you yourself who figured out you have rumination, or if someone else told you that you have it. And whether you are poisoning your body and mind with any pharmaceuticals.

[CaliforniaCoaster]

I am guessing you have done your fair share of research on rumination?

 

 

Your explanations are very detailed and look very honest. That is great. Makes it much easier for people here to help.

 

I have to admit this looks like a complicated issue that, like you say, quite obviously goes deeper than her liberal parents, because of your detailed explanations.

 

I am very curious about an area that I don't think you have spoken much about yet. How is your relationship with your gf? On a scale from 0 to 10, how would you evaluate things like trust, honesty, openness, loyalty...?

 

Do you have fun? Like real smiling, laughing? Or is the atmosphere tense enough that both of you do not feel like having joy in anything? Or is it somewhere in the middle?

I've researched a lot about rumination and Pure-OCD and how people treat it. Typically it's a lot of exposure and response therapy along with other CBT and mindfulness treatments. I've had different worries/obsessions that don't seem logical in the least. These thoughts feel like they are taking up CPU room in my brain, keeping me from fully focusing on things I want to achieve. Then again, the obsessions, anxieties, and thoughts could also be there to try to pull me back from getting hurt. A protective mechanism of sorts to keep me from achieving since it will shake up how people see me.

 

Things with the girlfriend and pretty good. I'd say probably a consistent 5-9 on our worst and best days. I will have ruminations of all the things that could go wrong with the relationship, and worry about all kinds of "threats" that might sabotage what we have. So I don't like how I kinda kick myself out of enjoying the moment by always over analyzing everything.  

 

I found out when I had a small meltdown when I was in university. My girlfriend pushed to have me talk to a counselor and he told me that I have OCD symptoms but that he suspected that I was definitely depressed. He said the depression probably started first after some bad breakups with past girlfriends and that led to rumination which led to every fear seeming larger than life. They did end up putting me on SSRI drugs (Which I absolutely hated) for just under a year, until I decided to come off them and face my problems without them. It was also around this time that I discovered FDR, and watched the "Bomb in the Brain" series that led me down a path of introspection and growth. 

[A4E]

I lost a very long time online friend and team worker mostly to pharmaceuticals. He died this year. So my stomach dropped when I read the SSRI part. But was relieved when you said you are off them now.

[CaliforniaCoaster]

I lost a very long time online friend and team worker mostly to pharmaceuticals. He died this year. So my stomach dropped when I read the SSRI part. But was relieved when you said you are off them now.

I am terribly sorry to hear that. Did he ever share what he was struggling with and why they prescribed him SSRI drugs? 

 

While I never felt like the SSRI was a danger to me, it definitely made me feel different than my own self. Unfortunately, SSRI's are heavily subscribed (and in MASSIVE dosages) for people who are believed to have Pure-OCD like symptoms. (Excessive research, doubt, anxiety, and rumination) They wanted me to go onto a very high dose and I flat out refused knowing that I may become dependent on these drugs. 

[A4E]

I am terribly sorry to hear that. Did he ever share what he was struggling with and why they prescribed him SSRI drugs? 

 

He was an outgoing person, so he shared most things regarding his battles with the health mafia. He was testing out all kinds of pharmaceuticals that he was prescribed (because white coats just hand out stuff like candy), and believed he was getting closer to the 'one true combination' that will solve his psychological and health problems. And was talking about how depressed and exhausted and tired he was of trying to make the white coats give him the "right stuff".

 

I am not educated in which ones of the magically named poisons is SSRI drugs, but its safe to say he tried most of them. The exact reason why it started I do not remember. But as we all know, you will be offered all kinds of things if you only say that you have a headache or something, so its certainly not hard to begin on the spiraling pathway to hell. in example, like you mention, you would just need some diagnosis from a white coat that you are depressed, and there you go. And even if it is absolutely true that one is depressed, depression is a natural part of being alive and human. Toxic symptom remedies, which is most pharmaceuticals, is not the answer.

 

 

and I flat out refused knowing that I may become dependent on these drugs.

I don't think "may" is the correct word to use. "will" would fit more. I am pretty sure at least some of them actually change the brain significantly, when used continuously. I know that I became slightly retarded from using just one artificial hormone for low metabolism for 10 years, that I stopped 8 years ago.

[thecurrentyear]

I haven't read everything. I apologize I don't have a lot of time to spend but wanted to at least address this:
 

@  thecurrentyear 

We decided to change our plans after her (the gf) parents sat her down and basically told her that moving to Texas would be "ruining her life." (Their exact words.) My girlfriend was also worried about moving states and not having insurance, which her parents were quick to remind her about. I told her that once she got a new job she could get new insurance, but then they told her that the medical care in Texas is sub-par. So in the end, I just ended the discussion since it was more of a team effort or none. (Since I'm planning on marrying her.)  

 

 

It sounds to me like you changed your plans on *where to live* and ultimately the *direction of your life with your future wife* in order to appease them. Does that sound accurate to you? Because you seem to be doing a fogging job to obscure the facts in how this went down. And you are either aware of it or not. If not, then your first persuasion job should be on yourself. To understand why you are doing what you are doing, and how to change yourself to be more assertive and aware of your own preferences, needs, wants. Until then, you are not going to have much success persuading anyone else. Just my opinion.

[CaliforniaCoaster]

I haven't read everything. I apologize I don't have a lot of time to spend but wanted to at least address this:

 

 

It sounds to me like you changed your plans on *where to live* and ultimately the *direction of your life with your future wife* in order to appease them. Does that sound accurate to you? Because you seem to be doing a fogging job to obscure the facts in how this went down. And you are either aware of it or not. If not, then your first persuasion job should be on yourself. To understand why you are doing what you are doing, and how to change yourself to be more assertive and aware of your own preferences, needs, wants. Until then, you are not going to have much success persuading anyone else. Just my opinion.

I think you're right in that I was not aware of my fogging. I'm not sure if it was to appease them 100% or if a part of me was also scared to move to a new state so it was the least resistance to just do nothing as it all happened. I mean, I don't even know how I really feel about it still and I'm unsure of how to get to "good enough" realizations on topics. 

 

I'm also not sure how to persuade myself, since that's a big problem with my ruminations. I question everything in my life to the point where I'm unsure of taking action out of fear that I could be lying to myself or hurt others. I'm unsure where this comes from, but the therapist I was able to see just told me I had " pure-ocd " like symptoms and that they are nothing but thoughts and to go out and do things in the world anyway. But then I'm trapped thinking about why I have certain thoughts, or doubting the reality I see around myself. (For instance, after I was cheated on, despite getting negative test results for STD's I would still get anxiety and worry that the test was a false negative and that I could potentially hurt my current gf. There are many other types of "doubting" themes like this that I will spend time worrying on.)

 

He was an outgoing person, so he shared most things regarding his battles with the health mafia. He was testing out all kinds of pharmaceuticals that he was prescribed (because white coats just hand out stuff like candy), and believed he was getting closer to the 'one true combination' that will solve his psychological and health problems. And was talking about how depressed and exhausted and tired he was of trying to make the white coats give him the "right stuff".

 

I am not educated in which ones of the magically named poisons is SSRI drugs, but its safe to say he tried most of them. The exact reason why it started I do not remember. But as we all know, you will be offered all kinds of things if you only say that you have a headache or something, so its certainly not hard to begin on the spiraling pathway to hell. in example, like you mention, you would just need some diagnosis from a white coat that you are depressed, and there you go. And even if it is absolutely true that one is depressed, depression is a natural part of being alive and human. Toxic symptom remedies, which is most pharmaceuticals, is not the answer.

 

I don't think "may" is the correct word to use. "will" would fit more. I am pretty sure at least some of them actually change the brain significantly, when used continuously. I know that I became slightly retarded from using just one artificial hormone for low metabolism for 10 years, that I stopped 8 years ago.

I can't imagine mixing that stuff like your friend did. Just forgetting to take my dose for the day would cause me to get headaches. 

 

Yea, I'd say that my brain doesn't run like it used to before depression and SSRI's. As far as handing them out like candy - I argued with the therapist about starting them and he seemed like he didn't like me being against them. The medical doctor I had was old school (vietnam era) doc and he told me I should try just plain old CBT, but I didn't have the funds for that so I was stuck with the "free" SSRI option. I mean, in the end I made the choice to try SSRI's on the off chance they would end my ruminations and constant doubt. 

 

As a child I took IQ test and scored very well for my age, but then recently I took similar test and scored in the 110 to 115-ish area which made me even more depressed. Since most CEO types are IQ > 115 it sucks to feel like I might not have the hardware to achieve my goals. I know these online test are usually inaccurate, but it still annoys the hell out of me that I feel like my brain and cognitive abilities are in decline despite being in college for 6 years. 

[A4E]

You will get skilled in what you do. If you do not do it, you will not get skilled, nor reach your goals. When you were in college you did not DO anything. Just read about how to do things, or read about how other people do things, or read about what people in history did, or read about how to best conform to society. Society and technology was not built by people who conformed, but people who did something.

 

Forget IQ, Just do it. You are not going to wake up one day, take an IQ test and get a high score and then reach your goal. Does not work that way.

 

Don't look up to IQ tests. Look up to yourself. You are alive and have the great gift of being in control of a very advanced lifeform in this universe. Seize the opportunities this brings you. Do not look at problems more than is in your best interest. Find solutions. Look up to solutions. 'Solutions' is your new best friend who enjoys chatting with you and wants to spend time working on things together with you. 'Problems' is that guy who pretends to be nice to you, and then talks dirt behind your back and steals your stuff. Get rid of that guy, he is absolutely not good for you.

 

And perhaps most important. Don't listen to other people. Most of them will just drag you down with them. Be in a constant search for experts who have been doing positive work for years. Those are the people that can and will help you enormously. Elbow away all the energy zapping people who want you to conform to their opinions, which includes that doctor you mentioned, he does not have a clue on how to get healthy, or he knows, and works as a doctor for the money and do not care about people like you. (my proof is that he offered you SSRIs).

[Caley McKibbin]

They are not all wrong about empathy.  It's technically difficult to have empathy for people that are unlike you.  So they feel guilty about their lack of merit putting them in a better position than billions of other mediocre people.  But they will never make any sacrifices out of their own lives to help anyone else.  So too would all of those people that they empathize with never do the same for them if the situation was reversed.  Talk is cheap.  This is why people that play the empathy card are not concerned about sticking a fork in a cow's back.  It's not others' suffering they care about.  It's that their self-classification reflects anything they say about how others in their own class should be treated back to themselves as a benefit.  That bullshit has discoverable limits.  If you ask them whether the United States should fund health care for everyone on Earth that can't afford it they will suddenly be less enthusiastic because the 1% can't cover that many.  They will need to contribute.  So some excuse will be made.  Even if we can't predict the exact excuse, we can generally predict that one will be forthcoming for every instance when it is in their power to change someone else's life.  Empathy politics is really just a strategy of surreptitious self-promotion.  It's no good if it costs you more than you receive.

 

If they accuse you of being dumb or uneducated, that is easy.  Issue the following challenge to them: a contest wherein you all take an IQ test or any test of their choice that they think measures that, then post public videos on YouTube showing your score certificates and stating your full names, then send the video links to all family, friends, co-workers and employers.  Regardless of how you might guess at the result, they will completely wimp out, at which point you can put them in their place.  Call them out on pre-emptively wimping out with blank slate to cover for themselves.  It's a rhetorical challenge.  People that fart big never have the shit to back it up.  That is precisely why they fart big.  People that have proof begin with proof, not with bluster.  These people are little more than blustering trash talkers that need to be stomped down a notch or two.  In a case like this humiliation is the kind of persuasion that is needed.  There's Bryan Caplan's study, sure, but it's a lot more crushing to reveal how afraid of being tested the person you are talking to is.

 

There were discussions on the LvMI forums about getting work as an economist.
 

As a career economist you're going to need a PhD, and this means that you must be extremely talented in both economic research, theory, and mathematics. Don't even think about becoming an economist unless you're a math genius. The entire profession, and basically all of the respected graduate programs, place extreme emphasis on mathematics.

Additionally, I was told that an M.A. in economics is basically useless, and that M.B.A.'s are much more competitive in the labor market. An M.A. in economics seems to be useful insofar as it allows you to teach basic economics at junior colleges. I'm not sure if this is entirely true, but it's what I've been told (by professors, advisors, and graduate students).

A B.S. or B.A. in economics wont open too many doors for you. I can tell you that, as a recent college graduate with a B.S. in economics (with a 4.0 major GPA and a 3.93 cumulative GPA), that I'm unable to find work in the private sector (I've been turned down for a few internships as well). So far, the only jobs available are government jobs (such as bank regulator, state program examiner, and municipal affairs examiner). I'm quite sure that this is partially due to the fact that most economics majors go into banking which is, at the moment, a devastated industry, comprised of zombie banks that require continuous capital and liquidity injections, as well as an artificially steep yield curve, just to stay in business.

http://archive.freecapitalists.org/forums/t/22075.aspx

[CaliforniaCoaster]

Thank you for all the great replies guys. 

 

You will get skilled in what you do. If you do not do it, you will not get skilled, nor reach your goals. When you were in college you did not DO anything. Just read about how to do things, or read about how other people do things, or read about what people in history did, or read about how to best conform to society. Society and technology was not built by people who conformed, but people who did something.

 

Forget IQ, Just do it. You are not going to wake up one day, take an IQ test and get a high score and then reach your goal. Does not work that way.

 

Don't look up to IQ tests. Look up to yourself. You are alive and have the great gift of being in control of a very advanced lifeform in this universe. Seize the opportunities this brings you. Do not look at problems more than is in your best interest. Find solutions. Look up to solutions. 'Solutions' is your new best friend who enjoys chatting with you and wants to spend time working on things together with you. 'Problems' is that guy who pretends to be nice to you, and then talks dirt behind your back and steals your stuff. Get rid of that guy, he is absolutely not good for you.

 

And perhaps most important. Don't listen to other people. Most of them will just drag you down with them. Be in a constant search for experts who have been doing positive work for years. Those are the people that can and will help you enormously. Elbow away all the energy zapping people who want you to conform to their opinions, which includes that doctor you mentioned, he does not have a clue on how to get healthy, or he knows, and works as a doctor for the money and do not care about people like you. (my proof is that he offered you SSRIs).

I'd like to start doing more, but then my social anxiety acts up and I have intrusive thoughts and over analyze social interactions. I've done this for as long as I can remember. Most treatment is just "ignore your thoughts," but then I try to analyze why I have these kinds of self-defeating thoughts and why others don't. 

After reading your post I finally went through with contacting a CBT therapist in my area to work out some things. I'm worried about how seeking therapy will look in any background checks for jobs I've been applying for, but I need to be more solution oriented like you said and quit worrying about how things might be problems. While FDR has helped me a lot, they say for rumination and pure-ocd type treatments that only a CBT therapist using ERP has great success in treating OCD. So I hope to feel more confident with myself and to stop self-bullying and be more confident in my job search. 

 
 

They are not all wrong about empathy.  It's technically difficult to have empathy for people that are unlike you.  So they feel guilty about their lack of merit putting them in a better position than billions of other mediocre people.  But they will never make any sacrifices out of their own lives to help anyone else.  So too would all of those people that they empathize with never do the same for them if the situation was reversed.  Talk is cheap.  This is why people that play the empathy card are not concerned about sticking a fork in a cow's back.  It's not others' suffering they care about.  It's that their self-classification reflects anything they say about how others in their own class should be treated back to themselves as a benefit.  That bullshit has discoverable limits.  If you ask them whether the United States should fund health care for everyone on Earth that can't afford it they will suddenly be less enthusiastic because the 1% can't cover that many.  They will need to contribute.  So some excuse will be made.  Even if we can't predict the exact excuse, we can generally predict that one will be forthcoming for every instance when it is in their power to change someone else's life.  Empathy politics is really just a strategy of surreptitious self-promotion.  It's no good if it costs you more than you receive.

 

If they accuse you of being dumb or uneducated, that is easy.  Issue the following challenge to them: a contest wherein you all take an IQ test or any test of their choice that they think measures that, then post public videos on YouTube showing your score certificates and stating your full names, then send the video links to all family, friends, co-workers and employers.  Regardless of how you might guess at the result, they will completely wimp out, at which point you can put them in their place.  Call them out on pre-emptively wimping out with blank slate to cover for themselves.  It's a rhetorical challenge.  People that fart big never have the shit to back it up.  That is precisely why they fart big.  People that have proof begin with proof, not with bluster.  These people are little more than blustering trash talkers that need to be stomped down a notch or two.  In a case like this humiliation is the kind of persuasion that is needed.  There's Bryan Caplan's study, sure, but it's a lot more crushing to reveal how afraid of being tested the person you are talking to is.

 

There were discussions on the LvMI forums about getting work as an economist.
 

http://archive.freecapitalists.org/forums/t/22075.aspx

Interesting. I didn't think about approaching it like that and seeing where the limits of empathy go. My girlfriend said one of their complaints with me is that I'm argumentative, so I don't want to be too coarse in upping the ante of rhetorical argument. 

What's the Bryan Caplan study? "The Myth of the Rational Voter?"

I'm worried that her dad might take me up on that offer and kick my ass since he supposedly has an extremely high IQ. His friend joked about how he could join mensa if he wanted. When I was a kid (16ish) I scored a 136, but recently when I did the all visual one that's supposed to be accurate I scored a 115 and a 110 when I took it twice. (Maybe getting shitfaced drunk a few times and the increase in drinking/sex since my early 20s has made me a lot dumber then I realized) So I feel like even if I make a great argument, I'll still be seen as the guy from non-college graduate parents who is making their daughter hold "dumber" beliefs. 

Thank you for the economics link.

I've been trying to apply for business / financial analyst jobs in banking and the private sector, but I've only gotten one interview. ( Failed it ) I have 6 years of work experience in lower level jobs and I'm still getting nothing. My "worldly philosopher" major is bullshit, especially when SJW types with bullshit degrees leap frog over me to get HR jobs at tech companies and in banking/marketing. I've even tried to separate myself by starting my own website and getting a portfolio going, but my resolve is grinding down by the day as I work my shitty retail job for minimum wage just trying to stay a float.  

[A4E]

 

After reading your post I finally went through with contacting a CBT therapist in my area to work out some things. I'm worried about how seeking therapy will look in any background checks for jobs I've been applying for, but I need to be more solution oriented like you said and quit worrying about how things might be problems. While FDR has helped me a lot, they say for rumination and pure-ocd type treatments that only a CBT therapist using ERP has great success in treating OCD. So I hope to feel more confident with myself and to stop self-bullying and be more confident in my job search

Awesome. This paragraph made me happy.

 

If you had not already, you can consider multivitamin supplements, and simple but effective exercises, like burpees. I know that most of the health and mind problems I had before, originated from within.

 

From everything I have seen of people drinking a lot of alcohol, it certainly seems to make a brain dumber. I believe young people trust that their society would not allow anything particularly dangerous to be consumed by people, so isn't it ironic that it is rated as the most dangerous drug. And one of the least dangerous natural drugs is of course banned completely.

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

Going to contradict A4E here. Scrap the multivitamin and read this instead:

 

https://blog.bulletproof.com/optimize-your-supplements/

 

I also recommend checking out TRE therapy. It will be like nothing you've seen before.

[meetjoeblack]

Kill them with kindness. A good example of "dog eats dog" is CBC broadcaster Jion Ghomeshi, the man who was accused of multiple accounts of sexual assault. The man was a classic lefitst that panders to female victimhood and propaganda. Meanwhile, he is banging around with a bunch of women, he is pushing 50, and surprise, women got angry. He is banging women in their twenties, middle age women who have hit the wall then rage, collude, make up false accusations, kept seeing him, and feminists freaked out going nuts. He was aquitted of said charges since the women lied (suprise) and the stories sounded made up. The accusers than paraded out front of the courts like they were accepting a nobel peace prize or some award. He kissed up to the leftist nonsense approval seeking and got burned. Justin Trudeau the Priminister has half his cabinet of women (regardless of the best candidates possible). He then nudges a woman by accident and she was "traumatized" by Justin "The Rock" Trudeau elbow dropping her from the top ropes like "The Macho Man" Randy Savage lol

 

They kiss up to the leftist 'madness' and then, they get burned. Dog eats dog. Kill them with kindness. Offer reason, evidence and logic to debate. Play devils advocate. Don't go full potato and argue in their home.

[A4E]

Going to contradict A4E here. Scrap the multivitamin and read this instead:

 

https://blog.bulletproof.com/optimize-your-supplements/

 

40 pills a day!?? I feel like an amateur supplementer now. I'm on maybe 10 a week.

 

Did you write that blog? Thanks for the link. Looks very informative and groovy!

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

40 pills a day!?? I feel like an amateur supplementer now. I'm on maybe 10 a week.

 

Did you write that blog? Thanks for the link. Looks very informative and groovy!

 

Nope, Dave Asprey did. He's the guy who has come up with the Bulletproof Diet, Bulletproof Coffee, and is a big-whig in the biohacking community. The guy rocks.

[sicrobb0]

Californiacoaster,

            I truly empathize with your situation. The honest to god truth, is really encourage your GF to talk with her parents about letting her live her life. a good way to talk about this is to simply ask (her parents) Do you believe you raised me to be a smart and loving girl? Do you believe I have the ability to make the decisions of my own life? (they will probably say no, she can easily counter with, well what could you have done to provide me with the steps I need to do these?) these are loaded questions, but these questions would be some to allow your GF room to move from the emotional trap that her parents are putting her in. Personally, I would sit your GF down and ask her rhetorical questions. Questions that are deep and emotionally enhancing. secondly, this is your GF's life and time in life to determine the person she wants to be and wants to live like. Her parents only laid the foundation, now its time for her to build the house. She needs to let them know that she loves them and thanks them for all that she has become, but she needs to make her own decisions and she needs to make her mistakes. personally, you also need to determine whether she is worth fighting for. I know this from personal experience, my wife and I have had a long and hard road to walk. but for me she was worth it, I knew I loved her from the first 2 weeks we dated. things get difficult i9n a relationship already. bringing her parents drama into it as well makes things harder, I am sure your GF loves her parents, but she is being stressed out from them over you or at least that's the way you perceive it, She absolutely needs to let them know that she will make her own decisions and that if they love her they will allow her to also make her own mistakes.

[Flip]

Would her relationship with her parents improve if they just decided to agree to disagree and didn't talk politics? In my experience, that can work in terms of preserving an acceptable level of familial harmony.

[themortalgod]

Reading through this thread, I'm a little late to the game but was wondering, where does your girlfriend stand on this greater political spectrum. This has mostly be characterized as you vs her parents where they seem to be swaying her more. Is she also right leaning like you? If so why is she able to be swayed by baseless reasoning such as "texas will ruin your life", "you won't be able to get health insurance in texas", etc? Aren't those things that can be easily and objectively refuted with some research?

I'm just curious why your girlfriend wasn't rejecting these poor arguments? Ultimately, in my opinion, this has nothing to do with your relationship with her parents and everything to do with you relationship with her.