Step mother boundaries and honesty with children

[FelixandFenna]

The situation:

Me and my fiance were with the babysitter and my soon to be 8 yr old step son whom I've know since he was 5. He was talking to the sitter and saying Santa wasn't real and that it was bullcrap and then the boy asks me, Is Santa real? I asked the boy if he believed in Santa, he replied "No". I said well, no, I don't think Santa is real but you can believe whatever you want to believe. A lot of people believe in Santa but if you don't believe it's ok. Christmas isn't really about Santa or even getting presents anyway. It's about sharing Love, kindness and generosity. It's about spending time with people you love and spreading Christmas spirit which is to spread love and generosity, especially to people who are less fortunate then you. So, it really doesn't matter if you believe in Santa or not, what is important is having Christmas spirit and believing in that. His dad, me, the sitter, and the boy then joked about ways that he could test if Santa was really real or not. For example, asking for crazy gifts and seeing if he would get them.

 

A few weeks later, his mom called me very upset and said that her son told her that he doesn't believe in Santa because I told him Santa isn't real.... She asked me if it was true that I told him Santa wasn't real and of course I said yes I did, but he already didn't believe anymore. She got extremely upset and started yelling, asking how I could ruin Christmas for an 8 yr old like that. I tried to better explain the situation and told her that I didn't implant this doubt in his mind but she got even more hysterical and angry. She started saying she can't believe that I don't understand what I did wrong. I then told her thay I do realize and apologized. I said I realized I made a mistake and that I shouldn't have been the one to tell the boy about Santa because that's something his mom should have talked to him about but she only continued to insult and attack me. She accused me of not being smart enough to have the judgment of what not to say to a small child and when I tried to explain that I didnt think she really understood the situation, she again, became even more upset. I told her, I never said Santa wasn't real in the years before because he believed in Santa.

 

I wouldn't want to ruin that for a kid who believes but the boy is 8 and hes very smart for an 8 yr old. He already knows that its make believe. I wasn't trying to rob him of the magic of Christmas, (as the mom puts it) I was only trying to tell the boy that even if he doesn't believe that Santa is real anymore, that it doesn't mean there is any less magic and joy in Christmas. I realize that it wasn't my place and that as a step mom I should have been more sensitive to this boundary but the more I apologized, the more ridiculous her statements about me became.

 

She accused me of trying to take her place as his mother which is not in anyway something I ever want. I want my own children and while I love this boy, he already has a mother. When I tried to defend myself against comments like these she would just lose it and become unnecessarily mean. She told me she has no respect for me and she also mentioned that just because I was pregnant for 5 months, it doesn't make me a mother, I just had my miscarriage 3 weeks ago...

This comment, by the way, was the only time she has spoken to me about my miscarriage. Even when I was in the hospital her boyfriend and son came to visit me but she didn't. She never asked if I was ok or offered any condolences. All of this took place before this santa argument when we were supposedly getting along.

 

I even held my tounge at the miscarriage gouge and told her no matter how much she insults me, I love the boy and I still hope the best for her, I just don't want to talk to her anymore. She replied saying that she's just being honest like I apparently have to be with her son.

 

I get why she is mad, I do... but I have apologized and said I would work on boundaries but I also sincerely don't believe she can just blame me for destroying Christmas for the boy. I do admit that I thought being open and honest with the boy was a way of respecting him as an individual but maybe I was just wrong and should let him just be a kid. Please tell me what you think! How do I move forward from this disaster? The more I seem to apologize, the harsher her statements seem to become. I need to be able to get along with this woman and im trying really hard not to react to her insults with negativity but its hard. I'm worried that maybe the mom is right and that the boy was looking to me for validation about santa though that's really not how it felt at the time.

 

Some background info:

I'm am about 11 yrs younger then her and she already has a high paying career and I am still a med student at 27 yrs old. I met my fiance when him and his ex had already been separated for a year and a half. She already had a boyfriend and had moved on just a month after their split. Naturally, I think she already looks down on me because I'm younger but I have always tried to be kind and have asked her to tell me when she feels I have overstepped boundaries. Somehow I feel she has pre-existing anger towards me and she will find something to hate about me no matter what...

Please give me your perspectives.

[neeeel]

I dont see how you can be any sort of honest or good for your stepson if , every time you tell the truth and the mom doesnt like it, she blows up. Are you willing to accept lying to your stepson, dodging questions from him, saying things that the mom wants you to say, stepping on eggshells for fear of her reaction? Sounds like a horrible way to live.

[thecurrentyear]

Just let her be angry and move on. Don't talk to her ever, if you can help it. If she tries to talk to you, shut her down (by avoiding/not answering) until she gets the message. That's the only way to de-escalate a crazy person: over time proving that you will not engage. I'm sorry your stepson has such a horrible mother. Just do what you can on your end to act with integrity and rationality and disconnect the heartstrings that connect to her through him as much as you possibly can. She will pull every trick in the book. If your fiancé is worth all this trouble, you will figure it out. Just whatever you do, don't engage with her.

[villagewisdom]

Sorry for your loss. I can't imagine that pain. There is so much there to process. The grief is no less than any other loss of a loved one. Do you have support? If not, I strongly urge you to get that before anything else. 

 

I'm sorry for the difficulty with the mom. Her disregard for your pain is the most concerning part of your post. It makes for a difficult road ahead for you. It sounds overwhelming to me. You seem very smart, honest and informed and are likely up to the challenge you have chosen. But OMG.   

 

I don't know this woman or you but will offer my insight based on the information you presented. I'm going to approach this from the perspective of you wanting to have a mutually respectful relationship with her -- which will include a willingness to defer to her preferences in the raising of her son. That understanding will offer you a great perspective as you continue to develop your own ideas of who you will be as a parent. 

 

Before addressing that, this is where I would start to try and heal the breach. I would offer my hand in friendship. I would meet with her. I would do my best to let her rave until she has emptied her cache of emotions without responding. Let her go on as long as she feels she needs to. Offer your support for her feelings only. No judgment of her feelings. No defense of your position. This is what women used to do for each other as a matter of course. We acknowledged feelings without judgment, allowed them to flow freely until they are spent. In order for you to be able to do this without reflexively defending your honor, you will need to be able to call on your own sense of value and knowledge of who you are as a person. That frees you to understand that her spewing of emotions and verbal attacks do not reflect who you are. They reflect who she is in that moment. Keep in mind that it does not reflect who she is in every moment. 

 

Once the emotion is spent, you can have a conversation. This would be better accomplished by a close female friend, but I have my doubts as to the availability of such a person in her circle who possesses the skills to help. I am assuming you are willing to do whatever it takes to make this work. As Stef has presented many times, relationships with single mothers -- and single fathers, come with lots of challenges. 

 

While I do not support verbal abuse, I am fully aware of how uneducated women are about their emotions and how to work with them. In general, women work against emotions, trying to stuff them down, and then they explode when the pressure limit is reached. I am fully aware of how deficient the structure for a circle of feminine support is lacking in the lives of women. You say she has an established career. This emphasizes to me that her emotional outlets are restricted. 

 

The kind of emotional support I am attempting to present here is missing in the lives of nearly all women today. They look for it in their men and destroy their relationships because of it. They try to force society to provide it and support socialism in the process. I work everyday to try and bring this knowledge back to the hearts of women today. We women need each other. We need to study and understand what it means to be a woman that is full of emotion all the time. Women cannot ignore emotions, push them inside, and pretend that they can develop reason to overcome this basic nature. It's not going to happen. For women, reason is only available after the emotional charge is released. Ideally, emotions flow freely and "a bomb" needing release is never created. 

 

In the end, the conversation you will want to have with her is to find out what her plans are as a parent and perhaps help her meet her goals. Of course, that depends on what those goals are. Some may be very contrary to your own. That presents a different set of challenges. 

 

These are all my opinions of course. I hope there is some tidbit in there for you. I personally would be emotionally unable to address this woman and her issues while grieving the loss of a child. Again, my condolences and let me know if YOU need any support. 

[Copper_Heart]

Give your stepson liberty and he will respect you. This is important. As far as I get it you have to tolerate this woman every other week or so. She is incredibly possessive and narcissistic. My bet is that she hopped that your fiance would suffer with her and seeing him with a good woman(from how you treat your step son) is breaking her world.

 

Talk with your fiance, you need to find a way to defend your self from his ex. She is not something that you **need** to deal with anyway. Time to set your boundaries, not your fiance's, not your stepson's, yours.

 

P.S. My condolences about your miscarriage. Hope you stay in good health.

[FelixandFenna]

Thank you so much for your comments! So no one thinks that me telling an 8 yr old that Santa isn't real, is an awful thing?

I have so many questions about what exactly is my right to do in this situation as a step mother. Do I have the right to tell the boy about beliefs that contradict his mother? His mom constantly reminds me that the boy is her and my France's son, not mine and that I need to keep my opinions to myself. The thing is, I hardly ever express my opinions as truth. For example, when asked about presidential candidates, I give good and bad aspects to both candidates and let the boy decide. I try to be fair and neutral but most importantly, honest. Despite this, I have been banned from speaking about religion, morals and death because the mom feels the son is too young for those topics and that he should only have her opinion on those matters. The thing is, I don't know how this works. Do I have any right to object to this? I hate having to lie and avoid conversations. Perhaps I will post a more thorough question about what is morally correct to do in the step parent situation. Thank you so much for you replies.

[villagewisdom]

My advice is call the show. There is so much in the sentences that you have shared so far that are beyond the scope of finding useful information on this forum. 

 

This is about the child, not whether you are right or wrong or entitled to "rights." Again, my opinion, but your "rights" are not relevant. 

[dsayers]

I am so sorry to hear of your miscarriage! I was on track for having a child not long ago and I can totally empathize with the devastation that must've brought! For this woman to use it as a weapon against you? Reprehensible! Thank you for having the courage to share all of this, as well as the love for the child to try and do what's right by him. I think it's awful that this boy has a mother that thinks that hostility and attack are valid forms of conflict resolution. It doesn't sound like she was listening at all and was just out for blood. Such people are so very dangerous.

 

I said well, no, I don't think Santa is real but you can believe whatever you want to believe.

I think encouraging a fresh mind to believe whatever they want is unhealthy and tantamount to fostering intellectual sloth. The ability to differentiate fact from fiction is paramount to our survival. If you meant to communicate to him that he can make believe whatever he wants for the sake of fun, that this distinction is very important. In the adult world, many people think belief is a valid tool for determining what is true and therefore could try and tempt him to do the same. Does that make sense?

 

She accused me of trying to take her place as his mother which is not in anyway something I ever want.

This to me reads as if what she's actually saying is that she understands that she cannot compete with you, so rather than upping her human capital in order to better do so, she's just going to try and tear you down because it's easier. She carried the boy, should've breast fed the boy, and had a head start on bonding with you. Never in a million years should anybody be able to outcompete her for her son's devotion or loyalty... unless she's a shitty mother. I'm glad that it sounds like you are sturdy enough to not let such things sway you. Though I can certainly understand how the very accusation could be upsetting.

 

As such, I would like to challenge you further. You paint a very ugly picture of this woman while appearing to not be doing so with the intention of besmirching her reputation. Assuming your portrayal is accurate, this says something about the boy's father--the man that chose that woman not only as a life partner, but as the mother of his child. A man that you are attracted to to the point of being engaged to. Was he the father of the fetus you miscarried? I don't recall reading that.

 

Anyways, my question is: Why did he choose her? What has he done since then to improve himself so that he would be immune to choosing such a person and/or be equipped to do better by his son than he did in choosing his mother? Were these questions that you addressed before deciding to move forward with him in your own relationship? Bottom line: What value do you and him place on self-knowledge? The boy in the story is in a very precarious position. He's going to need a lot of love and rationality to overcome the mistakes his parents made in the past. And probably the ongoing abuse of his mother. I don't know how long they were together, but finding another one month after splitting with a co-parent seems reckless in the extreme. Especially for a woman you say already had her own career. Which probably damaged her connection to the child at her behest.

 

I hope you're handling all of this well. It's such a mess I don't think I would be tempted to get involved at all. He'd have to be one hell of a guy, which would indicate one hell of an effort to improve after the huge mistake of having a child with such a woman.

 

[EDIT]

Almost forgot to add that no, I don't think a person is ever in the wrong for speaking the truth. Perhaps there are ways of doing so, such as age-appropriateness. However, the mother/parents made this mistake when they tried to portray Santa as real. If she needs it that badly, chances are it was done for the sake of manipulating the boy into "behaving" instead of setting a good example and negotiating with him to foster such desired outcomes in a healthy, organic fashion.

[Copper_Heart]

Thank you so much for your comments! So no one thinks that me telling an 8 yr old that Santa isn't real, is an awful thing?

I have so many questions about what exactly is my right to do in this situation as a step mother. Do I have the right to tell the boy about beliefs that contradict his mother? His mom constantly reminds me that the boy is her and my France's son, not mine and that I need to keep my opinions to myself. The thing is, I hardly ever express my opinions as truth. For example, when asked about presidential candidates, I give good and bad aspects to both candidates and let the boy decide. I try to be fair and neutral but most importantly, honest. Despite this, I have been banned from speaking about religion, morals and death because the mom feels the son is too young for those topics and that he should only have her opinion on those matters. The thing is, I don't know how this works. Do I have any right to object to this? I hate having to lie and avoid conversations. Perhaps I will post a more thorough question about what is morally correct to do in the step parent situation. Thank you so much for you replies.

 

 

I think your best bet is Parent effectiveness Training book. I think this is an essential book for understanding what is really important to teach a kid. Instead of giving him a fish(a truth) give him beautiful tools of self-introspection and self-awareness it will help him get the truth by himself(teach him how to fish). There is nothing to her actions than desire to assert her narcissistic ideal of her self:

 

Imagine her horror if her son will reject her as mother and will accept YOU as such instead. This is going to DESTROY her. This is so brutal for such narcissistic types.

 

Mothers have an effect on their sons similar to Ericson's hypnosis. 'Member the kid selling you out(or her inventing that)? Mother has a profound effect on him and kid will not be an angel. But, the only way to help him is to show no manipulation at all(Parent effectiveness Training is the key in that and understanding what it means). When kid sees the difference, let him choose.

[Mister Mister]

Thank you so much for your comments! So no one thinks that me telling an 8 yr old that Santa isn't real, is an awful thing?

I have so many questions about what exactly is my right to do in this situation as a step mother. Do I have the right to tell the boy about beliefs that contradict his mother? His mom constantly reminds me that the boy is her and my France's son, not mine and that I need to keep my opinions to myself. The thing is, I hardly ever express my opinions as truth. For example, when asked about presidential candidates, I give good and bad aspects to both candidates and let the boy decide. I try to be fair and neutral but most importantly, honest. Despite this, I have been banned from speaking about religion, morals and death because the mom feels the son is too young for those topics and that he should only have her opinion on those matters. The thing is, I don't know how this works. Do I have any right to object to this? I hate having to lie and avoid conversations. Perhaps I will post a more thorough question about what is morally correct to do in the step parent situation. Thank you so much for you replies.

 

  Hey I'm really sorry for your situation.  It sounds really awful, both the miscarriage, and then the evil stepmother situation.  However I had to chuckle to myself at your question.  Telling a child the truth can never be an "awful" thing, especially about something so benign.  It's really weird, I'm coming to understand how important this is to people.  It's like a test-run at mass delusion; I find it really creepy honestly when other adults are talking about Santa around kids, there's this smug satisfaction that we're "in on it".  Then when kids find out there's no Santa, I think their anger and humiliation at having been is tempered by the fact that now they get to be part of the Illuminati that is entrusted with keeping the other kids from figuring out the ruse.  It's really a kind of small corruption.  Part of me, while writing this, feels maybe I'm making too much out of it, but then why is this such a big deal to people???

 

  So you are married to a man who used to be married to this woman?  You seem like a genuinely thoughtful, caring, empathetic, good person.  So how did the same man end up marrying both you and this crazy, cruel, manipulative bitch?  Also I'm curious, what is the kid like?

[Rventurelli]

The situation:

Me and my fiance were with the babysitter and my soon to be 8 yr old step son whom I've know since he was 5. He was talking to the sitter and saying Santa wasn't real and that it was bullcrap and then the boy asks me, Is Santa real? I asked the boy if he believed in Santa, he replied "No". I said well, no, I don't think Santa is real but you can believe whatever you want to believe. A lot of people believe in Santa but if you don't believe it's ok. Christmas isn't really about Santa or even getting presents anyway. It's about sharing Love, kindness and generosity. It's about spending time with people you love and spreading Christmas spirit which is to spread love and generosity, especially to people who are less fortunate then you. So, it really doesn't matter if you believe in Santa or not, what is important is having Christmas spirit and believing in that. His dad, me, the sitter, and the boy then joked about ways that he could test if Santa was really real or not. For example, asking for crazy gifts and seeing if he would get them.

 

A few weeks later, his mom called me very upset and said that her son told her that he doesn't believe in Santa because I told him Santa isn't real.... She asked me if it was true that I told him Santa wasn't real and of course I said yes I did, but he already didn't believe anymore. She got extremely upset and started yelling, asking how I could ruin Christmas for an 8 yr old like that. I tried to better explain the situation and told her that I didn't implant this doubt in his mind but she got even more hysterical and angry. She started saying she can't believe that I don't understand what I did wrong. I then told her thay I do realize and apologized. I said I realized I made a mistake and that I shouldn't have been the one to tell the boy about Santa because that's something his mom should have talked to him about but she only continued to insult and attack me. She accused me of not being smart enough to have the judgment of what not to say to a small child and when I tried to explain that I didnt think she really understood the situation, she again, became even more upset. I told her, I never said Santa wasn't real in the years before because he believed in Santa.

 

I wouldn't want to ruin that for a kid who believes but the boy is 8 and hes very smart for an 8 yr old. He already knows that its make believe. I wasn't trying to rob him of the magic of Christmas, (as the mom puts it) I was only trying to tell the boy that even if he doesn't believe that Santa is real anymore, that it doesn't mean there is any less magic and joy in Christmas. I realize that it wasn't my place and that as a step mom I should have been more sensitive to this boundary but the more I apologized, the more ridiculous her statements about me became.

 

She accused me of trying to take her place as his mother which is not in anyway something I ever want. I want my own children and while I love this boy, he already has a mother. When I tried to defend myself against comments like these she would just lose it and become unnecessarily mean. She told me she has no respect for me and she also mentioned that just because I was pregnant for 5 months, it doesn't make me a mother, I just had my miscarriage 3 weeks ago...

This comment, by the way, was the only time she has spoken to me about my miscarriage. Even when I was in the hospital her boyfriend and son came to visit me but she didn't. She never asked if I was ok or offered any condolences. All of this took place before this santa argument when we were supposedly getting along.

 

I even held my tounge at the miscarriage gouge and told her no matter how much she insults me, I love the boy and I still hope the best for her, I just don't want to talk to her anymore. She replied saying that she's just being honest like I apparently have to be with her son.

 

I get why she is mad, I do... but I have apologized and said I would work on boundaries but I also sincerely don't believe she can just blame me for destroying Christmas for the boy. I do admit that I thought being open and honest with the boy was a way of respecting him as an individual but maybe I was just wrong and should let him just be a kid. Please tell me what you think! How do I move forward from this disaster? The more I seem to apologize, the harsher her statements seem to become. I need to be able to get along with this woman and im trying really hard not to react to her insults with negativity but its hard. I'm worried that maybe the mom is right and that the boy was looking to me for validation about santa though that's really not how it felt at the time.

 

Some background info:

I'm am about 11 yrs younger then her and she already has a high paying career and I am still a med student at 27 yrs old. I met my fiance when him and his ex had already been separated for a year and a half. She already had a boyfriend and had moved on just a month after their split. Naturally, I think she already looks down on me because I'm younger but I have always tried to be kind and have asked her to tell me when she feels I have overstepped boundaries. Somehow I feel she has pre-existing anger towards me and she will find something to hate about me no matter what...

Please give me your perspectives.

In my humble opinion you did the correct thing in letting the boy reach his own conclusion (Santa is not real) and then explain to him what the correct meaning of Christmas is, so he does not resent the date as just non-sense. You could have even go a step further and say that Santa is a figure that represents the "Christmas spirit", as theoretically he would give presents to well-behaved kids, therefore encouraging kindness and good behaviour. You could do that while at the same time using an indirect language without absolutes like "I believe Santa might just be a figure", that way you let him with food for thought instead of "ruining" the kids imagination.

 

You should not have apologized! Especially for something you did not do wrong. This puts you in the defensive and is a sign of weakness, which instinctively attracts aggressiveness, as it is the best time to attack a prey. Be a "rat", whenever backed into a corner, you stand up and attack!

 

Just as an example of personal experience: it was my former mother-in-law birthday, she is overall a good woman and I have nothing but respect for her, she is, however, a gossiper type. She made a very mild criticism of the mother of a friend of two of her children (she had my ex-wife the oldest, a son and a younger daughter, all of them over 25 at the time). They yelled at her, at her birthday, with the family there in a restaurant! She apologized and apologized and apologized. The more she did it, the more vicious, loud and irrational both of them reacted, and those were her peaceful offspring, not my ex-wife that was extremely aggressive.

 

That was embarrassing and I could not take it. I had an ACE score of 7 growing up and it annoys me immensely when I see people taking for granted having caring, responsible and virtuous loving parents and treating them like crap -- I texted her saying "Stop apologizing or they will keep escalating, defend yourself and they will stop!!!" all caps and poked her saying she got a text message. She looked at it and stopped apologizing. In a matter of seconds they stopped acting viciously.

 

Instead of trying to be friendly with the ex of your man, ignore her as much as possible. She demonstrated that she is not a logical person and that she is the type that guilt trips people. If that was not enough, she sees you as an imminent threat of "stealing" her son. Nothing productive can come of this relationship -- door slam is the best solution. Only communicate with her via E-mail or text if absolutely necessary.

 

The way she behaved about your miscarriage is absolutely reprehensible and evil. Which makes me wonder... What did your fiancee saw in her to begin with? Have you ever had this conversation with him? It is my understanding that this is an essential conversation to have.

[thecurrentyear]

Might I also recommend "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk"

[Jsbrads]

I would recommend a slightly different approach

Kid Is Santa real?

You what do you think?

K No

Y why

K because...

Engage, encourage intellectual exploration...

There are times where it may be better not to state your opinion.

Which president do you like? Would you have answered?

I have thought on this more yet, but I think there is room to leave this up to him without weighing in just yet, he is a bit young to effectively communicate his own thoughts to his mother who is more than likely not a good listener.

 

You should probably speak with your Fiancé about what subjects he believes should be up to just him and the mom. If he wants to tell the kid Santa isn't real, you don't even have to dance around the subject at all.

I think it is great you posted here and I wish you all the best. Keep being great. But some of these topics should get your Fiancé's input far more than ours.

Also, let him deal with her more. He loves you and has no desire to let her sap your happiness. Thank him and tell him how much it means to you when he does.