Is MGTOW an unsustainable lifestyle?

[Meister]

On 1/5/2017 at 1:07 PM, Wuzzums said:

MGTOW is another marxist trick to eradicate whites.

 

I have never seen a black MGTOW.

No married man is considered to be MGTOW.

No man with a girlfriend is considered MGTOW.

No man with a child is considered MGTOW.

MGTOW specifically targets teenagers to forgo female contact.

MGTOW creates a strawman of the female character as something undesirable (sour grapes).

MGTOW promotes isolation from society (ghosting).

MGTOW criticize any enjoyment of female interaction as misandry.

 

 

 

MGTOW sells itself as a male boycott to female vanity but its true intentions became clear after the "leaders" stated that there's no such thing as a good woman.

In my understanding MGTOW is in no way a "boycott fo female vanity".

And this lifestyle is very sustainable. I'm almost fourty and I've been mgtow pretty much since childhood. I went full monk 13 years ago.

I have  no woman or children holding me down, I'm educated, great job, high income, healthy, exercise a lot, many hobbies, friends and complete freedom to spend my time as I see fit. Mgtow lifestyle is totally awesome. I look back to when I still dated and damn! did I dodge some bullets. Why would anyone not want this??

With the laws the way they are, getting romantically involved with women doesn't stand up to any cost-benefit analysis whatsoever.

Even with non-gynocentric laws mgtow seems to be a much  better choice to me.

And what is it with all this "white race" and "passing on genes" nonsense??? WTF??

[Wuzzums]

6 hours ago, Meister said:

In my understanding MGTOW is in no way a "boycott fo female vanity".

That was my understanding also. I listened to a lot of Stardust and Barbarossa and a pretty ominous undertone came to light: "women are useless because they have needs". The people who are really into the MGTOW community will attack anyone that has a relationship with a woman. I gave up on them once I saw them recruiting kids (teenagers) into their lifestyle.

They started out actually having a point but being inside an echo-chamber is the mental equivalent of inbreeding. Only a matter of time until some really deformed "babies" come out.

6 hours ago, Meister said:

And what is it with all this "white race" and "passing on genes" nonsense??? WTF??

Are you implying there's something wrong or at the very least nonsensical in having kids and enjoying the company of people like you?

[Meister]

5 hours ago, Wuzzums said:

That was my understanding also. I listened to a lot of Stardust and Barbarossa and a pretty ominous undertone came to light: "women are useless because they have needs". The people who are really into the MGTOW community will attack anyone that has a relationship with a woman. I gave up on them once I saw them recruiting kids (teenagers) into their lifestyle.

How is it a bad thing that kids and teenagers are being told the truth about the legal situation in regards to marriage and relationships?

[Wuzzums]

1 hour ago, Meister said:

How is it a bad thing that kids and teenagers are being told the truth about the legal situation in regards to marriage and relationships?

It's not. Wish MGTOWs would go back to that.

[AccuTron]

Also, were some of the unmarried men burdened with health issues that kept them at a disadvantage in dating and marriage?  That would skew the data.

[FANATICAL]

I'm MGTOW and it's not because I can't get women ... For me it's about living for myself first.

I focused on making money and investing and I'm much wealthier now than the guys who have families. Wealthy enough to send cash each month to a bald Canadian philosopher I have not even met. 

This has caused a steady supply of 20 year old women to chase me to try to lock me down.

I currently have a 23 year old fwb and I don't have to waste time doing a single thing with her I don't want. 

True MGTOW in my view, isn't a means of attacking or defending some straw-woman. It's a way of maximising utility. The state and women have colluded to remove a man's ability to get anything in return for resource provision. Women know men have no leverage in marriage and behave badly as a result.

When you stop trying to wife them up and you're out of reach it drives them crazy. They know you've regained leverage and utility by ensuring every exchange is a fair one in terms you agree to. 

We don't need to breed to keep the movement going, as it's a response to the toxic modern society. A percentage of all men will continue to drop out until after collapse again makes men super valuable to women and patriarchy returns - as per the 1950s post war man drought causing every girl to be a great housewife... 

So sit back, hoard money, sleep with hot girls and enjoy the collapse.

Have to say though .... I'm hopeful of a modern day crusade in Europe circa 2040, so that I can die in battle and avoid old age. 

 

[os.motic]

2 hours ago, FANATICAL said:

I'm MGTOW and it's not because I can't get women ...

 

Said every MGTOWer ever. 

[Laforge]

Come on lads, we can do better than MGTOW.

The guy in the video below is not particularly known for his steady relationships. But i think he makes some very useful points in the context of this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkU6XN5jfg

 

[Meister]

12 hours ago, FANATICAL said:

I'm MGTOW and it's not because I can't get women ... For me it's about living for myself first.

I focused on making money and investing and I'm much wealthier now than the guys who have families. Wealthy enough to send cash each month to a bald Canadian philosopher I have not even met. 

This has caused a steady supply of 20 year old women to chase me to try to lock me down.

I currently have a 23 year old fwb and I don't have to waste time doing a single thing with her I don't want. 

True MGTOW in my view, isn't a means of attacking or defending some straw-woman. It's a way of maximising utility. The state and women have colluded to remove a man's ability to get anything in return for resource provision. Women know men have no leverage in marriage and behave badly as a result.

When you stop trying to wife them up and you're out of reach it drives them crazy. They know you've regained leverage and utility by ensuring every exchange is a fair one in terms you agree to. 

We don't need to breed to keep the movement going, as it's a response to the toxic modern society. A percentage of all men will continue to drop out until after collapse again makes men super valuable to women and patriarchy returns - as per the 1950s post war man drought causing every girl to be a great housewife... 

So sit back, hoard money, sleep with hot girls and enjoy the collapse.

Have to say though .... I'm hopeful of a modern day crusade in Europe circa 2040, so that I can die in battle and avoid old age. 

 

Women haven't "colluded". Women are just being women.

There is no conspiracy.

It's mens fault for changing the laws to pander to women.

 

See it like this:

If you have children and instead of disciplining and educating them you let them make the rules, you end up with retarded rules like "no brushing teeth" and "no more bedtime".

Soon you'll be living in hell ... but it's not the kids fault. The kids haven't been colluding. They've just been kids.

 

The shit started once women started to get political participation without any responsibility.

They wanted the right to vote but not register for the draft. Men decided to give them these privileges and they can take them away, because they are obviously stronger than women.

They demand free government payouts, without paying the same taxes men pay, same pay with less work and other crazy shit and other preferential treatment.

Now it's mostly women and effeminate men who vote for socialism, big government, no freedom of speech and leftist insanity laws like gender mumbo jumbo and the likes.

 

Until men restore a soft patriarchy again, this society is going to end in a disaster of historical proportions.

[Meister]

9 hours ago, os.motic said:

Said every MGTOWer ever. 

You have to be a special kinda special not be able to find some woman who wants to hook up with you.

I've had my share of relationships and broke up with my last girlfriend 13 years ago to go monk.

You are basically claiming that I am lying ...

[os.motic]

2 hours ago, Meister said:

You are basically claiming that I am lying ...

I was just joshing, not trying to call you a liar.

[FANATICAL]

On 2017-4-30 at 3:41 PM, os.motic said:

Said every MGTOWer ever. 

It's just a fact that I'm relating. Once you go MGTOW, your ability to get women goes up a lot because you're no longer putting them on a pedestal and you're emotionally distant ... Which they seem to love. 

Your statement would be correct for incel guys and not real MGTOW. You're not going your own way if you just couldn't get a girl and are alone.

[bl4k]

On 1/4/2017 at 8:41 PM, DaVinci said:

From my own experience in this realm it seems unsustainable. In the same way that a division of labor creates more wealth it seems that the MGTOW lifestyle is the opposite. You have to do everything yourself, or at the very least accept that you can't do everything yourself and not even bother with certain activities like making your own food everyday, keeping your house clean, etc. 

 

Granted if you are rich, it might not be a problem, but for the already poor I think MGTOW compounds the problems that come with being poor. 

 

Does anyone else have some experience in this realm, or some thoughts on if MGTOW is something that actually works in the long term?

MGTOW philosophy denies biology in precisely the same manner that the feminism in which they criticize does.

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 2:28 AM, bl4k said:

MGTOW philosophy denies biology in precisely the same manner that the feminism in which they criticize does.

True but, one relies on government resources, victimhood, and stealing away a man's children (assuming they are his and he did not get cucked) as well as unleashing the dogs of the state to steal his money.

[meetjoeblack]

I don't think it is a sustainable lifestyle for most men. Most men are easily the biggest saps who will cave the sec they get pussy bombed.

 

I recently went to a Jack & Jill. Still single. I assumed, there must be some single people. NOPE! It was my first experience of social anxiety in a long time. Here is how a covo went:

 

Couple: so you married?

Me: No

Couple: Gf?

Me: Nope. Dating but, nothing serious.

Couple: Awwwww. Maybe one day.

Me: GRRRRRRRRR!

 

Because, the merit to which a person is successful is of course following the beaten path, to get married, and have children. I wouldn't be as big a cynic if the majority of times it was what people always desired. In my experience, it has more to do with a woman's biological clock, and a man being dragged for the ride until she tells him to get out lol

[Add984]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 1:41 AM, DaVinci said:

From my own experience in this realm it seems unsustainable. In the same way that a division of labor creates more wealth it seems that the MGTOW lifestyle is the opposite. You have to do everything yourself, or at the very least accept that you can't do everything yourself and not even bother with certain activities like making your own food everyday, keeping your house clean, etc. 

 

Granted if you are rich, it might not be a problem, but for the already poor I think MGTOW compounds the problems that come with being poor. 

 

Does anyone else have some experience in this realm, or some thoughts on if MGTOW is something that actually works in the long term?

Speaking as a guy who has been single for over two years and for many years before my last serious relationship, I FEEL much better in myself. I live alone, cook, clean and maintain my own home and self and it gives me a peculiar sense of satisfaction knowing I'm self-reliant in some way I can't put my finger on.

The flat I lived in with my ex was often messy, smelly, etc as we both just couldn't be bothered. It's strange, I suppose. 

In direct answer to your question, I think some of the MGTOW channels have said that MGTOW men were quite common in times past as most men could not attract a mate and most women were content to be mistresses or at least occasional bed fellows with a single man. Marriage was more a status symbol back in the day. 

[barn]

Is it fair to assume, that from an evolutionary standpoint MGTOW's analogous to the "Judean People's Front" (not to be confused with the People's Front of Judea), Monty Python - The Life of Brian?

And that it is also a representation of a hyper-individualistic lifestyle, not involved in the creation of stable family units?

"

SSOJPF: ('engaging' the Romans) That showed them, huh!

Brian: (can't facepalm for obvious reasons... ) You, silly sods!

"

[J.L.W]

I see MGTOW kind of like an immune systems response to a pathogen. The unhealthier a society gets the more of it there will be but if Stefan and others are successful then it will be wiped out and never thought of again.

[Siegfried von Walheim]

MGTOW is just the male equivalent to feminism. Pretty much everything a feminist says about a man, a MGTOW says about a woman. While there is stuff to learn from MGTOW (like the dangers of bad women) sort of how there used to be stuff to learn from feminism (like about dangerous men), both are just suicidal ideologies that will cease to exist once their proprietors die of old age and the children of those that decided to actually procreate become the dominant force.

Like feminism, MGTOW is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Only difference is that feminism is backed by the state and dominant while MGTOW is new and dormant.

[barn]

1 hour ago, J.L.W said:

I see MGTOW kind of like an immune systems response to a pathogen. The unhealthier a society gets the more of it there will be but if Stefan and others are successful then it will be wiped out and never thought of again.

Not bad analogy. Have you heard about the phenomenon when the immune system turns on healthy cells?

E:dit

Edited June 23, 2018 by barn
link

[J.L.W]

24 minutes ago, barn said:

Not bad analogy. Have you heard about the phenomenon when the immune system turns on healthy cells?

I am a type 1 diabetic.

You mean some MGTOW types are turning on based women? Also, leaving women with only bad options.

[barn]

3 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

types are turning on based women? 

I'm sorry, didn't quite get this.

Are you saying 'turning against virtuous women'?

4 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

Also, leaving women with only bad options.

In what sense? Please give me a few words of clarity, pls. Thanks.

[barn]

With the autoimmune stuff, I was referring to this comment :

 

On 04/26/2017 at 2:58 AM, Wuzzums said:

They started out actually having a point but being inside an echo-chamber is the mental equivalent of inbreeding. Only a matter of time until some really deformed "babies" come out.

"Oh, hi Mark(Wuzzums) ! "

 

Also, type 1 is a challenge to say the least...

[J.L.W]

On 4/30/2017 at 5:43 AM, FANATICAL said:

I'm MGTOW and it's not because I can't get women ... For me it's about living for myself first.

I focused on making money and investing and I'm much wealthier now than the guys who have families. Wealthy enough to send cash each month to a bald Canadian philosopher I have not even met. 

This has caused a steady supply of 20 year old women to chase me to try to lock me down.

I currently have a 23 year old fwb and I don't have to waste time doing a single thing with her I don't want. 

True MGTOW in my view, isn't a means of attacking or defending some straw-woman. It's a way of maximising utility. The state and women have colluded to remove a man's ability to get anything in return for resource provision. Women know men have no leverage in marriage and behave badly as a result.

When you stop trying to wife them up and you're out of reach it drives them crazy. They know you've regained leverage and utility by ensuring every exchange is a fair one in terms you agree to. 

We don't need to breed to keep the movement going, as it's a response to the toxic modern society. A percentage of all men will continue to drop out until after collapse again makes men super valuable to women and patriarchy returns - as per the 1950s post war man drought causing every girl to be a great housewife... 

So sit back, hoard money, sleep with hot girls and enjoy the collapse.

Have to say though .... I'm hopeful of a modern day crusade in Europe circa 2040, so that I can die in battle and avoid old age. 

 

In my experience, with anyone who has this attitude for too long, life kind of bends their will. They end up having their will somewhat broken by an intense member of the "fairer sex" (snigger) or having to rely on them in lifes rough and tumble. Just a thought. Pride comes before the fall. I once thought i was all that at one time.

By my earlier comment I mean if a girl has two guys in her life one is an MGTOW and one is a lout that will beat her and the MGTOW is not interested, then that is a social ill not a social good.

[J.L.W]

I also think when society does return to some sort of health, and I have faith... That it will it will be men that take down MGTOW and women that will take down feminism. I do believe that there is a natural way we have of sorting out our own houses,

[barn]

22 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

In my experience, with anyone who has this attitude for too long, life kind of bends their will. They end up having their will somewhat broken by an intense member of the "fairer sex" (snigger) or having to rely on them in lifes rough and tumble. Just a thought. Pride comes before the fall. I once thought i was all that at one time. 

The main reason why I think it isn't accurate is because the choices people make defines their character and rather than the other way around. (I'm no determinist for having it disproven adequately, on my own first.)

But yeah, not connecting with the inner-pain corrupts the soul. I'm more than sure the person you quoted wasn't into talk therapy that much.

22 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

By my earlier comment I mean if a girl has two guys in her life one is an MGTOW and one is a lout that will beat her and the MGTOW is not interested, then that is a social ill not a social good. 

Where are the choices? I'm not saying it isn't a manifestation of corruption in society but when you zoom in on what people thought & did, it's a lot more clear what fallacies and cognitive biases should be avoided... by objective and universally preferable standards. (at least, that's my take on it)

19 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

I also think when society does return to some sort of health, and I have faith... That it will it will be men that take down MGTOW and women that will take down feminism. I do believe that there is a natural way we have of sorting out our own houses,

I can see eye to eye on that one to near completely. Funny thing is, not sure if women are capable to even police themselves. (again, might be wrong here too)

(as in:

Yeeeah...! Goood jooob!

vs.

I'm sorry but that's bad. Here's why...)

[J.L.W]

10 minutes ago, barn said:

The main reason why I think it isn't accurate is because the choices people make defines their character and rather than the other way around. (I'm no determinist for having it disproven adequately, on my own first.)

But yeah, not connecting with the inner-pain corrupts the soul. I'm more than sure the person you quoted wasn't into talk therapy that much.

Where are the choices? I'm not saying it isn't a manifestation of corruption in society but when you zoom in on what people thought & did, it's a lot more clear what fallacies and cognitive biases should be avoided... by objective and universally preferable standards. (at least, that's my take on it)

I can see eye to eye on that one to near completely. Funny thing is, not sure if women are capable to even police themselves. (again, might be wrong here too)

(as in:

Yeeeah...! Goood jooob!

vs.

I'm sorry but that's bad. Here's why...)

From what I have seen women are able to police one another and they can also be VICIOUS in a way that men really can't that much to a woman in my view, it can get seriously unpleasant but it does seem fairly undirected sometimes, not targeted to achieve a goal like a change in behaviour. I think men when it comes down to it always have a 'she needs to be looked after' button that never really goes away but women don't have that with other women. I think if the power relations changed women would police themselves more.

That 'pride comes before the fall ' statement has happened both with me and others. True it is the choices we make BUT, life in my view just has a general "way" of getting to people with exactly the right "medicine". Personal examples, including of friends here seem... too personal. With me, I thought i could do just about anything and I met an intense young girl that showed me that was not the case. Other examples don't include a direct intention from girls to 'bring someone down'  but have put a sharp stop to behaviour of being in control all the time with them and doing what you want.

[barn]

14 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

From what I have seen women are able to police one another and they can also be VICIOUS in a way that men really can't that much to a woman in my view, it can get seriously unpleasant but it does seem fairly undirected sometimes, not targeted to achieve a goal like a change in behaviour. I think men when it comes down to it always have a 'she needs to be looked after' button that never really goes away but women don't have that with other women. I think if the power relations changed women would police themselves more. 

Would you say that can be proved? (that women can police themselves) How?

14 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

That 'pride comes before the fall ' statement has happened both with me and others. True it is the choices we make BUT, life in my view just has a general "way" of getting to people with exactly the right "medicine". Personal examples, including of friends here seem... too personal. With me, I thought i could do just about anything and I met an intense young girl that showed me that was not the case. Other examples don't include a direct intention from girls to 'bring someone down'  but have put a sharp stop to behaviour of being in control all the time with them and doing what you want. 

That must have been a hard experience for you...that is, if I properly understood your anecdote. (I am serious about saying I empathise with your lived experience)

[J.L.W]

2 minutes ago, barn said:

Would you say that can be proved? (that women can police themselves) How?

That must have been a hard experience for you...that is, if I properly understood your anecdote.

No, much of my experience here I am describing is anecdotal. An example of this might be when dealing with fashion girls how afraid they are of each other verses how unconcerned they are about men. Little girls in the schoolyard perhaps. Or how girls decide that one of their number is a bit of a 'princess' and start behaving differently to her according to that. I think a lot of what women experience happens on this subtle abstract emotional level that is not easy to grip with facts and figures.

But women and social shaming! When you ask how they do so I think it is with emotional disapproval for various things, after endless emotional discussion about everything, and I generally think workplace power structures are what upsets their social dynamic. 

The experience was what it was, I have had far worse things happen.

[barn]

12 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

No, much of my experience here I am describing is anecdotal. An example of this might be when dealing with fashion girls how afraid they are of each other verses how unconcerned they are about men. Little girls in the schoolyard perhaps. Or how girls decide that one of their number is a bit of a 'princess' and start behaving differently to her according to that. I think a lot of what women experience happens on this subtle abstract emotional level that is not easy to grip with facts and figures. 

Here's a personal experience for you, I also found women in general to be with a much greater preference for the subjective, 'touchy-feely' and had a usually more anxious reaction to being contradicted... not that one of my friend who I haven't seen for ages isn't a near perfect opposite of what I just hazily and in general terms described to you. Though she's also (for some unexplainable reason) more fond of having male friends, well, the last time I saw her that was the case... anyhow.

12 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

But women and social shaming! When you ask how they do so I think it is with emotional disapproval for various things, after endless emotional discussion about everything, and I generally think workplace power structures are what upsets their social dynamic.  

Don't get me wrong but I don't see a whole lot of social shaming of single mothers or sl&ts in general to pick a few 'usual suspects'.... It seems to me, their social shaming is very lopsided and usually directed at men, or men, sometimes even men, when men isn't around then they frequently shame men. (I'm being obviously cheeky a bit, but if you laughed you know coz it's true. )

12 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

The experience was what it was, I have had far worse things happen.

Can you tell if it won't happen again? (no need to go into details)

[barn]

Having been an avid science fiction consumer since I know life, it's quite natural for me to draw some parallels with the art, like this one...

Star Trek

The Jem'hadar is a genetically engineered servant race to the Dominion.

In many ways, they are by far the most manliest characters in the Star Trek lore(background of the image) , ruled by the Vorta (foreground of the image) and oh by the by... the Vorta are subservient to a race that's literally shapeshifters....

(disregard the latest bastardized trials with diversity cast in new movies & series reiterations lately...)

[J.L.W]

1 hour ago, barn said:

Can you tell if it won't happen again? (no need to go into details)

 

If I was again "harrassed" by another absolutely gorgeous girl for three years again. Well, no I would handle it before it got to three years.

Felt like I was going mad and no one would believe me if I complained.

[J.L.W]

I love DS9 have a lot to say on that!

[J.L.W]

1 hour ago, barn said:

Don't get me wrong but I don't see a whole lot of social shaming of single mothers or sl&ts in general to pick a few 'usual suspects'.... It seems to me, their social shaming is very lopsided and usually directed at men, or men, sometimes even men, when men isn't around then they frequently shame men. (I'm being obviously cheeky a bit, but if you laughed you know coz it's true. )

Ha ha, that's messed up. Who would want to spend time with such people?

48 minutes ago, barn said:

Having been an avid science fiction consumer since I know life, it's quite natural for me to draw some parallels with the art, like this one...

Star Trek

The Jem'hadar is a genetically engineered servant race to the Dominion.

In many ways, they are by far the most manliest characters in the Star Trek lore(background of the image) , ruled by the Vorta (foreground of the image) and oh by the by... the Vorta are subservient to a race that's literally shapeshifters....

(disregard the latest bastardized trials with diversity cast in new movies & series reiterations lately...)

There were a LOT of metaphors in DS9. The Jem Hadar seem a little like Islam, unthinking soldiers. The Cardassians a bit like the UK and or Germans with their strange obedience to authority. The Bajorans were the Irish this was back when the US was funding the IRA. The federation was obviousy the US/ EU.

Sisko was awesome. I liken his connection with those spirits and how things went better when he was connected with them to a regular persons connection with their best selves. When I do music, regardless of what else is going on things seem to go a lot better.

[J.L.W]

Also I forgot the Romulans were Russian and the Ferenghi were a little Jewish. But a bit of a lopsided Jewish, and they soon become the comical characters.