A response to "The Failure of Feminism | Roaming Millennial and Stefan Molyneux"

[meetjoeblack]

I think both Stefan and Roaming Millennial is correct about marriage and the disgusting ideology of third wave feminism.

 

Unfortunately, I am ambivalent with respect to marriage given the facts. A divorce rate over 50% and worse, 80% are initiated by women.

Quote

According to the National Center for Health Statistics 50 percent of marriages in the United States end in divorce. Of the marriages that end in divorce, 80 percent of the divorces are initiated (filed) by women.

http://www.uplifting-love.com/2013/08/80-percent-of-divorces-are-filed-by.html

So, as ridiculous as this stat is not to mention the fallout for men if things don't workout, a good portion of the female population is sleeping around, is cratering her SMV (sexual market value) whereby, her prime is used with the alphas and when they no longer want her anymore, the betas are suppose to come clean up the mess. There is virtually ZERO fallout as a woman has cucks/betas/white knights to supplicate to her. She can fallback on the welfare state and daddy government.

 

Until this situation is handled, I don't see value in marriage, and setting up camp with a woman who at her best was some guy's booty call throughout her youth.

 

I signed up here because, I see a problem, I recognize the genius in Stefan's philosophy and wisdom. I see marriage as a valuable asset. I am the product of the nuclear family. I always thought it was the way but, I've been in the dating market, I've see what a mess it is, how gross, and disgusting things are. While I am not a MGTOW, I absolutely get it, and I am torn. I am ambivalent in that, I see the value of marriage, in creating a life together with a woman, and creating something truly incredible. I am just torn by the abundance of single moms, of sloot gonna sloot, the promo for all of this madness, the one way flow education system that indoctrinates women with chasing careers, backburner marriage or LTRs, and then, when desperate, lower standards or have a baby as salvation.

 

For starters, I am happy that Stefan is back in this direct, on philosophy about marriage, male/female dynamics, and the value of children.

 

I've gone out on my shield, I've met, approached, dated lots of girls. What people think is and isn't acceptable is absolute lunacy. This was a great video but, I am hoping to come across a solution given the current climate of the dating pool. I realize that, a lot of the social engineering used in society is to mitigate plummeting SMV. These are not even conversations you can have without people getting offended. Not shocking, a woman who is conservative, attractive, and pro nuclear family. Just so few and far between now a days.

 

Solutions? Thoughts? Routes of approach? I think youth is the key. Youth as in, dating younger, and red pilling the shit out of her before she is corrupted by the madness in our society.

[Jsbrads]

You are aware that most people marry and never get divorced. The stat 50% of all marriages are because less than 20% have more than 4 divorces. A bunch have 1. Some 2. Etc. 

Dont worry about the stats. Find a community that is more successful (sorry, the atheist community probably not the best place to look) and commit for life, communicate, invest time before starting relationship...

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:03 AM, Jsbrads said:

You are aware that most people marry and never get divorced. The stat 50% of all marriages are because less than 20% have more than 4 divorces. A bunch have 1. Some 2. Etc. 

Dont worry about the stats. Find a community that is more successful (sorry, the atheist community probably not the best place to look) and commit for life, communicate, invest time before starting relationship...

IMO as well as experience, marriage is usually fallback plan for when attention stops coming. Yes, many women want to get married but, I've seen it as a nonissue or concern until of course the dating market no longer provides. This is when the girls begin to put on the good girl act. 50% is the general argument. Bro, its higher in many states. Its very high of college educated women and really high when looking at certain ethnic backgrounds. It is pretty scary.

 

To argue marriage is the best route, I totally agree but, the V is aimed at the sociopaths, and douche bags when thin, young, and attractive. When pair shaped, its now time to rope in some schmuck. And like lambs marching to their slaughter, men continue to line up in single file, and follow to their demise. Until an alternative means is suggested, until family court, and divorce courts are adjusted accordingly, what intelligent man with resources is going to follow suit? Free thinking goes a long way.

[Jsbrads]

Marry young too. 

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 7:50 AM, Jsbrads said:

Marry young too. 

I wish I time stamped it. Stefan called this "creepy." I hope to rewatch that video again because I do intend to call into FDR once I better organize my thoughts and work away my own contradictions. This isn't to call him out but, to reason and use evidence based upon my experience. If a woman is not dedicated to a man in her best days, I could give a fuck when she comes around. Too little too late. Good riddance.

 

[Gavitor]

The stats on marriage are skewed, they are taken for a one year period and include people on their second,3rd, 4th etch marriage.

Also what is the average length of said marriages. if you have a bunch of recently married that doesn't mean much given that sometimes people will stay together while the kids grow and then divorce after.

Does anyone have stats for a decade or more period and actually breaks down first time not first time marriages? Closest i found was one from the cdc for 2006-2010 but it leaves much to be desired as far as the information I'm looking for.

 

[Jsbrads]

Marrying young isn't just about getting the best years. 

1 Her eggs have a very real Best by Date.

2 You want to be adaptable. And her too. You will grow up together if you get into a serious relationship before 25. Just don't marry the wrong person just because you met before 25.

3 You want to be young and have energy when your child is born, and when your child is a teen too. 

 

[meetjoeblack]

21 hours ago, Gavitor said:

The stats on marriage are skewed, they are taken for a one year period and include people on their second,3rd, 4th etch marriage.

Also what is the average length of said marriages. if you have a bunch of recently married that doesn't mean much given that sometimes people will stay together while the kids grow and then divorce after.

Does anyone have stats for a decade or more period and actually breaks down first time not first time marriages? Closest i found was one from the cdc for 2006-2010 but it leaves much to be desired as far as the information I'm looking for.

 

I know stats can be manipulated and skewed to portray a specific narrative but, are you here debating women don't initiate an absurd amount of marriage? The entire MGTOW movement is built off the nightmare that is marriage. I heard  Jordan Peterson video where he tried to help mitigate the nightmare a man was going through not because of mental health but because of divorce. He tried to help the man but the court system is an abysmal of carnage. A complete nightmare and the fact that despite the realities of the court systems, alimony, child support, and female infidelity, cucks/betas/white knights continue to line up like lambs to the slaughter.

The lengths of the divorce are IRRELEVANT. The fact remains that 80% or more is initiated by women. Again, cucks and betas continue to sign away their resources. Its pathetic. Even more pathetic, a significant portion of the women initiating the divorce were what; skiing down cawk mountain, running through the playboys, players, alphas during top form SMV. Once SMV has cratered, you got clown college betas swooping in like Captain Save a Hoe.

Stefan made a "Truth on Sex" podcast/youtube video. It depicts the realities of female promiscuity. I was speaking to a gentleman here that agreed with me that YOUTH is key. Then, he dismissed this podcast and female kill count. Mentioned dating a girl 21 with 50 + kills. Deemed them all losers but dismissed it with having anything to do with her headspace and poor decision making. Outlook not so good but I wish him luck.

Once I can better organize my thoughts, I definitely want to call into FDR, and discuss routes towards a solution. A buddy of mine is jacked, good looking, and has tons of options but, he wont get married. He just sees it as a possibility but very slim given the realities that I listed above. Men hold out to the hope of a NAWALT but, if not for a biological clock and for cratering SMV, most women would not change. The change is to rope in some schmuck. After children, the laws guarantee her his resources whether she stays or jumps back on different men. Online and tinder bios reek of single mother victimhood.

 

Its a mess. I don't see things changing until a disaster happens. If you saw Jurassic World; you got a woman running around in heels, "dont' need a man" rubbish one sec. Dinosaurs go fucking nuts and suddenly, said woman is back in the kitchen making sandwiches and taking care of the children. MGTOW has the female chameleon pinned down accurately. I just disagree with the approach of taking your ball and going home. Then again, I am not about my resources being extracted by cratered SMV.

 

Stefan deemed it "creepy" to be dating young but, what is the alternative? The promiscuous woman who cratered her SMV more my age or date younger? Clearly, I will date younger.

[meetjoeblack]

1 hour ago, Jsbrads said:

Marrying young isn't just about getting the best years. 

1 Her eggs have a very real Best by Date.

2 You want to be adaptable. And her too. You will grow up together if you get into a serious relationship before 25. Just don't marry the wrong person just because you met before 25.

3 You want to be young and have energy when your child is born, and when your child is a teen too. 

 

1. SMV is sexual market for both looks/aesthetics/fertility.

2. Not following your point. Before 25 but don't pick wrong? Isn't this common sense? If a woman isn't dedicated to me during top form SMV (usually 23 or before) without any form of ambiguity or breakups, I won't marry this woman.

3. This is the one flaw with date younger and I think Stefan has sources about age gaps and divorce. Furthermore, he called it creepy in one podcast which is not an argument. When I come across it, I want to time stamp it for when I do call in.

[Gavitor]

56 minutes ago, meetjoeblack said:

I know stats can be manipulated and skewed to portray a specific narrative but, are you here debating women don't initiate an absurd amount of marriage? The entire MGTOW movement is built off the nightmare that is marriage. I heard  Jordan Peterson video where he tried to help mitigate the nightmare a man was going through not because of mental health but because of divorce. He tried to help the man but the court system is an abysmal of carnage. A complete nightmare and the fact that despite the realities of the court systems, alimony, child support, and female infidelity, cucks/betas/white knights continue to line up like lambs to the slaughter.

The lengths of the divorce are IRRELEVANT. The fact remains that 80% or more is initiated by women. Again, cucks and betas continue to sign away their resources. Its pathetic. Even more pathetic, a significant portion of the women initiating the divorce were what; skiing down cawk mountain, running through the playboys, players, alphas during top form SMV. Once SMV has cratered, you got clown college betas swooping in like Captain Save a Hoe.

Stefan made a "Truth on Sex" podcast/youtube video. It depicts the realities of female promiscuity. I was speaking to a gentleman here that agreed with me that YOUTH is key. Then, he dismissed this podcast and female kill count. Mentioned dating a girl 21 with 50 + kills. Deemed them all losers but dismissed it with having anything to do with her headspace and poor decision making. Outlook not so good but I wish him luck.

Once I can better organize my thoughts, I definitely want to call into FDR, and discuss routes towards a solution. A buddy of mine is jacked, good looking, and has tons of options but, he wont get married. He just sees it as a possibility but very slim given the realities that I listed above. Men hold out to the hope of a NAWALT but, if not for a biological clock and for cratering SMV, most women would not change. The change is to rope in some schmuck. After children, the laws guarantee her his resources whether she stays or jumps back on different men. Online and tinder bios reek of single mother victimhood.

 

Its a mess. I don't see things changing until a disaster happens. If you saw Jurassic World; you got a woman running around in heels, "dont' need a man" rubbish one sec. Dinosaurs go fucking nuts and suddenly, said woman is back in the kitchen making sandwiches and taking care of the children. MGTOW has the female chameleon pinned down accurately. I just disagree with the approach of taking your ball and going home. Then again, I am not about my resources being extracted by cratered SMV.

 

Stefan deemed it "creepy" to be dating young but, what is the alternative? The promiscuous woman who cratered her SMV more my age or date younger? Clearly, I will date younger.

Where did i say anything about length of divorce? I said length of marriage. And it is important because if you actually had a 50 year study showing how long first time marriages last you'd likely find that very few last at all. I don't have that data so it's possible my assumption could be wrong. The thing is we don't have that data, and if we do I can't find it and would be grateful if someone could show me.

The primary issue with marriage is the fact that the laws are one sided, if those laws were removed then how long a marriage lasts would be irrelevant since the woman would no longer be able to use the state to destroy the man and steal his property.

Remove womens ability to invoke state force in a relationship and the problem goes away.

[meetjoeblack]

3 hours ago, Gavitor said:

Where did i say anything about length of divorce? I said length of marriage. And it is important because if you actually had a 50 year study showing how long first time marriages last you'd likely find that very few last at all. I don't have that data so it's possible my assumption could be wrong. The thing is we don't have that data, and if we do I can't find it and would be grateful if someone could show me.

The primary issue with marriage is the fact that the laws are one sided, if those laws were removed then how long a marriage lasts would be irrelevant since the woman would no longer be able to use the state to destroy the man and steal his property.

Remove womens ability to invoke state force in a relationship and the problem goes away.

Again, IRRELEVANT since women leave 80% of the time and extract male resources.

For once, it would be nice to hear; HE WAS A GOOD MAN. WE TRIED. IT DID NOT WORK. HE IS A GOOD FATHER> No its always, "that dead beat only gives me X amount of money. FUCK OFF!

 

Again, top form SMV or GTFO!

 

I agree with your second point and third point on laws. Until this changes, marriage has absolutely ZERO VALUE for men. Its for the children but, since, women will leave 80% of the time and jump back on the cock carousel, online bio reading, "PROUD SINGLE MOM," this is not something any man with any resources should sign up for. If you live in a state whereby common law equates to marriage, move out of state or no live in gf which is what I practice at the moment.

 

I cannot find a solution but, approach a lot, funnel through women, and vet for a good one. If she is no good, next, and approach some more. Youth to me is key. If she can acquire the bigger better prize in SMV so be it. The sec SMV craters, I wont be there.

[Jsbrads]

Gavitor & Joe Black

firstly, only 50ish%* of marriages end in divorce. Not 80%. 

Most First Time Marriages don't end in divorce. They don't end. Well I suppose someone dies eventually, but I'm guessing you would be okay leaving this mortal coil after 70-80yrs.

*50% of marriages ending in divorce is very misleading. Imagine 80% have zero divorces and 20% have 5 divorces. 

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 2:22 AM, Jsbrads said:

Gavitor & Joe Black

firstly, only 50ish%* of marriages end in divorce. Not 80%. 

Most First Time Marriages don't end in divorce. They don't end. Well I suppose someone dies eventually, but I'm guessing you would be okay leaving this mortal coil after 70-80yrs.

*50% of marriages ending in divorce is very misleading. Imagine 80% have zero divorces and 20% have 5 divorces. 

Quote

Why Women File 80 Percent of Divorces

Posted on January 20, 2016 by Editorial Staff

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, about 50 percent of marriages in the United States end in divorce, and about 80 percent of the divorces are initiated by women. That 50 percent is often quoted and it is probably on the high side, but it is illuminating that 80 percent of the divorces are filed by the wife.

http://www.divorcesource.com/blog/why-women-file-80-percent-of-divorces/

You wut mate?

I would wager, the stats in 2017 are far worse, and more not less destructive then it has been in the past.

I would like you to provide links to these posts the way Stefan has for Truth on Sex, Truth on Single Moms, Gene Warfare series etc. among a variety of his podcasts/vids. Please provide stats, date, sources, etc.

Are you familiar with Helen Smith?

Checkout her book Men on Strike. She depicts the TRAIN WRECK following a divorce, why there are men not playing into this game of white picket fence for when SMV craters, and playboy stops calling. More men are waking up to the realities that, there are a ton of unstable women, that they are quick to be both perpetrator and victim; classic female chameleon.

Here is another source:
 

Quote

 

"As OK Cupid has demonstrated, women rate 80 percent of men below average."

women rate 80 percent of men below average.

http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2011/06/vox-at-alpha-game-dont-listen-to-female.html

 

So, what this portrays is that, when on top form SMV, its skiing down cawk mountain, its running through the playboys, Eiffel Tower, gangbangs, ONS, FWBs, and when SMV craters, its time to play the good girl act, baby rabies, and white picket fence.

 

I came here for a solution. I can approach an absurd amount of women, I can swipe right on a dating app, and I can go stake my claim in the free market. If I PICK the wrong woman, I AM FUCKED just like the rest of the men in western society so, the question is WHY?

I am a huge Stefan fan. I love his podcasts, his philosophy, and his promo for self-knowledge. I agree with his point on promiscuity, on single moms, on gene warfare, the welfare state, and a variety of other vids/podcasts however, I disagree with his "wait for daddy government to fail; for women to need men again" and "creepy" declaration @ men dating younger women. I don't know if its because he has a daughter or what but, he would normally call someone before stating "not an argument."

As a man gets older, he enters into SMV top form whereas, women begin to dip or SMV craters all together pending genetics, lifestyle, and a variety of things. I wont be the sort of man who pursues single moms or women past their SMV prime. I don't care to white knight or be captain save a hoe when her best days are over. IT IS NOT HAPPENING!

I am pursuing a solution BUT, I am still working on it. The SOLUTION for me is to 1) DATE YOUNGER (IE TOP FORM SMV) 2) RED PILL HE SHIT OUT OF HER 3) Build a foundation while setting boundaries for the LTR whereby, ambiguity/deceit/lying/cheating are grounds for dismissal.

I haven't figured it out yet but, I am pursuing an answer and a solution. Until I find this, marriage is not in the realm of possibility and even the "perfect" girl for me would let slip if she pushed it onto me.

 

 

 

[Jsbrads]

Again, this means that 20% of women file for divorce multiple times. Most women and most men may never file for divorce at all. 

[Mel_NAP]

90+% of people are not brain surgeons. But if I am needing a brain surgeon that does not matter. I go and find someone who IS a brain surgeon. I look for signs that they are qualified for and intend to be a brain surgeon for the duration of the agreement. If I need to find a brain surgeon it does me no good to lament that most people are not brain surgeons. I just have to go find someone that is. And if I am successful in finding one, it does not follow that I have a 90+% chance of dying- I am not picking someone from the general public at random; it is my job to vet for this position. 

There are no innocent victims of divorce (at least in countries where marriage is voluntary). There may be a party that is more guilty, but both people are guilty of at a minimum picking the wrong person. Since the 50% number is skewed then don't pick a woman who has been divorced (just as you would not hire a brain surgeon who you knew has walked off the job in the middle of an operation), don't marry a single mom, a woman with a ridiculously high number, or any of the other factors that you are clearly aware of. 

The solution is to not marry someone who would do that. And I think that most of the men who have this happen to them knew on some level what they were getting into- they were proud to be "taking responsibility" for some other guy's kid, they "supported" their wife having a career, they "didn't judge" their wife for her "past," etc. If it still worries you, then just don't invite the State when you get married. 

[smarterthanone]

I do not agree with Stef. If you are a man, you are retarded if you marry before 30 (probably better around 35) AND you are retarded if you marry someone over 25. Why? Well you can have slim pickings when you are young, or you can increase you SMV high and have a huge selection. And if you have a huge selection, why would you choose someone over 25?

I am just turning 31 and I am casually dating a few girls 18, 19, 22 and 22. I would be retarded to date a 29 year old who is ruined mentally. And I am not even talking about the casual sex as much but that can ruin some women for sure, I think a woman being forced to work and fend for herself like a man is far more ruinous. Giving them big ambitions for dreams that are the opposite of being a good partner ie being head lawyer at firm, getting a phd etc. She should dream about having a family, not working 80 hours a week and competing against men for the corner office.

[meetjoeblack]

On 8/20/2017 at 10:25 AM, Jsbrads said:

Again, this means that 20% of women file for divorce multiple times. Most women and most men may never file for divorce at all. 

The part going over your head seems to be that 2/3 divorces are initiated by women. What portion of those women were skiing down cawk mountain? I would guess all of them.

[meetjoeblack]

On 10/13/2017 at 1:00 PM, Mel_NAP said:

90+% of people are not brain surgeons. But if I am needing a brain surgeon that does not matter. I go and find someone who IS a brain surgeon. I look for signs that they are qualified for and intend to be a brain surgeon for the duration of the agreement. If I need to find a brain surgeon it does me no good to lament that most people are not brain surgeons. I just have to go find someone that is. And if I am successful in finding one, it does not follow that I have a 90+% chance of dying- I am not picking someone from the general public at random; it is my job to vet for this position. 

There are no innocent victims of divorce (at least in countries where marriage is voluntary). There may be a party that is more guilty, but both people are guilty of at a minimum picking the wrong person. Since the 50% number is skewed then don't pick a woman who has been divorced (just as you would not hire a brain surgeon who you knew has walked off the job in the middle of an operation), don't marry a single mom, a woman with a ridiculously high number, or any of the other factors that you are clearly aware of. 

The solution is to not marry someone who would do that. And I think that most of the men who have this happen to them knew on some level what they were getting into- they were proud to be "taking responsibility" for some other guy's kid, they "supported" their wife having a career, they "didn't judge" their wife for her "past," etc. If it still worries you, then just don't invite the State when you get married. 

This is not an argument. Marriage should be for a woman who is worthy of marriage. The reality being, a good portion are skiing down cawk mountain, are running through the playboys when thin, young, attractive. Fallback plan is marriage when the woman hits the wall. When SMV craters and the milk goes bad.

Until the corrupt legal system and divorce courts change along with women, its not worth the risk. Furthermore, with apps like bumble, tinder, online, why would you or any man marry? The same with brothels and the red light district, Vegas etc. Its ridiculous.

[meetjoeblack]

On 10/13/2017 at 3:09 PM, smarterthanone said:

I

Quote

do not agree with Stef. If you are a man, you are retarded if you marry before 30 (probably better around 35) AND you are retarded if you marry someone over 25. Why? Well you can have slim pickings when you are young, or you can increase you SMV high and have a huge selection. And if you have a huge selection, why would you choose someone over 25?

I completely agree with this. I still want to find that time stamp of Stefan saying its CREEPY to date younger. How in the fuck is that an argument? You stake 50% on the MILK HAS GONE BAD?

 

Quote

I am just turning 31 and I am casually dating a few girls 18, 19, 22 and 22. I would be retarded to date a 29 year old who is ruined mentally. And I am not even talking about the casual sex as much but that can ruin some women for sure, I think a woman being forced to work and fend for herself like a man is far more ruinous. Giving them big ambitions for dreams that are the opposite of being a good partner ie being head lawyer at firm, getting a phd etc. She should dream about having a family, not working 80 hours a week and competing against men for the corner office.

I am 30. No chance I would date a teenie bopper. Bang? Yeah. I just woudn't share or tell friends lol Well, I have seen the truth on sex podcast/youtube vid, the date accompanying it, and I cannot fathom the idea of marrying past smv or a woman with escort like kill count. It just seems retarded to stake that claim. It seems new age and following social conditioning. A girl with high kills, assuming she doesnt have aids, I would bang but, I would laugh if she talked about being serious or exclusive. NOT HAPPENING.

You're reaching bro. A lot of women are feminanzis, are socially conditioned, are competing for the corner office with the men all the while trying to bang out the ceo. Women dream of family and marriage after their best years are over, after plummeting SMV, and the alphas stopped blowing up her phone. I remember good looking girls at 18 with 60 + kills in high school. Absolute whores and grosser as time goes on.

I dated this college girls several years ago. Text went something like me inputting my address and getting her to come drive over to my house. I remember halloween stuff in stores so, it must have been about fall. She ended up being a big train wreck. Said she doesn't date white guys. Meaning, she loves bbc. She was a waitress. Typical of a slut. Meet loads of guys and hit the wall by 23. We went out and she would be flirty with other guys or on her phone. I ended up ditching her. Met another girl who turned 19 and I was seeing her. Again, this was years ago. Well, the train wreck I saw on social media years later. Single white mom, 90lbs heavier, and her social media rants were about victimhood as well as men being evil.

It was comical. For me, it was really eye opening because I didn't understand there things. Like, I was brought up to be a nice boy. to treat a girl good but, I wasn't equipped with the skills to handle shit tests. I didn't get the stuff or the contradicting behaviors I was seeing. I did notice the on going routine with girl after girl. It wasn't until I really got going with pickup, I got more options, and saw a series of red flag patterns I knew to avoid all together.

[Jsbrads]

A lot of women says nothing about percentages. 

[barn]

On 07/16/2017 at 7:37 PM, Jsbrads said:

Marrying young isn't just about getting the best years. 

1 Her eggs have a very real Best by Date.

2 You want to be adaptable. And her too. You will grow up together if you get into a serious relationship before 25. Just don't marry the wrong person just because you met before 25.

3 You want to be young and have energy when your child is born, and when your child is a teen too. 

Very well said! You're highlighting the important ideals that will result in a strong, long lasting relationship. Furthermore it's most beneficial to a much needed healing in communities.

I would also add, that in order to achieve all of that and not digress :

1. philosophy and self knowledge is a must, the younger/aided by parents the better. (peaceful parenting, career choices of the sexes respectively to age, inoculation to outgrown determinism)

2. Although I think starting early is better, no one should have faith based on hope and everyone ought to remember "emotions don't sustain relationships, otherwise everyone who is happy on their wedding day would stay married...".

Barnsley

 

[barn]

 

Hi Mel_NAP,

On 10/13/2017 at 8:00 PM, Mel_NAP said:

90+% of people are not brain surgeons. But if I am needing a brain surgeon that does not matter. I go and find someone who IS a brain surgeon. I look for signs that they are qualified for and intend to be a brain surgeon for the duration of the agreement.

 

I like how you shine the spotlight on what's delivering actual progress. I'm having an issue (the topic reminded me) of the effects of 'people respond to incentives'.

What do you think,

A., how should one distinguish between (the women who are doing this) apparent virtues down to feared/experienced negative consequences vs. an internalised drive towards virtues from the get-go?

B., Does the two differ (if we exclude those women who later revert/veer off) on the long run scenario?

C., Could it be (no child but divorced) that women who had a brush with danger and came to realise the dangers associated will be more rooted in upholding the new conclusions, therefore being more dedicated on the long run? (I'm basing my assumption on how the human mind evolved to be risk-averse, remembering what's potentially dangerous easier.)

 

Regards,

Barnsley

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 3:45 AM, barn said:

Very well said! You're highlighting the important ideals that will result in a strong, long lasting relationship. Furthermore it's most beneficial to a much needed healing in communities.

I would also add, that in order to achieve all of that and not digress :

1. philosophy and self knowledge is a must, the younger/aided by parents the better. (peaceful parenting, career choices of the sexes respectively to age, inoculation to outgrown determinism)

2. Although I think starting early is better, no one should have faith based on hope and everyone ought to remember "emotions don't sustain relationships, otherwise everyone who is happy on their wedding day would stay married...".

Barnsley

 

While I agree that YOUTH doesn't exactly guarantee shit, the sentiment is not lost. 

A woman's top form in SMV is YOUTH. 

I would say, most men settle down with the first semi decent looking woman when she has spent the vast majority if not all of her prime skiing down cawk mountain. A recent FDR video depicted a idiot trying to argue she has no resentment in her marriage when she specifically voiced it. Not shocking, Stefan terminated the call shortly after having spun his wheels with said retard for awhile. Not shocking, she is a woman studying FEMINIST? Someone insert a nelson munz HAHA meme!

I agree with peaceful parenting for the most part but, I've seen kids especially this current generation step up to their parents. My parents would have beat my ass if I ever tried that shit. There are definitely kids who step up to their parents and could definitely use a good ass kicking. That Cash Me Outside skank comes to mind. If I ever spoke to my mom like that at 13 I would have got power bombed by my mom. lol

Funny man Russell Brand once said, "The future is NOW, ONLY LATER!"

If a man marries THE MILKS GONE BAD, WOMAN SKIING DOWN CAWK MOUNTAIN, seeks beta male cuck provider once her best days are over, it wont end well, and NOBODY GIVES A FUCK. Feminism freaks out. Laws are made. Resources are allocated. MGTOW loses their shit about divorce/family court, losing their children, you hear fucking CRICKETS. Nobody cares.

 

Again, I like the debate, the convos, the thought process in mind. I love the FDR podcasts but, again, waiting for government to fail, for the state to collapse, and women to need men again is NOT AN ARGUMENT. Moralizing about pickup (more FDR not you) is the same as virtue signaling. Men propose. Women dispose. That has been a way of things. I am changing my perspective as time goes on.

Like, I would attempt to mitigate the fallout, go into damage control, and try to fix a LTR/fling/fwb/fuck buddy. I don't now. If she is sly, a jump off, I let it fall through the cracks, and I keep on moving forward. I cannot fathom what a lot of women think is okay now a days. I was walking through a grocery door today and a woman nearly let it hit me in the face. This is a significant portion of women. This entitlement, shit don't stink attitude, and diva behavior until SMV plummets. I say, FUCK IT. God forbid, we ever go to war, its every man/woman for themselves. I am not losing sleep or going out on a limb for a perfect stranger. Like, that shit that went down a couple years ago where feminists and politicians let Germany fall prey to psychos; if this were to happen here in America, I would absolutely lose my mind. If I did not have a wife, I would be their protecting my mom and that is it. Gf or wife only if I had one but, I will not stay claim to the old 'women and children first.' Children sure. Women. NOPE! You want equality. Front line for you too. 

 

 

I am thinking of a solution but, until the laws change, until women clean up their act, I cannot see myself marrying in the west. I will approach. I will meet lots. I will live self knowledge, explore my consciousness, educate myself through said approach, and put my best foot forward. If a woman is not in sync with this, I will proceed until I find one that is elsewhere but, I am not falling prey to this trap. I know as long a men are lining up for this cuckoldry, are rewarding shitty behavior, and footing the bills with single moms, shit wont change. A free thinking woman in the west is super rare. Its all the more special because of that obvious fact. YOUTH seems to be the key.

 

 

 

 

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 4:11 AM, barn said:

 

Hi Mel_NAP,

 

I like how you shine the spotlight on what's delivering actual progress. I'm having an issue (the topic reminded me) of the effects of 'people respond to incentives'.

What do you think,

A., how should one distinguish between (the women who are doing this) apparent virtues down to feared/experienced negative consequences vs. an internalised drive towards virtues from the get-go?

B., Does the two differ (if we exclude those women who later revert/veer off) on the long run scenario?

C., Could it be (no child but divorced) that women who had a brush with danger and came to realise the dangers associated will be more rooted in upholding the new conclusions, therefore being more dedicated on the long run? (I'm basing my assumption on how the human mind evolved to be risk-averse, remembering what's potentially dangerous easier.)

 

Regards,

Barnsley

I like your rational as usual. It has been my experience that, when women experience any form of tragedy, victimhood kicks off. Stepping up and getting tough, fighting back, and having some courage is not the way of the western women anymore. When my father and sis passed in a accident, I have never seen such courage in a woman, in my mother who did not curl up in a ball, and play dead the way I see most western women. Its sitting on government programs, parade of free money, and victimhood. I am a product of the nuclear family. My father did not leave. He was taken from this world. My sister was not another typical jump off 'sloot gonna sloot.' She had a father at home. She had values, believes, dreams, and aspirations outside promoting the pussy bomb on social media. 

I've been handed some tough cards in life. I don't know anything else but to take it on the chin, to work harder, to be grateful that I had a father and sister, and do the best that I can until I leave this world. I am fortunate that I had those experiences, that I had a father, a family dynamic, and when I lost these people who were so embedded into the fabric of my existence, something was gone forever that I could not get back. Then again, it was all the more special because I had something worth losing and I cherished every moment of it. It is my hope to pay that forward with a family of my own but, I have more self knowledge to obtain, education in its many forms, and experiences to be had. 

I respect and admire your path given your headspace, value of marriage despite previous experiences, and your dedication to self-knowledge. Your dedication to philosophy and truly seeking something of intrinsic value. As I said, I have been listening to Jordan Peterson's biblical series. I am fascinated by the holy trinity, the symbolism behind the number three in many world religions, and the emphasis of the unity of marriage; that the two become one based upon this sacrament. In keeping with that symbolism, the closest to being with 'God' is in that unity of two becoming one since, we cannot become three. I like how Peterson is taking a scientific and doctor approach to extrapolating the allegory from these ancient stories while shedding the light on the value behind them all. I think this value has been lost in our society for sometime yet, many women value it still because its 'her special day,' essentially, another opp for attention whore which its clearly not suppose to be about. 

 

If there is ZERO CONSEQUENCES for divorce, for cuckoldry, for 'sloot gonna sloot,' for skiing down cawk mountain, and for cratering SMV, IT WONT CHANGE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. 

 

I recently watched Reign. A remake in and old tale. Obviously, put on by Hollywood and made into a drama with theatrics. In one episode, a girl who was suppose to be Princess was nearly raped by a spy. By no fault of her own, they wanted to remove her status as princess because of tainting of 'royal blood.' I am not saying we need to go back to the fucking stone age but, the lines for what is acceptable for marriage have not only be crossed. The lines have been dumped on and then some. 

 

[barn]

Dear @meetjoeblack

(Before I start: I had noticed a long time ago but never thought why I'd mention. Until now. One of my favourite movies is your nick, coupled with Thomas N. - Were I a Christian, I would certainly claim he had help from angels composing such etheric melodies... and others Green mile, Road to... etc. All of which are rather melancholic, upstiring, hopelessly romantic, reaching to the depths than uplifting, cheerful or superficial. Hmm. )

Maan, you shared a considerable chunk of your inner workings! I enjoyed... nope. It was fascinating, cerebral, uprooting and touching at times to read. I also got closer to narrowing down some (amateur) theories of mine in the piecing together process.

/stating something obvious while shaking one's head, because it feels unjust./ 

-

Shiiit. That's yet again a proof why life is unrelenting, throwing stuff at us constantly without much consideration of the 'navigator' or the 'state of his/her ship'. Sorry man, that (won't pretend I can even faintly guess of it's entirety) IS tonnes to take in considering any of it's ramifications. Although it isn't impossible, given it's clusterf#* nature I can imagine not everyone 'learning to be a phoenix and sadly burn up', because integrating so much & so quickly, joining the two life experiences together to end up with one singularity can only be haaard, way harder than any challenge I could think of right now.

I will be blunt, not inconsiderate or intended 'dick'. I find you sympathetic enough to give it to you straighter than in some other circumstances. (while I only wish to enable more understanding with my clumsy attempts at times, hope you forgive me and/or push back when necessary)

My observation of (having read at least 5 posts - and I only state facts by saying they were looong...relatively since my guess you could have easily tripled it.) a recurring undertone and motif that I've picked up on, could be summed up as:

'Boiling anger at the stomach of a wearily rumbling mountain, making the locals wonder day in day out whether an implosion is coming, still a few hopes if perhaps just perhaps it might go away. Even though it has been a while now and those who are encouraging defense against the inevitable seems to be more right as there's NOT been much subduing for a looong time. Locals are unable to accept live in constant threat, their once beautiful island apparently turning against them and no-one can justify why would their gods do such a thing.'

I am perfectly aware of me making a statement like this does not mean I'm in any shape correct, &, =, knowing that I could be wrong here. I wanted to tell you my experience of you.

Questions :

Am I wrong to think that you live your life partially as an angry person, at times seemingly endless source of it?

Could it be possible to attain a new state of mourning and if so perhaps there's a more complete integration (absolving) opening up new doors to a less 'rocky' path?

How could one be sure to dismiss approaches or verify the truth to either of the two questions?

Sincerely,

Barnsley

[meetjoeblack]

16 hours ago, barn said:

Dear @meetjoeblack

(Before I start: I had noticed a long time ago but never thought why I'd mention. Until now. One of my favourite movies is your nick, coupled with Thomas N. - Were I a Christian, I would certainly claim he had help from angels composing such etheric melodies... and others Green mile, Road to... etc. All of which are rather melancholic, upstiring, hopelessly romantic, reaching to the depths than uplifting, cheerful or superficial. Hmm. )

Maan, you shared a considerable chunk of your inner workings! I enjoyed... nope. It was fascinating, cerebral, uprooting and touching at times to read. I also got closer to narrowing down some (amateur) theories of mine in the piecing together process.

/stating something obvious while shaking one's head, because it feels unjust./ 

-

Shiiit. That's yet again a proof why life is unrelenting, throwing stuff at us constantly without much consideration of the 'navigator' or the 'state of his/her ship'. Sorry man, that (won't pretend I can even faintly guess of it's entirety) IS tonnes to take in considering any of it's ramifications. Although it isn't impossible, given it's clusterf#* nature I can imagine not everyone 'learning to be a phoenix and sadly burn up', because integrating so much & so quickly, joining the two life experiences together to end up with one singularity can only be haaard, way harder than any challenge I could think of right now.

I will be blunt, not inconsiderate or intended 'dick'. I find you sympathetic enough to give it to you straighter than in some other circumstances. (while I only wish to enable more understanding with my clumsy attempts at times, hope you forgive me and/or push back when necessary)

My observation of (having read at least 5 posts - and I only state facts by saying they were looong...relatively since my guess you could have easily tripled it.) a recurring undertone and motif that I've picked up on, could be summed up as:

'Boiling anger at the stomach of a wearily rumbling mountain, making the locals wonder day in day out whether an implosion is coming, still a few hopes if perhaps just perhaps it might go away. Even though it has been a while now and those who are encouraging defense against the inevitable seems to be more right as there's NOT been much subduing for a looong time. Locals are unable to accept live in constant threat, their once beautiful island apparently turning against them and no-one can justify why would their gods do such a thing.'

I am perfectly aware of me making a statement like this does not mean I'm in any shape correct, &, =, knowing that I could be wrong here. I wanted to tell you my experience of you.

Questions :

Am I wrong to think that you live your life partially as an angry person, at times seemingly endless source of it?

Could it be possible to attain a new state of mourning and if so perhaps there's a more complete integration (absolving) opening up new doors to a less 'rocky' path?

How could one be sure to dismiss approaches or verify the truth to either of the two questions?

Sincerely,

Barnsley

For the longest time, I thought, if the fabric of my entire world got ripped to shreds, there must be some sort of counter-balance to off set or mitigate the damage. NOPE!

It has not been easy. It has been a struggle as has been my experience dating with women. My father will never meet my Queen, my future wife, mother of my children. He will never hold my son or daughter. My sister will never get to be an aunt. I've been a rock for my mother but, as you've likely noticed, I have my demons as we all have but, I am doing the best I can given this life journey. I keep asking myself, what would make this life worth while?

I want to travel, start a business, be financially stable enough to run it from anywhere in the world, and not have to struggle the way I have most of my life. I want a wife and children. I want the white picket fence. Unfortunately, I've never met a woman I would give the ring to and I've never been in love. I did have a gf where I stopped looking elsewhere and I thought I was in love but, I was a teen. First gf. I was a kid. A boy. Not a man. I was infatuated.

 

Could you try again and be blunt. Don't hold back. I enjoy the chatter. I've read Think And Grow Rich by Napolean Hill. He speaks of mastermind groups and men collectively getting together, holding each other to their statement, and to walk the walk. This sort of synergy is practical. With respect to dating, I've recently next two girl. I look at it like the story of the Trojan War. "Burn the BOATs. CONQUER or PERISH!"

That Arnold, T2 line comes to mind; "Come with me if you want to live?" As in, you meet women, you have this vision for yourself, for the life, for the place you want to manifest and make into reality. You extend the hand, that olive branch in whatever form possible, and she either takes the bait or is lost in the abyss. I've lost count of times, women I dated are single moms, fat, low lives, and just fallen from grace. Plummeting SMV, SMV craters, and then, victimhood tangents follow. Anyway, I am really focusing on self knowledge and I can only see myself investing time in with someone who is on that life path.

 

As for your questions:

Angry? No. I wouldn't say so. When I meet when, I am extremely high energy, enthusiastic, and I don't neg. If anything, I could be guilty of being too positive. Then again, I would find my personality online especially here is overtly critical but, it coincides with Stefan Molyneux. The dynamic between men and women is nothing to be thrilled or joyous about. I think if I were to have gotten married younger, I would be divorced, cucked, and screwed financially. I think then I would have gone pretty pissed. I am admiring the fact you did not go this route.

Maybe. I don't know. I am meditating. I am listening to Jordan Peterson's biblical series. I am reading the bible, Maps of Meaning, the Yoga Sutras, Bhagavad Gita, and a exploring my consciousness. I recently indulged in DMT (Dimethyltryptamine). In doing so, you come to realize that, in the grand scheme of things, very little matters. The question then is, what matters? The realization put in check the things I value. Family for instance. God. Making that connection. After my experience with great loss, I never lost my faith but, I became angry to question as to what I did to deserve this faith. I've let go and I've just sat with that pain. Being single, I've had to sit with this, and I've come to be grateful. I came back from this trip in awe. I was overcome with gratitude. I felt born again. One day, I want to go to Peru one day and do the tea ceremony with Shamans. Maybe with my future partner in crime.

In learning about the Yoga Sutras, I've become aware of the obstacles: Attachment/Ego/Ignorance/Aversion/Clinging to this life! Rather then mourn and create a victimhood self concept, I GOT FUCKING PISSED! Have you ever read Power vs Force? Anger is not vibrating at a high frequency but, it is definitely higher then say depression, apathy, victimhood, etc. The thing about anger was, it set fire under my ass to climb out of the pit I found myself in (think Dark Knight Rises). Life destroyed, loss, and no time for a pity party or all would be lost (which is another story i prefer not to get into). Funerals are not cheap. I was saving for a good school at the time. Instead, I had to pay bills, funerals, and make a variety of arrangements. Another reason, if I ever have children, I will definitely get life insurance.

Could you clarify your last question. Thanks again for the chatter.

I feel compelled to go into the free market and dating market. Put my best foot forward and never look back. No regrets. When I leave this world, I lived at my edge, I gave my gifts, and put my best foot forward. I can go out knowing that and be content thereafter. In the end it is more important but, at this point, it is out of my hand. There is that saying, God helps those that help themselves. I surrender. I am going full boar. I sin. I miss the mark but, I am doing the absolute best I can while I am alive.

 

[Jsbrads]

The cash me ousside girl wasn't natural, raising a daughter without a father, in a community without fathers and doing an especially bad job at mothering was the start of who this girl was. Not to say children don't have free will, but she was clearly a product of more than her own imagination. She probably lived in a Black community and got an inordinate amount crap from her likely racist peers...

[barn]

Hullo @meetjoeblack

Please promise me you seek therapy. I did, can't recommend it enough. It's a must, ask any balanced individual if you need convincing. 

8 hours ago, meetjoeblack said:

For the longest time, I thought, if the fabric of my entire world got ripped to shreds, there must be some sort of counter-balance to off set or mitigate the damage. NOPE

Probably it's too late but still somewhat salvageable to realise, I don't wish to burden readers of this thread with quite a few off topic and individually directed messages from here on out. I apologise.

That being said, the main rationale could be summed up here, for last, as:

(All of which are AMATEUR opinions, could be COMPLETELY FALSE AND UNFOUNDED. Nevertheless intended to share ideas from an honest source even if with a judgemental tone but with warm-hearted 'dick-punch' intentions. Disclaimer: at times I can be a hypocrite, hence my liking of this place to be called out. <I appreciate all the clear, comstructive remarks.> What I mean i.e.: suggesting against addiction while, currently, I still smoke. I'm not saying you should discard all I say but I thought you should know when you think about the things I say. I have my flaws and working hard to replace them with more virtues.)

Now, the part that quite possibly will make you like me less... (especially after reading the DM I'm composing to solely serve you the best way I can think of. Quoting, referencing, explaining to my best abilities my amateur views in it.)

Barnsley Please stop running away from your life, I want you to start living it under your own terms(no fog, abstraction but deep rootedness & ACCEPTANCE) , self-actualised not as a result of sorrow, frustration, false hopes, temporary solutions. I think that you have the biggest opportunity in your life you've ever had to take back what's yours and step up to be the 'captain of your own ship, discovering your true direction after finally meeting up with all the deckhand to tell you all that you seem to have forgotten'. You have a team at your disposal! Start listening to all the wisdom each specialist have, work together in unity!

 

 

Sending you the long-winded DM A.S.A.P.

Barnsley

[meetjoeblack]

16 hours ago, Jsbrads said:

The cash me ousside girl wasn't natural, raising a daughter without a father, in a community without fathers and doing an especially bad job at mothering was the start of who this girl was. Not to say children don't have free will, but she was clearly a product of more than her own imagination. She probably lived in a Black community and got an inordinate amount crap from her likely racist peers...

Begging to be a single mom before 16. A lot of women are emulating this, the IG ass pics, the social media diva behavior. Marriage in the west seems like the thing of the past. The thing is, most men are cucks, betas, and will still foot the bills when the milks gone bad. When SMV has cratered. I am making a stand of my own. Unless I find wifey, I wont get married, I wont have children nor place house with someone.

[meetjoeblack]

9 hours ago, barn said:

Hullo @meetjoeblack

Please promise me you seek therapy. I did, can't recommend it enough. It's a must, ask any balanced individual if you need convincing. 

Probably it's too late but still somewhat salvageable to realise, I don't wish to burden readers of this thread with quite a few off topic and individually directed messages from here on out. I apologise.

That being said, the main rationale could be summed up here, for last, as:

(All of which are AMATEUR opinions, could be COMPLETELY FALSE AND UNFOUNDED. Nevertheless intended to share ideas from an honest source even if with a judgemental tone but with warm-hearted 'dick-punch' intentions. Disclaimer: at times I can be a hypocrite, hence my liking of this place to be called out. <I appreciate all the clear, comstructive remarks.> What I mean i.e.: suggesting against addiction while, currently, I still smoke. I'm not saying you should discard all I say but I thought you should know when you think about the things I say. I have my flaws and working hard to replace them with more virtues.)

Now, the part that quite possibly will make you like me less... (especially after reading the DM I'm composing to solely serve you the best way I can think of. Quoting, referencing, explaining to my best abilities my amateur views in it.)

Barnsley Please stop running away from your life, I want you to start living it under your own terms(no fog, abstraction but deep rootedness & ACCEPTANCE) , self-actualised not as a result of sorrow, frustration, false hopes, temporary solutions. I think that you have the biggest opportunity in your life you've ever had to take back what's yours and step up to be the 'captain of your own ship, discovering your true direction after finally meeting up with all the deckhand to tell you all that you seem to have forgotten'. You have a team at your disposal! Start listening to all the wisdom each specialist have, work together in unity!

 

 

Sending you the long-winded DM A.S.A.P.

Barnsley

I am not following much of this post. The thread was about roaming and Stefan's podcast. Given the traumas in my life, I am doing the best to mitigate the damage, and pursue the sort of life I want for myself. I cannot combat this culture outside, not marrying a single mom or cratered SMV. I am not even sure how you are combat a divorce and being single. I approach and do pickup. You are constantly sifting through trash. I would go as far to say, 9/10, expect the girl to be a product of a single mom household. Furthermore, is R selected and reciprocates to said behavior. Even a girl born in a K selected environment caves to the peer pressures of R selected culture. 

Women seek beta male cuck provider for resources after SMV craters. Marriage is a plan B project for resources and children. As for self-actualization, this is a life long project of self-knowledge. Listening to Peterson, he spoke about a Aussie philosopher who argues the pointlessness of life and retorts a cynical perspective on why the bother of having children with all the chaos in the world. It offers no solution but, doom and gloom. Life easily presents this perspective. 

I am not sure what your solution is for the current dating climate which is clearly not ideal for men or women. The dating pool is mostly R selected. Those who are K selected are typically in relationships. Stefan offers no solution but, knocks pickup and has no answer to the current predicament. He hung up on a woman caller who "resents" her marriage. This is what men await. A woman competing for the corner office, banging the CEO, and bad boy who wont give her ring until of course the eggs begin to go bad. desperate hour sets in and on comes the good girl shtick to rope in some shmuck. 

MGTOW offers no solutions either. Taking your ball and going home is not an answer.