What is in between Pick Up Artist lifestyle and MGTOW lifestyle?

[adamNJ]

That is the question

 

[Boss]

Well, I believe a Pickup artist is someone who goes out of their way to try to pick up women while a MGTOW doesn't actively pursue picking up women.(Some MGTOW still let it happen "naturally" while some dont deal with women at all)

I have friends who claim to be these. Me personally tho, I probably wouldnt label myself either. I do my own thing and if I see a woman who seems interesting I will probably pursue her. 

 

[Meister]

I've been a monk for 13 years now and I only recently discovered the term "mgtow" and "pick up artist".

I've bascially been going my own way all my life.

PUA has absolutely no connection to mgtow and a lot of these self declared mgtows on the internet seem obsessed with what women do and think. They hardly go their own way if you ask me.

[adamNJ]

On 4/21/2017 at 3:34 PM, Meister said:

I've been a monk for 13 years now and I only recently discovered the term "mgtow" and "pick up artist".

I've bascially been going my own way all my life.

PUA has absolutely no connection to mgtow and a lot of these self declared mgtows on the internet seem obsessed with what women do and think. They hardly go their own way if you ask me.

 

That's interesting, Why did you become a Monk?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

2 hours ago, adamNJ said:

That's interesting, Why did you become a Monk?

I don't think he was being literal (to answer for him).

 

I have noticed some MGTOWs becoming PUAs but I don't think that's the rule.

If I had to divide MGTOW into thirds, they'd pretty much be #1; Hardcore MGTOW: a man who chooses to completely avoid women romantically and perhaps casually as well. Some may be homosexual. #2: Moderate MGTOW: they're aware of how bad a lot of women can be; how the legal system is built against them; and therefore date carefully and make sure not to wander off into traps. I don't call myself a MGTOW but I'd say this is where I am on the specturm. #3: Satyriasis MGTOW: A man who chooses to only date women for sex. Generally not what some could call an Orthodox MGTOW since his sticking his wick in holes freely This ought to contradict the knowledge of dangerous women he'd have--he's endangering himself knowingly and yet claims to be in control when he's not. This kind of MGTOW is the one most easily conflated with Pick-Up-Artist.

 

 

[plato85]

There's a few different ideas of love in Western philosophy.

Romantic love - This fairy tale idea of love at first sight. In the old days it was used as an excuse for shot gun weddings. It's an ideal pushed by Hollywood as an excuse to justify a culture of casual sex.

Bourgeois love - This was the old worlds Bourgeoisie ideal of matching based on wealth and power.

Western love - "This assumes that personailities are dynamic and flexible things formed largely by experiences in the past. Love and marriage between such personalities are, like everything in the Western outlook, diverse, imperfect, adjustible, creative, cooperative, and changeable. The Western idea assumes that a couple comes together for many reasons (sex, loneliness, common interests, similar background, economic and social cooperation, reciprocal admiration of character traits, and other reasons). It futher assumes that their whole relationship will be a slow process of getting to know each other and mutual adjustment - a process that may never end. The need for constant adjustment shows the Western recognition that nothing, even love is final or perfect. This is also shown by recognition that love and marriage are never total and all-absorbing, that each partner remains an idependent personality with the right to an independent life. (This is found throughout the Western tradiction and goes back to the Christian belief that each person is a separate soul with its own, ultimate separate, fate)." - Quigley (Tragedy and Hope)

[AshW8]

My impression is that those two communities often clash. PUA's are about going after women actively, at least for sex. While strong MGTOW is all about avoiding even playing the game. I think the main cross over is: what happens when a MGTOW has a woman who throws herself at him? I imagine their tune often changes a little. Sex is a powerful drive.

[Meister]

7 hours ago, AshW8 said:

My impression is that those two communities often clash. PUA's are about going after women actively, at least for sex. While strong MGTOW is all about avoiding even playing the game. I think the main cross over is: what happens when a MGTOW has a woman who throws herself at him? I imagine their tune often changes a little. Sex is a powerful drive.

If someone claims to be mgtow and then changes his tune because some woman throws herself at him, then he wasn't going his own way in the first place.

I've had women throw themselves at me many times.

I think you are getting confused by losers who are taking their ball and going home because women reject them. Then they claim to be mgtow   and start hating on them.

[Meister]

On 4/24/2017 at 5:01 AM, adamNJ said:

That's interesting, Why did you become a Monk?

Freedom. I don't see the point of being a socialized wage slave.

[Meister]

On 4/24/2017 at 6:13 AM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I don't think he was being literal (to answer for him).

No. Quite literaly. 

I even lived in a monastery for a while.

[Xcalyba]

On 24/04/2017 at 4:47 PM, plato85 said:

There's a few different ideas of love in Western philosophy.

Western love - "This assumes that personailities are dynamic and flexible things formed largely by experiences in the past. Love and marriage between such personalities are, like everything in the Western outlook, diverse, imperfect, adjustible, creative, cooperative, and changeable. The Western idea assumes that a couple comes together for many reasons (sex, loneliness, common interests, similar background, economic and social cooperation, reciprocal admiration of character traits, and other reasons). It futher assumes that their whole relationship will be a slow process of getting to know each other and mutual adjustment - a process that may never end. The need for constant adjustment shows the Western recognition that nothing, even love is final or perfect. This is also shown by recognition that love and marriage are never total and all-absorbing, that each partner remains an idependent personality with the right to an independent life. (This is found throughout the Western tradiction and goes back to the Christian belief that each person is a separate soul with its own, ultimate separate, fate)." - Quigley (Tragedy and Hope)

 

7

Right on. When I meet a beautiful woman, I honestly avoid any impulses of lust/attraction and just seek a friendship. This works really well, everyone should try it. Slow and steady wins every time. And don't even hint at your attraction. This will be shown through your friendship. And I don't mean friend zone yourself. But friend zone HER. She will love you in no time! Be a good friend.

Oh and I think this might be the in between your looking for. Not PUA not MGTOW.

I am really baffled by MGTOW. I love women <3

[AccuTron]

 

8 hours ago, Xcalyba said:

I am really baffled by MGTOW. I love women <3

Your icon image is small and blurry, but you look like you are still young, 20-30's.  Make a calendar note for ten years from now and see if you are then still baffled. 

[Meister]

On 4/25/2017 at 10:32 AM, Xcalyba said:

Right on. When I meet a beautiful woman, I honestly avoid any impulses of lust/attraction and just seek a friendship. This works really well, everyone should try it. Slow and steady wins every time. And don't even hint at your attraction. This will be shown through your friendship. And I don't mean friend zone yourself. But friend zone HER. She will love you in no time! Be a good friend.

Oh and I think this might be the in between your looking for. Not PUA not MGTOW.

I am really baffled by MGTOW. I love women <3

I love women too. That has nothing to do with mgtow.

Your advice just sounds like basic pickup stuff. mgtow has absolutely nothing to do with getting women to love you.

I don't know how you guys go from "men going their own way" to "how to be behave so women like you".  Those two things aren't even connected in any way.

[Laforge]

@Meister, why not settle for a woman who completely shares your political ideas?

Objecting to women politically/in the abstract doesn't justify ostracizing all individual women imho. I think Stefan's life provides a good example of this.
Same with racism, i object to the political idea of African men coming to Europe, because it leaves their county in a greater mess. Or they come here to get welfare. Does that position automatically mean i must ostracize every individual African man i see? Even if i can convince him of my position and he actively helps me stop other Africans from coming to Europe?

In evolution it doesn't matter much if you get killed or don't reproduce at all. I think you're smart. The planet could use some more of that. If you don't, others (Muslims/Africans) will take your place.

[Meister]

14 hours ago, Laforge said:

@Meister, why not settle for a woman who completely shares your political ideas?

Because of the laws.

Once her hypergamy kicks in she can file for divorce, sue me for alimony, take half my shit and my children away. There would be nothing I could do about it. 80% of divorces are initiated by women ....

Procreating and marrying is like playing Russian roulette with only one empty chamber. If you wanna play those odds, then good luck with that. I'll pass.

 

And again: I don't ostracize women. I deal with women daily and some are excellent at their job. I simply don't deal with them romantically. 

[AccuTron]

Note my edit:  "But friend zone HER. She will love you(r ability to do stuff for her) in no time!"

[Danske]

PUA and MGTOW are both expressions of the same dysfunction. Fear of bonding with a woman.

[Laforge]

On 5/1/2017 at 10:54 AM, Meister said:

Because of the laws.

Once her hypergamy kicks in she can file for divorce, sue me for alimony, take half my shit and my children away. There would be nothing I could do about it. 80% of divorces are initiated by women ....

Procreating and marrying is like playing Russian roulette with only one empty chamber. If you wanna play those odds, then good luck with that. I'll pass.

 

And again: I don't ostracize women. I deal with women daily and some are excellent at their job. I simply don't deal with them romantically. 

Very interesting point of view, I feel like I understand you a lot better now. I guess I'm lucky in that respect to live in the EU, the government doesn't steal everything from men when divorced, it just does it all the time haha (not funny).

Maybe pretty subjective preference, but I would recommend: don't allow the law to be such a controlling factor in your life.
- I don't want to be a wage slave for the welfare state & military industrial complex. What's the alternative: be criminal or poor guy?
- I don't want the US government to potentially grab half my stuff when divorced. What's the alternative? Wait forever/gene death?
Additionally, If you're pretty rich and scared of government/female theft, i think there are multiple reasons to hold a significant portion of your financial portfolio in cryptocurrencies or physical gold.

To get even more subjective, I do believe it's actually possible to predict within accurate probability if a women will divorce you in the future. Try to judge how emotionally stable somebody is. Judge the company they keep and how they spend their free time. I think additional signs to alleviate any fears are:
- Does she do competitive sports or thrive in that kind of environment? (yes = good, some sense of built-in morality/fairness/peer reasoning)
- Is she super spontaneous and open with you but very shy/conservative with strangers? Doesn't like going to bars. (sign of more K than r selection, investor type)
- Is slightly less attractive than average or slightly older. (ready to settle down, tired of being used/tired of all the shallow one night stands, feels the fertility clock ticking)
- Little makeup/sexy outfits or only for you. (investor type instead of tester type)

 

[AccuTron]

23 hours ago, Danske said:

PUA and MGTOW are both expressions of the same dysfunction. Fear of bonding with a woman.

Fear of posting bail bond.

[jimofflorida]

On 5/4/2017 at 2:06 PM, Danske said:

PUA and MGTOW are both expressions of the same dysfunction. Fear of bonding with a woman.

fear of waking up and realizing that you have worked your %^&^ off for decades and the "other" person gets half of all that even if, by their own admission, they did nothing to help you at all...

yea...I am at the tail end of the divorce process even after waiting years (quite literally) as she tells me "give me another year, it will get better" (I swear men are programmed to just agree to stupid things women say).

Advice to the young, if it is not a partnership that you both give and receive from, get out...fast... because the State says you are "lucky" if you walk away with half of the results of your life's work.

yes, a bit bitter but mostly upset at myself; mentioned things were not right a decade ago and kept falling for the same line. Who falls for "it will be better" 10 years in a row...wait, whats that hat on my on my head say..."King of Blind Believers".

 

[Meister]

On 5/4/2017 at 10:01 PM, Laforge said:

Very interesting point of view, I feel like I understand you a lot better now. I guess I'm lucky in that respect to live in the EU, the government doesn't steal everything from men when divorced, it just does it all the time haha (not funny).

Maybe pretty subjective preference, but I would recommend: don't allow the law to be such a controlling factor in your life.
- I don't want to be a wage slave for the welfare state & military industrial complex. What's the alternative: be criminal or poor guy?
- I don't want the US government to potentially grab half my stuff when divorced. What's the alternative? Wait forever/gene death?
Additionally, If you're pretty rich and scared of government/female theft, i think there are multiple reasons to hold a significant portion of your financial portfolio in cryptocurrencies or physical gold.

To get even more subjective, I do believe it's actually possible to predict within accurate probability if a women will divorce you in the future. Try to judge how emotionally stable somebody is. Judge the company they keep and how they spend their free time. I think additional signs to alleviate any fears are:
- Does she do competitive sports or thrive in that kind of environment? (yes = good, some sense of built-in morality/fairness/peer reasoning)
- Is she super spontaneous and open with you but very shy/conservative with strangers? Doesn't like going to bars. (sign of more K than r selection, investor type)
- Is slightly less attractive than average or slightly older. (ready to settle down, tired of being used/tired of all the shallow one night stands, feels the fertility clock ticking)
- Little makeup/sexy outfits or only for you. (investor type instead of tester type)

 

I've been mgtow since way before the term was coined and some of those self declared "mgtow"-guys on the internet are truly pathetic.

They keep on complaining about women and what women think and what women want ...

It appears to me they are just losers who can't actually get a woman to want to pairbond with them and now they are whining about women all day.

I just find romantic relationships with women annoying, dangerous, time consuming and ultimately pointless.

I'm my own boss and the master of my life as good as that is possible at the moment. 

Why would I not want to be like that? There is no disadvantage to the mgtow lifestyle.

[meetjoeblack]

To answer the question that TS made; you got pickup which is essentially mass approaching women; boarder line spamming tons of women interest. MGTOW is pretty much cutting off yourself from women as a utility, avoiding marriage/LTR live in girlfriends, and mostly, casual hookups at best. What is in between this is RooshV/Neo-Masculinity. Basically, its tidbits of both worlds, combining the tenants of pickup and MGTOW; maximizing your SMV, resources, getting pussy, and yet, avoiding being a utility as well through state marriage and being roped into monogamy.

I am sort of a purple pill(er). I have not sworn off marriage. I seek it but, my blasted genes will get me into trouble. Options that pursue me are usually not the most ideal; women with shitty aesthetics or party girls, young girls, college girls, single moms, baby rabies, etc. Needless to say, I tread lightly, I don't ever raw dog warrior, and I am very particular about my activity. I fear being cucked so, I am very specific about my expectations of what is and isn't acceptable. I still try my best to just go with the flow and then, be specific about anything I am not pleased with or think is unacceptable.

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 8:59 PM, jimofflorida said:

fear of waking up and realizing that you have worked your %^&^ off for decades and the "other" person gets half of all that even if, by their own admission, they did nothing to help you at all...

yea...I am at the tail end of the divorce process even after waiting years (quite literally) as she tells me "give me another year, it will get better" (I swear men are programmed to just agree to stupid things women say).

Advice to the young, if it is not a partnership that you both give and receive from, get out...fast... because the State says you are "lucky" if you walk away with half of the results of your life's work.

yes, a bit bitter but mostly upset at myself; mentioned things were not right a decade ago and kept falling for the same line. Who falls for "it will be better" 10 years in a row...wait, whats that hat on my on my head say..."King of Blind Believers".

 

I am a huge fan of FDR and Stefan. I do think marriage is ideally the route to go especially for children and a better thriving society. GIVEN the entitlement of women, the 'sloot gonna sloot' pandemic of women during SMV, the fallout of baby rabies when the bad boys stop coming around, and some cuck/beta is suppose to raise her babies is just solve everything is a losing feat.

 

Again, I disagree with Stefan here on the push for marriage UNTIL REFORM. Furthermore, I disagree with Stefan with respect to PUA/PICKUP. Sitting back and waiting for a woman to pick me is not a solution nor is waiting for daddy government/welfare state to fail and women to need men again is not an argument. Its also not an argument to deem dating younger as "creepy." I could give a damn what anybody thinks. I will choose youth and build that LTR with a good woman over baby rabies after SMV cratered.

 

Yes, NAWALTs like Lauren Southern or ROAMING Millennial exist but again, so few and far between. It leaves a significant portion of men behind the eight ball.

 

My fucking genes want to spread. Still, as a buddy pointed out to me; for me to procreate; I AM MAKING A FUCKING COPY OF ANOTHER PERSON.

If this woman is a fucking disaster, half of that I don't want mixing with me my genes. I am very conservative and have been that way but, I crave sex and female attention yet, I know how dangerous it can be.

 

The solution I found is YOUTH. Women during SMV, 18-23, unless she is willing to be in a LTR, travel, build a solid foundation with me, THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCUSS OR TALK ABOUT. Women more my own age have kids from different men, have spend their SMV running through dudes, and posting blogs about feminism.

 

 

I am very hopeful that Stefan can provide me a solution; a route and in the meantime, I intend to practice self knowledge; awareness, and free thinking. I want to explore my consciousness but, I am well aware, things are not orderly, it can get chaotic, and I wont be party to this madness. No thanks.

 

Good luck mate.

[jroseland]

The big difference is that...

PUAs are doers/practitioners

MGTOWS are complainers/theorists

Traveling the world I've met a lot of PUAs and almost categorically they are action oriented

• They go out multiple times a week to hit on girls
• They go to the gym
• They are serious about healthy living, meditation, nutrition, etc
• They are small business/entrepreneurs

Most PUAs are genuinely cool, smart guys who are very woke the kinds of red pill stuff we discuss here.

 MGTOWs I've almost never met in real life, there's probably some overlap but they probably mostly a bunch of losers. It seems to me that they just rehash a bunch of complaints about women and society. I don't see a lot of original thought and content coming out of the MGTOW-O-Sphere or the Moan-O-Sphere as lot of people call it.

I don't want to completely discount MGTOWS, their complaints are legitimate but are MGTOWs really making any difference in this cultural war? By definition aren't they kind of like deserters?

Being an active PUA is the intelligent response to the sexual marketplace dynamics we face.

 

[AccuTron]

 

On 9/10/2017 at 6:15 AM, jroseland said:

The big difference is that...

PUAs are doers/practitioners

MGTOWS are complainers/theorists

>>>theorists, like what we do on this web site???  Ya' mean, like "thinking"?  Increasing understanding for better informed actions?

 

Traveling the world I've met a lot of PUAs and almost categorically they are action oriented

• They go out multiple times a week to hit on girls
• They go to the gym
• They are serious about healthy living, meditation, nutrition, etc
• They are small business/entrepreneurs

>>> Except for #1, you just described many MGTOW.  Do I understand by your words that you've been traveling the world while stuffing yourself with as many international cocks as you can?  It sounds like that.

 

Most PUAs are genuinely cool, smart guys who are very woke the kinds of red pill stuff we discuss here.

>>> Woke is past tense of wookie?  Anyway, logic here, if some PUA's are informed, that in no way says that MGTOW aren't.  That sentence could easily remove PUA and insert MGTOW.

 

MGTOWs I've almost never met in real life, there's probably some overlap but they probably mostly a bunch of losers. It seems to me that they just rehash a bunch of complaints about women and society. I don't see a lot of original thought and content coming out of the MGTOW-O-Sphere or the Moan-O-Sphere as lot of people call it.

>>>Yeah, key moment here; you admit you don't know what you're talking about.  I'm guessing you are female:  you don't know what you are talking about, you come to conclusions anyway, the conclusion is shaming.  Rehashing complaints might really be that NEW complaints are constantly appearing, thanks to very many poorly behaved women.  Which you don't even mention.  Yeah, it's a girl.  I am CONSTANTLY hearing original thought, especially from AngryMGTOW.

 

I don't want to completely discount MGTOWS, their complaints are legitimate but are MGTOWs really making any difference in this cultural war? By definition aren't they kind of like deserters?

>>>  Ah, the complaints are legit, yet a little while ago, it was whining.  Yeah.  Many individuals making major life changes will result in aggregate change.  We are nurturing culture with more honesty and less lying.  That will exclude most women.  People who jump from a burning ship, to save their lives for future voyages, are not deserters. 

 

Being an active PUA is the intelligent response to the sexual marketplace dynamics we face.

>>>  That could be restated as "we girls need lots of loose cocks to ride."  Yeah, all those girls waving their pussies around on sticks with a "BUY/RENT/FREE" sign, they are much better off.  Thank you Nola Girl for her words:  "American women are whores."  So PUA are aiding cultural evolution by further stretching out some pussies being used like disposable product from a sale bin?  American women these days are rife with sexual disease; PUA's will at some level increase this, not to mention risk badly damaging their own lives; even the worry is not mentally healthy.  Did somebody mention pregnancy?  I find no trace of intelligent.  The women are treated, even by themselves, like toss-away twat.  Nola Girl also spoke to that, how these women are one night stands, yet think they are still deserving a wedding ring some day.  No, they are whores and trash, and will stay that way.  The men know it, the women with plugged in brains know it.

 

[Sir Exotic]

I want to make a video about MGTOW in the future, but I'll share my biggest objections with the 'movement'.

MGTOW state statistics that ? % of women (file for, and) divorce their husbands, taking half of their wealth, taking the kids, etc. etc. and are completely evil.

Although I agree that a lot of women are like this, MGTOW fails to realize that these statistics are not random chnce. What do I mean with that? Well, when you get to know a woman and she seems great, but in the end will divorce you and take your shit, then she wasn't great from the start. You choose the partner and are responsible for that choice. When you want to get into a relationship/marriage, you don't get a random partner assigned and just have to wait and see what happens. This is how MGTOW seems to think of relationships.

All it does is demonstrate that MGTOW are not deep-thinkers/lovers and only have superficial relationships where it is kind of random what women they will end up with, because they don't have high standards for what they choice, but then in the end blame women for their own choice.

When I met my partner we talked about everything that was important to us before we decided to be in a committed relationship. We have very strong values and high standards for each other and others. We agree on almost everything (other than preferences, like food, movies, music, the less important stuff) and there are no surprises in our relationship because we know so much about each other. I don't know the statistics, and I can't bother looking them up (you're free to tell me and/or correct me before addressing my message) but let's assume that 1/3rd of women are the kind of woman that we're talking about, the ones that MGTOW are 'avoiding'. Are you (MGTOW) really trying to tell me that my own relationship has a 33% chance of failing, and that my wife will abandon me and become this evil witch that you speak of? Yeah, don't think so...

Besides that, MGTOW praise casual sex and short-term dating, as long as it doesn't become serious. This also shows their extreme lack of values and standards for women and for themselves in the like. 

I don't know where their flawed thinking comes from, but I affirm that it's 'mommy issues' that are repressed and not dealt with at all and results in their fear/hatred of women.

[Rational]

MGTOWs go their own way - away from dating generally, PUAs actively pursue as much as possible like it is a game.

Red pill aims to see the way things really are with male-female interactions and what is really happening behind it all. They focus on self improvement and how to best operate within the environment. I would argue that generally PUAs are red pill but not all red pillers are PUAs. Some MGTOW could also be considered red pill - just using the awareness differently, though others just close off and ignore.

Blue pill believes in the Disney romance storyline and has no idea of anything beyond or behind the scenes- living out the fairytale is the goal, even though a lot of it may be false or the situation not objectively worth it. 

Purple pill would be between red and blue.

 

[SnapSlav]

Lot of good stuff here. Basically there is no connection between the two, as they are practically polar opposites in the gradation scale of pursuit of women versus avoidance of women. PUAs pursue them, MGTOWs avoid them.

The reasons why don't really matter. Some PUAs do it because they want sex but DON'T want to get into a relationship, while other PUAs do it specifically because they want to find their OTP (one true pairing). Either way, they're pursuing women. However they don't do like like it's some kind of game; it is a game, and they play it, and practice it, and aim to get better at it CONSTANTLY. On the MGTOW side, it's the same story with "the reasons don't really matter". Either they're losers who just call themselves MGTOW as a convenient excuse, or they're cynics who don't see the point/value in companionship or procreation, so they ward off all interaction with the fairer sex all to maintain their independence. Does the distinction make a lick of difference? No, they're avoiding relationships with women, regardless of their reasons.

So they don't share any commonalities, really. About the one thing they "share" in common is that they're both men, but that's like saying liberals and conservatives are "alike" in that they're both human. That's just bad categorization if you can find an excuse to call polar opposites "similar" through some form of bullshitting. The "middle" would be someone like a PUA who does it for a partner, or someone who just wings it and tries their best to get a happy living without any kind of community to "teach" them how to do it, or any study to research what many have done before them to know what works. Basically, your average Joe Blow is the middle. "Purple Pill" is just nonsense. There's no such thing. There are only 2 pills. You either escape the matrix, or you submit to the matrix; there is no third choice, no "middle" option. What some people call "Purple Pill" is people who haven't faced the crossroads that defines the alternatives. They haven't been "woke" but neither have they decided to reject enlightenment, either. They're "in the matrix". They may choose to take the red pill or the blue pill if the choice presents itself, but it hasn't. Thus, the "middle" is said Joe Blow making the best that he can.

One side uses methodology to achieve its goals. The other side just... is. They don't have special secrets/skills/wisdom/techniques to impart onto others in order to be what they are. They just subsist.

Frankly, I'd choose PUA any day of the week, given the choice. It just makes more sense. If you're an analytical person, it's a lifestyle that takes the dynamics of the interactions between the sexes and it analyses the ever-loving-shit out of it, systematizes it, and weaponizes it! You can choose to study just out of curiosity and never pull the trigger, or you can use the weapon for the purpose it was designed for. The choice is up to you...

[meetjoeblack]

On 9/12/2017 at 9:10 AM, Jos van Weesel said:

I want to make a video about MGTOW in the future, but I'll share my biggest objections with the 'movement'.

MGTOW state statistics that ? % of women (file for, and) divorce their husbands, taking half of their wealth, taking the kids, etc. etc. and are completely evil.

Although I agree that a lot of women are like this, MGTOW fails to realize that these statistics are not random chnce. What do I mean with that? Well, when you get to know a woman and she seems great, but in the end will divorce you and take your shit, then she wasn't great from the start. You choose the partner and are responsible for that choice. When you want to get into a relationship/marriage, you don't get a random partner assigned and just have to wait and see what happens. This is how MGTOW seems to think of relationships.

All it does is demonstrate that MGTOW are not deep-thinkers/lovers and only have superficial relationships where it is kind of random what women they will end up with, because they don't have high standards for what they choice, but then in the end blame women for their own choice.

When I met my partner we talked about everything that was important to us before we decided to be in a committed relationship. We have very strong values and high standards for each other and others. We agree on almost everything (other than preferences, like food, movies, music, the less important stuff) and there are no surprises in our relationship because we know so much about each other. I don't know the statistics, and I can't bother looking them up (you're free to tell me and/or correct me before addressing my message) but let's assume that 1/3rd of women are the kind of woman that we're talking about, the ones that MGTOW are 'avoiding'. Are you (MGTOW) really trying to tell me that my own relationship has a 33% chance of failing, and that my wife will abandon me and become this evil witch that you speak of? Yeah, don't think so...

Besides that, MGTOW praise casual sex and short-term dating, as long as it doesn't become serious. This also shows their extreme lack of values and standards for women and for themselves in the like. 

I don't know where their flawed thinking comes from, but I affirm that it's 'mommy issues' that are repressed and not dealt with at all and results in their fear/hatred of women.

Its as high as 2/3 divorces initiated by women. You can search for yourself. Its terrifying.

I see MGTOW as butt hurt, fucked over by women, by the laws, and then, raped financially by women who jump back online to run through a series of men. Train wrecks. I suspect most did not vet a woman. Most did not date much beforehand and gave the ring to the first semi not busted woman.

I think if we went through what they did, we would adopt some pretty interesting psychological realities, and view the world as a lot more hostile then we currently do now.

 

___________________________________________________________________________

 

I love FDR/Stefan's content. I have binged through EVERY pair bonding, dating, sex, truth on sex/single moms, Gene warfare, genetic ostracism, etc. there is. Still, after countless days of content, NO SOLUTION IS OFFERED.

Waiting for government to fail and for women to need men again is not a solution nor is it an argument. Declaring, dating younger as "creepy" is not an argument but, for me, this is a solution. The only way I can see myself marrying is a woman on top form SMV is dedicated to the LTR.

I am barking up the wrong tree, with the wrong country, and generation. Young women are spiking their ego through social media, tinder, and running wild. Little do they know, new girls are turning 18/19/20/21 everyday. At 30, the last couple girls I dated were early 20s. Women more my age, women I knew in college or high school will come out of the wood works. All of whom are single moms, classic examples of women that spent their best day skiing down cawk mountain, the equivalent of what MGTOW calls cock carousel. Present day, CAN'T GET THE RING but guess what, she has got some victimhood to rant about.

I went home with a dancer. She did competitive dance most of her life. She taught as well. I liked her. Unfortunately, she came from a broken home. Mother lied to her telling her, her father didn't want her so, said female would go boy crazy, and seek a bf. She would do so in a terrifying manner. Needless to say, this did not workout not to mention, the shitty life path her mom followed, she would emulate.

A few years go by and guess who I run into? Single mom. No man in sight. Said woman could not make eye contact.

 

This is what pickup brings. A series of approaches which equate to blow outs/rejections/flakes/train wrecks/party girls/sloot gonna sloot. It also leads to more dating hooking up, flings, sex, and seeing exactly what you like or do not like.

A man who was mentally weak would have given up a long time ago given a series of these experiences. Thank god I never got anybody pregnant or put on the hook for child support or god knows what.

 

I like Stefan. I watch religiously but, he provides no solution.

I could never articulate it and put into words what was so special about YOUTH and dating a woman at top form SMV. I listen to Peterson who described youth as "POTENTIAL." TOP FORM SMV EQUATES TO POTENTIAL!

That said potential will get the ring. Even the girl in another thread speaking about self knowledge at age 23 is of said potential. It just a rarity these days since most want their cake and want to eat it too. They want to follow society with the IG ass pics, the sloot gonna sloot, single mom, and then victimhood when cannot get the ring.

 

My batting average is piss poor but, guess what? I am doing better then the next guy who thinks he is James Bond waiting for women to pick him. Even the batting average is a piss poor excuse to live in mediocrity. Play it cool. Wait. That one special girl. Forever. Society needs these little tidbits to keep order. The reality is that, it is fucking dark, it is chaotic, and what men think women are especially in the west couldn't be farthest from the truth.

Most times, the juice is not worth the squeeze. Still, there is only one way to find out.

[meetjoeblack]

On 10/1/2017 at 10:21 PM, SnapSlav said:

Lot of good stuff here. Basically there is no connection between the two, as they are practically polar opposites in the gradation scale of pursuit of women versus avoidance of women. PUAs pursue them, MGTOWs avoid them.

The reasons why don't really matter. Some PUAs do it because they want sex but DON'T want to get into a relationship, while other PUAs do it specifically because they want to find their OTP (one true pairing). Either way, they're pursuing women. However they don't do like like it's some kind of game; it is a game, and they play it, and practice it, and aim to get better at it CONSTANTLY. On the MGTOW side, it's the same story with "the reasons don't really matter". Either they're losers who just call themselves MGTOW as a convenient excuse, or they're cynics who don't see the point/value in companionship or procreation, so they ward off all interaction with the fairer sex all to maintain their independence. Does the distinction make a lick of difference? No, they're avoiding relationships with women, regardless of their reasons.

So they don't share any commonalities, really. About the one thing they "share" in common is that they're both men, but that's like saying liberals and conservatives are "alike" in that they're both human. That's just bad categorization if you can find an excuse to call polar opposites "similar" through some form of bullshitting. The "middle" would be someone like a PUA who does it for a partner, or someone who just wings it and tries their best to get a happy living without any kind of community to "teach" them how to do it, or any study to research what many have done before them to know what works. Basically, your average Joe Blow is the middle. "Purple Pill" is just nonsense. There's no such thing. There are only 2 pills. You either escape the matrix, or you submit to the matrix; there is no third choice, no "middle" option. What some people call "Purple Pill" is people who haven't faced the crossroads that defines the alternatives. They haven't been "woke" but neither have they decided to reject enlightenment, either. They're "in the matrix". They may choose to take the red pill or the blue pill if the choice presents itself, but it hasn't. Thus, the "middle" is said Joe Blow making the best that he can.

One side uses methodology to achieve its goals. The other side just... is. They don't have special secrets/skills/wisdom/techniques to impart onto others in order to be what they are. They just subsist.

Frankly, I'd choose PUA any day of the week, given the choice. It just makes more sense. If you're an analytical person, it's a lifestyle that takes the dynamics of the interactions between the sexes and it analyses the ever-loving-shit out of it, systematizes it, and weaponizes it! You can choose to study just out of curiosity and never pull the trigger, or you can use the weapon for the purpose it was designed for. The choice is up to you...

This is the path I am on. Been at it for a long time. You get better. What to say and acquiring digits is water off a ducks back. Sex too but, dry spells happen. Life gets in the way. Also, seeing women gradually slip and fall from grace is pretty eye opening as to anxieties/rejection/failures.

Running into women from the past and seeing where party girl lifestyle and being the booty call of the bad boy is enlightening.

I've found Stefan to be overly critical of pickup but, he offers no alternative solution. My eyes are open. Waiting for government to fail and for women to need men again is not the solution. Calling it creepy to date younger is not an argument. It is a solution. The problem here then is, the gap of age, maturity, and commonality. More importantly, the lack thereof in common interests and outside sex, little in sync if anything at all.

 

Women more my age have a shit load of baggage, are entitled, a lot are thirsty, and a few drinks in, sex is off the table (do not need to get charged or called rapey). Furthermore, alcohol is a truth serum. I had a awesome date with a woman closer to my age. After some wine, she dumps her baggage, and BS. Basically, got fucked around by guys throughout her 20s. Once she got going, I hit the ejection button, and made my escape. A week later she texted all pissy by my disinterest. I also think its shitty if a guy is just dragging a woman on for the ride thinking its going somewhere.

 

Are you dating?

[SnapSlav]

1 hour ago, meetjoeblack said:

Are you dating?

Assuming this was directed at me, cause it was part of the post following quoting mine...

Presently no. I'm too busy getting my business off the ground, so I'm putting dating on hold. I briefly started doing "beginner-level pickup" around late last year or early this year, doing my approaches and all that to get over the social anxiety, then I started my new career in April and had to abandon that pursuit for the time being. In my younger years (early 20s) I went through a spell of reckless philandering, and if I ever made the mistake to assume that all women were like my worst interaction, then I might've sworn off women altogether. But I knew she was just a particularly nasty person, and I just got unlucky/careless associating with her. I should count my stars that stealing a couple hundred bucks from me was ALL she took! (That and all the time... and the headaches...)

When I first heard about MGTOW, I was sympathetic to their cause, because they're not wrong about how slanted the legal system is against men in women's favor. But the more I observed it, the less sympathetic I was. (Kinda like the first time you hear about the alt-right, you initially think, "Hey, that sounds like me!" Then months later you watch as it distills itself into something very different, and far from relatable.) Just too much whining, beta-cuckery, excuse-making, and fleeing from problems rather than trying to tackle them and resolve them. I don't begrudge men from checking out, if that's what they wanna do. But there are better ways and outlooks with which to do it than MGTOW. Jordan Peterson may have been a bit too rough on them in his infamous answer about it a few months back, but he wasn't exactly wrong, either...

Luckily for me, my line of work (sales-heavy) demands going out and interacting with people CONSTANTLY! So when I finally do get back in the game, I won't exactly have fallen completely off the horse! =D

[ofd]

Both approaches are idiotic. Practice White Sharia with warbrides and sister wives.

[meetjoeblack]

8 hours ago, SnapSlav said:

Quote

Assuming this was directed at me, cause it was part of the post following quoting mine...

Quote

Definitely was aimed for you. I liked a lot of what you posted for the record.

Presently no. I'm too busy getting my business off the ground, so I'm putting dating on hold. I briefly started doing "beginner-level pickup" around late last year or early this year, doing my approaches and all that to get over the social anxiety, then I started my new career in April and had to abandon that pursuit for the time being. In my younger years (early 20s) I went through a spell of reckless philandering, and if I ever made the mistake to assume that all women were like my worst interaction, then I might've sworn off women altogether. But I knew she was just a particularly nasty person, and I just got unlucky/careless associating with her. I should count my stars that stealing a couple hundred bucks from me was ALL she took! (That and all the time... and the headaches...)

Congrats on the business venture. I am working on something myself. Still, there are 168hrs a week. No harm and doing three approaches a day. If anything, it will be good for you, your business, and be nice to have another outlet in life. For the record, I am huge Stefan fan and fan of FDR as a whole but, the knock at pickup without any alternative solution is ridiculous. How has the beginner pickup going? Its not like what you would think. As in, the shit they sell online, the youtube videos with really good looking women. I listen to a variety of sources on the subject but, anytime my money is involved, I am naturally skeptical. I like rsd. While the content is over the top at times, the push that, you can improve your dating and sex life is about right. Like anything, it is what you make of it, and you get what you put into it. More so pending where you are on the dominance hierarchy and how you did in the genetic lottery.

Quote

When I first heard about MGTOW, I was sympathetic to their cause, because they're not wrong about how slanted the legal system is against men in women's favor. But the more I observed it, the less sympathetic I was. (Kinda like the first time you hear about the alt-right, you initially think, "Hey, that sounds like me!" Then months later you watch as it distills itself into something very different, and far from relatable.) Just too much whining, beta-cuckery, excuse-making, and fleeing from problems rather than trying to tackle them and resolve them. I don't begrudge men from checking out, if that's what they wanna do. But there are better ways and outlooks with which to do it than MGTOW. Jordan Peterson may have been a bit too rough on them in his infamous answer about it a few months back, but he wasn't exactly wrong, either...

Taking your ball and going home is not the answer however, I never got married and I don't see myself ever doing so until the current court system changes. I find it hard to imagine a live in gf at this point but, I have met some good women usually randomly and abroad. As in, road trip, and managed to keep in touch. I agree with you but, if we were fucked over in that predicament, married, cucked, woman runs off with our children, and the courts give her our resources as she unleashes the dogs of the state, we would be pretty pissed too.

Quote

Luckily for me, my line of work (sales-heavy) demands going out and interacting with people CONSTANTLY! So when I finally do get back in the game, I won't exactly have fallen completely off the horse! =D

 

Nice. Keep me updated on both biz and pickup. I like the inspiration. I notice after I get older, making younger friends is ideal because they got the drive to go out, workout, and want to pickup girls. Pickup, you meet lots of women, they have friends, and they have friends. Its open ended. If you talk to everyone, guys included, you wont get AMOG, and you can make some new friends you can go out with.