What alternative solution to MGTOW?

[meetjoeblack]

For a very long time, I have dedicated a lot of time towards self awareness, reason, and evidence. It is astounding the things you come about through self discovery. Along the way, I came across FDR, and I have come to adopt a lot of interesting facts that were in contradiction to many of the things I once believed. I could dispute it but, I digged deeper and I seem some startling truths I am faced with.

 

I have listened to every FDR or Stefan podcast with respect to this topic. I have read countless books (men on strike by helen Smith, The Rational Male, Sperm wars, The selfish Genes, etc). I am taking in my experiences and the experiences of others much wiser then myself. I am alarmed by my experience, by dating, by the lives of those I know destroyed after marriage, guys ruined by the family court systems, men that are in cuckold situations, and court ordered to pay child support in cases where DNA proves infidelity.

 

I admit a bit of fear. I feel like I am being stuck in a lose lose situation. Dating is a example of one of the many problems. Online is a example of serial dating. Bios read "proud single mom" as if this is a badge of honor. It is a cees pool example of carousel 2.0. If by some miracle, a man meets a good woman, what favor does marriage hold given the laws, family court, and the high likelihood she has been riding the carousel until her intuition starts up for babies.

 

Gentlemen, I am scared. I have seen far too many bad situations in my own life dating, in friends or family. I have seen horror stories online and elsewhere. I could use a talking of a alternative lifestyle. I still talk to women, I still approach, and date but, it feels forced at best sometimes. Fully grown women act like preteens in heat. Woman going on thirty acting like she is 17. FDR/Stefan still swears by marriage but, I almost feel like it is a lost cause.

 

[aviet]

I've been thinking about similar topics a lot recently and spoke at length with a fellow traveler in chat. One conclusion that we both came to is pursuing Christian woman is seems a better tact, for reasons which Stefan has covered of late; and particularly 'cultural Christians' over 'theological Christians'. Within this group you will at least find people with family orientation, value commitment and are less given to indulgence and pleasure seeking. If you are looking for the whole package of general themes Stef covers it's going to be very difficult to find someone who cover all the bases. We're not living in an ideal world and have to compromise accordingly.

Another thought I have had is pursuing women who are not particularly active thinkers, may or may not be particularly be intelligent, but have a mothering and commitment instinct. These tend to be given to more traditional gender roles and thus will be more receptive to your philosophical approach to relationships and parenting.

For me, those are the two targets, because a rational, intelligent, beautiful, libertarian-type etc. is unlikely to come along.

Some tips for your dating profile and what to look for:

Religion: Christian or Jewish
Family orientation: strong
Profession: not a teacher
Intent: looking to marry
Wants children: yes
Personality (POF): Animal lover, bookworm, free thinker, intellectual, professional

State your philosophical outlook or the sorts of things you being and are looking for. Will turn away the chaf, but help make you stand out to diamonds in the rough.

Red flags: cleavage, children, blank profiles, princess, diva, fashionista, tattoos, piercings, pink hair, feminist; among many others.

[DaVinci]

Provide so much value to the world and become so incredibly awesome that you attract tons of quality people through the life that you are living.

 

It's also incredibly hard for quality women to find quality guys in world at large. I get the emails on a near daily basis.

 

And you aren't forwarding them to all us of why?

 

Maybe we need a "Dating site" on FDR? 

[meetjoeblack]

Provide so much value to the world and become so incredibly awesome that you attract tons of quality people through the life that you are living.

 

It's also incredibly hard for quality women to find quality guys in world at large. I get the emails on a near daily basis.

 

This is what I am doing at the time being. I am looking to add as much value as humanly possible. I read David Deida's book Way of the Superior man following a book list recommendation by Elliot Hulse. In this book, he speaks of a "hero's journey." Deida goes onto talk about a life path and living at your edge to the extend of giving of your gifts to the world. The rest manifests I take sort of like karma which isn't hocus pocus but rather a cause and effect phenomenon. Despite the journey, it is riddled full of suffering and struggle which I fully embrace. All roads in life lead to death and loss at some point but, there is beauty in that to because it makes it all the more special and precious. I am inspired because of that fact and I am challenged to rise to the occasion that is life.  

[RichardY]

Gentlemen, I am scared. I have seen far too many bad situations in my own life dating, in friends or family. I have seen horror stories online and elsewhere. I could use a talking of a alternative lifestyle. I still talk to women, I still approach, and date but, it feels forced at best sometimes. Fully grown women act like preteens in heat. Woman going on thirty acting like she is 17. FDR/Stefan still swears by marriage but, I almost feel like it is a lost cause.

What country are you living in?

[Wuzzums]

MGTOW is not a solution, it is a symptom.

We need to have less empathy for and pay less attention to whores. The more we subsidize something the more of that something we're gonna get.

[meetjoeblack]

State your philosophical outlook or the sorts of things you being and are looking for. Will turn away the chaf, but help make you stand out to diamonds in the rough.

 

Red flags: cleavage, children, blank profiles, princess, diva, fashionista, tattoos, piercings, pink hair, feminist; among many others.

 

Thanks for the response. I am hopeful since the election is over, Stefan/FDR can return back to gene warfare and genetic ostracism or topics of relations and family life.

 

Last year, I dated this Christian woman I met randomly while I was out. She gave her number and we texted a bit before we eventually met up. She made it evident about wanting a family and doing that kind of stuff which I respect. There were some problems for me.The thing was she told me about going away with "friends." When we met up for drinks, she mentioned "guy friend" who she goes on vacation with. A few more drinks in and baggage came out. I saw quite a few red flags much of which I would have disregarded as a much younger man. I could not given the lessons I have had in life.

 

I have heard the recommendation to date someone traditional, someone that comes from a household divorce free, no children, not promiscuous or a feminist, not into drug use or heavily drinking. This girl wanted a drink every time we were out which I was turned off by. Another girl I dated this past year seemed cool at first but, then, I started picking up on problematic things. She was defensive for no reason. She bought me coffee which I liked since, it meant she wasn't expecting me to just buy her dinner or food. She then was sort of flaky or unresponsive which is a red flag. She text me to come over for a movie one night. I could not due to plans. I went over and we hooked up. All the doors at her house were closed and I found children's toys randomly. Sure enough, she had a kid and I was looking for an out. Oh I got my out. Pics and videos on Instagram came up with different men, guys kissing at her face, and other things that could be described as sly.

 

I went out with a girl I met online. We talked on the phone a fair bit and even texted. When we hung out, I realized I got cat fished or she has pics that are her but, were when she looked a lot better. Like, she had pics from when she was a cheerleader and gymnast. She was a big girl so, a pic of her doing the beam and other gymnastics was definitely false advertising. If this was not enough, she had eaten crackers a fruit in front of me like a animal. She then left the mess she did not eat in a crumpled heap on a coffee table in front of me at which point, I grabbed my coat, and keys before making my exit.

 

I always had better luck approaching girls randomly then I ever did online. I feel vain and arrogant with taking selfies but, you sort of have to for online. When approaching, you cannot get cat fished, people cannot photoshop themselves to look better, and if someone fails to offer or add value, you don't proceed forward. I guess what I am saying is that,

 

I know I will miss this freedom from responsibility right now without children or a wife but, my blasted genes crave to procreate but, as a logical and rational self aware male, I know it is chaotic if I get wrong.

[meetjoeblack]

What country are you living in?

 

America. I found that I met awesomeness when I explored on a road trip or I traveled elsewhere. There is nothing I wouldn't give for my dreams. The most precious gift I have to give is my time so, I am really dedicating it to the things I love and living my life out that way.

 

I saw a Stefan video on PUA. I regret to admit that, after spending most of my teens alone, I had one gf in my teens. I was liked by girls in high school and college but, I just never dated any of those people. After years of this, I resorted to pickup, and approaching lots. I dated more but there was lots of rejection and flakes. I realized more and more just how hard it is to meet a good match. If not for the few good experiences and good women I met in my life, I would not know of such a possibility. For that, I am truly grateful.

 

Quite honestly, I think most men would have given up by now if they had some of the weird experiences I have had with girls which is why I am scared of MGTOW. A male co worker asked me once if I was. I said I know what it is. I like to date so, no. No I am not but, I am getting a bit concerned cause I just see how gross it can be and how awful things can get if it doesn't workout when children are involved following a divorce.

 

I know the Jesus saying about serving two masters. You cannot be committed, truly committed if I am MGTOW or have this sort of stuff in mind so, I have not listened to any sandman or any of that stuff for awhile. While I regret to admit doing pickup and approaching, everything else has failed, everything I was ever told was a lie, and I am forced to accept the reality that is. I either give up or I continue to approach. On my death by when I reflect on my life, I will know I dedicated my life to doing what I love, to taking chances, and doing everything in my power to find that one.

MGTOW is not a solution, it is a symptom.

We need to have less empathy for and pay less attention to whores. The more we subsidize something the more of that something we're gonna get.

 

Japan has the herbivore men. I don't quite get it or understand but, it sounds pretty much like MGTOW. I know what you mean. It is a symptom of a much larger problem. Men that realize they failed in a marriage economically or others that have failed in the dating world checked out for their own self interest. The difference is that, in doing so, you are not doing like Deida suggests, living at your edge, and giving of your gifts whatever they maybe.

 

I met this girl in a coffee shop. She told me she was a student and we got talking about our life plans. She brought up some event and I said, "that sounded like an invite." I took her number but, that was the highlight of everything. It reminded me of the coffee shop scene of the Pitt movie. This was the highlight. We ended up going out but, we had absolutely nothing in common and she was very argumentative. White girl on a date venting about "white privilege." What she meant was "white male privilege." We never hung out again and I didn't even text her but, she still took the drink. It is that sort of shit that pisses me off so, I have learned not to bother in the future.

 

By that, I don't mean give up on dating. I mean, the millennials are about "Netflix and chill." It is $8.99 or $10.99 for HD. I have tried dating older. I notice a lot of baggage. I tried dating younger. Lots of divas. I date middle or late twenties and you would think you were talking to someone in high school. Lots of partying and clubbing. I don't get it.

[meetjoeblack]

Why would we create a dating website for the show? Just because somebody listens to a podcast doesn't mean anything at all.

 

I judge people based on their actions and behavior, not what's in their playlist.

 

It's also mildly amusing to me that after I post something about taking 100% personal responsibility for your romantic life/options you post about me forwarding emails to people and creating a dating website.

 

Why invest time in making a dating profile instead of doing something great in the world.

 

Who cares what people SAY about their outlook - I want to see ACTIONS.

 

I could be mistaken but, I think he is was kidding. The notion that it is easy in the dating world is furthest from the truth. I am hoping the future podcasts go back to this topic now that the election is over.

 

That is something I really want to dedicate my freedom toward; something great in the world. Offer absurd amounts of value. Ideally, I would like to meet someone great before then because I wouldn't be as so trusting afterwards.

[adamNJ]

Provide so much value to the world and become so incredibly awesome that you attract tons of quality people through the life that you are living.

 

It's also incredibly hard for quality women to find quality guys in world at large. I get the emails on a near daily basis.

Sorry for being hard headed but how does one become incredibly awesome? Is there a podcast on this topic?

[Wuzzums]

Japan has the herbivore men. I don't quite get it or understand but, it sounds pretty much like MGTOW. I know what you mean. It is a symptom of a much larger problem. Men that realize they failed in a marriage economically or others that have failed in the dating world checked out for their own self interest. The difference is that, in doing so, you are not doing like Deida suggests, living at your edge, and giving of your gifts whatever they maybe.

 

I met this girl in a coffee shop. She told me she was a student and we got talking about our life plans. She brought up some event and I said, "that sounded like an invite." I took her number but, that was the highlight of everything. It reminded me of the coffee shop scene of the Pitt movie. This was the highlight. We ended up going out but, we had absolutely nothing in common and she was very argumentative. White girl on a date venting about "white privilege." What she meant was "white male privilege." We never hung out again and I didn't even text her but, she still took the drink. It is that sort of shit that pisses me off so, I have learned not to bother in the future.

 

By that, I don't mean give up on dating. I mean, the millennials are about "Netflix and chill." It is $8.99 or $10.99 for HD. I have tried dating older. I notice a lot of baggage. I tried dating younger. Lots of divas. I date middle or late twenties and you would think you were talking to someone in high school. Lots of partying and clubbing. I don't get it.

 

I know what you mean about dating.

Judging by the couples I know there's a sweetspot for success. The successful couples usually begin dating in their early twenties and go to the same university (meaning they'll have the same career path). Sometimes they begin dating from highschool but if they choose different career paths it will most likely result in a dismissal of the relationship. Quality people with whom you can start a family with disappear after the mid twenties because they'll most likely get scooped up by someone else because the demand is so high. I'm 27 and the women of worth that have caught my attention within the same age bracket or older all were very, very married. So younger is the way to go if you want to get a shot.

[DaVinci]

Why would we create a dating website for the show? Just because somebody listens to a podcast doesn't mean anything at all.

 

I judge people based on their actions and behavior, not what's in their playlist.

 

It's also mildly amusing to me that after I post something about taking 100% personal responsibility for your romantic life/options you post about me forwarding emails to people and creating a dating website.

 

I'm not seriously expecting you guys to create a dating website. Though I do find it interesting that you are getting all these e-mails from people who can't find a quality man. I think if I met a woman in real life who said "Yeah, I'm listening to these philosophy podcasts" that would certainly grab my attention.

[RichardY]

Could do the same but with Eastern Europe, not as decadent as the West, kind have got Trump as an example. 

 

Or I guess there's the Sexbot option, maybe one of those Asian Corporations might get some housework upgrades installed, though hopefully they won't burst into flames like the Note and I wouldn't trust their testing practices.

 

Or be awesome, beneficent. Too much work for most, so just virtue signal like crazy.

 

But I don't know, path of least resistance.......

[meetjoeblack]

I know what you mean about dating.

Judging by the couples I know there's a sweetspot for success. The successful couples usually begin dating in their early twenties and go to the same university (meaning they'll have the same career path). Sometimes they begin dating from highschool but if they choose different career paths it will most likely result in a dismissal of the relationship. Quality people with whom you can start a family with disappear after the mid twenties because they'll most likely get scooped up by someone else because the demand is so high. I'm 27 and the women of worth that have caught my attention within the same age bracket or older all were very, very married. So younger is the way to go if you want to get a shot.

 

So, what does that mean for the rest of us? The best couples I met, the women during their youth dedicated to the man they married, and now, they are having kids. For me, they are the template of the ideal relationship, and their woman is the archetype. I know it is not precisely it but, these little tidbits of success, of staying power, loyalty, and commitment are not something I see in the dating world. Yeah, I have known youth is the key. The hard part is that, I am older then you, and what I would give to be 27 again. Granted, I am not much older. A year, I would love to take forward the insight of dating I have now, and give to myself.

 

A woman that likes me complained about marriage. She does not want kids so, this eliminates her from being a prospective partner. I tried online. I have tried pua. I have tried sites. I have had luck but, in very miniscule manners and really, define "luck?" I had dated some really incredible women but, it was usually on a road trip or working abroad. It is usually some situation of serendipity and fortuity. There is some aspect of chance but, at this point, I am feeling more and more like MGTOW is calling. This puts the fear of God in me. It is not that I don't appreciate what insight I took from it. It is that I want a family and despite the foolishness of marriage given the laws now a days, my blasted male mind craves it.

 

The problem, outside online dating, a few new girls I approached, I have no actual prospective partners I could see myself exclusive with at this point. I wish it were much simpler but, there is far too many proud single moms irl or online. IMHO, someone more my age is and has been through carousel 2.0 and if not for biology, I feel like there would be zero interest in settling down. I am sort of at a crossroad. I am thinking of backpacking through Napoli Coast. I want to see the world before my time is up on this planet. I want to share these experiences with someone but, I am constantly bombarded with reference experiences that leave me feeling like I am already MGTOW.

I get the request to create a dating website all the time. Not happening.

 

Over 3500 podcasts on the topic! http://www.fdrpodcasts.com

 

If you have specific questions, let me know and I'd be happy to schedule you for the call in show.

 

My fear would be the fallout since there is a lack of anonymity online and in call. I am very much so into Molyneux, FDR, philosophy, and self awareness. The problem I see with relationships is that, there are so many get out of jail free cards for the girls if they choose to take them, family court, and divorce court backs them. Furthermore, riding the carousel seems to be the flavor of the week until beta male swoops in there with resources. I am not saying I have all that. I am just saying, I would not move a woman into my condo even if she were perfect. We would need to do something together and some sort of arrangement made if things did not workout, my resources would not part me.

 

I am definitely guarded. I thought about calling in. I think it would be very insightful but, I cringe at the idea of myself being dissected online for the world to see and worse, my entire life just unraveled along with all my contradictions. I think I would if anonymity was guaranteed and there was something not quite Bane like but similar to protect me lol

 

Dating sites are encouraging 2 dimensional, fruitless relationships through a screen, not to mention the sort of people who tends use them are quite toxic. There is lying, facades, women who are looking to get free resources and men usually go on to fulfil their sexual desires.

Rational inattentive well-minded people would try to find quality relationships in real life. Come on fellas, we got a chat room already 

 

 

I know what you mean but, that is overly cynical. I must have guessed, you have at least tried online, and it didn't go over well. I have been cat fished before which sucks or the girl is a lot heavier then she showed. I have learned that a bit of weight is usually a ton of weight lol While I agree with most of what you are saying, I have known some people who have met online, and are happily married. It is less niche and a lot more common now a days. The best experiences I have had were from real life interactions but, I got the stones to approach because of pickup which Stefan has openly discussed before in a less than spectacular fashion. My take is that, if you are practicing bullshit, you are what you do. With approaching, I just went up to lots of girls, I got dates, and seen what happened. You can approach a dozen or a couple dozen girls in a night. Maybe less if it goes well. Online, you can sort of just see who you connect with much faster. IMHO and in my experience, the girls date up online, and men are dating down. So, your 7 male is sleeping with 5s and 6s. I know its terrible to reduce looks on a number scale. My point still stands. I have met and found prettier women in life better then most my experiences online with very few exceptions.

I ask again, what alternative solution really is there but to play the game? To tinder or online date, to approach or to just give up and go MGTOW?

[Wuzzums]

So, what does that mean for the rest of us? The best couples I met, the women during their youth dedicated to the man they married, and now, they are having kids. For me, they are the template of the ideal relationship, and their woman is the archetype. I know it is not precisely it but, these little tidbits of success, of staying power, loyalty, and commitment are not something I see in the dating world. Yeah, I have known youth is the key. The hard part is that, I am older then you, and what I would give to be 27 again. Granted, I am not much older. A year, I would love to take forward the insight of dating I have now, and give to myself.

 

A woman that likes me complained about marriage. She does not want kids so, this eliminates her from being a prospective partner. I tried online. I have tried pua. I have tried sites. I have had luck but, in very miniscule manners and really, define "luck?" I had dated some really incredible women but, it was usually on a road trip or working abroad. It is usually some situation of serendipity and fortuity. There is some aspect of chance but, at this point, I am feeling more and more like MGTOW is calling. This puts the fear of God in me. It is not that I don't appreciate what insight I took from it. It is that I want a family and despite the foolishness of marriage given the laws now a days, my blasted male mind craves it.

 

The problem, outside online dating, a few new girls I approached, I have no actual prospective partners I could see myself exclusive with at this point. I wish it were much simpler but, there is far too many proud single moms irl or online. IMHO, someone more my age is and has been through carousel 2.0 and if not for biology, I feel like there would be zero interest in settling down. I am sort of at a crossroad. I am thinking of backpacking through Napoli Coast. I want to see the world before my time is up on this planet. I want to share these experiences with someone but, I am constantly bombarded with reference experiences that leave me feeling like I am already MGTOW.

 

 

A woman that wants to settle down won't go for someone that's on the move. There's always the risk of the prospect suddenly leaving, and women do not like risk.

About the woman that you said doesn't want to get married. She can change her mind. It's not set in stone that she has to get married and immediately start having kids. I have never met a woman that said they didn't want to get married and have kids. It's always "I don't want to get married and have kids at this moment in time". Another alternative could be she's waiting to see if a better mark will come along. Did you ask her if that's the case?

[meetjoeblack]

I found this true for the most part but, the majority of girls I know during the top of sexual market value, chasing the bad boys seems to be the thing. It is carousel 2.0 and I know the aftermath of that from the many podcasts by Stefan. I have also seen the many problems that arise and it does not end well. I meet tons of women that openly say they don't want to get married. A woman said that the other day while eating food with me. Again, I am not sitting by passively. I am approaching tons of women and I am seeing a cesspool of very liberal, pro feminist, adverse to competition, sexually open for the bad boy, perpetrator of poor lifestyle choices, and then victim when it all comes falling down. In my youth or teens even, I was mad at the bad boys for being mean to the little Jenny or Amy or whoever. As I got older, as I dated and approached more, I began to see a pattern. If I never changed, if I never adapted, I would have been divorced, cucked, and just in ruins.

 

I am not sure which case you are referring to since I shared multiple. One girl I went home with and then, we stopped seeing because she had a freakout at the bar. It got weird and then she tried to make me jealous. I immediately went no contact. When I saw her years later, she is presently a single mom, and she was ashamed. Another girl I went out with is again today presently a single mom and a lot heavier. Another girl suggested we hookup but boyfriends are stupid. I at least wanted to get to know her, hangout, and be friends before making this arrangement. She then got weird and we stopped talking. I saw her recently and she was awkward even more so. One girl texted me to come over. I missed her text so I text her and then called her. Nothing. I later found out she got a bf or had a bf. Another girl I met invited me to watch a movie at like 2am. She ended up sucking my dick and I flicked her bean. We weren't exclusive but, I found her being sly online through social media. I did not confront her. I just went no contact. Again, I refuse to be a cuck or to jump on a bomb when she says she is pregnant knowing it could be any guys. Its been a series of these weird experiences and it gives a guy a strange perspective. I have seen a lot of outrageous behavior and a lot of entitlement.

 

I heard it said, be your own soulmate. Love your life. I want to explore, experience, and fun. Love myself. I can travel with someone or for now, do it myself. I am just still keen to find a solution or alternative to mgtow? I am practicing self awareness, I am challenging my own personal fears like approaching a stranger, anxiety, I am reading, learning, and looking to add value. In terms of counter balance and a reciprocal, despite my best efforts, it just has not taken. I am looking to just transcend my being and add enormous amounts of value to the point of just polarizing awesomeness in my life and the lives I come into contact with. Its tough man to stay on the narrow road, be the star of my own movie, and follow my hero's journey.

A woman that wants to settle down won't go for someone that's on the move. There's always the risk of the prospect suddenly leaving, and women do not like risk.

About the woman that you said doesn't want to get married. She can change her mind. It's not set in stone that she has to get married and immediately start having kids. I have never met a woman that said they didn't want to get married and have kids. It's always "I don't want to get married and have kids at this moment in time". Another alternative could be she's waiting to see if a better mark will come along. Did you ask her if that's the case?

[Archimedes]

Your goal is to be in a healthy relationship, possible with kids. Is that right? If this is the case, approaching random women and having hookups is the wrong way to make that happen. You are pursuing an r-selected strategy in hopes of an K-selected outcome. It's true that you have adapted to your environment, but in this case it still doesn't get you the thing you want. That's because your environment is highly r-selected. What I think you have to do is to look at people in healthy relationships for guidance.

 

I think you should take what MGTOWs have to say with a grain of salt. I am listening to what I consider the crème de la crème of MGTOW, which are Stardusk, Colttaine and Alex on Life among others. What all these guys have in common is that they are not in healthy monogamous relationships. Colttaine recently admitted that he sleeps with married women and has no moral problems with it. Alex on Life pursued a relationship with an older crazy woman in another country while still being married. It failed and he suffered emotional pain due to it. Stardusk often goes on about the crazy antics of his “ex-wives” and is currently stuck in an empty void. He also said that there was a time in his past where he didn't spoke to his parents for years.

 

What these guys say makes sense, but sometimes you can see glitches that reveal deeper issues about themselves and their views of the world. For example in a discussion with Colttaine about sleeping with married women, Stardusk said that he doesn't see how women couldn't be 'good mothers' while having an affair on the side. Or he cites cheating forums as evidence for the fact that if you are married you may end up with a wife that has gangbangs while you are providing for her. In his last video he had a discussion about how woman are love-bombing you in the initial dating stages. In this discussion he talks with a womanizer who's last romantic involvement was with a psychopath. They come to the conclusion that all women are displaying similar behaviours of psychopaths (albeit in a lesser form). The best thing you could do is to shut yourself down emotionally and just have casual relationships with women. Alex on Life often says in his videos that all women are operating as sociopaths. These guys often go on about how they are able to see the depressing truth about women and how other men, particular those in LTRs and marriages, are lying to themselves.

 

Compare them to guys like Stefan and Mike. Do you think Stefan and Mike are lying to themselves? Do you think they don't show and share emotions with their wives? Do you think their wives are out sleeping with other men? Do you think they had a string of abusive relationships in their past that made them think all women are sociopaths? Do you think they got where they are by trying to find a diamond in an r-selected environment? Both of them pursued self knowledge, overcame their trauma and provide value for other people. The only way to attract health is to be healthy yourself.

 

I still think MGTOW can be valuable by teaching you what you have to avoid. But it is obvious that they have a need to confirm their biases about women by only focusing on toxic examples. I know it's sounds like a cliche, but I really do think they suffer from unresolved trauma. If you think you have to shut yourself down emotionally to be with other people, then something is very wrong. You are essentially abusing yourself. They have to tell themselves that it's impossible to have a healthy relationship so they can absolves themselves from the mistakes they made that caused them to end up with a history of toxic relationships.

 

In short. Listen to guys who have what you want. You may or may not end up in a healthy relationship that way. If you follow people who have failed to get what you want, than you will also fail to get what you want.  

[meetjoeblack]

Your goal is to be in a healthy relationship, possible with kids. Is that right? If this is the case, approaching random women and having hookups is the wrong way to make that happen. You are pursuing an r-selected strategy in hopes of an K-selected outcome. It's true that you have adapted to your environment, but in this case it still doesn't get you the thing you want. That's because your environment is highly r-selected. What I think you have to do is to look at people in healthy relationships for guidance.

 

I think you should take what MGTOWs have to say with a grain of salt. I am listening to what I consider the crème de la crème of MGTOW, which are Stardusk, Colttaine and Alex on Life among others. What all these guys have in common is that they are not in healthy monogamous relationships. Colttaine recently admitted that he sleeps with married women and has no moral problems with it. Alex on Life pursued a relationship with an older crazy woman in another country while still being married. It failed and he suffered emotional pain due to it. Stardusk often goes on about the crazy antics of his “ex-wives” and is currently stuck in an empty void. He also said that there was a time in his past where he didn't spoke to his parents for years.

 

What these guys say makes sense, but sometimes you can see glitches that reveal deeper issues about themselves and their views of the world. For example in a discussion with Colttaine about sleeping with married women, Stardusk said that he doesn't see how women couldn't be 'good mothers' while having an affair on the side. Or he cites cheating forums as evidence for the fact that if you are married you may end up with a wife that has gangbangs while you are providing for her. In his last video he had a discussion about how woman are love-bombing you in the initial dating stages. In this discussion he talks with a womanizer who's last romantic involvement was with a psychopath. They come to the conclusion that all women are displaying similar behaviours of psychopaths (albeit in a lesser form). The best thing you could do is to shut yourself down emotionally and just have casual relationships with women. Alex on Life often says in his videos that all women are operating as sociopaths. These guys often go on about how they are able to see the depressing truth about women and how other men, particular those in LTRs and marriages, are lying to themselves.

 

Compare them to guys like Stefan and Mike. Do you think Stefan and Mike are lying to themselves? Do you think they don't show and share emotions with their wives? Do you think their wives are out sleeping with other men? Do you think they had a string of abusive relationships in their past that made them think all women are sociopaths? Do you think they got where they are by trying to find a diamond in an r-selected environment? Both of them pursued self knowledge, overcame their trauma and provide value for other people. The only way to attract health is to be healthy yourself.

 

I still think MGTOW can be valuable by teaching you what you have to avoid. But it is obvious that they have a need to confirm their biases about women by only focusing on toxic examples. I know it's sounds like a cliche, but I really do think they suffer from unresolved trauma. If you think you have to shut yourself down emotionally to be with other people, then something is very wrong. You are essentially abusing yourself. They have to tell themselves that it's impossible to have a healthy relationship so they can absolves themselves from the mistakes they made that caused them to end up with a history of toxic relationships.

 

In short. Listen to guys who have what you want. You may or may not end up in a healthy relationship that way. If you follow people who have failed to get what you want, than you will also fail to get what you want.  

 

I acknowledge self interest in a lot of the things people say or do. This goes for Stefan, BBC, MGTOW or anything.

 

I want to thank you for responding. My actually message did not save so, I am writing it again. UGGGGGHHHH!

 

I watched the gene warfare series, about every thing from truth on sex or single moms, women or anything Stefan has put out. I came across him through a Hulse podcast. I have been watching ever since. Through Hulse, he had a guy on his podcast that spoke about approaching women, about dating, and about overcoming personal fears. Thus began this life journey and path. It has not been easy.

 

I would date a few times throughout a year in my teens. I would be liked. I rarely if ever had a gf. I had a lot of strange experiences. After a lot of crummy experiences, I started to approach, and date women. Sex was not the goal. I want to find a K selected woman. In approaching numerous women, the finding is astonishing, that a good portion are R selected, respond to the behavior, will sleep around, cheat, and look for "the bigger better prize." I understand hypergamy. I know it had a prehistoric role in providing security.

 

I have a curiosity with self knowledge, self-awareness, with reading, with exploring my consciousness, and being my strongest self. Despite the desire to find a K selected woman be it approaching or online, I am bombarded by R selected women, sly, sleeping around, serial monogamy, spray and prey, and single moms. It is very frustrating but, a vast majority of women sleeping with all the same guys. What is scary is that, the girls then seek to be K but in my experience, it is cause of fertility, cause of the being spoiled for choice is no longer the case, plummeted sexual market value, and alphas finding better options. I don't want to date or marry that.

 

So, I have did the waiting for a good woman. That did not work. I have did online. Its full of easy women and dating Olympics. I have approached. Again, it is time consuming, lots of single moms, and R selected. I feel the pull of MGTOW and it scares me. I want a family but, I am bombarded by either being around R selected women or single. Between a rock and hard place.

 

How did you meet your wife or gf? I will share my journey with you along the way. I appreciate the time and happy New Year.

[Archimedes]

I can't give you any advice. I'm currently going through childhood issues regarding my mom and don't really think I'm ready for a relationship. However, I do want to use the principles described in Real-Time Relationships once I enter the dating market. Have you read that? Seems like good stuff. 

[meetjoeblack]

Thanks man. I just downloaded that book, Real time relationships, the logic of love.

I can't give you any advice. I'm currently going through childhood issues regarding my mom and don't really think I'm ready for a relationship. However, I do want to use the principles described in Real-Time Relationships once I enter the dating market. Have you read that? Seems like good stuff. 

I am suppose to go on a coffee date later this week. A girl I dated a year ago messaged me randomly. Here, she tells me she has a bf. I don't know why nor do I care. She then, makes a big deal about us going for coffee as a date. I am curious about what Stefan means by, 'vet' a good woman. I can only guess, he means to say, screen hard.

 

I recently ran into a woman that propositioned me for sex. She is young, I would say early or middle 20s. She kept talking about using dildos and vibrators, I can only guess she would think this was suppose to make me want her? Its weird to cause, if a man has a rubber vagina or pocket pussy, he is a weirdo yet, women have a treasure chest of rubber dicks, and its the norm. Female logic? Anyway, so, she then tells me to replace her toy. She got awkward after. I saw her a few years later and I just said hi. She was very short with me. Its funny cause, she propositioned me. Not me propositioning her. I don't get it though?

 

There is a girl I see often at a local café. She is very receptive. I am going to ask her out but, not directly. I am just going to do it casually. Shit or get off the pot. She will come along for the ride or not. Regardless, I will pursue forward.

[Gavitor]

I thought MGTOW was "men going their OWN way". What does this have to do with following youtubers? Last I checked MGTOW isn't a specific set of rules or for lack of a better term a "religion"

 

Not everyone wants the same thing when it comes to a relationship so what works for someone else will most likely not work for you. There's an entire industry that revolves around telling men how to get women, the sad thing is that getting women isn't hard. What you've learned is that getting women doesn't mean you get the right woman (or specifically the woman you want or are looking for).

 

Personally I don't bother with shady women, I'll wait till I meet one that meets my standards (all of which are standards I myself meet, so its not impossible to meet them).

 

I am curious about what Stefan means by, 'vet' a good woman. I can only guess, he means to say, screen hard.

 

Pretty much, at the same time though that doesn't mean you get to behave like the women you condemn. Would you pass the same vetting process you expect her to pass?

 

If you met that "good" woman would she want to date you? Why / why not?

[labmath2]

Stefan's advice is only going to cause his audience to loose the gene wars. While you are busy trying to find a specific woman, the men with lower standards are procreating like crazy and helping set the new standard of what women should expect, possibly even desire. You have to decide what is more important to you, finding that girl/woman, or finding a girl/woman. You have to draw the line somewhere, hopefully you don't end up taking principles over survival (genetucally speaking) because even Stefan has chosen survival over principles by way of the election.

[Archimedes]

Thanks man. I just downloaded that book, Real time relationships, the logic of love.

I am suppose to go on a coffee date later this week. A girl I dated a year ago messaged me randomly. Here, she tells me she has a bf. I don't know why nor do I care. She then, makes a big deal about us going for coffee as a date. I am curious about what Stefan means by, 'vet' a good woman. I can only guess, he means to say, screen hard.

 

I recently ran into a woman that propositioned me for sex. She is young, I would say early or middle 20s. She kept talking about using dildos and vibrators, I can only guess she would think this was suppose to make me want her? Its weird to cause, if a man has a rubber vagina or pocket pussy, he is a weirdo yet, women have a treasure chest of rubber dicks, and its the norm. Female logic? Anyway, so, she then tells me to replace her toy. She got awkward after. I saw her a few years later and I just said hi. She was very short with me. Its funny cause, she propositioned me. Not me propositioning her. I don't get it though?

 

There is a girl I see often at a local café. She is very receptive. I am going to ask her out but, not directly. I am just going to do it casually. Shit or get off the pot. She will come along for the ride or not. Regardless, I will pursue forward.

 

With vetting he means figuring out her values before you get to have sex with her. Spend time talking about what is important with each other and also check if her actions are consistent with what she claims to value. 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't waste my time with a woman that claims to have a boyfriend. Either she is dishonest and wants to test you, or she is honest and not relationship material. I also avoid women who are sexually agressive. Those women usually lack self worth and think they have to offer sex in order to keep you interested. I think the reason why she stopped pursuing you is because you didn't fall for her sexual manipulation. Good for you.  

[meetjoeblack]

Personally I don't bother with shady women, I'll wait till I meet one that meets my standards (all of which are standards I myself meet, so its not impossible to meet them).

 

 

Pretty much, at the same time though that doesn't mean you get to behave like the women you condemn. Would you pass the same vetting process you expect her to pass?

 

If you met that "good" woman would she want to date you? Why / why not?

I removed the first part cause it had zero resemblance what so ever to the post I made.

 

I feel the calling of MGTOW, of going my own way, and through cold approach pickup, I have observed the dating market is a cesspool of R selected, single moms, women that have had abortions, feminists, liberal arts majors, women study majors, prioritize chasing bad boys in their youth, booty call for the investment banker or model, and marriage or kids only comes about when she gets the baby rabies or so has been my experience.

 

If I follow Molyneux, I am sitting here waiting in vain. If I approach, there is that moralizing or some other crap. What alternative is there? I refuse to be a cuck. I refuse to date single moms. I refuse to date R selected women. I wont do it. I rather be single. Some will say, online date. Online is full of women looking for more ego validation and approval. Yes, there are some that want to date, some that are playing dating Olympics, and others seeking something of the best partner they can acquire. This is Darwin. It is not personal. I understand that.

 

I wont be the consolation prize for the woman on the carousel. Conservative women are just so rare now a days. Every woman has a kid, is a "proud single mom" bio online, is at the bar every weekend so, what does a man do? Wait at home for a woman to pick me? No. I go out and approach but I am bombarded by r selected women. I have scares before because of these women. There is self ownership to be had. I have taken responsibility. I have chosen to be smart. I wont be a raw dog warrior. Many girls I stopped seeing because they were dishonest, many are single moms, have really high kill count, and I am grossed out.

 

I think one day I will get the stones to call Stefan. I just know he will call me out on my contradictions lol I know he will moralize about approaching and cold approach. Again, what other alternative is there? Since starting to approach, you see so many women, lots of options but, there is a lot of serial monogamy. everyone swiping, everyone having sex, everyone discontent, and looking for more.

​Social media reads, "basic bitch" pics but the truth? Its photoshop pics, filtered, airbrushed, lulu lemon pants several sizes way too small. Always bum pics. So, show off sex appeal. Show off tits. Then, victimize oneself when dude just wanted to hook up? I had a girl I went coffee. She fucked some guy who was known to sleep around. Tried to tell me about it and I cut her off. She is to this day still mad at me cause I wont be a cuck or listen to it. I saw red flags and I refrained from any further seeing of her. Another girl said bfs are stupid but lets fuck. I wanted to hangout, see coffee first, and have a bit of chemistry. She got awkward and weird around me. Like wanting to get to know her is strange? Its strange that a guy doesn't come running when she wants to take her clothes off?

 

I saw her recently. Again, I just said hi and she was weird about it. I wont in the future but, I kept the text msg in the event she ever came back to say something bad about me.  

[meetjoeblack]

With vetting he means figuring out her values before you get to have sex with her. Spend time talking about what is important with each other and also check if her actions are consistent with what she claims to value. 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't waste my time with a woman that claims to have a boyfriend. Either she is dishonest and wants to test you, or she is honest and not relationship material. I also avoid women who are sexually agressive. Those women usually lack self worth and think they have to offer sex in order to keep you interested. I think the reason why she stopped pursuing you is because you didn't fall for her sexual manipulation. Good for you.  

 

I thought he meant that.

 

I am just put down with what I see when dating. I can guarantee, I have approached more women then Stefan ever has in his life, and the afterthought is pretty alarming.

 

A pretty tall girl offered me sex. Most guys would think, what is the problem? She keeps talking about sex toys. I suspect she was drinking wine by her self and got loose lips (more then one way lol). I called her. She did not pick up. I told her to call me. Fuck, we laughed and talked for ages. Then, she got weird afterwards because I wanted to do coffee, hangout, have some chemistry not just sleep with her. She made this like that is weird? She is a very awkward person I guess.

 

 Another girl I met offered to buy me coffee one day. I took her out for coffee in response. She suggested she liked a guy that was friends. She was being coy but, I just picked up on some not positive vibes. For example, I sense she has mental health, OCD, obsessed with breast implants, social media, male attention and validation. I just kept it as friends. Sure enough, she fucked a guy well know for sleeping around. When she tried to tell me about it, I ended the conversation. The funny thing is that, she hates me just as much as that guy if not more lol

 

These experiences with dating, they do not lend to good experiences despite the desire to add as much value as possible. Despite some terrible life experiences, great loses with so much family, I am always so positive but, not in this area because of my life experiences.

 

Well, with sex, I feel like it has been this party that everyone was invited to but me. I had some girls like me in high school but I was always single. Afterward, many pursued me. I guess I changed a lot. I got bigger. I look more like a man. I am a lot stronger. Also, I am pretty self assured in a lot of ways, work life, and where I want to go. I want a family. I want a wife and children. I want the nuclear family but, I am afraid. With these experiences, with having approached a lot, seen tons of women I dated as single moms, lots of r selected women, I have a lost for words.

 

One guess I ask myself is what I would do if I never got married? What if I lived as though I was already there, already complete, and had a soul mate? One vblog said to be your own soul mate. Where ever you there you are. I am trying to find peace, presence, here and now without that which I desire. I will likely miss my freedom when I am married or have a family.

[meetjoeblack]

Stefan's advice is only going to cause his audience to loose the gene wars. While you are busy trying to find a specific woman, the men with lower standards are procreating like crazy and helping set the new standard of what women should expect, possibly even desire. You have to decide what is more important to you, finding that girl/woman, or finding a girl/woman. You have to draw the line somewhere, hopefully you don't end up taking principles over survival (genetucally speaking) because even Stefan has chosen survival over principles by way of the election.

 

There is a girl I know. We chat. She is cute. She is young. I will ask her out when I see her. What I find is that, a woman must dedicate herself to a man from a young age or otherwise, its usually is someone R selected. I agree that there are a lot of men sleeping with lot of women but lots of women are running out on their husbands, are setting the trend for broken daughter and son issues. When I first started to listen to Stefan, I am blown away at what I am hearing and seeing through cold approach. Lots of "proud single moms" online. Lots of R selected women. Lots of feminists, green hair middle age women, post divorce, and riding the carousel.

 

I know how unhappy men are afterwards. I have seen countless MGTOW videos and I don't want to be that guy. If my dating experience is any indication, I am lucky to be single still, and not road kill. I don't want to sacrifice virtue, values, love, honesty, genuine, loyal. I know its not just about looks. It never was. Still, girls date up with giving sex.

 

I disagree with you. I believe there is a alternative and that, there still is a good woman to date. Someone dedicated to self awareness, self knowledge, and likely, comes from a nuclear family with a father. A widow lost her husband. Not a single mom. Huge difference. He died. He did not just up and leave.

[Mole]

For a very long time, I have dedicated a lot of time towards self awareness, reason, and evidence. It is astounding the things you come about through self discovery. Along the way, I came across FDR, and I have come to adopt a lot of interesting facts that were in contradiction to many of the things I once believed. I could dispute it but, I digged deeper and I seem some startling truths I am faced with.

 

I have listened to every FDR or Stefan podcast with respect to this topic. I have read countless books (men on strike by helen Smith, The Rational Male, Sperm wars, The selfish Genes, etc). I am taking in my experiences and the experiences of others much wiser then myself. I am alarmed by my experience, by dating, by the lives of those I know destroyed after marriage, guys ruined by the family court systems, men that are in cuckold situations, and court ordered to pay child support in cases where DNA proves infidelity.

 

I admit a bit of fear. I feel like I am being stuck in a lose lose situation. Dating is a example of one of the many problems. Online is a example of serial dating. Bios read "proud single mom" as if this is a badge of honor. It is a cees pool example of carousel 2.0. If by some miracle, a man meets a good woman, what favor does marriage hold given the laws, family court, and the high likelihood she has been riding the carousel until her intuition starts up for babies.

 

Gentlemen, I am scared. I have seen far too many bad situations in my own life dating, in friends or family. I have seen horror stories online and elsewhere. I could use a talking of a alternative lifestyle. I still talk to women, I still approach, and date but, it feels forced at best sometimes. Fully grown women act like preteens in heat. Woman going on thirty acting like she is 17. FDR/Stefan still swears by marriage but, I almost feel like it is a lost cause.

I'm sorry to hear about your concerns! I think that MGTOW can only do harm to sex relations. Imagine if people stopped being friends with blacks because of high crime rates and what not. We must remember that the end goal is to become closer, not further apart. Rather than justifying feminism by discriminating against women, it is better to prove them wrong and show them that a healthy relationship is possible. They will be envious of it. If you go MGTOW, good women will be discouraged and feel discriminated against. They will have no incentive to be good. Feminism will inevitably get bigger. It just makes logical sense. Women aren't going to disappear. They are needed for reproduction.

 

The obvious answer to your fears is to find a woman you trust, right? I think if you don't trust a woman with the legalities, how can you trust her with your life and your children? Virtuous women, that is, women you can trust, are attracted to virtuous men so to attract women, you got to work on yourself. Even if you are not actively dating online or whatever, they will come. Why? Because everyone is looking for a relationship but good relationships are not ones you can mould to your liking. All you got to do is be around single women, whether it be through work, study, groups or clubs. I met my girlfriend in a philosophy club. She was the only girl there! But that kind of selective factor made it much easier for me. The majority women are not good, because if they were, you wouldn't be having such a hard time finding them. So ask yourself whether you are putting yourself in a situation where you will meet the lowest common denominators. I think online dating would fit into that. Luckily as a guy, you have more time to spare. Lifelong marriage and having children is such a great and crucial thing, ask yourself how much effort you are willing to go through to get it and ask yourself what would being virtuous mean without it.

 

I really hate the word dating because it implies you can know the future. Never make it your intention to enter a relationship because love is involuntary. I am much younger than you and don't know your situation but I hope you found something useful in my post.

[Jot]

He also said that there was a time in his past where he didn't spoke to his parents for years.

What is wrong with this?

[Archimedes]

What is wrong with this?

 

Nothing, but it implies childhood issues, which I think he has yet to resolve based on what he says from time to time. You know those weird moments when somebody says something that makes you go "Wait, what?"? I've come across too many of those moments after having listening to him for several months. It's hard to make this case on a simple forum post without spending hours to go through all his videos again, which is why I am not going to make it here. It's just my impression of him. 

[meetjoeblack]

I'm sorry to hear about your concerns! I think that MGTOW can only do harm to sex relations. Imagine if people stopped being friends with blacks because of high crime rates and what not. We must remember that the end goal is to become closer, not further apart. Rather than justifying feminism by discriminating against women, it is better to prove them wrong and show them that a healthy relationship is possible. They will be envious of it. If you go MGTOW, good women will be discouraged and feel discriminated against. They will have no incentive to be good. Feminism will inevitably get bigger. It just makes logical sense. Women aren't going to disappear. They are needed for reproduction.

 

The obvious answer to your fears is to find a woman you trust, right? I think if you don't trust a woman with the legalities, how can you trust her with your life and your children? Virtuous women, that is, women you can trust, are attracted to virtuous men so to attract women, you got to work on yourself. Even if you are not actively dating online or whatever, they will come. Why? Because everyone is looking for a relationship but good relationships are not ones you can mould to your liking. All you got to do is be around single women, whether it be through work, study, groups or clubs. I met my girlfriend in a philosophy club. She was the only girl there! But that kind of selective factor made it much easier for me. The majority women are not good, because if they were, you wouldn't be having such a hard time finding them. So ask yourself whether you are putting yourself in a situation where you will meet the lowest common denominators. I think online dating would fit into that. Luckily as a guy, you have more time to spare. Lifelong marriage and having children is such a great and crucial thing, ask yourself how much effort you are willing to go through to get it and ask yourself what would being virtuous mean without it.

 

I really hate the word dating because it implies you can know the future. Never make it your intention to enter a relationship because love is involuntary. I am much younger than you and don't know your situation but I hope you found something useful in my post.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I just cut ties online. I am going out with a girl from there but, afterwards, I am not looking to pursue through this means at all. It is a lot of attention whores, a lot of serial monogamy, and jump offs. Essentially carousel riding for the girls. I remember a girl I knew. She got into fitness and modeling. She was just getting fucked by rich older men. It is this kind of thing I see time and time again. Not to mention, my own experiences that just sour me on the entire situation.

 

A girl I was pursuing a few years ago went on a tangent about "not needing men" and then, she ended up drunk dialing me last summer. Sure enough, it happened when she is in some shitty situation in her life. I didn't get all the specifics. I didn't care to do so. What I know is she was on a stress leave. I presume, she got dumped by the bad boy, and needed a booty call. I never complied. Years before, I would have been there no doubt. This is female nature. This is what I see time and time again. I matched with some girls at work, with girls I have seen around, and there is just a common theme. Its cynical of me but, when you see it time and time again, its hard to acknowledge there being any alternative. i have just seen far too much weirdness.

 

I definitely found something useful in this post. I think I am just frustrated with the cycle I have experienced. The last girl I dated is a single mom. She couldn't even make eye contact with me when she walked past because of the shame she felt but, this is the lifestyle she picked. I know not all are this way but, the problem is that so many are. I guess because I am conservative sexually, I don't just want to mess around, i am turned off by how liberal everything is. So many single moms online. Its not ideal. I always appreciated the experiences I had through real interactions so, I plan on holding out on that. You used the word "virtuous" which is not something I come across too often. I know many "intelligent" or maybe book smart women but, very liberal, sleep around, and make a lot of bad decisions. Its crazy. I was asked to come over to a woman's house to have sex while her husband was out. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[Mole]

Thanks for the response.

 

I just cut ties online. I am going out with a girl from there but, afterwards, I am not looking to pursue through this means at all. It is a lot of attention whores, a lot of serial monogamy, and jump offs. Essentially carousel riding for the girls. I remember a girl I knew. She got into fitness and modeling. She was just getting fucked by rich older men. It is this kind of thing I see time and time again. Not to mention, my own experiences that just sour me on the entire situation.

 

A girl I was pursuing a few years ago went on a tangent about "not needing men" and then, she ended up drunk dialing me last summer. Sure enough, it happened when she is in some shitty situation in her life. I didn't get all the specifics. I didn't care to do so. What I know is she was on a stress leave. I presume, she got dumped by the bad boy, and needed a booty call. I never complied. Years before, I would have been there no doubt. This is female nature. This is what I see time and time again. I matched with some girls at work, with girls I have seen around, and there is just a common theme. Its cynical of me but, when you see it time and time again, its hard to acknowledge there being any alternative. i have just seen far too much weirdness.

 

I definitely found something useful in this post. I think I am just frustrated with the cycle I have experienced. The last girl I dated is a single mom. She couldn't even make eye contact with me when she walked past because of the shame she felt but, this is the lifestyle she picked. I know not all are this way but, the problem is that so many are. I guess because I am conservative sexually, I don't just want to mess around, i am turned off by how liberal everything is. So many single moms online. Its not ideal. I always appreciated the experiences I had through real interactions so, I plan on holding out on that. You used the word "virtuous" which is not something I come across too often. I know many "intelligent" or maybe book smart women but, very liberal, sleep around, and make a lot of bad decisions. Its crazy. I was asked to come over to a woman's house to have sex while her husband was out. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

I just had an idea. Have you considered dating girls from another culture? I know western society is heading for the swamps. My girlfriend is Chinese. They hold strong family values.

[thecurrentyear]

Nothing, but it implies childhood issues, which I think he has yet to resolve based on what he says from time to time. You know those weird moments when somebody says something that makes you go "Wait, what?"? I've come across too many of those moments after having listening to him for several months. It's hard to make this case on a simple forum post without spending hours to go through all his videos again, which is why I am not going to make it here. It's just my impression of him. 

 

Buuuut, you know that reaction could just as easily be caused by your own childhood issues you haven't worked through (and he just happens to be triggering)...you'll need to RTR-it-out in each one, if you want to know for sure.

[meetjoeblack]

I just had an idea. Have you considered dating girls from another culture? I know western society is heading for the swamps. My girlfriend is Chinese. They hold strong family values.

 

I have dated Chinese before. I think I like the Asian culture. I agree with western society heading into the swamps especially with respect to destroyed nuclear family. The father figure is pretty much disrespected and reduced to a utility. I know a older man who hates his job and life. I am pretty sure his wife is running out on him. She has these random excuses for not coming home or randomly going on vacation with girls from work. I know how girls behave on vacation. He looks so sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for him in some sense but, I am pissed to that anybody would let their life become this? I guess my fear is to follow the beaten path, be like everyone else, and then, end up in a disaster. The man's health is not great, his memory is slipping, his teeth are disgusting, and its a miserable existence. He could fix his teeth but the wife doesn't want him to touch the money. That is for her when he kicks off likely to run off with her new bf she has on the side. I am just so disgusted. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.