indian iq

[brendan]

indian iq was discussed in a call in show recently.  There is an important reason why the overall iq is in the 80s while US immigrant indians are over 100: caste.  Brahmin indians seem to have jewish levels of iq, tho there doesn't seem to be as much data on them as the jews.  Most indian immigrants to US are brahmin so can be predicted to outperform whites.  Meanwhile indian immigrants to uk are other castes so will probably have lower social outcomes that the whites.  Once you strip out the brahmins, perhaps it is then that you get the average iq in the 70s that the caller maintained.  Of course poverty will contribute a lot to this and i would expect second gen immigrants from this pool to be higher.

[aviet]

Is there any data as to what castes have moved where?

The IQ of British-Indian students is 97:

http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Chisala-4.png

But this includes Muslims, when you take that out it goes up to about 100, which is still two points below native British.

Indians do perform better in exams though. Which I think is worth noting, as economic performance can be terrible among intelligent people for various reasons.

In the UK, income for whites is slightly higher than Indians, who are both close to 100% on Pakistanis and Bangladesis (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/weekly-disposable-household-income-by-ethnicity-tax-years-19941995-to-20122013uk)

According to a Wiki article, the source for which is a 404, East-Indian American incomes are the highest at about 30% above Anglo-Americans. This huge divergence from Indians in the UK is interesting.

To test your theory on castes consider the following distribution of Indian surnames throughout the world:

Gaekwad (Indian noble family): About 5% in the US, 5% in the UK, about 85% in India

Bhonsle (Indian noble family): ~5% in the Us, about 2% in the UK, ~90% in India
Pusapati (noble): >1% in the US, ~98% in India
Chamar (low caste) 0.1% in the US, ~99.9% in India 
Bhange (toilet cleaner caste): <0.1% in the US, ~99% in India
Pariya (low caste): <0.1% in the US, ~99% in India
Kumar (generic): ~0.2% in the US, ~0.1% in the UK, ~98% in India
Choudhary (*): ~1% in the US, ~1% in the UK, ~90% in India

*Choudhary is a noble name, but it was overwhelmingly adopted by general people who wanted to make themselves seem more important.

So at a glance, seems that high castes have left India at high levels, while low castes have overwhelmingly remained.

With the brutality of the Indian caste system, it would make sense that smarter people originally formed the higher castes and closed off relatively small gene pools from the untouchable masses. But not sure why there is such a disparity with the UK in terms of income.

A look at lists of British and American Indians on WIkipedia shows a lot more common names in the UK, and rare, likely high-caste surnames in the US.

[DaveR]

what caste is kapur/kapoor please?

[Cuffy_Meigs]

I have heard Stefan and others say on numerous occasions that democratic government has never succeeded in a country whose average IQ is below 90. India therefore seems to provide clear evidence that this is false.

 

Have I misunderstood?

[aviet]

I have heard Stefan and others say on numerous occasions that democratic government has never succeeded in a country whose average IQ is below 90. India therefore seems to provide clear evidence that this is false.

 

Have I misunderstood?

Any form of government would likely not work in a low IQ country, in comparison to what we are accustomed to in relatively high IQ countries. Though the difference is with democracy is that it will have parties pandering for power by offering incentives to various groups.

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

Indians do perform better in exams though. Which I think is worth noting, as economic performance can be terrible among intelligent people for various reasons.

 

Thanks for noting this. It's frustrating measuring things by a Prussian-education model. Obviously there is some intelligence involved, but doing well on tests is basically a measure of being able to memorize what you were told to memorize.

[Magnetic Synthesizer]

I've seen things suggesting Indians are very smart (indian engineer stereo-type) like in the movie who's name I don't remember.

but then the national IQ is much lower. I've also heard from indians that some 'mainland?' indians are dumb.

 

So this is very interesting. Still have to go back and figure out if immigrant's children falling back to their country of origine's mean IQ is true.

[Spaceballs]

Every time I hear Jew's IQ... I become skeptical.  Lots of Jews are nomad and I really doubt most are >60% pure.  Any data where I can verify it?
ie Larry David is 63% European (Jew? Russian? Polish? else?) and 37% Native American.