Saying bye to Veganism

[PerryT]

I am not even sure why I am posting this here. It's not really a subject that is popular, but I just need to get this off my back. For the past decade I have been vegan. For me it was partly for my health and also what I considered ethical reasons. I have always known vegans are going to be seen as weirdos and somewhat annoying by mainstream but I was always fine with that. I also accepted that my lifestyle would be rejected by my conservative friends. It wasn't easy to walk the walk for my beliefs, but I found a way to make peace with it. Also it didn't turn out to be quite as unpleasant an experience as I thought initially going in.

Most of the time people were baffled by my eccentric diet. Some even laughed at me, but one way or another most outsiders were at the very least accepting. As long as I didn't push it on them they were fine. What I found surprising was, people around me including my conservative friends were kind to me, and even changed a few of their own habits only because they saw the benefits I was getting. I was glad for them not because they were fulfilling my ideal fantasy but because they were enjoying the same positive benefits. 

But then over the past few years, maybe the last five years, something changed. Veganism became really popular with the mainstream left. I was never a preachy vegan because I believe strongly in self expression rather than group conformity. But over the last 5 years as I can tell veganism has lost something essential. It's been hijacked, and has become associated with an entire dogma. I don't know if Veganism may not be accepted by everyone, and I was totally fine with that. Now I am seeing this diet being pushed as the Utopian diet. The bastards on the left have taken something. They have stolen what was a free enterprise, lone individuals had worked hard to build bridges only to have their efforts co-opted by Marxists. I can't tell you how frustrating that is.

I am not sure how many people here would even understand where I am coming from but the closest analogy I can think of is like seeing the thing you cared most about stolen from you piece by piece. It's hard to explain how the message you believed in was exploited. I am not sure why I am even posting this. I guess I just didn't really know why I have become so put-off by veganism these days. So I have decided to walk away from the vegan movement entirely. I want nothing to do with their message anymore, because it's being used to serve evil. I will still continue the diet, but that's about it. And I say to everyone here. Eat what you want. I care about animals but I care more about your freedom. Because if other humans are enslaved as a result of helping animals than I am not being consistent with my beliefs. I hope I am making sense. 

[mgggb]

On 5/17/2017 at 7:28 AM, PerryT said:

I am not even sure why I am posting this here. It's not really a subject that is popular, but I just need to get this off my back. For the past decade I have been vegan. For me it was partly for my health and also what I considered ethical reasons. I have always known vegans are going to be seen as weirdos and somewhat annoying by mainstream but I was always fine with that. I also accepted that my lifestyle would be rejected by my conservative friends. It wasn't easy to walk the walk for my beliefs, but I found a way to make peace with it. Also it didn't turn out to be quite as unpleasant an experience as I thought initially going in.

Most of the time people were baffled by my eccentric diet. Some even laughed at me, but one way or another most outsiders were at the very least accepting. As long as I didn't push it on them they were fine. What I found surprising was, people around me including my conservative friends were kind to me, and even changed a few of their own habits only because they saw the benefits I was getting. I was glad for them not because they were fulfilling my ideal fantasy but because they were enjoying the same positive benefits. 

But then over the past few years, maybe the last five years, something changed. Veganism became really popular with the mainstream left. I was never a preachy vegan because I believe strongly in self expression rather than group conformity. But over the last 5 years as I can tell veganism has lost something essential. It's been hijacked, and has become associated with an entire dogma. I don't know if Veganism may not be accepted by everyone, and I was totally fine with that. Now I am seeing this diet being pushed as the Utopian diet. The bastards on the left have taken something. They have stolen what was a free enterprise, lone individuals had worked hard to build bridges only to have their efforts co-opted by Marxists. I can't tell you how frustrating that is.

I am not sure how many people here would even understand where I am coming from but the closest analogy I can think of is like seeing the thing you cared most about stolen from you piece by piece. It's hard to explain how the message you believed in was exploited. I am not sure why I am even posting this. I guess I just didn't really know why I have become so put-off by veganism these days. So I have decided to walk away from the vegan movement entirely. I want nothing to do with their message anymore, because it's being used to serve evil. I will still continue the diet, but that's about it. And I say to everyone here. Eat what you want. I care about animals but I care more about your freedom. Because if other humans are enslaved as a result of helping animals than I am not being consistent with my beliefs. I hope I am making sense. 

I feel the same way about atheism. Sure, I don't believe in a deity, but I would never want to be considered an atheist. But doesn't the left do that with everything though? No one cares if you're a vegan or whathaveyou, it's the militant ones that want to moral posture that give them a bad name.

Is there a case to be made for the ethical treatment of animals or secular ethics? Sure, but trying to force people to believe what you believe is silly and counterproductive. 

[Jot]

On 5/18/2017 at 4:10 PM, mgggb said:

I feel the same way about atheism. Sure, I don't believe in a deity, but I would never want to be considered an atheist.

 

 So you care more about how people perceive or think of you rather than what is true and rational? The essence of the social metaphysician...

[ofd]

Were you a hipster vegan?

[mgggb]

On 7/5/2017 at 4:52 PM, Ferssitar said:

 So you care more about how people perceive or think of you rather than what is true and rational? The essence of the social metaphysician...

Why do how people think about me and what is true have to be mutually exclusive? Atheists tend to be rabid socialists with all the associated nastiness. I don't want to be painted with the same brush as them. I identify more with my ethics than my lack of a belief in a deity. 

[Jot]

3 hours ago, mgggb said:

Why do how people think about me and what is true have to be mutually exclusive? 

 

They don't...and I never said otherwise. Also, I do not see how is this relevant to what I said. Presumably, you are an atheist because through reason and evidence you came to the conclusion that believing in God is irrational and unsubstantiated. The fact that you are an atheist is a true and honest fact about yourself (even if I grant for the moment the fact that God actually exists) and if you would rather hide truths about yourself due to the fact that there are prejudiced people who would immediately jump to unfounded conclusions about you, then you are either surrendering your reason or at least your honesty to other's prejudices, irrationality and lack of curiosity. 

Either way, it serves their interests while being detrimental to you. I can't imagine how you can think this is a good idea.

[cherapple]

I've been eating a vegan diet for over a year following a major health scare (the root of which wasn't directly related to animal products).

It may be entirely psychological, but I do it because I have enough stress hormones in my body from PTSD symptoms of an abusive history, without consuming the bodies of animals manufactured, exploited, and killed under high levels of abuse and stress. I don't find it appetizing at all. 

I experience vegan food as some of the most creative, fun, and tasteful I've ever eaten on any other diet. Many a meal is like a delicious and colorful novelty. Of course, plenty of vegan food is junk food, and I limit my intake of that. 

I don't care at all for the movement. 

[mgggb]

On 7/11/2017 at 11:54 AM, Ferssitar said:

They don't...and I never said otherwise. Also, I do not see how is this relevant to what I said. Presumably, you are an atheist because through reason and evidence you came to the conclusion that believing in God is irrational and unsubstantiated. The fact that you are an atheist is a true and honest fact about yourself (even if I grant for the moment the fact that God actually exists) and if you would rather hide truths about yourself due to the fact that there are prejudiced people who would immediately jump to unfounded conclusions about you, then you are either surrendering your reason or at least your honesty to other's prejudices, irrationality and lack of curiosity. 

Either way, it serves their interests while being detrimental to you. I can't imagine how you can think this is a good idea.

You should probably read my second sentence since I already addressed your point. Unfortunately I don't live in a world of randian supermen. If the only thing you know about someone is that they're an atheist it probably means they're a socialist too. Socialism is immoral and I don't want to be associated with it. Therefore I don't want to be associated with atheism either. That is why it is relevant. I am not an atheist because it's more or less a political stance at this point,  I just don't believe I a deity. 

[Jsbrads]

JP does it again: