Gabranth Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Just a bit confused on his video on rights. Why did Stefan use the term "property rights" for much of his career, (even after UPB) if he thought the term "rights" was invalid? If he doesnt agree with the word, what would he call the concept of property rights, if not by that name than by what?
Gabranth Posted December 9, 2016 Author Posted December 9, 2016 Its kind of hard to talk about certain things without using the concept of rights though. Which is why I think Stef inadvertently used the word many times in his career. Doesnt that mean there is a need for the word and its concept, even if we haven't come up with a satisfactory definition yet? we observed the natural reality of our universe, and we called them universal laws. We observed the natural reality of humans, and we called them universal rights.
Tyler H Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Here's the dictionary definition; a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way. I think that's fairly accurate, perhaps we could replace "moral or legal" with "agreed upon" or "can be universally agreed upon" to improve it. I think the main problem is that right now the legal and moral systems are so screwed up that people claim all sorts of ridiculous rights that can't be philosophically backed up because their premises are incorrect. In a UPB based society I think the word could be revived. Unfortunately the concept is yet another victim to colloquial hijacking. 1
Gabranth Posted December 11, 2016 Author Posted December 11, 2016 Would "possession" work? So people would violate your property possession? Im not sure you can violate possession? Granted it all comes down to theft, murder, rape, assault etc. but why cant we tie all those acts into a bigger arch of universal rule called property rights? The use of the word right not being overly important. I mean we could call it anything. we just need some word to fill in the idea that embodies it. The same way we use law, or rule, principle etc. we all know what a scientific law is, and people universally agree on it, im not sure why the word right cant be the same way. People just arent being properly educated on it. Another thing too, the masses are already familiar with rights. Just seems easier to teach them about property rights rather than UPB. Granted that's just an opinion of course. Cant really be proven either way until we actually teach it to people in mass. <I>"Unfortunately the concept is yet another victim to colloquial hijacking."</I> True but im not sure we should give up words or concepts because they can or have been hijacked. The word morality has been hijacked and used for evil ends, or used incorrectly too, but we dont give up on that. Once the statist system of information is overthrown, the better ideas and use of these words and concepts will come forth.
luxfelix Posted December 11, 2016 Posted December 11, 2016 Maybe it's a chicken-and-egg scenario (word vs. meaning)? Do you want to resuscitate the word, and/or find a new word for the meaning you want to convey? Perhaps providing historical context, in combination with proofs, can help (while acknowledging the common use of the word)?
Tyler H Posted December 12, 2016 Posted December 12, 2016 True but im not sure we should give up words or concepts because they can or have been hijacked. The word morality has been hijacked and used for evil ends, or used incorrectly too, but we dont give up on that. Once the statist system of information is overthrown, the better ideas and use of these words and concepts will come forth. Right, I agree, and I didn't mean to imply we should. Hijacked words like rights, anarchism, capitalism, etc., I think it's important to avoid these terms in any given conversation until they've been defined. I don't want to abandon the concepts to sophists, just remain cognizant that to others these terms have been completely perverted. In a war of ideas we absolutely need to fight back against this sort of newspeak. We can't let them rob us of the words required to fight for freedom.
Magnetic Synthesizer Posted December 17, 2016 Posted December 17, 2016 Stefan has addressed the "property rights" thing many times in our past videos on rights. He thinks the term property rights is an inaccurate term, but it's become so incredibly common, that using anything different to describe "property rights" is simply confusing. What term would be ideal to be used in place of ''property rights''?
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