Trump Attacks Syria

[Bilderberg CEO]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. There goes all my hope that Trump would be different.

[DaVinci]

I remember debating with people during the election that Hillary was trying to start war with Russia and that Obama declaring a no fly zone would be an act of war. Now we have Trump shooting missiles at Syria....why? Cause of a chemical attack that happened inside the country? Anyone want to try and explain how this is okay? 

[Gavitor]

Anyone want to try and explain how this is okay? 

 

It's not okay. I'm expecting a repeat of past mistakes...

[RichardY]

Guns pointed at his family.

[Wuzzums]

 

If Trump comes out on top again after all of this... I'm going to church because the supernatural is at play here.

 

[Anuojat]

IF it indeed was The syrian government whom EITHER bombed the place with chemical weapons or as they (Syrian army and Russian claims) was dues to bombimg the citys chemical ware house. (Which based on theyre own claims seems to be valid based on all the video and photograps and witness evidence along with the fact that assad didnt claim it was the rebels. Infact both Russia and Syrian army said: Ooops our bad. Whcih in this region of the world is not enough to get you scot free.)

 

And IF trump DID call russia (and maybe syria too altough id imagine Russians probobly would have informed syrians) about the incoming tomahawk responce... (and if nobody died in that base)

 

Then id say we all need to calm the hell down and realize this is the most mild mannered responce and we all just Got #TRIGGERED. If not... then well. We shall have to wait for the evidence.

[grithin]

To preface, I don't read enough of the details to be very accurate with my speculation.

The botched Obama's arab spring left us with a stronger Syria-Iran-Russia union, which counteracts the interests of our duplicitous allies Israel and Saudi Arabia. Perhaps yesterday Trump asked Xi, "will you sell bonds in response to our replacing Assad" and the answer was no.  Russia's interest is the naval base.  That can be maintained without Assad, and perhaps the point of removing Assad is to diminish the Syria-Iran union for future Iran opposition strategies.

[aviet]

The movement will move on without Trump.

Imagine if Obama's supporters were this consistent with their espoused values:

 

[grithin]

Listening to a bit of Alex Jones' show from yesterday, he takes on the view he often does, that of corruption of innocence, that Trump was fooled by those desiring overthrow of Assad, including McCain.  This being wrong, however, this spawned an idea.  If you observe the previous meeting Trump had with Saudi Arabia, you'd either come to the conclusion that either the Saudi's thought Trump was ignorant about their desire to overthrow Assad having nothing to do with false claimed atrocities, or that Trump was not in outright opposition to overthrowing Assad, despite those atrocities being falsely attributed and staged.  
Now, the Arab Spring, from the outset, was to any reasonably discerning and informed mind, a construction and not a evolution of rage.  This, to me, was apparent in 2011, when Tarpley visited the various countries and confirmed it as a construction.  The notion that Trump does not know that previous chemical attacks in Syria were false flag events (despite the white house seemingly releasing a statement to the effect of knowing this in just the past week), and coming to the conclusion that Trump thinks this present chemical attack was the Assad regime, is insane - but, you often get a mixed bag with Alex Jones and other Christians.
Instead, we either have a diminution of power of Trump, wherein, perhaps, the deep state told him he has X amount of time to play around at the start of his presidency, and that time has passed (which would make sense given Trump's statement of regret about his efforts towards health care instead of taxes (which presumes either regret upon timing (April or the breaking of congress), or upon future inability)), or this is an agreement between Trump and the McCain faction to allow passage of either health care reform or tax reform or both.

[WuzBruz]

The thing that is really getting me during this whole debacle is (disclaimer here: obviously things are changing and more facts will come in) the sheer amount of support i'm seeing from people so aboard the trump train that this will not cause them to get off of it.

 

Any 12812d extra dimensional chess memes aside, acting upon an event that can i think be reasonably concluded as propaganda, quite possibly as bad as planned false flag is a horrible thing no matter what angle you take it from.

 

I'm notcing a great deal of people saying things to the effect of "support trump, he'll show to be right in the end", "this sends a message" etc. What kind of message is that to send? That when the MSM, which has done nothing but lie to people for decades and in recent years become the absolute enemy of all those who value human life and freedom, cries out CHEMICAL ATTACK! Trump immediately will launch military action without any sort of congressional approval before any hard facts can be gathered and the situation assessed? What a wonderful message of peace to send to a part of the world already a bit annoyed at america.

 

I have been quite a trump supporter until right this moment and it is baffling to me how so many people are not only refusing to criticise him but are praising his actions to "be a strong leader". It's such a non-philosophical way to phrase it i know but i'm just disgusted that after such a massive campaign of no war people are willing to stand with trump on this in any capacity. Being led to die in a desert under trump instead of hillary is a small comfort indeed. I can only hope this leads to nothing further.

[Donnadogsoth]

Trump's missile strike on Syria is just American outrage, not part of any coherent plan.

 

How many days' worth of outrage is a chemical attack on civilians worth?

[jpahmad]

He blew up an airport.  So what.

[Wuzzums]

That when the MSM, which has done nothing but lie to people for decades and in recent years become the absolute enemy of all those who value human life and freedom, cries out CHEMICAL ATTACK! Trump immediately will launch military action without any sort of congressional approval before any hard facts can be gathered and the situation assessed? What a wonderful message of peace to send to a part of the world already a bit annoyed at america.

 

>Chemical attack took place more than a day before Trump launched the strike.

>Battleships were moved into position way before the MSM started yelling "Chemical attack! DUH CHILDRUN OMG!" (confirmed my Mike Cernovich during his livestream).

>Trump offers no response (no tweets, no "prayers for the victims", silence) while partaking in diplomatic activities with commie leader Xi.

>Media narrative on the false flag grows to a climax.

>The opposition is fully backing Trump.

>Trump orders the attack while having dinner with Xi right next to him.

>The opposition applauds Trump.

>Scott Adams says that the only way to respond to a false flag is through a false attack. Which is what Trump did. No confirmed casualties. And are we supposed to think that he can "start a war" willy nilly yet has trouble getting his people through congress?

 

 

The media is suddenly forgetting the whole Russian interference narrative at the same time Trey Gowdy is put in charge of the investigation. Trey Gowdy, the guy that hates Clinton's guts and never bought into the Russia spin in the first place.

The media is backing Trump now and at the same time it's revealed Clinton sold sarin gas to the syrians.

 

Last year the US accidentally attacked Assad's forces killing DOZENS but media silence. Sure, Assad declared war with the US but Russia calmed him down. Nothing came of that. Why are we supposed to think that launching 50 missiles and killing at the very most 7 people (UNCONFIRMED) is now suddenly an act of war?

 

Trump tweets at least once a day, more if the media is trying to put an unfair spin on what he's doing. Trump hasn't tweeted yet in more than 24h which means (a) the dominoes are still falling and he's timing it and (b) the media is putting the exact type of spin he wants them to put out.

 

 

Gentlemen, I think Trump out-played us all.

 

 

Here's what I think is going to happen.

Syria has been so fractured it's barely a country. Assad winning doesn't mean Syria will remain Syria, chances are it's gonna get divided into different states.

Prior to the false flag attack Trump has been constantly spinning a yarn on how great Jordan is.

Assad wants war with the US.

Assad is allied with the Russians.

Russia doesn't want a war with the US.

It's in the best interest for everyone for Assad to be removed. 

The Russians working with the Syrian forces means things will run just the same with or without Assad there. Russia could offer Assad and his family political asylum for stepping down. They take over officially speaking, they've been running things since this whole mess started anyway. 

Trump forges good ties with Jordan. Jordan annexes a chunk of Syria.

Thus both the US and Russia gain control of that region.

The end effect of them taking control of that region is Turkey losing it's "gonna release muh refugees" trump card over the EU. 

 

Syria is stabilized, the EU is saved, and war with Russia is completely averted.

Praise Kek.

[shirgall]

He blew up an airport.  So what.

 

Judging by the photographs, he put a lot of potholes into a taxiway, messed up some loading racks and a airplane bay, and possibly some more. "Airport" is overstating it. My difficulty is that it is still lethal force, especially since some reports are indicating a couple of deaths. If it seemed likely that 1) Assad is a madman willing to use lethal chemical weapons on civilians, 2) was likely to do it again despite condemnation, 3) had more weapons in his possession at that airport then I could see this event passing my universal bar for the use of lethal force: immediate, otherwise unavoidable, danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent.

 

I'm going to remain critical of the whole affair for a while longer.

[ofd]

Trump's first use of force is to support the same guys who kill Europeans almost weekly now. Good job. The attack has shown that Trump can be controlled, first by removing Bannon from the counsel now with the strike.

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

I'm going to remain critical of the whole affair for a while longer.

 

This is the stage where I'm at.

[Etwa]

Call me crazy, but I always expected Trump to bomb something, just to send shock for better negotiations.

Also his pick for supreme court was confirmed one day after he bombed ... maybe that is the deal he had to make, to fool neocons he can be controlled ? divert attention ?

 

Now that he has his picks ... we shall see next week, if he is our guy dropping truth bombs and draining the swamp. or he is controlled opposition dropping real bombs, all hail neocons.

 

Trump the candidate sure talked a lot, Trump the president actions don't match his talks so far.

 

I must say, I do feel like peon from game of Thrones ... all I hear is ... King is good, King is evil, Long live the king, King is a bastard ... 

I must say, I do feel like peon from game of Thrones ... all I hear is ... King is good, King is evil, Long live the king, King is a bastard ... 

[shirgall]

And... Syria is reportedly flying strike fighters out of that base already.

[Etwa]

And... Syria is reportedly flying strike fighters out of that base already.

 

The sad thing is that $60.000.000 did about the same damage as 1 Truck Driver in Sweden.

[RichardY]

Maybe it was a $60,000,000 plus shed? Funny seeing a lot of Trump supporters condemn him so quickly on Youtube and other sites. After 3 months and decades of high-powered business experience, he suddenly decides to go nuts?

[Robert of Ottawa]

I've spent the day cogitating on this, in between earning money

 

I don't know the reasoning, the "chemical incident" looked totally faked to me as a piece of propaganda and Assad certainly had no reason to antagonize the US when only days earlier Sec. of STate was saying nicee things. It is personnally dispiriting to see Trump fall for it (or not) and to ruin a rapprochement with Russia. I can only enumerrate plusses and minuses.

 

Plus:

Trump showed tough very early, no national leader will take him lightly, which is good.

He would have impressed the Chinese President with whom he dined later.

He pleased Sadis, Ergoden of Trukey and other supporters of ISIS and Al Qaeda.

 

Minus:

Loss of his supporters.

Ruined Russian rapprochement

 

So is Trump gullible and stupid? He got all the usual suspects, including Canadian Twerp Trudeau, all in line singing from the same song book. It looks like the beginning of another NATO make-work project, just like Sarajevo and Kosovo, where we also bombed the wrong people due propaganda.

 

Or was this like Clinton lobby a hundred cruise missiles into Afghanistan, just for show?

 

[Crazyi]

The pieces do not fit together at all and this really bothers me. 

The Syrian/Russian reports say little to 0 deaths, with most missiles hitting the same spot on a runway. Maybe he tried to bribe the Neo - Cons with some warmongering to get Gorsuch in? 

 

Otherwise this is such a strange move because of public backlash. Maybe he is hoping people start calling their congressmen and senators all day and night? Would be an odd bet to place from a rational point of view... 

 

I dunno, my brain had to make up something...

[oaksdave]

I like Wuzzums take, but it needs to integrate Greater Kurdistan and flesh out the anti-Erdogan elements a bit more, please.

[luxfelix]

Was this partly a show of force to China and North Korea?

[WasatchMan]

We all knew Trump is not a principled person, he is the living embodiment of a pragmatist with a businessman's sensibilities and goals.  If you run down the pros vs cons you could see why a pragmatist would make a move like this.

 

Pros:

- Destroys media Russia narrative (a narrative that the opposition party has put a lot of stock into and are going to be scrambling after loosing this last piece of credibility)

- Shows China that America is no longer a paper tiger

- Shows the world what the POTUS can do and who is POTUS

- Rallies Neo-con support

- Damage is minimal and could be maintained and minimized

 

Cons:

- Could start WWIII (Lets say this possibility is around 10%)

- Is a hypocritical move, not supported by a huge portion of his base who could be forever disenfranchised

 

Looking at this from a principled point of view I am disgusted and it will take watching how this plays out to know if I can ever put support behind Trump again.

[ofd]

In the aftermath of the Ghouta chemical attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attackAIPAC heavily lobbied members of congress to take action against Syria http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.545661

See also https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarinfor more details

To this day it's still not clear who was responsible for that incident, though  UN investigators got there the next day. This week's incident is more nebulous since the pictures that were taken make it appear unlikely that Sarin gas was used. Sarin reacts with the skin and using simple rubber gloves doesn't protect you. Spraying the victims with water makes Sarin airborn again and is likely to kill the helpers. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attackfor details on how a real Sarin attack is dealt with.

Furthermore, reports about the gas attack come from Turkey who have a stake in the game. They want to remove Assad who is in a loose alliance with the Kurdish tribes. In the past Turkey has helped IS by selling crude oil the Muslims stole, letting in fighters, treating wounded Islamists, and supplying IS with weapons.

 

[Wuzzums]

Sarin reacts with the skin and using simple rubber gloves doesn't protect you. Spraying the victims with water makes Sarin airborn again and is likely to kill the helpers. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attackfor details on how a real Sarin attack is dealt with.

 

 

Do you have access to the internet everywhere you go?

Yes.

Were you aware before today what sarin gas was and how one should deal with it?

No.

 

Do people in a warzone have access to the internet everywhere they go?

No.

Were they aware what sarin gas was and how you should deal with it?

Of course not.

 

The approach you take to solving a problem does not change the nature of the problem.

 

Cutaneous exposure to the gas is not an issue. It's only toxic in its liquid state if you touch it. Skin cannot absorb gas.

Coming to the scene with gas masks and not knowing what type of gas was used I would say is following the correct protocol.

Secondly using water is the EXACT way you deal with sarin: "The most important chemical reactions of phosphoryl halides is the hydrolysis of the bond between phosphorus and the fluoride. This P-F bond is easily broken by nucleophilic agents, such as water and hydroxide.At high pH, sarin decomposes rapidly to nontoxic phosphonic acid derivatives."

[ofd]

Were you aware before today what sarin gas was and how one should deal with it?

 

Yes, I was in the military and we practiced putting on Hazmat suits.

 

 

Do people in a warzone have access to the internet everywhere they go?

 

The "seven year old Syrian girl" had no problem twittering all the time while being in Aleppo.

 

 

Cutaneous exposure to the gas is not an issue. It's only toxic in its liquid state if you touch it. Skin cannot absorb gas.

Of course it is. Why do yo think that you need Hazmat suits? Because it's so much fun to put them on?

 

Also

 

 

• Even a small drop of sarin on the skin can cause sweating and muscle twitching where sarin touched the skin.
• Exposure to large doses of sarin by any route may result in the following harmful health effects:
  • Loss of consciousness
  • Convulsions
  • Paralysis
  • Respiratory failure possibly leading to death

 

 

 

https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

 

 

Sarin has a high volatility (ease with which a liquid can turn into a gas) relative to similar nerve agents, therefore inhalation can be very dangerous and even vapor concentrations may immediately penetrate the skin. A person’s clothing can release sarin for about 30 minutes after it has come in contact with sarin gas, which can lead to exposure of other people.^[28]

 

 

Coming to the scene with gas masks and not knowing what type of gas was used I would say is following the correct protoco

 

Sure, but does that give the White Helmets special super powers that makes them immune to the effects of Sarin? Furthermore, if you add water, there is no sudden hydrolisis. The halflife time of Sarin in water at pH 7 is 100 to 150 hours. In an alcalic solution the halflife time is an hour.

 

Learn some chemistry.

[Wuzzums]

Yes, I was in the military and we practiced putting on Hazmat suits.

Assuming you served in Syria or are closely familiar with syrian sarin attack protocol, of course.

 

The "seven year old Syrian girl" had no problem twittering all the time while being in Aleppo.

Did you just bring up a 7 year old girl on twitter from Allepo which is not in a conflict area and which is mysteriously verified on twitter as a source?

 

 

Returning to the matter at hand.

Cutaneous exposure is not an issue with gasses. Please read the whole paragraph before contradicting basic human biology.

And to quote you back to yourself proving my point:

 

https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

• Even a small drop of sarin on the skin can cause sweating and muscle twitching where sarin touched the skin.

Sweaty crampy hands? Forget it. Guess they had to let those people help themselves.

Continuing:

 

 

• Removing and disposing of clothing:
  • Quickly take off clothing that has liquid sarin on it. Any clothing that has to be pulled over the head should be cut off the body instead of pulled over the head. If possible, seal the clothing in a plastic bag. Then seal the first plastic bag in a second plastic bag. Removing and sealing the clothing in this way will help protect people from any chemicals that might be on their clothes.
  • If clothes were placed in plastic bags, inform either the local or state health department or emergency personnel upon their arrival. Do not handle the plastic bags.
  • If helping other people remove their clothing, try to avoid touching any contaminated areas, and remove the clothing as quickly as possible.
• Washing the body:
  • As quickly as possible, wash any liquid sarin from the skin with large amounts of soap and water. Washing with soap and water will help protect people from any chemicals on their bodies.
  • Rinse the eyes with plain water for 10 to 15 minutes if they are burning or if vision is blurred.

 

 

To make my point as clear as I can again:

I said it was a sarin gas attack (false flag, but still an actual attack) because the symptoms of the victims and the methods used to help them were consistent. Sources: your own link.

You said it wasn't a sarin gas attack because they didn't use gloves. Sources: people in the army made you practice wearing a hazmat suit.

[ofd]

Assuming you served in Syria or are closely familiar with syrian sarin attack protocol, of course.

 

Chemical and physical properties don't magically change just because something happens in Syria.

 

Did you just bring up a 7 year old girl on twitter from Allepo which is not in a conflict area and which is mysteriously verified on twitter as a source?

 

 

Bana Alabed was twittering like a champ while Aleppo was under siege. She had no problems with internet access.

 

 

Cutaneous exposure is not an issue with gasses. Please read the whole paragraph before contradicting basic human biology.

 

 

I know about basic human biology. Do you?

Sarin has a high volatility (ease with which a liquid can turn into a gas) relative to similar nerve agents, therefore inhalation can be very dangerous and even vapor concentrations may immediately penetrate the skin. A person’s clothing can release sarin for about 30 minutes after it has come in contact with sarin gas, which can lead to exposure of other people.

 

I said it was a sarin gas attack (false flag, but still an actual attack) because the symptoms of the victims and the methods used to help them were consistent.

 

We agree on the false flag attack part. So far, the only source claiming it was Sarin is the Turkish intelligence agency MIT which itself has helped terrorists in the past. If it had been an attack with Sarin, the White Helmets themselves would have been exposed to it via their skin and as I showed, Sarin can get through the skin as a vapour and cause symptoms or death. Since it is denser than air, it is likely to be around after an attack.

[DaVinci]

He blew up an airport.  So what.

 

So I must be able to blow up my neighbors driveway cause he spanks his kids? Surely this can't be the most reasonable course of action. 

[Wuzzums]

I know about basic human biology. Do you?

 

I'm a doctor.

[ofd]

even vapor concentrations may immediately penetrate the skin

 

As a doctor you should know what this means. 

[Wuzzums]

As a doctor you should know what this means. 

No. You're trying to save face but you're being factually inaccurate.

[ofd]

Where? Vapor means gas and skin is skin, and penetrate means to penetrate. Where is my mistake?