Where is the European Struggle against Islam headed?

[M.2]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

European. Aryan to be genetically specific.

1) look Aryan
2) act Aryan
3) identify with Aryans
4) be a net positive to Aryans

5. I added the official standard as well. Just copied a few definitions from wikipedia.

The Aryan race was a racial grouping commonly used in the period of the late 19th century to the mid-20th century to describe peoples of European and Western Asian heritage.^[1] It derives from the idea that the original speakers of the Indo-European languages and their descendants up to the present day constitute a distinctive race or subrace of the putative Caucasian race.^[2]

The Aryan race is an idea that was formed in the 19th and early 20th century. The term "Aryan" comes from the name of a supposed group of people in ancient Persia and India, who spoke an Indo-European language. It has been used to describe people of Iranian, Indian and European decent, but later it was used more for Germanic peoples because of new ideas about the Aryans.

1. I usually don't look Aryan. Especially when I'm tired.
2. I guess I act Aryan. At least I seem to be able to share a living space with them.
3. I identify with Aryans, except when I'm railing against them.
4. I don't know what that means. Supposing that fighting Islam counts, then I have probably done more than anyone on the forums.
5. By this definition, I am at the most 10% Aryan. 

Well, at least now we know we can't be friends.

[Erwin]

12 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

5. I added the official standard as well. Just copied a few definitions from wikipedia.

The Aryan race was a racial grouping commonly used in the period of the late 19th century to the mid-20th century to describe peoples of European and Western Asian heritage.^[1] It derives from the idea that the original speakers of the Indo-European languages and their descendants up to the present day constitute a distinctive race or subrace of the putative Caucasian race.^[2]

The Aryan race is an idea that was formed in the 19th and early 20th century. The term "Aryan" comes from the name of a supposed group of people in ancient Persia and India, who spoke an Indo-European language. It has been used to describe people of Iranian, Indian and European decent, but later it was used more for Germanic peoples because of new ideas about the Aryans.

Perfect example of Jewish propaganda. That is exactly one of the things I think of when I refer to as Jewish subversion; it's an attempt to convince us that there is no such thing as the Aryans. Aryan has always meant "excellent" and was a racial designation as early as the 7500 BC (more in-depth explanation here). Since the Nazis, Aryans have referred to themselves with the geographic term "Indo-European" out of fear of being labelled an -ist or -obe.

 

22 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

Well, at least now we know we can't be friends.

No, it means you may not live among my people. And you should be grateful for that, can you imagine how horrible it would be for me to bring my Aryan ways among your folk? I would never fit in, and I would only make your kind feel uncomfortable, and I would feel unwelcome and an outsider (and rightfully so). No proximity, no hard feelings.

[Erwin]

37 minutes ago, Donnadogsoth said:

Wouldn't it be better to have a role model who actually existed?

How do you know?

It could be that you might run into the problem that real people present achievable goals. What do you do when you actually achieve those goals?

At least with a deity, the goal is an impossible ideal. It creates a situation of continuous self-improvement, because no matter how much you accomplish, you have to keep accomplishing.

It's not a surprise that Aryans would believe in such deities as role models. After all, they were the explorers, the builders, and the conquerors.

[M.2]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

Perfect example of Jewish propaganda. That is exactly one of the things I think of when I refer to as Jewish subversion; it's an attempt to convince us that there is no such thing as the Aryans. Aryan has always meant "excellent" and was a racial designation as early as the 7500 BC (more in-depth explanation here). Since the Nazis, Aryans have referred to themselves with the geographic term "Indo-European" out of fear of being labelled an -ist or -obe.

Right. I followed your link, and I think I get your definition now. So if I understand correctly, the more Aryan there is in a person, the better. Aryans definitely spoke Proto-Indo-European, so I don't see how that is a misnomer.

Is it fair to say that you think UPB can only be achieved by the Aryans? Or do you think that there is no UPB?

According to you, it was the Jews who convinced the Aryans to start surrendering their identity, correct? Do you think if Germany had not completely lost the war, and had maybe created a sizeable Aryan state, then the world would be a much better place today? Maybe even the Muslim problem would have been solved? This is not a bait question. I personally would have preferred that Germany won the war. I have a great-grandfather who died at the Battle of Stalingrad, and another who died during the Siege of Budapest, both against the Soviets.

 

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No, it means you may not live among my people. And you should be grateful for that, can you imagine how horrible it would be for me to bring my Aryan ways among your folk? I would never fit in, and I would only make your kind feel uncomfortable, and I would feel unwelcome and an outsider (and rightfully so). No proximity, no hard feelings.

Sorry to say that I do live among "your people", and they seem to like me quite a bit. I don't really have a "folk" or a "kind" nor a "people", but I agree that without shared universal values, races are incompatible.
There is however an ideological frame within which everyone has a place. That is the Universal Church. Christianity has been the single successful ideology that has incorporated all races from all over the globe. You can be Japanese, Chinese, Philipino, Aryan, Semitic, Subsaharan, Mestizo, low IQ, high IQ, and you can feel at home, provided that you leave your racial... baggage at the door.

Maybe my grandfather counts as Aryan, because he was German Hungarian. But there is a grandmother of mine who has some Jewish heritage. I'm pretty sure we can't be friends. 

So by the way... How are you contributing in our struggle against Islam?

 

[ofd]

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There is however an ideological frame within which everyone has a place. That is the Universal Church. Christianity has been the single successful ideology that has incorporated all races from all over the globe. You can be Japanese, Chinese, Philipino, Aryan, Semitic, Subsaharan, Mestizo, low IQ, high IQ, and you can feel at home, provided that you leave your racial... baggage at the door.

That is the case for any proselytizing religion. You can substitute Universal Church with Islam and have also a correct statement. The only churches that haven't fallen prey to degeneration are ethnic churches or ones that make it hard to become and stay a member.

[M.2]

3 hours ago, ofd said:

That is the case for any proselytizing religion. You can substitute Universal Church with Islam and have also a correct statement. The only churches that haven't fallen prey to degeneration are ethnic churches or ones that make it hard to become and stay a member.

Islam is a predominant religion only in areas where the average IQ is 80-85. Same goes for Hinduism.
Atheism is only prevailing in a few countries where the IQ is above 98.
Christianity just as prevalent in countries where the IQ is above 105 and where it is below 65.

 

Sorry, for some reason I can't post a second peicture no matter what I do. I trust you know where to find your religions.

[ofd]

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Same goes for Hinduism.

Hindus don't try to convert you. And they are restricted to India, hence the low IQ.

 

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Islam is a predominant religion only in areas where the average IQ is 80-85.

Yes, because they started there and never made it to Northern Europe. Until now.

 

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Christianity just as prevalent in countries where the IQ is above 105

I don't think that Christianity is prevalent in China

Ironically, the one thing that Christianity contributed long term to the development of Western was a marginal doctrine. Prohibiting cousin marriage had long term beneficial consequences that prevented a low IQ, a huge number of birthdefects and neuroticism.

[Erwin]

6 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

So if I understand correctly, the more Aryan there is in a person, the better. Aryans definitely spoke Proto-Indo-European, so I don't see how that is a misnomer.

better for Europe, yes.  Aryans did speak PIE but that article claims that the word Aryan has only been used for 2 centuries when there are nations, classes, and Gods who have gone under that banner for thousands of years.

 

7 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

Is it fair to say that you think UPB can only be achieved by the Aryans?

And Northern mongoloids, due to IQ.

 

7 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

According to you, it was the Jews who convinced the Aryans to start surrendering their identity, correct?

Yes.

 

8 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

Do you think if Germany had not completely lost the war, and had maybe created a sizeable Aryan state, then the world would be a much better place today? Maybe even the Muslim problem would have been solved?

Yes and yes.

 

8 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

Sorry to say that I do live among "your people", and they seem to like me quite a bit. I don't really have a "folk" or a "kind" nor a "people", but I agree that without shared universal values, races are incompatible.
There is however an ideological frame within which everyone has a place. That is the Universal Church. Christianity has been the single successful ideology that has incorporated all races from all over the globe. You can be Japanese, Chinese, Philipino, Aryan, Semitic, Subsaharan, Mestizo, low IQ, high IQ, and you can feel at home, provided that you leave your racial... baggage at the door.

There is no universal church. Every permutation of christianity has been adopted while christianizing already existing values and traditions. Each race interprets the bible different, and differ in core values. E.g Muh- "Jesus was a communist hippie" vs "Thou shalt not steal"

I know you can understand the concept of racial loyalty, but I don't think you will ever feel it. You have absolutely no skin in this game. That is why we consider it immoral to race-mix. It creates issues for mongrel children, as they can't possibly be loyal to a race. Being loyal to one race is disloyalty to the other. Loyalty to both is loyalty to neither. Loyalty to everyone is loyalty to no one.

How can we possibly leave racial baggage at the door, when there are genetic differences?

I don't want by children among low-IQ high testosterone dindus and risk getting raped or killed, while they're the supposedly the victims of racism because they "dindu nuffin". I don't want my children exposed to low-IQ Allah snackbars who whipe their a-holes in public fountains (without soap) and immediately proceed to wipe their face with the same hand (yes, this happened). I don't want my children ostracized by genetically comformist chinos. And over my dead body, will I let my children be exposed to Jewish media with their normalization of disgusting degenerate behaviors.

Let me ask you a question, do you expect only Aryans to be degenerate trash or is this something you expect of Jews, dindus, brownies, etc.? 

[M.2]

2 hours ago, ofd said:

Hindus don't try to convert you. And they are restricted to India, hence the low IQ.

Well, I wouldn't say they are restricted to India, but they are probably all genetically Subcontinental. I wonder why Hinduism never made it into high IQ countries, whereas Buddhism did. I mean they started in the same place at roughly the same time, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_by_country#/media/File:Hinduism_percent_population_in_each_nation_World_Map_Hindu_data_by_Pew_Research.svg

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es, because they started there and never made it to Northern Europe. Until now.

Does Tatarstan count as northern Europe? It is longitudinally above Germany. Also, Christianity and Judaism started ther too.

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I don't think that Christianity is prevalent in China

How does that defeat my argument? China is not the only country above 105. South Korea is majority christian, and they score at 106.

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Ironically, the one thing that Christianity contributed long term to the development of Western was a marginal doctrine. Prohibiting cousin marriage had long term beneficial consequences that prevented a low IQ, a huge number of birthdefects and neuroticism.

Ironically? Marginal doctrine? I give up.

 

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

There is no universal church. Every permutation of christianity has been adopted while christianizing already existing values and traditions. Each race interprets the bible different, and differ in core values. E.g Muh- "Jesus was a communist hippie" vs "Thou shalt not steal"

I think you have only met protestants. If a Chinese catholic and a Subsaharan catholic met, you can be sure that they will use the same terminology and same concepts that are used in Rome when they discuss religion. We even have a universal language, Latin, in case there are language complications. The beauty of the Universal Church is such.

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I know you can understand the concept of racial loyalty, but I don't think you will ever feel it. You have absolutely no skin in this game. That is why we consider it immoral to race-mix. It creates issues for mongrel children, as they can't possibly be loyal to a race. Being loyal to one race is disloyalty to the other. Loyalty to both is loyalty to neither. Loyalty to everyone is loyalty to no one.

This is an interesting subject you bring up, and I think it is very relevant to the topic of the thread.

See of this makes sense to you. You are right, I don't feel loyalty to a "race". When I watch a movie about Mongols warring against Poles, When I watch a movie about Hungarians warring against Germans, I root for the Germans. When I watch a movie about Germans besieging the Vatican, I root for the Vatican. I think you get the picture. My values are not rooted in race, but in ideology.

Quite frankly, I think Europe should die if they surrender their faith, but as you see, they don't need my encouragements.

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How can we possibly leave racial baggage at the door, when there are genetic differences?

It's quite possible. Take the example of the World Catholic Youth Day, when over 2 million youths gather in one place from all over the world every few years. From there comes no scandal, no reports of rape, no molestation. Simply because we catholics have managed to adhere to the UPB of our own, all while the clever atheists are still figuring out whether they want communism or nazism.

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Let me ask you a question, do you expect only Aryans to be degenerate trash or is this something you expect of Jews, dindus, brownies, etc.? 

I don't understand the question. I am usually ready to murder everyone I meet before they prove their morality. 

Let me try to answer anyway... If I had to pick, I would rather leave my toys with a random arab christian person than a random aryan atheist person.
Supposing that religion is NOT a factor, then I would without question want to belong to the Jews. I mean, how is this even a competition? The Jews are going to have all the Aryans wiped out anyway, and it is only a matter of time before they destroy Islam as well.

You should join us, meet a nice jewish girl, put on the funny cap, move to Israel. After all, you are a racial relativist, right? Plus, your offspring would be most grateful.

[Erwin]

22 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

I think you have only met protestants. If a Chinese catholic and a Subsaharan catholic met, you can be sure that they will use the same terminology and same concepts that are used in Rome when they discuss religion. We even have a universal language, Latin, in case there are language complications. The beauty of the Universal Church is such.

No, I have met many types of christians. Have you ever made a chino live with a dindu? They might think the same concepts, sure. But dindus act dindu, and chinos act chino. I have yet to see a religion /  culture change the ways of people, but I have always seen the ways of people change religion and culture.

 

29 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

See of this makes sense to you. You are right, I don't feel loyalty to a "race". [snip] My values are not rooted in race, but in ideology.

I expect nothing more from a mongrel. Ideology is the best you got.

Thankfully, we have a deeper more grounded connection than something as superficial as mere thoughts. Aryans made Christianity what it is. You take away Christianity, we'll always find an excuse to have those same values. Thanks to Stef, our  next excuse may very well be philosophy itself. Prior to Christianity, we had the Pagan religions, of which we still have the same traditions and celebrations in their respective Christian forms.

You may have noticed that so many dindus are Christian and yet degeneracy is rampant among them. There is no way they can be among my people no matter how Christian they are.

 

47 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

Quite frankly, I think Europe should die if they surrender their faith, but as you see, they don't need my encouragements. [snip] I am usually ready to murder everyone I meet before they prove their morality. 

You can preach all the Christianity you want, but at the end of the day, you  are not only ready to murder people, but you are also willing to let my people die if we disagree with you on religion.

Which reinforces my point on Jews and mongrels. After all that Muh-Jesus, you act in perfect accordance with your genes. Shocker!

 

44 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

It's quite possible. Take the example of the World Catholic Youth Day, when over 2 million youths gather in one place from all over the world every few years. From there comes no scandal, no reports of rape, no molestation. Simply because we catholics have managed to adhere to the UPB of our own, all while the clever atheists are still figuring out whether they want communism or nazism.

False equivalence. Christianity is a religion of mostly whites by whites for whites. Low crime? Shocker!

 

47 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

Supposing that religion is NOT a factor, then I would without question want to belong to the Jews. I mean, how is this even a competition? The Jews are going to have all the Aryans wiped out anyway, and it is only a matter of time before they destroy Islam as well.

Said the Jews, every other time. Until they were booted, every other time.

You may have noticed that we are waking up to Jewry. I would recommend that Jews grab their shekels and run off to Israel. The goyim know.

[M.2]

16 hours ago, Erwin said:

No, I have met many types of christians. Have you ever made a chino live with a dindu? They might think the same concepts, sure. But dindus act dindu, and chinos act chino. I have yet to see a religion /  culture change the ways of people, but I have always seen the ways of people change religion and culture.

I take it chino means chinese and dindu means black. Yes, I have. But that is anecdotal evidence.

Aha. So you believe that people make ideas, and not the other way around. Then I wonder why FDR exists. Is Mr.Molyneux just preaching to the choir?

A good example of an ideology changing a people is the conversion of East-Timor. The differing ideology made them so incompatibel with their brothers on the same tiny island that they had to secede and become a new nation. Same island, same genetics, different religion. 

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I expect nothing more from a mongrel. Ideology is the best you got.

Thankfully, we have a deeper more grounded connection than something as superficial as mere thoughts. Aryans made Christianity what it is. You take away Christianity, we'll always find an excuse to have those same values. Thanks to Stef, our  next excuse may very well be philosophy itself. Prior to Christianity, we had the Pagan religions, of which we still have the same traditions and celebrations in their respective Christian forms.

You may have noticed that so many dindus are Christian and yet degeneracy is rampant among them. There is no way they can be among my people no matter how Christian they are.

I don't know whether or not "mongrel" is a derogatory term, so I'll leave it at that. I think ideology is the only thing we have. Even your alt-right mentality is an ideology. 

I don't think Paganism was anything like Christianity, and I think it takes a very uneducated person to claim so.

"So many" is not a number, so I cannot confirm. Degeneracy is pretty 'rampant' among Aryans as well, I would say. I mean... inviting a barbaric alien culture into your lands and having them take your women... what is wrong with you? Please don't take moral agency away and blame everything on the Semites either. That is just pathetic.

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You can preach all the Christianity you want, but at the end of the day, you  are not only ready to murder people, but you are also willing to let my people die if we disagree with you on religion.

Which reinforces my point on Jews and mongrels. After all that Muh-Jesus, you act in perfect accordance with your genes. Shocker!

Don't misquote me. I think a culture without an absolutist ideology deserves to die, nevertheless I have fought for your precious race probably more than you ever have. I have seen the Balkan Wall, I have been to the migrant camps, I have patrolled the streets of Budapest, and my taxes are going directly to the maintenance of the Balkan Wall. All while you Aryans are ferrying the Muslims in over the Mediterranean.
Before the Slavs joined us in the fight, there were only the three non-aryan groups, the Hungarians, the Maltese and Finns fighting Islam. What are you and your proud pure-blood Aryans doing in the meantime? I ask again: How exactly are you contributing in the struggle against Islam?

I don't think you understand what Christianity is. We are by no means pacifists. Sure, you can give your own cheek to get slapped, but you cannot offer up someone else's cheeks. Have you heard of the Just War Doctrine? No, not theory, but doctrine.
And just because I am ready to murder people, doesn't mean I do. It's a warzone here in Belgium. ...Also coming to a town near you!

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False equivalence. Christianity is a religion of mostly whites by whites for whites. Low crime? Shocker!

At least some amount of data to back your points up would be welcome. Only a third of all catholics are white or "Aryan" as you would say. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/02/13/the-global-catholic-population/

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Said the Jews, every other time. Until they were booted, every other time.

You may have noticed that we are waking up to Jewry. I would recommend that Jews grab their shekels and run off to Israel. The goyim know.

Right... Do you get called racist a lot? Like... more than average "straight-white-cis-males" gets?

[Erwin]

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Because I am a Christian with a universal standard for everything. [snip] Because I am a Christian who believes in universal ethics and therefore hold everyone who can reason to a same standard.

But you don't accept the existence of Pagan gods, so how can you have a standard for them?

 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Modern American government is warmongering. Has been since WWI. Are we not a civilization? I'd argue we're becoming less of one. Likewise when the Roman Empire/Early Republic started to stray from its principles of freedom (which unfortunately meant war, but fortunately that war actually did something good for both the conqueror and the conquered when usually no one benefits) alongside a welfare-warfare state suicide fest, it signed its own death warrant.

I agree, but you missed the point I was making.

If warmongering makes society less of a civilization, then that standard should apply to both Nords and Romans. They are either both civilization or neither, by that standard.

 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Because otherwise he's just a fat and useless piece of shit spinning tall tales. A God is either the creator of the universe or a champion of some aspect of a religion (if not it's entirety). 

Technically speaking, depending on how the pagans defined things like love or whatever, their gods could be inherently consistent. However that just makes them degenerate. Either because they worship a hypocrite or they worship degeneracy itself knowingly. 

Your first point relates to what a God ought to be. How do you justify this?

As for your second point, I still fail to see any hypocrisy. Your argument is like calling Kryptonite a hypocrite because it hurts aliens but not humans. 2 species, 2 standards. 0 hypocrisy.

 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Assuming you mean Christian values originated from pagans. 

No, my point is that those values we now consider to be Christian are inherently genetic for us. Religion is how we rationalize our tendencies, not the other way around.

An example of this I mentioned in a  previous post, of how some people view the Bible as communist hippie gumbaya and some view it as guidelines for virtue. They interpret it the way they do as a result of their genetic predisposition (R-K in this case). A perfect example of this is the Bible quote "He who does not work, shall not eat". ((( Lenin ))) used it to justify communism, whereas the Almighty Grand Aryan /John Smith/ used it to abolish communism in Jamestown.

 

13 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I see what you mean now. I'm weary about using false idols are role models since, as the saying goes, "honesty is the best policy except when murderers are involved". For example, I'd rather use Jesus as an example of resisting temptation, Sima Yi as an example of deferring gratification (in his dream of seizing ultimate power and pacifying WWII-level war torn China), Richard the Lionheart or Gustavus Adolphus for bravery, Zhuge Liang for wisdom, Aristotle for reason, etc. etc. Real people make better idols because they're harder to corrupt and are...well, from a human perspective, more inspiring because if a "mere mortal" could do it then "I" could too. 

Well, I agree with your point on honesty, but I'm not advocating lying. Odin as an archetype is perfectly honest, imo. We're calling it an archetype and not a god.

As for your point on inspiration, I'm not so sure. Pagans believed that the gods were heavily involved in day to day life, and that it was very possible to be either blessed by a god and even to create demi-gods both capable of superhuman feats. I'm more familiar with Greeks and Romans as I am partly Greek / Italian, and off the top of my head I can think of Achilles, Herakles, Alexander, Odysseus, etc. I can definitely see how it would feel inspiring to achieve greatness if you were convinced that you were a demi-god.

[ofd]

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Does Tatarstan count as northern Europe? It is longitudinally above Germany.

It's Eastern Europe.

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Ironically? Marginal doctrine? I give up.

That doctrine was more influential than the theological teachings over the time. The main difference between Eastern and Wester Europe is the cousin marriage and manorialism.

[Donnadogsoth]

13 hours ago, Erwin said:

How do you know?

It could be that you might run into the problem that real people present achievable goals. What do you do when you actually achieve those goals?

At least with a deity, the goal is an impossible ideal. It creates a situation of continuous self-improvement, because no matter how much you accomplish, you have to keep accomplishing.

It's not a surprise that Aryans would believe in such deities as role models. After all, they were the explorers, the builders, and the conquerors.

No man willingly dies for what he knows is a lie.  Many were martyred after seeing the risen Christ.  The martyrs who came after and had no way to check the story died by faith alone, but the martyrs like Peter died for something they actually saw.  That something is the virtue and power of Christ.

[Erwin]

15 minutes ago, Donnadogsoth said:

No man willingly dies for what he knows is a lie.

It's not a lie if you see it as an archetype, as opposed to a god.

[Donnadogsoth]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

It's not a lie if you see it as an archetype, as opposed to a god.

Then I ask again, wouldn't it be better to base one's conduct on an actual role model rather than an archetypal one?  As you say,

At least with a deity, the goal is an impossible ideal. It creates a situation of continuous self-improvement, because no matter how much you accomplish, you have to keep accomplishing.

So much the better with a real man who was also God, who presents an impossible standard for man to follow, and who promises judgement of souls.

[Erwin]

2 hours ago, Donnadogsoth said:

Then I ask again, wouldn't it be better to base one's conduct on an actual role model rather than an archetypal one?  [snip] So much the better with a real man who was also God, who presents an impossible standard for man to follow, and who promises judgement of souls.

To clarify, I'm not claiming its better. I'm claiming that I can't assume it was worse just because you said so, but I'm willing to hear your argument as to why Jesus is the better archetype.

[Crusader1986]

Mishi2, you say that Islam will be kicked back to the desert. What do you mean by that? Do you mean we will have a 2nd Holocaust where after winning the civil war we ship all of Europe's muslims off to the gas chambers and ovens in Poland and wipe them all out or do you think some will stay after Islam is driven out and those ones who stay will be only the ones that choose to subscribe to the Western values? Just reading Mark Steyn's "After America - The End Of The World As We Know it."  Good book, but really scary. Do you know by 2020, Russia's army will be majority Muslim? Doesn't that mean there's a good chance muslims could hijack Russia's nukes and empty them all out over the Western World? Personally I think we've got another 10 years to sort out this Islamic problem. Anytime after will be too late.

[Crusader1986]

Mishi2, you say that Islam will be kicked back to the desert. What do you mean by that? Do you mean we will have a 2nd Holocaust where after winning the civil war we ship all of Europe's muslims off to the gas chambers and ovens in Poland and wipe them all out or do you think some will stay after Islam is driven out and those ones who stay will only be the ones that choose to subscribe to Western values? Just reading Mark Steyn's "After America - The End Of The World As We Know it."  Great read, but really scary. Do you know by 2020, Russia's army will be majority Muslim? Doesn't that mean there's a good chance muslims could hijack Russia's nukes and empty them all out over the Western World? Personally I think we've got another 10 years to sort out this Islamic problem. Anytime after will be too late.

[Donnadogsoth]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

To clarify, I'm not claiming its better. I'm claiming that I can't assume it was worse just because you said so, but I'm willing to hear your argument as to why Jesus is the better archetype.

Jesus embodies rationality, power, and love, while explaining at once why the universe is beset with decay and pain, what the nature of human beings is, and whence cometh ultimate justice and mercy.

 

The universe is what it is not due to his design but due to a wilful falling away from the proper path.

 

Rationally, the universe is made to be intelligible-in-principle, which humans, made in his image, gain power over through discoveries of principle.

 

Beyond the universe, at the end of days, man can expect to be judged according to his conduct and character, and thus all historical wrongs will be righted and everyone receive what he deserves.

 

Jesus is also love incarnate, and so in him power and goodness rationally converge. He both wills to do good, and has the power to do good.

 

Jesus is thus the ultimate role model for virtue, especially love, honesty, and piety. He also drove the money-changers from the temple thus giving a divine benchmark for the use of tempered force against evil. He did not kill the money-changers, he merely drove them away.

 

Jesus also has the advantage of being the most well-known figure in the Western world, and so jump-starting his influence has a greater chance of success than does reviving pagan figures.

[Erwin]

@Donnadogsoth First of all, when there is a will there is a way. Thus, I don't see how lack of popularity is a good argument against the pagan gods. As for the virtues of Jesus, the pagan gods were full of virtue as well and also have similar prophecies. A + for Jesus does not necessarily imply a - for the pagan gods. So far, if you are to keep a "virtue score" based on what you have listed, it seems like a tie to me.

[Donnadogsoth]

6 minutes ago, Erwin said:

@Donnadogsoth First of all, when there is a will there is a way. Thus, I don't see how lack of popularity is a good argument against the pagan gods. As for the virtues of Jesus, the pagan gods were full of virtue as well and also have similar prophecies. A + for Jesus does not necessarily imply a - for the pagan gods. So far, if you are to keep a "virtue score" based on what you have listed, it seems like a tie to me.

I'm saying that Jesus has a huge amount of what accounting calls "good will" or the intangible value of an asset, such as the popularity of McDonalds or Ronald McDonald, which have their own goodwill values attached.  Paganism is enjoying a minor renaissance with the New Age movement, but still faces an uphill battle.  Why buck the tide if Jesus is just as good?

As I wrote earlier, the advantage Jesus has over the pagan gods is that Jesus actually existed and thus has priority.  Add to that the universal rationality that Christianity developed out of Jesus, which paganism has no analogue for, and the final judgement.

Jesus also offers--and this is seen in the behaviour of the original Christians--a way out of fear, guilt, and selfishness, three impediments to happiness.

[M.2]

9 hours ago, Crusader1986 said:

Mishi2, you say that Islam will be kicked back to the desert. What do you mean by that? Do you mean we will have a 2nd Holocaust where after winning the civil war we ship all of Europe's muslims off to the gas chambers and ovens in Poland and wipe them all out or do you think some will stay after Islam is driven out and those ones who stay will only be the ones that choose to subscribe to Western values? Just reading Mark Steyn's "After America - The End Of The World As We Know it."  Great read, but really scary. Do you know by 2020, Russia's army will be majority Muslim? Doesn't that mean there's a good chance muslims could hijack Russia's nukes and empty them all out over the Western World? Personally I think we've got another 10 years to sort out this Islamic problem. Anytime after will be too late.

Hi, Crusader! Thanks,  I'll check out the book.

Russia has always been a multiethnic empire. Only 77% are Russian. It is concerning, not only to us, but to the Russian leadership as well. However... the minister of defence in Russia is a Tuvan guy (Sergey Shoygu). I don't think he is muslim, but this is a testament to the fact that it is possible to be an oppressed minority, and still be a loyal soldier of Russia. The Russians have always employed their minorities in the military (see Kosacks), and they have been the right arm of the Russian Military since Peter the Great, through the Russian Civil War, and up to this day. It is also a recurring trend in Russian history that they utilise one minority to oppress another. Russians are smart. Personally, I don't fret about it so much.

Notice I said "islam" and not "muslims". In my opinion, it is mathematically impossible to expell all muslims from Europe. Muslims populations have always existed in Europe to some degree. For instance in Tatarstan, Bosnia, Albania, Thracia. 
I have a very strong suspicion that it will eventually come to a bit of ethnic cleansing. But it will not settle the matter forever. Ethnic cleansing has been successful only in a minority of cases in history. 

My hope is the same as that of Mr.Molyneux. That an absolutist ideology is the only thing that can stop an absolutist ideology. Although Mr.Molyneux has been drawing closer to Christianity recently, he still thinks that a new value system has to be created. Even if I agreed with him on that, I doubt there is actually enough time to do so. Notice that at the edges of Europe, Christianity is extremely strong. Russia, Armenia, Georgia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Sicily, Malta, Spain are all at the top of the list when ranked by faith. This is the only way a society can possibly survive when pressed up against a robust ideology like Islam.

If we manage to return to an absolutist ideology, then there is hope for bringing over the Muslims to our side. That is our only way of doing things peacefully. As anecdotal evidence, I have spoken with many migrants coming to Europe, and it is really not that hard to impress them with Christianity. The only problem is that they are going to countries where the natives are not Christian themselves. What are they supposed to integrate into when there is nothing to integrate into?

[Erwin]

11 hours ago, Donnadogsoth said:

I'm saying that Jesus has a huge amount of what accounting calls "good will" or the intangible value of an asset, such as the popularity of McDonalds or Ronald McDonald, which have their own goodwill values attached.  Paganism is enjoying a minor renaissance with the New Age movement, but still faces an uphill battle.  Why buck the tide if Jesus is just as good?

So Jesus is better than pagan gods because he's more popular, but we shouldn't buck the tide because he's just as good... Your argument not only contradicts itself (is he just as good or better?) but you still haven't justified why he's better to begin with.

That matters because if he is truly just as good then I would concede that it is pointless to buck the tide. However, it seems to me that Jesus and Odin / Zeus are complimentary archetypes. While Jesus brings virtue and is UPB-ish, Odin / Zeus give us the existence of our race via wisdom and strength of men. Not only are those 2 qualities necessary to build and protect women and children, they also keep the men masculine and attractive to women which encourages procreation. Christianity has utterly failed in this regard.

I'm all for preaching Jesus, but there can be no virtue without existence.

 

11 hours ago, Donnadogsoth said:

As I wrote earlier, the advantage Jesus has over the pagan gods is that Jesus actually existed and thus has priority.  Add to that the universal rationality that Christianity developed out of Jesus, which paganism has no analogue for, and the final judgement.

Dude. He was a magic Jew -_- Let's be honest, he is just as much a superhuman as Achilles. As for the rationality, yes I agree as I mentioned above. But I also see Christianity lacking in regards to not being dead. Rationality depends on our existence, especially considering that we were the ones to interpret the Bible in the way that it is interpreted today, and we were the ones to spread Christianity in this form. Do you really think a dindu would have rationalized away cutting off a woman's hands should she require to grab another man's genitalia in order to save his life? (Deuteronomy i think).

[Donnadogsoth]

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So Jesus is better than pagan gods because he's more popular, but we shouldn't buck the tide because he's just as good... Your argument not only contradicts itself (is he just as good or better?) but you still haven't justified why he's better to begin with.

You yourself said “if you are to keep a "virtue score" based on what you have listed, it seems like a tie to me.” I'm saying that if it is a tie, we should go with the most popular, if “virtue archetype” is what we are going for as opposed to truth.

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That matters because if he is truly just as good then I would concede that it is pointless to buck the tide. However, it seems to me that Jesus and Odin / Zeus are complimentary archetypes. While Jesus brings virtue and is UPB-ish, Odin / Zeus give us the existence of our race via wisdom and strength of men. Not only are those 2 qualities necessary to build and protect women and children, they also keep the men masculine and attractive to women which encourages procreation. Christianity has utterly failed in this regard.

I'm all for preaching Jesus, but there can be no virtue without existence.

It's hard to argue against the assertion that Christianity has left a gap in the West's ability to survive. We had a survival impulse left over, a kind of pagan inertia perhaps, but that has evaporated under liberalism. Christianity is a wonderful thing for economics and only Christian civilisation landed men on the Moon, after all. But, I agree there is a missing element there. Without a cohesive people the economy will not prosper, or the economy will be irrelevant.

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Dude. He was a magic Jew -_- Let's be honest, he is just as much a superhuman as Achilles. As for the rationality, yes I agree as I mentioned above. But I also see Christianity lacking in regards to not being dead. Rationality depends on our existence, especially considering that we were the ones to interpret the Bible in the way that it is interpreted today, and we were the ones to spread Christianity in this form. Do you really think a dindu would have rationalized away cutting off a woman's hands should she require to grab another man's genitalia in order to save his life? (Deuteronomy i think).

I concede your point that non-Western cultures will develop their own non-Western interpretations of Christianity, some of which are repugnant. There is a white identity that has interpreted Christianity a certain way, but at the cost of its own identity.  When Paul wrote in Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." he did not mean that we should make it such that there are no distinctions between people--no men or women, for example.  But the defense of personal and group identity is lacking in the Bible, because the passages are vulnerable to liberal interpretation.

Let's say we agree that Jesus is worth keeping, but there is the “wisdom and strength of men” gap. How do you propose to bridge that gap without destroying the rationality and virtue of Jesus, of man being made in the image of God, without merely creating a new Pantheon?

[Crusader1986]

Yeah I was approached by an arab looking guy on the street who was giving out leaflets to try and recruit people to christianity. Should have asked if he was a convert from Islam.  As for ethnic cleansing in Europe, could that be a precursor to a partitioning of European countries into a muslim sector and non muslim sector eg muslim france and non muslim france, a muslim UK and a non muslim UK? The problem with an ethnic cleansing that doesn't wipe out the muslims completely is that the surviving muslims will feel massive resentment to the country that slaughtered them, resulting in an increase in tensions even more and another civil war in the future, unless we force them to give up islam completely.  This European problem with Islam I feel is a thousands times worse than Bosnia in the 90s as Bosnia was attacked by Serbia. This time the enemy is within our countries, which means a future of endless civil strife, unless we totally wipe them out, Third Reich style. Or maybe even without wiping them all out completely, and leaving some survivors the muslims will feel they don't want to stay in Europe anymore and will end up just going back to the failed, worthless countries they came from.

 

Been reading that book by Mark Steyn. 30% of children born in France today are muslim. That means that in 20 years according to https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/muslim-behavior-with-population-increase/ France will have Islamic Jihad militias and the muslims will be burning down all their churches. Not soon afterwards you'll then see massacres of non muslims and ethnic cleansing here and there. Welcome to Europe in 2045. And yeah we should be teaching Christianity and Islam in all our schools. That means studying all the texts from both religions. This could be what makes many muslims leave Islam as they'll see which one is the one with great morals, values and ethics, and which one is the toxic one. Remember Islam only exists and grows due to ignorance. Once people find out what a failed and evil system it is, a lot of people will leave. Or maybe i'm being too hopeful and the threat of violence and honor killings from their families and the threat of Allah sending them to eternal torture in the hellfire will always stop them from leaving. Quran Sura 22, Verses 19-22: "Garments of fire will be tailored for those who disbelieve; scalding water will be poured over their heads; melting their insides as well as their skins; there will be iron crooks to restrain them; whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape, they will be pushed back in and told, "Taste the suffering of the Fire"

Edited July 22, 2017 by Crusader1986

[M.2]

2 hours ago, Crusader1986 said:

As for ethnic cleansing in Europe, could that be a precursor to a partitioning of European countries into a muslim sector and non muslim sector eg muslim france and non muslim france, a muslim UK and a non muslim UK? The problem with an ethnic cleansing that doesn't wipe out the muslims completely is that the surviving muslims will feel massive resentment to the country that slaughtered them, resulting in an increase in tensions even more and another civil war in the future, unless we force them to give up islam completely.  This European problem with Islam I feel is a thousands times worse than Bosnia in the 90s as Bosnia was attacked by Serbia. This time the enemy is within our countries, which means a future of endless civil strife, unless we totally wipe them out, Third Reich style. Or maybe even without wiping them all out completely, and leaving some survivors the muslims will feel they don't want to stay in Europe anymore and will end up just going back to the failed, worthless countries they came from.

You are from the UK, correct? Have you been on the call-in show recently? I know someone brought this topic up.

There is a lot of room for speculation there. I have been to the UK, France, Belgium, Germany, but I haven't seen the signs of outright partitioning as of yet. 
You use the word "forcing" a lot. In the FDR community, we put much emphasis on the respecting of human free will and peaceful dialogue. This does not mean we shy away from physical conflict when it presents itself, but still, it would be better if nobody got hurt. That being said, I understand you don't think a peaceful resolution is likely at this point. Right?

So let me ask you a few things. If it comes to outright civil war, the like of which occurred in Yugoslavia, would you be willing to grab a weapon, take a bullet, and personally kill unarmed women and children? That is what you are suggesting, as I'm sure you understand. And if you would, what exactly would you do it for? The west? What does that mean to you? 

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Not soon afterwards you'll then see massacres of non muslims and ethnic cleansing here and there. Welcome to Europe in 2045. And yeah we should be teaching Christianity and Islam in all our schools. That means studying all the texts from both religions. This could be what makes many muslims leave Islam as they'll see which one is the one with great morals, values and ethics, and which one is the toxic one. Remember Islam only exists and grows due to ignorance. Once people find out what a failed and evil system it is, a lot of people will leave. Or maybe i'm being too hopeful and the threat of violence and honor killings from their families and the threat of Allah sending them to eternal torture in the hellfire will always stop them from leaving.

I wish I had more hope, but I also think ethnic cleansing, at least to some extent, will come to pass. I think it has already started in some areas.
No, it is not ignorance that feeds Islam. "If only they could see it our way" is a very misguided attitude. When missionaries go to the middle-east, books are only a small utility. Their primary weapon they bring with them is willpower and sacrifice. Knowledge is only the seed, but blood is water to it. Unless Westerners are willing to show at least as much sacrifice as the Muslims are, they will lose. When Asians visit Europe, they don't say "Wow, look at all their good arguments - I may have to join the winning side.", but rather "Wow, those are some huge cathedrals that they had to build for 300 years with blood, sweat and tears - these guys sure love their god."

What draws me to FDR is the commitment that Mr.Molyneux has for truth and values. Even though I don't agree with him on everything, I am confident that he would be more than willing to shed his blood for roughly the same values that I hold, if it comes down to it.

[Crusader1986]

Yeah I'm from the UK. Never been on the show but it's something I've been thinking about for a while.  I just feel I'm not prepared enough yet, like I haven't decided on the questions I would ask, the points I want to make. And yeah, people are still very much asleep. A peaceful solution is still possible at this point but our leaders are useless and making sure that soon we'll only be able to sort out the problem with violence. Like I said I think we have another 10 years, after that it'll be too late.  As for whether i'd be willing to use a weapon and kill muslims, not the innocent women and children, but if faced with a mob of extremely aggressive, Jihadists armed with 10 inch butcher's knives in the streets who are attacking every non muslim in sight, then yeah i'd be willing to get a baseball bat or shotgun and blow their brains out. At that point it's an assault on the West which we spent thousands of years to build. I'm above all a fan of human progress, and I've always hoped and believed that eventually we'd get to the point where we'd have confined war on this planet to the history books, where everybody would have prosperous, healthy lives. That we'd have completely peaceful societies where there's no violence, abuse or bullying towards children (I think Stefan is 100% right on this. That peaceful parenting would get rid of violence in society). Where religion is completely gone and everyone has instead taken up philosophy. That we've taken science and technology to incredible new levels, everyone has a life expectancy of 500 years and we've been to different galaxies and figured out the mysteries of the universe, beginnings of the universe, time, humans etc. That we've cured all diseases, cancers and every problem we have. I want this and I know that if Islam gets its way we'll go back to the dark ages. That's why I'm against Islam 100% and it has to be wiped out and deleted from history.

By the way, when you say that there's already been some ethnic cleansing, what areas do you mean? Do you also think ethnic cleansing towards non muslims? As for sacrifice, it's 100% correct. This is what might make them win. They have belief, they have willpower, they have the "word of god" behind them, which is why they're so confident whereas all we have is iphones, selfies, broken families, reality TV, sports, too much comfort, weak men, feminised countries, state encouraged laziness, infertility, diversity, hatred to straight white men and frigging tolerance...It's pathetic. No wonder we're losing. What would save the situation would be that instead of teaching children about the holocaust, colonialism and white oppression in schools, they teach them about the renaissance, the enlightenment and all our great values and jewels that came about because of those movements such as freedom of speech, the rule of law, free market capitalism, democracy, property rights, modern medicine, all the scientific breakthroughs, all the great music, art, literature, philosophy etc. This would put the confidence back in Western Civilization and then we'd be able to crush Islam in a second.

[M.2]

On ‎2017‎. ‎07‎. ‎22‎. at 1:08 PM, Crusader1986 said:

By the way, when you say that there's already been some ethnic cleansing, what areas do you mean? Do you also think ethnic cleansing towards non muslims?

Well, for starters, there is Bosnia and Kosovo. That is undisputedly violent ethnic cleansing towards the Serbs. There are also the bit less violent forms, which are occurring in major urban areas in France, Germany, Belgium, and UK (as you probably know better). People are moving out of certain areas for fear for their safety, and they are not shy to admit it. You only need a couple of stabbings in an area to make property prices plummet. Any sane person does not stay. 
As far as I know, there is currently no ethnic cleansing that is targetting muslims. The only cases I have heard of is that on certain islands, Corsica and Sicily to be exact, people are very hostile towards muslims, and destroy their shops and businesses. I guess that counts.

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As for sacrifice, it's 100% correct. This is what might make them win. They have belief, they have willpower, they have the "word of god" behind them, which is why they're so confident whereas all we have is iphones, selfies, broken families, reality TV, sports, too much comfort, weak men, feminised countries, state encouraged laziness, infertility, diversity, hatred to straight white men and frigging tolerance...It's pathetic. No wonder we're losing.

Well put.

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What would save the situation would be that instead of teaching children about the holocaust, colonialism and white oppression in schools, they teach them about the renaissance, the enlightenment and all our great values and jewels that came about because of those movements such as freedom of speech, the rule of law, free market capitalism, democracy, property rights, modern medicine, all the scientific breakthroughs, all the great music, art, literature, philosophy etc. This would put the confidence back in Western Civilization and then we'd be able to crush Islam in a second.

I agree. It all starts with education. Which is why I have chosen that field. The various education systems of Europe will collapse eventually; and I want to be there when they do.

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Yeah I'm from the UK. Never been on the show but it's something I've been thinking about for a while.  I just feel I'm not prepared enough yet, like I haven't decided on the questions I would ask, the points I want to make. And yeah, people are still very much asleep. A peaceful solution is still possible at this point but our leaders are useless and making sure that soon we'll only be able to sort out the problem with violence. Like I said I think we have another 10 years, after that it'll be too late.  

I think if you sent this exact quote, you would get a pretty interesting rant out of him. Maybe you could expand on how you came to the 10 years approximation.

[vanta black]

On 7/11/2017 at 6:46 PM, Mishi2 said:

Hi, Failla!

I am so glad you tossed up this question. Speculating about culture and geopolitics is my favourite passtime.

I would first like to get on the same page as you, so I have a few questions.

1. Your question presupposes that there is a "European" struggle against "Islam". What do you define as Europe and European? What do you define as Islam and Muslim?
2. You also presuppose that we all agree that there is a "struggle" against Islam. As far as I noticed, half of the continent are not only not struggling against Islam, but they are actively inviting them in. So how did you come to the conclusion that there is a struggle? And if there is a struggle, who specifically is struggling?
3. You bring up the term "civil war". When would you consider the civil war to  have begun? Some would think, as I do, that the civil war has already begun in some places. Just take a look at Hamburg, Brussels, Kaukasia, the rhetoric of Turkey and of Poland.
4. What do you mean by "our politicians"? Do you mean those of your country, or that of the EU, or that of broader Europe?
5. Would you entertain the possibility that the continent will splinter and go on their separate various paths, or do you think we are far too interconnected, and that we will all have the same destiny?

Exactly. In Germany, the pro European parties barely have anyone and virtually no power. The destruction of Germany is something which Germans are welcoming with open arms and large majorities. Ditto in Sweden. 

 

The issue is none of these people are realists, they're fantasists. In this case they fantasize about other people's future behavior and their fantasies run counter to all available information, both current and historical. 

 

What we are experiencing is the anxiety clear-eyed realists experience when infantile narcissists like today's EU leaders / dreamers/  politicians begin acting in ways which we can see are self-destructive. This has probably been going on for millennia. Some Jews got out of Europe last century- picked up and fled early. Most did not. 

 

We are certain people living through a certain historical time. It's not that great to be us. 

 

The worst thing is, because Merkle et. al. are at heart narcissists, even if the obvious consequences of their policies creeps into their minds (supposing this is not a self conscious act of self immolation on Germany's part) what they think is "Well, about me history will say "she meant well. She had a pure idealistic heart". This excuses every kind of depravity in a narcissists mind since "being thought a hero" or "being thought highly of" is the ultimate narcissist high. What happens as a consequence of your actions to other people is nothing. What people say about you is everything.

In Merkle's case, that translates to "what historians will say about you".

 

The bottom line is, as in WWI and WWII , the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin and Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot, idealists who seek to radically, rapidly and fundamentally re-make society into some paradise on earth they envision are at the helm, making the decisions, writing the laws, pulling the triggers. 

 

America needs to reconstitute the old Gladio Program through which it defeated Communism in Europe in the 50s. We need that kind of tactic and Merkle and the rest of the EU leaders are the targets. So are their elections. So are their "civil organizations" aka Soros funded groups. This is war and we need to fight it like a war, with every single weapon at our disposal. 

 

That';s probably not going to happen until some major European city is turned into a Islam-only caliphate tributary or worse, a sea of trinitite. or worse.

 

That's what it takes to wake up people like those who populate the EU.

[vanta black]

On 7/22/2017 at 7:08 AM, Crusader1986 said:

They have belief, they have willpower, they have the "word of god" behind them, which is why they're so confident

Camille Paglia goes into this point from a historical perspective. Civilizations at the end of their reign become effette , and cosmopolitan and proud of it. The men are faggy and gender is confused  the women are promiscuous then the whole civilization goes down through invasion of some barbarian horde where manly virtue and a war-like mentality are valued.

 

The thing is, this does not describe OUR culture only the left's .

 

So let them die.

 

We need to break away monetarily, technologically and politically from them. A clean and total break. We will take ownership of the weapons of war and use them. They can dismantle their weapons.  

 

In the US, California is fast devolving into a sea of multi-cult-y dysfunction and economic ruin with a few oasis of productivity and safety in each location where people feel safe and life is normal and fund the rest.  Conservatives should withdraw en masse from California where your vote is wasted and your labor is taxed to give trannies sex change operations and just leave them to their fate, as an example of what happens to places with "sanctuary cities", i.e. no laws. 

 

Let the liberals co-locate, isolate then exterminate themselves. We'll repopulate after they're extinct.  

[Erwin]

On 7/20/2017 at 11:53 AM, Mishi2 said:

Aha. So you believe that people make ideas, and not the other way around. Then I wonder why FDR exists. Is Mr.Molyneux just preaching to the choir?

A good example of an ideology changing a people is the conversion of East-Timor. The differing ideology made them so incompatibel with their brothers on the same tiny island that they had to secede and become a new nation. Same island, same genetics, different religion. 

In hindsight and following a private conversation with another member, I admittedly did not consider that it goes both ways. However, it seems to be more of an exception than the rule. Do you have more examples to disprove that?

 

On 7/20/2017 at 11:53 AM, Mishi2 said:

I don't know whether or not "mongrel" is a derogatory term, so I'll leave it at that. I think ideology is the only thing we have. Even your alt-right mentality is an ideology. 

I don't think Paganism was anything like Christianity, and I think it takes a very uneducated person to claim so.

"So many" is not a number, so I cannot confirm. Degeneracy is pretty 'rampant' among Aryans as well, I would say. I mean... inviting a barbaric alien culture into your lands and having them take your women... what is wrong with you? Please don't take moral agency away and blame everything on the Semites either. That is just pathetic.

The very concept of "derogatory" is so gay to me that anyone who claims to be offended, I immediately consider that person to be a woman. Thankfully, it doesn't seem to be the case with you.

Ideology is all we have? What does that mean? Are you denying the existence of genetically predisposed behaviors?

As for paganism, I never said that it was like Paganism, and I'll take responsibility for mis-phrasing that as another member misunderstood what I meant, as well. What I meant to say is that under Paganism, we also found excuses to avoid degenerate R-selected behaviors.

As for inviting aliens, don't mistake my people for our ((( government ))). We did not consent to this madness, by the very definition of what a government is. But yes, those of us raised in our ((( education system ))) - mainly by women - have grown to be cucky Israel shills who support open borders only for whites. So we do have some whites to blame there, but to claim that whites woke up one morning and went self-genocidal is ludicrous, especially in the absence of evidence supporting that claim.

 

On 7/20/2017 at 11:53 AM, Mishi2 said:

Don't misquote me. I think a culture without an absolutist ideology deserves to die, nevertheless I have fought for your precious race probably more than you ever have. I have seen the Balkan Wall, I have been to the migrant camps, I have patrolled the streets of Budapest, and my taxes are going directly to the maintenance of the Balkan Wall. All while you Aryans are ferrying the Muslims in over the Mediterranean.
Before the Slavs joined us in the fight, there were only the three non-aryan groups, the Hungarians, the Maltese and Finns fighting Islam. What are you and your proud pure-blood Aryans doing in the meantime? I ask again: How exactly are you contributing in the struggle against Islam?

I don't think you understand what Christianity is. We are by no means pacifists. Sure, you can give your own cheek to get slapped, but you cannot offer up someone else's cheeks. Have you heard of the Just War Doctrine? No, not theory, but doctrine.
And just because I am ready to murder people, doesn't mean I do. It's a warzone here in Belgium. ...Also coming to a town near you!

Slavs are Aryans btw. In any case, what are we doing? Have you been off the grid for the past 2 years? Off the top of my head: street patrol, blocking the dindu ships, political parties, media war, education, founding sovereign territories, social ostracism, and economic / professional ostracism. 

As for Aryan involvement, I assure you that there will be grave punishment for these traitors. But don't forget that ((( he ))) who pays the bills, plays the tune. We won't forget that this time.

Also, if the Just War Doctrine is what you operate by then I guess I misunderstood what you were saying.

 

On 7/20/2017 at 11:53 AM, Mishi2 said:

At least some amount of data to back your points up would be welcome. Only a third of all catholics are white or "Aryan" as you would say. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/02/13/the-global-catholic-population/

Gladly.

Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you Christian; you also have to act like one. In fact, I would say that acting like one is sufficient enough, but for our purposes let's go with acting Christian and self-denominating. By that standard, the higher the crime rate, the less Christian it is, by definition. If your theory is correct, South America who is more devoutly Christian should have a lower crime rate, but that is not at all the case.

White countries, who are becoming increasingly secular, still have the lowest crime rates. This also goes against your claim.

 

EDIT: As for being called a racist, wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.

[Erwin]

@Mishi2 Don't notice the pattern below.

[M.2]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

In hindsight and following a private conversation with another member, I admittedly did not consider that it goes both ways. However, it seems to be more of an exception than the rule. Do you have more examples to disprove that?

The "devolution", as I call it, of the German peoples is the best example I can think of. Whatever it is that the poor germans believe now, it was not their thought-child, and it definitely wasn't a natural development. Someone else purposefully planted their current belief system into their heads. And today, they don't behave anything like their ancestors did before the Cold War. I think you know the details.
You may argue that this is simply a hiccup in the glorious history of the Aryan race, and that the general trajectory remains unchanged. Sure, I disagree, but I can see that argument.

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Ideology is all we have? What does that mean? Are you denying the existence of genetically predisposed behaviors?

I believe that ideology can override any genetic predetermination. If I didn't believe that, I would be much less hopeful about the future. There are tons of examples in the world where a single ethnic group was divided into two, with their circumstances differing only in the dominant ideology.
Now of course, I wouldn't say that ideology has nothing to do with genetics. As I have argued earlier, most ideologies have a preferred audience. 

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As for paganism, I never said that it was like Paganism, and I'll take responsibility for mis-phrasing that as another member misunderstood what I meant, as well. What I meant to say is that under Paganism, we also found excuses to avoid degenerate R-selected behaviors.

Right. That's a good point. Why do we need christianity if paganism is just as good, right? Do you have an idea why paganism folds so quickly in the presence of christianity?

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As for inviting aliens, don't mistake my people for our ((( government ))). We did not consent to this madness, by the very definition of what a government is. But yes, those of us raised in our ((( education system ))) - mainly by women - have grown to be cucky Israel shills who support open borders only for whites. So we do have some whites to blame there, but to claim that whites woke up one morning and went self-genocidal is ludicrous, especially in the absence of evidence supporting that claim.

I'm sorry to say, but more than 2/3 of Western Europe are still voting left, for open borders, for the EU. You can understand how it all looks from here, right? The information is out there. Literally everyone has access to the internet. I feel very sorry for them, but they are running out of excuses. I would have hoped that by 2017 they would rethink their stance on most issues.

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Slavs are Aryans btw. In any case, what are we doing? Have you been off the grid for the past 2 years? Off the top of my head: street patrol, blocking the dindu ships, political parties, media war, education, founding sovereign territories, social ostracism, and economic / professional ostracism. 

Yes, I know Slavs are Aryans. That is why I mentioned them separately. Even though they were a bit late to the party, we are glad to have them. 
I have been following the ongoings in the west very closely. November 8th was one of the best days of my life, and I know we owe it all to the whites in America. However, as of now, what we see from here is that our western neighbours are still sabotaging the Syrian civil war, still importing migrants over the mediterranean, still voting left. From our perspective, you are a net negative. I trust you can see it from our point of view.

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Gladly. Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you Christian; you also have to act like one. In fact, I would say that acting like one is sufficient enough, but for our purposes let's go with acting Christian and self-denominating. By that standard, the higher the crime rate, the less Christian it is, by definition. If your theory is correct, South America who is more devoutly Christian should have a lower crime rate, but that is not at all the case.

White countries, who are becoming increasingly secular, still have the lowest crime rates. This also goes against your claim.

Technically, baptism makes one christian. My claim was not that christian countries have less crime. My claim was that we have developed a UPB that actually works across cultures and ethnic lines. 

To address your point, your map is terribly flawed. Even in 2012, China, the most secular country on the planet besides North Korea, could not have had less homicides on average than Mongolia. Same goes for Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Algeria, and all the other champions of virtue.
This map is highly dependent on the given country's definition of homicide, and also on their ability to accumulate data.
If you wanted to study this mup fairly, you would compare countries that have similar definitions of homicide. For example, countries within the EU. Doing that however does not provide a clear correlation between crime and secularism. https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2017-mid&region=150

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Don't notice the pattern below.

How cordial of them to ommit that Soros is hungarian. 

I think I have made clear that I also find the involvement of the Jews in the fall of the west quite fishy. However, I am of the view that Israel, the state of the Jews, is on our side. We can have a debate on that too of course.

[Erwin]

16 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

You may argue that this is simply a hiccup in the glorious history of the Aryan race, and that the general trajectory remains unchanged. Sure, I disagree, but I can see that argument.

I don't actually think the trajectory is unchanged. I think that we may very well have some of our ethnicities mostly wiped out. I think the most likely scenario is that the first countries to go down, namely Germany, France, Holland, Belgium and Sweden will have their survivors escape to what remains of white countries, and thus, increasing the white population in those countries. Also, it is very likely that they will be so furious and blood thirsty (having survived a genocide, and all) that they will vote for whichever party is the closest thing to a right-wing death squad.

 

22 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

most ideologies have a preferred audience

then how do you know you're overriding a genetic predisposition? Don't you think it is more likely that you're simply rationalizing your pre-existing behavior with ideology?

 

38 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

Do you have an idea why paganism folds so quickly in the presence of christianity?

It was actually a slow process, but in any case I think it was because of the Israelite migration to Sparta, and subsequently Rome. If you actually track the lineage of Abraham's children, you'll see that the blessing of God was never passed down to the descendants of Judah (Jews), but rather to the descendants of Israel (Israelites). As the prophecy goes, the blessed peoples will settle all over the world. If memory serves me right, Judah was actually cursed.

There is a famous passage in the Bible where Jesus is waiting for the "gentiles" (aka Hellens), and when they finally arrive, he says "The time has come". Why was that so significant? Because they were the ones who continued Israel's bloodline, and so he may finally continue with his mission and return to God. Another thing that many people don't know is that there was a (Israelite) Spartan immigration to Rome prior to the empire (hence, Book of Romans).

So is it that surprising that a group of people would embrace an ideology that claims they were the chosen people?

 

53 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

I'm sorry to say, but more than 2/3 of Western Europe are still voting left, for open borders, for the EU. You can understand how it all looks from here, right? The information is out there. Literally everyone has access to the internet. I feel very sorry for them, but they are running out of excuses. I would have hoped that by 2017 they would rethink their stance on most issues.

Oh? When was the last time you searched for lesbian cuckery? Pretty sure never. Because unless you are given a reason to investigate something you don't, and reasonably so as you would otherwise be doing nothing but internet surfing.

Combine that with the fact that libs live in a reality bubble. Of course, you end up with this predicament. I think you underestimate the opposition... I do agree that we are at the moment a net negative, but the trend is absolutely on our side if you look at the momentum of the Alt Right.

 

1 hour ago, Mishi2 said:

My claim was that we have developed a UPB that actually works across cultures and ethnic lines. 

Very true, Christianity is really the only ideology that crossed those lines. And you're right about the map, I should've been more thorough.

 

1 hour ago, Mishi2 said:

They were pretty nice to ommit that Soros is hungarian. 

I think I have made clear that I also find the involvement of the Jews in the fall of the west quite fishy. However, I am of the view that Israel, the state of the Jews, is on our side. We can have a debate on that too of course.

Why is Hungarian descent relevant? As for the Jew debate, perhaps another time. I don't find it productive to engage in too many debates at a time.