mgggb Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 I was speaking with a friend when the topic of integration came up. He is ethnically German and told me about how his ancestors came over here in the mid 1800s. They were content to live in enclaves of German culture in and around the Pennsylvania region until about ww1/ww2 when the anti german sentiment prompted them to learn English in a hurry. Here's an article about a Wisconsin town if you're interested in the topic. There are more than a few parallels with the modern hispanic subculture. I think this totally refutes the melting pot concept, with an important distinction: you can't really tell if someone is of German or English ancestry in the US without breaking out the calipers, but you will always be able to tell if someone is hispanic on sight, even if they have perfectly integrated. As I see it, Germans were the best case scenario for the melting pot to work out and there are still places today in the US that have not fully integrated, and that was after two world wars with massive anti German propaganda campaigns. What are your thoughts on the future of Hispanic integration? I think its grim.
M.2 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 I don't think I can agree with your premise that it was the Wars that integrated the Germans. Germans have always been the model minority. Whether they lived in Petrograd, Bohemia, Transylvania, Chile, Argentina, Pennsylvania, Volgograd, etc, they always strived to make their adopted land better, to serve their neighbours, to learn their language, and to build cities. Such was the attitude of the German diaspora best verbalised by Carlos Anwandter, the father of the German Chileans: We shall be honest and laborious Chileans as the best of them, we shall defend our adopted country joining in the ranks of our new countrymen, against any foreign oppression and with the decision and firmness of the man that defends his country, his family and his interests. Never will have the country that adopts us as its children, reason to repent of such illustrated, human and generous proceeding,... — Carlos Anwandter
mgggb Posted March 10, 2017 Author Posted March 10, 2017 I don't think I can agree with your premise that it was the Wars that integrated the Germans. Germans have always been the model minority. Whether they lived in Petrograd, Bohemia, Transylvania, Chile, Argentina, Pennsylvania, Volgograd, etc, they always strived to make their adopted land better, to serve their neighbours, to learn their language, and to build cities. Such was the attitude of the German diaspora best verbalised by Carlos Anwandter, the father of the German Chileans: We shall be honest and laborious Chileans as the best of them, we shall defend our adopted country joining in the ranks of our new countrymen, against any foreign oppression and with the decision and firmness of the man that defends his country, his family and his interests. Never will have the country that adopts us as its children, reason to repent of such illustrated, human and generous proceeding,... — Carlos Anwandter Some have, some haven't. What matters is if they are perceived to be integrating, not if they actually are. Agree or disagree, but sometime around ww1/ww2 they stopped being hyphenated americans. But I referenced it to talk about modern parallels, not if Germans have been good or bad minorities historically.
AraiBob Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 Great Depression, What You Didn't Learn in School - Part 1 thru part 4 found in youtube
plato85 Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 Operation Paperclip: At the end of WWII the US imported West German scientists and academics into US universities to get an edge over the USSR in the cold war. Along with those academics they also imported the ideologies that made the Wiemar Republic the mess it was. Western Culture is still in a state of psychosis. All of these years after the war our society is still so completely obsessed with the war and Nazis, that we see everything though that prism rather than the thousands of years of history we have. We try so hard to be the opposite of Nazi's that we're ironically becoming what the Nazi's were reacting against.
ofd Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 Quote they also imported the ideologies that made the Wiemar Republic the mess it was. You are confusing the physicists with the social scientists, psychologists, sociologists, and critics who belonged to the Frankfurt School or who were sympathtetic to it. Furthermore, the same ideology came into existence in the US, prior to the Frankfurt emigrating to the US. Franz Boas and Margarete Meat started the change they wanted to see in Anthropology, but they planned to infect other sciences as well (which they accomplished).
Eudaimonic Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 I would've thought WWI and WWII killed off all the men with any balls (most testosterone) therefore dooming the subsequent generations to gradually becoming women. Worst thing that happened to US culture imo. 1
Erwin Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 On 3/10/2017 at 4:44 AM, mgggb said: What are your thoughts on the future of Hispanic integration? I think its grim. I don't see why Spaniards can't integrate, at least in North America... But latinos? no way.
mgggb Posted July 28, 2017 Author Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 4:24 PM, Erwin said: I don't see why Spaniards can't integrate, at least in North America... But latinos? no way. I've had some time to mull it over and I think that if there is any group of third worlders that could be assimilated it would be Latinos because they speak a European language, worship a European God, come from European styles of government, and genetically are 50-75% European. That doesn't mean that they should be allowed in, but that since US immigration policy is largely out of my control, so in the worst case they're ≈ brown Irish. If you're interested I made a blog post elaborating those points.
mgggb Posted July 28, 2017 Author Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 0:39 PM, Eudaimonic said: I would've thought WWI and WWII killed off all the men with any balls (most testosterone) therefore dooming the subsequent generations to gradually becoming women. Worst thing that happened to US culture imo. I can see it both ways. Why do you think it is the worst thing that happened to US culture?
mgggb Posted July 28, 2017 Author Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 6:05 AM, plato85 said: We try so hard to be the opposite of Nazi's that we're ironically becoming what the Nazi's were reacting against. Reminds me of that Churchill quote that the next fascists will call themselves anti fascists.
mgggb Posted July 28, 2017 Author Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 6:31 AM, ofd said: You are confusing the physicists with the social scientists, psychologists, sociologists, and critics who belonged to the Frankfurt School or who were sympathtetic to it. Furthermore, the same ideology came into existence in the US, prior to the Frankfurt emigrating to the US. Franz Boas and Margarete Meat started the change they wanted to see in Anthropology, but they planned to infect other sciences as well (which they accomplished). How do we assign responsibility in this though? They may have been trying to infect the US with their ideology but we still accepted it. For example, if someone convinces you that murder is great and you go out and kill someone, sure they have responsibility for putting that idea in you, but if you weren't at least a little receptive to it it wouldn't have taken root.
ofd Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 Quote How do we assign responsibility in this though? They may have been trying to infect the US with their ideology but we still accepted it. The majority of Americans didn't accept those ideas or ideologies, it was the Cathedral that did it. Goldbug coined the term Cathedral to identify an informal network of academia, media companies, bureaucrats, and NGOs that have de facto created the cultural hegemony in Western countries. The Marxists and Cultural Marxists in the strict sense realized that you don't have to control the economy or the military power to take over a country. Before there was the internet, you needed relatively few people on the top to do just that. Take over an institution, change the parameters of what can and cannot be said and select the people that can advance in your institution and in a few years you have converted it. The Cathedral is amorphous and decentral, there is no vast conspiracy behind. The people in there are led by false incentives that will eventually destroy Western Culture. Ironically, Chomsky realized that with his propaganda model in which he showed how media companies filter out people that don't fit it, so you have a uniform perspective in the end. In the end it didn't matter if Americans outside the Cathedral were convinced or not. It didn't matter if you agreed with it or not, before the internet. If you agreed, you could join them. If you didn't, you couldn't. In the latter case that meant that it was hard to shape public discourse the way media and academia did for a long time.
Erwin Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 7 hours ago, mgggb said: are 50-75% European. Great blog post. 50-75% is the average. It doesn't take into account variation of their racial groups. For example, the average IQ of all humans is 100, but when you break it down by race, quite a different story. So if you're targeting the actual Spaniards (Jorge Ramos?) in Latin America as a candidate for immigration then I'd agree with you.
Eudaimonic Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 7 hours ago, mgggb said: I can see it both ways. Why do you think it is the worst thing that happened to US culture? Well, it was a bit satirical, but lower testosterone means both less drive to achieve and less drive to defend the tribe. America was at least less willing to be dependent on the government before the Great War, I think.
mgggb Posted July 29, 2017 Author Posted July 29, 2017 20 hours ago, Eudaimonic said: Well, it was a bit satirical, but lower testosterone means both less drive to achieve and less drive to defend the tribe. America was at least less willing to be dependent on the government before the Great War, I think. I agree, but I also see the two world wars in a positive context too. You can definitely have too much drive, especially if you are working in the wrong domain, and too much defence of the tribe, which is basically sharia. The wars culled the heard of the most aggressive individuals in the most aggressive cultures, namely Russia and Germany. I wouldn't say mass slaughter is or was desirable, but it may have been inevitable.
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