Explosion at Ariana Grande Concert in England

[Thesemindz]

Large explosion at an Ariana Grande concert in England. Multiple fatalities confirmed. No cause disclosed as yet. Conflicting reports of gunshots and multiple explosions as well but this just happened so it's a developing story.

[aviet]

Don't worry, I have it from high authority that this is just another one of Sadiq's parcels being delivered. Just don't make any criticisms of who carried out the attack.

[jimofflorida]

I am sure the news will make sure they cover this as a terrorist act by some crazy pacifist Buddhist monk or charitable christian group...as long as nobody says the Muslim word.

No idea if it actually is the "usual" suspects yet; it is sad but I sometimes you just have to hope that maybe its just a sick crazy individual rather than another Islam related event.

 

[Donnadogsoth]

26 minutes ago, jimofflorida said:

I am sure the news will make sure they cover this as a terrorist act by some crazy pacifist Buddhist monk or charitable christian group...as long as nobody says the Muslim word.

No idea if it actually is the "usual" suspects yet; it is sad but I sometimes you just have to hope that maybe its just a sick crazy individual rather than another Islam related event.

 

Why would you hope the nation is more mentally ill than it already is?

[jimofflorida]

2 hours ago, Donnadogsoth said:

Why would you hope the nation is more mentally ill than it already is?

I do not think Nations are mentally ill. All societies have people that exists in the outside fringes of the acceptable behavior distribution curve. With regard to these fringe people, You cannot stop them, you cannot control them, you cannot predict them; sadly all you can do is endure when they pop up and know that they are very very rare. With something like radical religious zealots, its not rare. It will happen again and again because based on the size of the population of the zealots, there are  a LOT of them.

I accept that you will always have that 1 out of a <million> that just goes off the edge; the comforting part of that is that you just got rid of that "one". When the societal norms of a religion approve of (or do not "discourage") such radical behavior (Islam) there are hundreds waiting to take the place of such individuals. So in this case it looks like it is a terrorist act, the media will downplay it, as the Muslim mayor of London will probably say "you just need to get used to it  or we could enact Sharia Law which may help keep us all safe".

[bl4k]

5 hours ago, aviet said:

Don't worry, I have it from high authority that this is just another one of Sadiq's parcels being delivered. Just don't make any criticisms of who carried out the attack.

Disgusting.

[A4E]

I am thinking it is a response to Trumps speech in Saudi Arabia.

[DaVinci]

7 hours ago, A4E said:

I am thinking it is a response to Trumps speech in Saudi Arabia.

You have to wonder how that's a "response". It's like they are begging for retaliation. 

[S1988]

And why would the bomber target England, particularly at a non-political event, if the speech took place in Saudi Arabia? That doesn't make sense.

[Soulfire]

This might be a long one, and I apologize in advance for that. Also, if I get hit points on my account for this, I don't really care. I have something to say.

This morning, when I heard on the news that it was a guy with an Arabic-sounding name who committed the bombing, I swear to God I thought to myself, "Muslim". I was SO ashamed, totally disgusted with myself. As if my brain were just on autopilot and thinking that it would have been a Muslim to conduct those bombings. Kids, don't do what my stupid head did. I know it's hard, because every single day in the media, there are those stupid little micro-aggressions that add up to a really big problem, directed at the minority group of the moment. Every century picks a new minority group to pick on: disabled people, gay people, people who just aren't white, anyone of a different religion, and so on. This decade, it's Muslims...and a whole bunch of others (thanks Trump), but mostly Muslims. We brand people as "other" or as "enemy" or as "different" in the negative sense, but it's these labels that CREATES the so-called "other" or "enemy". People honestly don't get this and it's REALLY annoying, but it's like saying to someone that they're a piece of shit. The more you say it, the more it gets ground into that person's head, and, despite whether it's true or not, the more the person will start to believe it. It's called the "thousand paper cuts" phenomenon: a paper cut is one little thing, but then cut and cut and cut away until BAM, you've bled out, or are so injured that you just can't function. I am NOT condoning what happened in Manchester. Not in the slightest. I think that people who attack others and especially children or animals (i.e. groups that can't defend themselves) are terrible. However, it may indeed be the case that they are terrible because they themselves have suffered greatly. Think about what's gone on in Syria: can you honestly imagine being so incredibly oppressed by your government that such a large proportion of people choose to leave a country? It's very difficult for anyone living in Europe (at least Western Europe) and North America to imagine this, because we have always lived lives of relative ease compared to those who live in war-torn nations. It's called white privilege. Whites, myself included, have had the privilege to live in these relatively peaceful, orderly nations, but very much at the expense of nations in which these privileges are not at all present. I've made this point on another page before, but it is fear that most often makes us revert to the mindset that we must kill in order to live. But why should we have to kill in order to live? I see no reason for that other than those reasons that are found in a mind that has been warped by fear: fear of death, fear of retribution, fear of the pyramidal structure that our world has become, and so forth. And it will be fear that makes people retaliate, and blame the "other", while in reality we create that "other" by aiming guns rather than reaching out hands. I do NOT believe that this issue is beyond repair, mind you. It's going to take some doing, but for God's sake, people, I have just two things to ask of you, and this applies not only to anyone here who cares but to the world generally, if I may be egotistical enough for a moment to make such a bold request...

1. Put down the fecking guns

2. Stop saying "us versus them" and "the other" and "the enemy"; it's not helpful

And I'm done. Like I say, I don't give a damn if I get bombarded for this. People who feel the need to perform violent attacks are only ever doing so out of fear, which comes out as aggression because we as humans know of no other way to deal with fear. And that's all I have to say about that, except to express my condolences to anyone here who's from Manchester and witnessed this shit go down first hand. No amount of money or compassion towards the families that now suffer could ever compensate for such losses, ever.  

[Mister Mister]

5 hours ago, Soulfire said:

This might be a long one, and I apologize in advance for that. Also, if I get hit points on my account for this, I don't really care. I have something to say.

This morning, when I heard on the news that it was a guy with an Arabic-sounding name who committed the bombing, I swear to God I thought to myself, "Muslim". I was SO ashamed, totally disgusted with myself. As if my brain were just on autopilot and thinking that it would have been a Muslim to conduct those bombings. Kids, don't do what my stupid head did. I know it's hard, because every single day in the media, there are those stupid little micro-aggressions that add up to a really big problem, directed at the minority group of the moment. Every century picks a new minority group to pick on: disabled people, gay people, people who just aren't white, anyone of a different religion, and so on. This decade, it's Muslims...and a whole bunch of others (thanks Trump), but mostly Muslims. We brand people as "other" or as "enemy" or as "different" in the negative sense, but it's these labels that CREATES the so-called "other" or "enemy". People honestly don't get this and it's REALLY annoying, but it's like saying to someone that they're a piece of shit. The more you say it, the more it gets ground into that person's head, and, despite whether it's true or not, the more the person will start to believe it. It's called the "thousand paper cuts" phenomenon: a paper cut is one little thing, but then cut and cut and cut away until BAM, you've bled out, or are so injured that you just can't function. I am NOT condoning what happened in Manchester. Not in the slightest. I think that people who attack others and especially children or animals (i.e. groups that can't defend themselves) are terrible. However, it may indeed be the case that they are terrible because they themselves have suffered greatly. Think about what's gone on in Syria: can you honestly imagine being so incredibly oppressed by your government that such a large proportion of people choose to leave a country? It's very difficult for anyone living in Europe (at least Western Europe) and North America to imagine this, because we have always lived lives of relative ease compared to those who live in war-torn nations. It's called white privilege. Whites, myself included, have had the privilege to live in these relatively peaceful, orderly nations, but very much at the expense of nations in which these privileges are not at all present. I've made this point on another page before, but it is fear that most often makes us revert to the mindset that we must kill in order to live. But why should we have to kill in order to live? I see no reason for that other than those reasons that are found in a mind that has been warped by fear: fear of death, fear of retribution, fear of the pyramidal structure that our world has become, and so forth. And it will be fear that makes people retaliate, and blame the "other", while in reality we create that "other" by aiming guns rather than reaching out hands. I do NOT believe that this issue is beyond repair, mind you. It's going to take some doing, but for God's sake, people, I have just two things to ask of you, and this applies not only to anyone here who cares but to the world generally, if I may be egotistical enough for a moment to make such a bold request...

1. Put down the fecking guns

2. Stop saying "us versus them" and "the other" and "the enemy"; it's not helpful

And I'm done. Like I say, I don't give a damn if I get bombarded for this. People who feel the need to perform violent attacks are only ever doing so out of fear, which comes out as aggression because we as humans know of no other way to deal with fear. And that's all I have to say about that, except to express my condolences to anyone here who's from Manchester and witnessed this shit go down first hand. No amount of money or compassion towards the families that now suffer could ever compensate for such losses, ever.  

  So you had a suspicion based on observable patterns, which turned out to be correct...and you are ashamed of yourself?  Sorry I don't see why.

[neeeel]

7 hours ago, Soulfire said:

Every century picks a new minority group to pick on: disabled people, gay people, people who just aren't white, anyone of a different religion, and so on. This decade, it's Muslims...and a whole bunch of others (thanks Trump), but mostly Muslims.  

 

So someone( who? a group of people, the media, who?) sat around a table and went, hmmmmmm, who can we persecute this decade? Ah! I know! Muslims!

You cant see any reason why people might be at least distrustful and fearful?

 

 

 

Quote

However, it may indeed be the case that they are terrible because they themselves have suffered greatly.

What is your conclusion from this fact ? IE, they have suffered greatly, therefore .....?

 

Quote

Think about what's gone on in Syria: can you honestly imagine being so incredibly oppressed by your government that such a large proportion of people choose to leave a country? It's very difficult for anyone living in Europe (at least Western Europe) and North America to imagine this, because we have always lived lives of relative ease compared to those who live in war-torn nations. It's called white privilege. Whites, myself included, have had the privilege to live in these relatively peaceful, orderly nations, but very much at the expense of nations in which these privileges are not at all present.

 

What? Syria is such a terrible place, that someone needs to blow up a pop concert? Also, white priviledge? really?

 

[RichardY]

They attacked a children's concert, not a military target.

[A4E]

@Soulfire Appeasing violent people does not work. They will always have a reason to be violent.

[Soulfire]

Yay, gratuitous amounts of feedback! LOL, okay, one at a time here.

RoseCordex: I can't believe I'm quoting him again, but as Stefan says, "To see the farm is to leave it." So get up and leave the farm, my friend. I'm waiting on the other side of the gate. And of COURSE I was ashamed of myself. I'm always telling people I know not to paint everyone with the same brush, and my stupid brain went on media-created autopilot and said "Oh, a Muslim...of course...". And I'm just like, brain, FECK OFF. Things like that shouldn't be there if you're me. I try to be as open-minded as I can be, see.

Neeeeel: No, I think it's more of a creation of what we've been taught through ancestral tradition: that our people are better than any other people, and that our people should fit into a certain form (white, preferably male, heterosexual, able-bodied, Christian) in order to be considered our people. That's not cool, because, as I said, to create an "other", one that does not fit into the false archetype, is to create your own so-called enemies. That's bullshit.

RichardY: Honey, you know I love you, but that's my point exactly. They weren't "playing fair", and nobody ever does when they're brainwashed and afraid. Fear will make you do as you are told, and to do as you are told is both stupid and boring, because you're not following your own compass. I believe in Tabula Rasa, yes, but in line with that I believe that all people are born good. We have to be TAUGHT to be bad. And unfortunately, if you're taught too thoroughly, you'll make bad things happen. No one has the right to attack children, or anyone in general who can't fight back. It's that early, negative conditioning that makes such a disconnect happen in the mind.

A4E: I said nothing about appeasement. I said for "us" to leave well enough alone. Someone has to drop the gun first in order for peace to happen, and I don't care what so-called "side" it is, but because we're supposedly so intelligent and civilized, I figure it might as well be "our side". Are we no better than animals that we should cling to our weapons for constant fear of attack? Bullshit.

 

[A4E]

20 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

Someone has to drop the gun first in order for peace to happen

No. You get peace when everyone has a gun. Or none. But people who do not care about your plea for peace, will most certainly have a gun, so then only the first option is realistic.

 

21 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

Are we no better than animals that we should cling to our weapons for constant fear of attack?

Animals are smart, and they have various weapons or ways to defend themselves, because their predators don't care about their plea to let them be.

 

[HasMat]

Soulfire I get where you are coming from (unity of global identity), but you still have to differentiate practices.

 

Different people carry out different practices. Unity of identity doesn't excuse individuals using shitty life strategies. Either some practices are better, or literally nothing can be condemned. INCLUDING CRITICIZING ISLAM.

 

Your take is contradictory, as it is based on the principle of radical tolerance and performs a criticism.

[neeeel]

1 hour ago, Soulfire said:

Neeeeel: No, I think it's more of a creation of what we've been taught through ancestral tradition: that our people are better than any other people, and that our people should fit into a certain form (white, preferably male, heterosexual, able-bodied, Christian) in order to be considered our people. That's not cool, because, as I said, to create an "other", one that does not fit into the false archetype, is to create your own so-called enemies. That's bullshit.

 

Are you talking about In-Group Preference? If so, what is wrong with that? 

Also, you are making white people into an "other" when you write stuff like this. But thats ok I take it?

[RichardY]

1 hour ago, Soulfire said:

RichardY: Honey, you know I love you, but that's my point exactly. They weren't "playing fair", and nobody ever does when they're brainwashed and afraid. Fear will make you do as you are told, and to do as you are told is both stupid and boring, because you're not following your own compass. I believe in Tabula Rasa, yes, but in line with that I believe that all people are born good. We have to be TAUGHT to be bad. And unfortunately, if you're taught too thoroughly, you'll make bad things happen. No one has the right to attack children, or anyone in general who can't fight back. It's that early, negative conditioning that makes such a disconnect happen in the mind.

They conscientiously planned the murder of children and all the actions involved. Though very few people care and have the muscle to do anything, less virtue signalling. If they were born good(tabula rasa) and were taught to be bad that just makes the Muslim community even more responsible.

[shirgall]

2 hours ago, RichardY said:

They conscientiously planned the murder of children and all the actions involved. Though very few people care and have the muscle to do anything, less virtue signalling. If they were born good(tabula rasa) and were taught to be bad that just makes the Muslim community even more responsible.

I put it a little differently.

They *coldly* planned the repeated mass murder of innocents. The intent is to bring about political changes. Their vision for these changes is diametrically opposed to a free society, reinforced by religious teachings who baseline understanding of consent is incompatible with Western common law. The only possible merging with Western culture they see requires one-sided reform of Western culture. The answer is, "no."

[Erwin]

23 hours ago, RoseCodex said:

  So you had a suspicion based on observable patterns, which turned out to be correct...and you are ashamed of yourself?  Sorry I don't see why.

Why?

Hint: she's a woman.

[Erwin]

Word of advice to all of you, this is what happens when men fail to put women in their place. It sends a signal to the women that there are no men around, so the women have to look for men elsewhere (Muslims in this case).

@Soulfire who will you run to when you are being raped by these people? The same people you have equated with IQ 85 cousin f---ing rapists?

[ofd]

White Sharia started as a joke, but everyday I see more and more need for it.

[Erwin]

31 minutes ago, ofd said:

White Sharia started as a joke, but everyday I see more and more need for it.

About that....

[Soulfire]

@ Erwin, LOL...you're cute. ♥

[Erwin]

@Soulfire, save your arrogance for the Muslims who might potentially gang-rape you. We'll see how your stupid religion of diversity works out for you then.

[Soulfire]

What, my Pantheism? To believe that everything is God (yes, including you) is not a crime. In fact, it's the greatest equalizer as well as the greatest affirmation of human goodness of which I am aware.

And you can save your misogyny and xenophobia for someone who gives a feck. I do not, however, give a feck.

PS: Beck. Just because.

 

 

[killian]

On 2017-5-24 at 1:01 AM, Soulfire said:

This might be a long one, and I apologize in advance for that. Also, if I get hit points on my account for this, I don't really care. I have something to say.

This morning, when I heard on the news that it was a guy with an Arabic-sounding name who committed the bombing, I swear to God I thought to myself, "Muslim". I was SO ashamed, totally disgusted with myself. As if my brain were just on autopilot and thinking that it would have been a Muslim to conduct those bombings. Kids, don't do what my stupid head did. I know it's hard, because every single day in the media, there are those stupid little micro-aggressions that add up to a really big problem, directed at the minority group of the moment. Every century picks a new minority group to pick on: disabled people, gay people, people who just aren't white, anyone of a different religion, and so on. This decade, it's Muslims...and a whole bunch of others (thanks Trump), but mostly Muslims. We brand people as "other" or as "enemy" or as "different" in the negative sense, but it's these labels that CREATES the so-called "other" or "enemy". People honestly don't get this and it's REALLY annoying, but it's like saying to someone that they're a piece of shit. The more you say it, the more it gets ground into that person's head, and, despite whether it's true or not, the more the person will start to believe it. It's called the "thousand paper cuts" phenomenon: a paper cut is one little thing, but then cut and cut and cut away until BAM, you've bled out, or are so injured that you just can't function. I am NOT condoning what happened in Manchester. Not in the slightest. I think that people who attack others and especially children or animals (i.e. groups that can't defend themselves) are terrible. However, it may indeed be the case that they are terrible because they themselves have suffered greatly. Think about what's gone on in Syria: can you honestly imagine being so incredibly oppressed by your government that such a large proportion of people choose to leave a country? It's very difficult for anyone living in Europe (at least Western Europe) and North America to imagine this, because we have always lived lives of relative ease compared to those who live in war-torn nations. It's called white privilege. Whites, myself included, have had the privilege to live in these relatively peaceful, orderly nations, but very much at the expense of nations in which these privileges are not at all present. I've made this point on another page before, but it is fear that most often makes us revert to the mindset that we must kill in order to live. But why should we have to kill in order to live? I see no reason for that other than those reasons that are found in a mind that has been warped by fear: fear of death, fear of retribution, fear of the pyramidal structure that our world has become, and so forth. And it will be fear that makes people retaliate, and blame the "other", while in reality we create that "other" by aiming guns rather than reaching out hands. I do NOT believe that this issue is beyond repair, mind you. It's going to take some doing, but for God's sake, people, I have just two things to ask of you, and this applies not only to anyone here who cares but to the world generally, if I may be egotistical enough for a moment to make such a bold request...

1. Put down the fecking guns

2. Stop saying "us versus them" and "the other" and "the enemy"; it's not helpful

And I'm done. Like I say, I don't give a damn if I get bombarded for this. People who feel the need to perform violent attacks are only ever doing so out of fear, which comes out as aggression because we as humans know of no other way to deal with fear. And that's all I have to say about that, except to express my condolences to anyone here who's from Manchester and witnessed this shit go down first hand. No amount of money or compassion towards the families that now suffer could ever compensate for such losses, ever.  

Yeah man Jihadis are just afraid. What can European possibly do to make them feel welcome? Welfare? Open borders? Disarming? Not saying it was Muslims? If only that were to happen, they would know there's nothing to be afraid of, will integrate and stop their attacks on innocent people. You should put this idea out there, I'm sure that when politicians realise this and implement these policies the problem will be solved in no time. 

[Soulfire]

Damn straight, Killian!

And yes, I'm aware of what sarcasm is. Here's the sound of me caring.

.................................................................................................................................

But for serious, if we want peace, we have to start treating people like people, like equals. Are we not all biochemically equal anyway? Besides, human beings as a species are still 98.8% similar to our primate ancestors, so what are we bragging about? But we're smart enough to be able to evolve past that. Human evolution is significant in that, despite our physical changes, the greatest evolution took place in the mind. Why not use that for cultivating a life that everyone can live? It's bullshit to carry on as animals would, warring with one another and hoarding our possessions and creating false barriers between one another. If people are so great, and I think we are because I'm a humanist, can't we do better than that?

[A4E]

11 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

But for serious, if we want peace, we have to start treating people like people, like equals.

This is what we have done in western civilization for some time. But their teachers in their mosques do not care about that. How do you feel that the teachers in their mosques spit at your posts?

[Soulfire]

A4E, are you kidding me? The West doesn't treat people like equals at all! Several examples incoming...also, disturbing content to follow so prepare yourself accordingly.

1. 1970s: Black woman (in America) on display in human zoo. Woman dies, zoo claims her body, puts corpse on display, inters all remains in 1980s other than her genitals, which they cut off, put on display, and didn't return to her family for interment until 2002.

2. White women gain right to vote in North America in 1930s, black women in 1950s, Native women in 1960s.

3. Tuskegee studies on black men and the deliberate spreading of STDs among them to see how their biology differs when under such conditions.

4. Japanese migrants turned away at British Columbia border in WWII, with the proclamation that "None is too many". Japanese families already living in British Columbia split apart according to surname and all made to move to different Provinces (i.e. if your sister were married and had a different surname, she'd be off to Alberta and you to Ontario, just as an example).

5. Anti-hijab and burqa movements in France and in Quebec, with Muslim woman being stripped at a beach in France by authorities for her "safety". Note that the image given to us in class of this happening was coupled by a picture of Catholic nuns in habit walking along beach in France, no one stripping them. Recent occurrence, I might add. Here, I'll find you the pics...

Burqini woman

French nuns

I'm done for now. Any questions?

[neeeel]

3 hours ago, Soulfire said:

I'm done for now. Any questions?

yes, what does it mean when you say

Quote

But for serious, if we want peace, we have to start treating people like people, like equals.

what does it mean to treat someone like an equal? Why do we have to do this? How do you know that it will bring peace to do that? I have to treat everyone as an equal?

[A4E]

4 hours ago, Soulfire said:

The West doesn't treat people like equals at all!

What about in muslim countries?

[Soulfire]

Neeel: To treat someone as an equal would be to treat them with the same degree of respect as you would prefer to be treated with yourself. You know the whole Golden Rule thing? Literally every religion has a version of that rule: do no harm to others if you would not have them harm you, and so forth. As for why we ought to be peaceful, as I say, are we no better than animals or Neanderthals flinging rocks at one another? If humans are as great as we think we are when compared to the animals, as I do because I'm a humanist, I think we ought to put our money where our mouths is (mouths are?) and live up to what we have the potential to be. Besides, why not get along? It's easier.

A4E: Your statement was that the West treats people as equals and I was responding to that statement. In terms of Islam, no, they don't. And neither does any other religion or philosophy. Except Pantheism but I won't go there unless you want me to. Point is, we can, collectively, as a species, do a lot better than we're doing.

[Soulfire]

PS: I have a -11 ranking now! WOOOOOOO, double digits!  

For every thumbs-down I get, I consider myself the more honoured, because it means I'm fighting the good fight against trolls and bigots. WOOOOOOOO!