Magnetic Synthesizer Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 36m ''you can't make him do this stuff'', and ''dead souls'' Doesn't this go against free-will? If despite all your attempts he will never to choose to do that, how is it any different from a lack of free-will to do so and a deterministic limitation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A4E Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Without trying to remember this video too much, I think the point is that he is not showing any signs of changing, or attempts of changing. And that the person on the phone is certainly not the person who can bring about any of that. People can change. Its just that they might need some other person than who they already know, or someone with medical/religious/any authority to intervene, in order to accept that they need to change. Or just hit rock bottom, perhaps several times. An alcoholic is going to automatically change his drinking pattern if he has no money left, or physical ability to get more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Some people are just unworthy of a soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzzums Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Free will is on a spectrum. Generally speaking the more self knowledge you have the more free will you have. The fact that a person does not seem to have any free will it does not mean that no one has free will. And vice-versa, because someone can choose how to behave it does not mean anyone can choose just as easily how to behave. Given this always assume that in 100% of cases the person making the choice has full free will. If they don't have any free will then that makes them a mindless automaton and we do not apply human rights to machines. The whole basis of the legal system revolves around people being responsible for their own actions and I don't want to live in a world where we get to choose who is responsible and who is not. Determinism and absolvement of sin are one and the same. Determinism is the atheist version of divine forgiveness because people who are determinists are 1) atheists and 2) are looking for their own or other's redemption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Crowe Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 10 hours ago, A4E said: Without trying to remember this video too much, I think the point is that he is not showing any signs of changing, or attempts of changing. And that the person on the phone is certainly not the person who can bring about any of that. People can change. Its just that they might need some other person than who they already know, or someone with medical/religious/any authority to intervene, in order to accept that they need to change. Or just hit rock bottom, perhaps several times. An alcoholic is going to automatically change his drinking pattern if he has no money left, or physical ability to get more. Yes, this is true A4E. The reason for talking about it deterministically is without high consciousness, directed effort, and willpower a person will perform the same script as everyone else in that state. So it makes sense to talk about people in terms that are determinist or certain if they usually do follow the same path. It both gives a kind of stability to life and contrasts those who rise above that base level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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