I dont get it.

[Troubador]

neeeel reading the thread and re-reading your original post I've concluded aside from defining what friendship is which I'll attempt to examine at the end. What is clear is your desire for human connection, although it seems you are unclear whether this stems from genuine human emotional need or an intellectual curiosity. However given how easily another human being's behaviour can evoke feelings of self loathing it clarifies to me it's emotional need. Your first emotional blockage or bottleneck is a low sense of self. Which I guess is obvious. Besides cliched "believe in yourself" trite, and the fact I don't know you anywhere near well enough to employ the right rhetorical tricks to perhaps shift your perspective a little bit in the right direction, all I can share is I can't see any genuine and just reason for you to feel as badly as you do.

It would be easy to view the movie debacle through two lenses, and speaking as having been both the flaker and flakee in the past it is tempting to argue for a bit of perspective yet reading more on your emotional reaction whilst I do think you are particularly sensitive to things like rejection, it's not a situation of your own making. Although I'm sorry to say it's on you to fix it you would doubtlessly benefit from someone cutting you a break and being a little more empathic to your situation. The cardinal sin your friend committed isn't so much the flaking it's the dishonesty after the fact. There are some folks in my life who have added such a colossal value to my life the odd flake or change of plans makes no odds in the grand scheme of things, and that goes both ways too, but asinine deceptions would be a million miles away from such conversations, it would be something like "go yeah I caught it with bob/my girlfriend/ whomever but don't mind going again or watch something else if you like?". Although I would have struggled to watch Prometheus a second time without swearing at the screen! Not sure if Covenant was an improvement!! :-p

As to friendship as much as I trully love the English language I sometimes envy the precision of Ancient Greek, who had several words for love Agape, Eros, Philia and Storge. Which of of course an examination of the interplay of those 4 concepts covers the gamut of human emotional experience. What would make the world of difference to you neeeel is if a few kind folk made you a priority, not forever mind you, just as you got your shit together, but kind of like your PARENTS should have done in the first place! The bitch of it is on one level I actually admire you, as all too often people who have had such an omnishambles  of a childhood can become particularly hateful and aggressive people that harm a lot of people  around them, you by the looks of it have taken the path of taking all that negativity and put it all on you, unfairly so as it happens. So on behalf of the rest of the human race thanks for not turning into a human hand grenade, and is there anything else we can do? Plus I think you are entitled to do a far bit more than whine!

 

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 9:57 AM, Fred Black Fox said:

Quote

You are trying to take the shortcut. Which is fine, if that works for you.

 

Serious question is serious: Have you ever approached a woman you did not know in your entire life? Awaiting for serious answer.

Quote

The wise and philosophical way of changing behaviour is to be curious and ask "I wonder why I have no friends." (or the like)

Again, the post has gone over your head. 99% of the population is following the beaten path. Its teens and 20s for "finding myself" or so female logic would dictate. The translation is, skiing down cawk mountain, running through playboys, and having children out of wedlock. Plan B is now marriage. Children are novelty and women salvation when SMV has cratered. When the phone stops ringing. When reality sets in.

People come and go. As guys get married, many begin to grow dad bod, stop seeing friends, and become a fragile fragment of a pathetic male until of course, wife cheats, and man comes back crying.

 

I hit 24 and suddenly, everyone thought its time to be "grown up." Many guys are cucked, are raising bastard children fromt he alpha male, are married to a woman who squandered her SMV, would never give him the time a day in her best years when young, thin, and attractive. Now that she is pair shaped its time for marriage and babies. Looks don't matter anymore because hers are gone.

 

This is the beaten path for 99% of man. I know a man. He spent 16hrs working and his wife wouldn't even make him a lunch or dinner. She was fucking the mail man before running away with his children.

[neeeel]

On 25/07/2017 at 7:26 PM, Troubador said:

neeeel reading the thread and re-reading your original post I've concluded aside from defining what friendship is which I'll attempt to examine at the end. What is clear is your desire for human connection, although it seems you are unclear whether this stems from genuine human emotional need or an intellectual curiosity. However given how easily another human being's behaviour can evoke feelings of self loathing it clarifies to me it's emotional need. Your first emotional blockage or bottleneck is a low sense of self. Which I guess is obvious. Besides cliched "believe in yourself" trite, and the fact I don't know you anywhere near well enough to employ the right rhetorical tricks to perhaps shift your perspective a little bit in the right direction, all I can share is I can't see any genuine and just reason for you to feel as badly as you do.

It would be easy to view the movie debacle through two lenses, and speaking as having been both the flaker and flakee in the past it is tempting to argue for a bit of perspective yet reading more on your emotional reaction whilst I do think you are particularly sensitive to things like rejection, it's not a situation of your own making. Although I'm sorry to say it's on you to fix it you would doubtlessly benefit from someone cutting you a break and being a little more empathic to your situation. The cardinal sin your friend committed isn't so much the flaking it's the dishonesty after the fact. There are some folks in my life who have added such a colossal value to my life the odd flake or change of plans makes no odds in the grand scheme of things, and that goes both ways too, but asinine deceptions would be a million miles away from such conversations, it would be something like "go yeah I caught it with bob/my girlfriend/ whomever but don't mind going again or watch something else if you like?". Although I would have struggled to watch Prometheus a second time without swearing at the screen! Not sure if Covenant was an improvement!! :-p

As to friendship as much as I trully love the English language I sometimes envy the precision of Ancient Greek, who had several words for love Agape, Eros, Philia and Storge. Which of of course an examination of the interplay of those 4 concepts covers the gamut of human emotional experience. What would make the world of difference to you neeeel is if a few kind folk made you a priority, not forever mind you, just as you got your shit together, but kind of like your PARENTS should have done in the first place! The bitch of it is on one level I actually admire you, as all too often people who have had such an omnishambles  of a childhood can become particularly hateful and aggressive people that harm a lot of people  around them, you by the looks of it have taken the path of taking all that negativity and put it all on you, unfairly so as it happens. So on behalf of the rest of the human race thanks for not turning into a human hand grenade, and is there anything else we can do? Plus I think you are entitled to do a far bit more than whine!

 

Wow, thanks troubador for taking the time to write this response. I found it quite  moving.

Its strange, it seems like I dont want human connection, and yet, you are right, I do, i think. I guess thats what I am working on in therapy, to connect to my therapist. 

 

My friend hasnt contacted me since the movie thing, almost 3 months ago. To be fair, I havent attempted to contact him either, but it seems like either he doesnt care, or perhaps hes realised why I didnt go to the movie and is feeling bad. Its hard to make sense of, really, although I know he has some dysfunction from his childhood which makes it difficult for him too. But I feel like I have just been cut out like deadwood.

It was the dishonesty that bothered me too. I dunno, perhaps he totally forgot that we were going to go, and I am building it up to be more than it was. 

I am never sure of my ground, of whether my "friends" are actually my friends. I think you are right, it would be good to have someone to make a priority of me, for me to be certain of there being someone there for me, that I had no doubts about their care and friendship. I am not even sure of my ground with my therapist yet.

But thats not going to happen. I can never have loving caring parents. No one is going to help me that way. 

I appreciate your thoughts about me not turning into a human hand grenade. I havent really looked at it that way, as a thing to be proud of, but it is.

 

 

 

[Troubador]

On 30 July 2017 at 10:06 PM, neeeel said:

Wow, thanks troubador for taking the time to write this response. I found it quite  moving.

Its strange, it seems like I dont want human connection, and yet, you are right, I do, i think. I guess thats what I am working on in therapy, to connect to my therapist. 

 

My friend hasnt contacted me since the movie thing, almost 3 months ago. To be fair, I havent attempted to contact him either, but it seems like either he doesnt care, or perhaps hes realised why I didnt go to the movie and is feeling bad. Its hard to make sense of, really, although I know he has some dysfunction from his childhood which makes it difficult for him too. But I feel like I have just been cut out like deadwood.

It was the dishonesty that bothered me too. I dunno, perhaps he totally forgot that we were going to go, and I am building it up to be more than it was. 

I am never sure of my ground, of whether my "friends" are actually my friends. I think you are right, it would be good to have someone to make a priority of me, for me to be certain of there being someone there for me, that I had no doubts about their care and friendship. I am not even sure of my ground with my therapist yet.

But thats not going to happen. I can never have loving caring parents. No one is going to help me that way. 

I appreciate your thoughts about me not turning into a human hand grenade. I havent really looked at it that way, as a thing to be proud of, but it is.

 

 

 

Oh most definately it's a thing to be proud of! People can go several ways with traumatic experiences but two extremes are neurosis at one end and personality disorders on the other. The neurotic internalises negativity and personality disorders externalise it. In truth neither extreme is accurate but I have a lot of time for neurotics as by assuming guilt/shame/responsibility for all their problems they are at least armed with the possibility of positive ownership of their lives and to get beyond it. With personality disorders it's always somebody else's fault and therefore they never see it as their responsibility.

However there you go with a little self erasure, your friend let you down yet even without knowing why you are ready to frame your emotional response as perhaps unfair. Now I am no therapist so don't take this as gospel, but my amateur guess is that one of your blockages is emotional management. Now I am a father so it's fresh in my mind in how I approach my son so I can explain it that way. One of my jobs is to teach and guide him into managing his emotions, my job is NOT to make him feel that he as an individual is flawed or unacceptable, but alas that is all too often what parents do. In an attempt to discourage bad behaviour we punish or sanction without getting to the root cause.

It is never the actual emotions themselves that are the problem. The choices that we make as a result of them can be, but being angry, or upset is a natural part of our emotional range. What I guess with you is that you self censor/erase because you've been trained to. Basically if your emotions are inconvenient or upsetting to someone else you are conditioned to not make a fuss. Because in a very real and intimate way your emotions and identity have been enmeshed so if you feel a 'negative' or problem emotion you interpret your whole sense of self as being unacceptable/flawed.

Take your friend, it's ok to feel upset, rejected, annoyed or even angry. You should give yourself permission to feel those things as you don't have to commit to any action you would consider unworthy or unwarranted. It's also ok to perhaps feel an emotion that seems an extreme reaction to the stimulus, as it's usually a clue something else is going on you are otherwise unaware of. Also a general pro-tip when it comes psychology depression is usually repressed anger. An awful lot of us are trained to think anger = evil, and if we are angry all the time we must be evil ourselves. The popular response is rather than to allow ourselves to feel it we repress it, but when left unresolved it depresses us.

I've packed in a lot with this post which may or may not make sense to you, so please feel free to ask if you want more clarification or if it would be helpful to go into more depth.