How can I be successful, despite my Low IQ?

[mmillerj]

A part of me has always known that I am not that smart, I obviously have issues comprehending complex and abstract ideas, I've failed most of my college classes. And despite the garbage they teach I should have the capacity to at least pass in an environment designed to pump out useless people. With that in mind I decided to take an IQ test, about 7 or 8 months ago I took the Wechsler Adult IQ test with a Psychologist, and as I suspected its not that great. I was given a IQ range of 87 to 93 and it has not been easy to admit or accept the fact that I'm not good enough to participate as a successful member of society. 

There are things in life that I really want, and I don't think that I'm being selfish or unreasonable to want these things. I want a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house. The problem that I'm running into is that, knowing that my IQ is low and that I'm not smart, how can I reasonably expect to achieve anything that I listed when I lack the capability to comprehend and compete in complex jobs. I've looked at the type of jobs that other people with my IQ occupy. It's not a life I'm willing to live, its either; Live alone till I'm dead doing menial, repetitive, meaningless work for next to nothing. Or, Join the welfare bandwagon and live at the expense of everyone else.

Another problem is that, I'm not attractive. So, If I don't have or can't acquire the resources necessary to support a family, then what chance do I have of finding a decent woman?

And its really frustrating to know that, I have an IQ that would indicate that I won't be successful and that the only way I can live is at the expense of everyone else, its not right for me to take from someone else so I can justify my own existence, and whenever I bring this up to anyone they just say "IQ does not matter"; and Its immeasurably frustrating to hear that. It makes me angry. You can't say that we have an accurate way to measure intelligence then say that its not valid just to make me feel better. 

I don't know what to do, or what I can do, or If its right for me to find a wife that'll have children with me, if those children will end up like me or worse.  I'm trying really hard to find some reason or meaning to live and I can't find anything.

[Drew.]

IQ, Looks, and all of that other stuff are helpful, but it is not destiny. I've met tons of intelligent people who are losers because they have no drive or ambition.

What is your definition of success? Is it having lots of money? Is it having that family? Is it having a respected career? Is it having awards, achievements, publications, etc.? My definition of success is to live in accordance with who I am deep down, who I was meant to be with ideal parents and conditions. My definition of success is simply to be happy by loving myself regardless of my external circumstances, because I fundamentally do not have control over the external. The best I can do is influence the external.

It sounds to me like you're experiencing despair. Despair is a helpful emotion, when it is accurate. I think that your perspective is wrong and is causing this despair. I've made mistakes like this too. Still do, at times.

[Eudaimonic]

Here's a man with a low IQ.

Be happy, that's all that really matters my friend.

When you're laying on your death bed, you won't care what your IQ score was.

[Boss]

Well, if you like correlation research you can check the research that shows discipline is more important for success than IQ.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.152.3790&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

If success for you is having "a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house." then why wouldn't you think you can achieve that when even the low IQ nations have people with all those and more. 

The way I use correlation research is to raise awareness and take measures to improve what I can. Like if my family has a history of heart disease then I will take every measure I can to assure I tip the scale in my favor. There are many studies that show ways to lower my chance of heart disease, just because my family may correlate doesn't mean it's inevitable. Plus there are always exceptions to the IQ correlations. How do you know if you're not one of them? 

I can assure you, anything you want to be successful in there are ways to tip it in your favor. There is research that shows things you can do to improve your chances of success. IQ is just one of many. 

There is no research that shows IQ score = inevitability so there is no reason to feel like so

[mmillerj]

42 minutes ago, Drew Davis said:

IQ, Looks, and all of that other stuff are helpful, but it is not destiny. I've met tons of intelligent people who are losers because they have no drive or ambition.

What is your definition of success? Is it having lots of money? Is it having that family? Is it having a respected career? Is it having awards, achievements, publications, etc.? My definition of success is to live in accordance with who I am deep down, who I was meant to be with ideal parents and conditions. My definition of success is simply to be happy by loving myself regardless of my external circumstances, because I fundamentally do not have control over the external. The best I can do is influence the external.

It sounds to me like you're experiencing despair. Despair is a helpful emotion, when it is accurate. I think that your perspective is wrong and is causing this despair. I've made mistakes like this too. Still do, at times.

I realize that there are plenty of smart people who don't do anything. Absolutely correct, but the difference between myself and those who can but don't do. Is the fact that they can. I don't know how someone with the potential to do better than I can, with less effort would disprove the fact that I can't do what they could do.

I've thought about what a successful life would be like, its not so much that I would have lots of money, but enough money where I could save and support a family without having my wife work. It's not about having a respectable job, I don't know how to put it because I have a hard time articulating what it is that I would think of as a successful job or career. The best way I've managed to explain it would be, something that I can do competently and forget the passing of time. Its kind of like, listing to a book or reading, you're so involved with what your doing the 8 or 12 hours your working you don't notice every second that's gone by. The problem I'm having is that, there is nothing that I've found that I can do competently that would yield any value or meaning, the only job's I could do would require me to work for the government, getting paid at the expense of everyone else is not something I'm willing to do.

and I know I didn't ask to be born, its not like I got to sit in a mall and browse the "where ya wanna be born" catalog, If I did I certainly wouldn't of picked this. But I don't see how my perspective is wrong, if what I'm saying is objectively true, and its not like its completely deterministic, its more or less I've been given a hand of cards that I can only play 3 different ways, its my choice on how I want to play them, but all 3 ways that I could play my hand would involve Welfare state and/or being alone till I die. 

 

1 hour ago, Eudaimonic said:

Here's a man with a low IQ.

Be happy, that's all that really matters my friend.

When you're laying on your death bed, you won't care what your IQ score was.

 

There are exceptions to every rule, your implying that I am one, and I'm not. I don't have any talent that I could work on to do what Ali did, I've been wrestling with this for the past 8 months. 

If I'm not seeing any reason to live as it is, then what I'll think on my deathbed would technically be irrelevant.

 

1 hour ago, Boss said:

Well, if you like correlation research you can check the research that shows discipline is more important for success than IQ.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.152.3790&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

If success for you is having "a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house." then why wouldn't you think you can achieve that when even the low IQ nations have people with all those and more. 

The way I use correlation research is to raise awareness and take measures to improve what I can. Like if my family has a history of heart disease then I will take every measure I can to assure I tip the scale in my favor. There are many studies that show ways to lower my chance of heart disease, just because my family may correlate doesn't mean it's inevitable. Plus there are always exceptions to the IQ correlations. How do you know if you're not one of them? 

I can assure you, anything you want to be successful in there are ways to tip it in your favor. There is research that shows things you can do to improve your chances of success. IQ is just one of many. 

There is no research that shows IQ score = inevitability so there is no reason to feel like so

 

I've looked into that to, the Psychologist that is referring to "grit" would be just another word for the personality trait of conscientiousness, I've only taken the Myres-briggs personality test which really isn't science from what I read, I took it at the request of my school counselor when I was 20. 

and there is nothing that I know of that can prevent me from becoming stupider, or smarter for that matter, like you can prevent heart disease. you can even do jogging to improve heart health. And from what I've read, it looks like IQ stays about the same no matter what you do.

can you list those countries? the only ones I can think of that have a majority of low IQ folks are not doing to well. 

[RichardY]

1) Don't be an addict. (More of a symptom) Anything that promotes low consciousness behaviour, whether it be video games, people, food, gambling or any other drug.

2) Clear your thoughts, work through what you think and feel. Focus, redirect, identify, embrace, neutralise, define. Just came up with the acronym maybe there is a better one or process.

3) Live or work in an area where you have bargaining power.

[Eudaimonic]

It seems to me that, if you can argue back they way you have in these posts, your IQ is higher than what you got back.

At the very least you have good verbal/reasoning skills.

[Drew.]

18 hours ago, mmillerj said:

I don't know how someone with the potential to do better than I can, with less effort would disprove the fact that I can't do what they could do.

The best way I've managed to explain it would be, something that I can do competently and forget the passing of time. Its kind of like, listing to a book or reading, you're so involved with what your doing the 8 or 12 hours your working you don't notice every second that's gone by. The problem I'm having is that, there is nothing that I've found that I can do competently that would yield any value or meaning, the only job's I could do would require me to work for the government, getting paid at the expense of everyone else is not something I'm willing to do.

its more or less I've been given a hand of cards that I can only play 3 different ways, its my choice on how I want to play them, but all 3 ways that I could play my hand would involve Welfare state and/or being alone till I die.

I like your idea of a successful career. Something that provides and doesn't feel like work.

But you are so convinced that you cannot be successful because you scored low on an IQ test. This mood that you are in, I do not think it is the real you. How would a child respond if he was told he wasn't X enough? He would say, "Fuck you, I'm going to do what I want to do!" I think that is still inside of you. I think that's the perspective that you need to take. So what if you only have a hand of cards, who the fuck says that you have to follow the rules? This perspective is conclusion-oriented. You are basing your happiness/self-worth/etc on your circumstances. Circumstances change. If you're basing your happiness on having a fulfilling career? Well, does that mean that you would not be happy for the entirety of your life outside of that career? That when you were a child, you were doomed to misery? That when you retire, you are doomed to misery? That, if having a family is what you need to be happy, does that mean when you were a child, you were doomed to be unhappy? When your children move out, you are doomed to be unhappy? If you outlive your partner, you are doomed to be unhappy? That to me does not seem very stable or reliable. There has to be a better way where we can be happy throughout the entirety of our lives, regardless of our circumstances (so long as our needs are met).

What test did you even take? How do you know that test is valid? You seem to be quite literate for someone who scored below average on an IQ test. Both my parents are wicked intelligent, and they're barely literate when they write.

There are public sector jobs that provide a valuable service to people. It is advised that we try not to argue from effect, by from morality. In the free market, it could be better, for sure, but that does not discount the current value that we are receiving. The problem is how the services are being paid for, how they are being rendered, how there is a violent monopoly on it. If you wanted to work in hydrology (I think that's what it is, if not substitute something else appropriate), that is an incredibly valuable service, and it's pretty much all public sector. Most of health care is public sector or heavily subsidized as well. There are valuable services and procedures rendered by doctors, nurses, etc.

 

[mmillerj]

3 hours ago, RichardY said:

1) Don't be an addict. (More of a symptom) Anything that promotes low consciousness behaviour, whether it be video games, people, food, gambling or any other drug.

2) Clear your thoughts, work through what you think and feel. Focus, redirect, identify, embrace, neutralise, define. Just came up with the acronym maybe there is a better one or process.

3) Live or work in an area where you have bargaining power.

I thought I had submitted a reply to this one I don't know where it went. 

I like the 3rd point. I have not thought of that before.

I've tried to do the 2nd point, and i usually get stuck, I had more in the older post but don't know where it went. I wanted to know if you could give me examples. 

and on the 1st point, I don't drink/drugs, don't have any friends, don't gamble. I do have bad eating habits, same with video games, and that's something that I can improve.

 

31 minutes ago, Eudaimonic said:

It seems to me that, if you can argue back they way you have in these posts, your IQ is higher than what you got back.

At the very least you have good verbal/reasoning skills.

I have an average Verbal IQ of 103 , so yes I can use words, but the rest is low and I'm borderline retarded in others. I'll have to find the copy I was given.

 

16 minutes ago, Drew Davis said:

I like your idea of a successful career. Something that provides and doesn't feel like work.

But you are so convinced that you cannot be successful because you scored low on an IQ test. This mood that you are in, I do not think it is the real you. How would a child respond if he was told he wasn't X enough? He would say, "Fuck you, I'm going to do what I want to do!" I think that is still inside of you. I think that's the perspective that you need to take. So what if you only have a hand of cards, who the fuck says that you have to follow the rules? This perspective is conclusion-oriented. You are basing your happiness/self-worth/etc on your circumstances. Circumstances change. If you're basing your happiness on having a fulfilling career? Well, does that mean that you would not be happy for the entirety of your life outside of that career? That when you were a child, you were doomed to misery? That when you retire, you are doomed to misery? That, if having a family is what you need to be happy, does that mean when you were a child, you were doomed to be unhappy? When your children move out, you are doomed to be unhappy? If you outlive your partner, you are doomed to be unhappy? That to me does not seem very stable or reliable. There has to be a better way where we can be happy throughout the entirety of our lives, regardless of our circumstances (so long as our needs are met).

What test did you even take? How do you know that test is valid? You seem to be quite literate for someone who scored below average on an IQ test. Both my parents are wicked intelligent, and they're barely literate when they write.

There are public sector jobs that provide a valuable service to people. It is advised that we try not to argue from effect, by from morality. In the free market, it could be better, for sure, but that does not discount the current value that we are receiving. The problem is how the services are being paid for, how they are being rendered, how there is a violent monopoly on it. If you wanted to work in hydrology (I think that's what it is, if not substitute something else appropriate), that is an incredibly valuable service, and it's pretty much all public sector. Most of health care is public sector or heavily subsidized as well. There are valuable services and procedures rendered by doctors, nurses, etc.

 

There's a lot to tackle in that post and I'm not sure where to start. so I might ramble a bit. I took the Wechsler Adult IQ test, said it in my first post.

It's not so much that the career would give me happiness, the fact that I am paid to do something i think would imply that it's not something that I would do on my own accord without payment. So, its not like I wouldn't be happy while I was not working. it is the sense that I want to give my time to something worthwhile, which would you rather do? Sit on a line all day picking plastic from the trash at a dump, or making something of value that people want? (I don't know what would for me). It is the satisfaction you get when you leave work to go home to a family, knowing that what you sacrificed was well worth it, for you, your family, the community, so on and so forth. And it is not so much that when children leave the home I won't be happy, I'll be happy knowing that I and my theoretical wife gave them everything that they needed to be good and decent people, and so they can go and hopefully make more good and decent people. And If I were to outlive my partner I would not be miserable, sure I would grieve, but a lifetime spent with that person while it would probably be challenging would be well worth the effort. When I ask myself, when would I be okay death. The only manner in which I'd be okay with my own death is If I could do all the above. And that's where I'm stuck. I can't change my IQ, I can't change the state, and I will not have children if I'm employed by the government. "hey honey, you know what I said about the government, it's immoral, its wrong, but daddy gets paid by them." Not the sort of thing I want to tell my children. And why should I sacrifice my principles just to get by? Why should you be forced to pay me to provide a service that's 3 to 5 times more expensive than it would otherwise be?

and that's why I'm frustrated anyone that I try to talk to just says "welp lol, you can't be that stupid, you can use words, oh ya that test wasn't valid" When they've been proven to be pretty accurate.  see where I'm coming from. here is what I've found to be objectively true. 

People with an IQ of 87 to 93 occupy jobs that involve simple and repetitive tasks, work that will most likely be replaced by machines by the time i'm 40.

women don't date down, only up. either by looks, or resources. I have neither.

How can I still get to where I want to go, despite all the above. I can't think of anything. Its either the objective facts are wrong, or your telling me to ignore reality and be irrational. 

[Drew.]

2 hours ago, mmillerj said:

There's a lot to tackle in that post and I'm not sure where to start. so I might ramble a bit. I took the Wechsler Adult IQ test, said it in my first post.

It's not so much that the career would give me happiness, the fact that I am paid to do something i think would imply that it's not something that I would do on my own accord without payment. So, its not like I wouldn't be happy while I was not working. it is the sense that I want to give my time to something worthwhile, which would you rather do? Sit on a line all day picking plastic from the trash at a dump, or making something of value that people want? (I don't know what would for me). It is the satisfaction you get when you leave work to go home to a family, knowing that what you sacrificed was well worth it, for you, your family, the community, so on and so forth. And it is not so much that when children leave the home I won't be happy, I'll be happy knowing that I and my theoretical wife gave them everything that they needed to be good and decent people, and so they can go and hopefully make more good and decent people. And If I were to outlive my partner I would not be miserable, sure I would grieve, but a lifetime spent with that person while it would probably be challenging would be well worth the effort. When I ask myself, when would I be okay death. The only manner in which I'd be okay with my own death is If I could do all the above. And that's where I'm stuck. I can't change my IQ, I can't change the state, and I will not have children if I'm employed by the government. "hey honey, you know what I said about the government, it's immoral, its wrong, but daddy gets paid by them." Not the sort of thing I want to tell my children. And why should I sacrifice my principles just to get by? Why should you be forced to pay me to provide a service that's 3 to 5 times more expensive than it would otherwise be?

and that's why I'm frustrated anyone that I try to talk to just says "welp lol, you can't be that stupid, you can use words, oh ya that test wasn't valid" When they've been proven to be pretty accurate.  see where I'm coming from. here is what I've found to be objectively true. 

People with an IQ of 87 to 93 occupy jobs that involve simple and repetitive tasks, work that will most likely be replaced by machines by the time i'm 40.

women don't date down, only up. either by looks, or resources. I have neither.

How can I still get to where I want to go, despite all the above. I can't think of anything. Its either the objective facts are wrong, or your telling me to ignore reality and be irrational. 

Ah, my bad about the test thing.

Well, if that's all true, then that really does suck, for sure. I don't think that it is true--or rather, I do not think that it is the whole picture. But once again, if it is, that sucks a lot.

Add: At the very least, you believe that all of this stuff is true, and that does suck because you see only three ways to play the cards your dealt when really there might be more.

[Erwin]

@mmillerj If you're white, I would recommend that you move to a low-IQ country and impregnate their women.

In doing so, you will accomplish 3 things:

1. you get tons of sex, and protect your people from white genocide

2. You will have a competitive advantage in the kinds of work that the locals do, since your IQ is still higher than theirs. That's serious income potential right there.

3. you bless the low-IQ peoples with your higher IQ genes

[Boss]

21 hours ago, mmillerj said:

I've looked into that to, the Psychologist that is referring to "grit" would be just another word for the personality trait of conscientiousness, I've only taken the Myres-briggs personality test which really isn't science from what I read, I took it at the request of my school counselor when I was 20. 

and there is nothing that I know of that can prevent me from becoming stupider, or smarter for that matter, like you can prevent heart disease. you can even do jogging to improve heart health. And from what I've read, it looks like IQ stays about the same no matter what you do.

can you list those countries? the only ones I can think of that have a majority of low IQ folks are not doing to well. 

3

Discipline is the ability to exercise your free will. If you want to be successful in life the current research states how you exercise your free will is going to have a greater impact than IQ. Is your goal in being successful to become smarter now? well the current research still shows your ability to exercise your free will is more important than IQ as stated in the researched I linked 

IQ is correlations. It does not measure anything. A ruler can measure your height, An IQ test can show where you correlate. Since correlations don't equal causation that is a big difference. If you really want you can affect your IQ score with discipline as many people have and which still coincides with the research as having discipline and free will is more important for your success than anything else.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1041608016300231

Also, there is an interesting double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over trial that shows creatine can increase IQ
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1691485/


As far as listing countries that have people with "a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house"? which countries don't have those? every country I know has people with those. In fact, high IQ countries like Japan are the ones not having families anymore. And it can be related to what research shows to be more important which is their discipline and free will. 

North Korea IQ 106
South Korea IQ 106

Incredibly different outcomes.

For every success or failure you face in life, your free will and discipline is the factor that has the largest impact. If you fail in achieving "a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house" or "becoming smarter" Your free will and discipline were the largest factor. 

Ask this question to yourself, How disciplined have I been in achieving what I wanted? 

[mmillerj]

15 hours ago, Drew Davis said:

Ah, my bad about the test thing.

Well, if that's all true, then that really does suck, for sure. I don't think that it is true--or rather, I do not think that it is the whole picture. But once again, if it is, that sucks a lot.

Add: At the very least, you believe that all of this stuff is true, and that does suck because you see only three ways to play the cards your dealt when really there might be more.

That's why I'm here, after digging as deep as I can go that's what I found. What part of the picture am I missing?

[mmillerj]

13 hours ago, Boss said:

Discipline is the ability to exercise your free will. If you want to be successful in life the current research states how you exercise your free will is going to have a greater impact than IQ. Is your goal in being successful to become smarter now? well the current research still shows your ability to exercise your free will is more important than IQ as stated in the researched I linked 

IQ is correlations. It does not measure anything. A ruler can measure your height, An IQ test can show where you correlate. Since correlations don't equal causation that is a big difference. If you really want you can affect your IQ score with discipline as many people have and which still coincides with the research as having discipline and free will is more important for your success than anything else.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1041608016300231

Also, there is an interesting double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over trial that shows creatine can increase IQ
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1691485/


As far as listing countries that have people with "a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house"? which countries don't have those? every country I know has people with those. In fact, high IQ countries like Japan are the ones not having families anymore. And it can be related to what research shows to be more important which is their discipline and free will. 

North Korea IQ 106
South Korea IQ 106

Incredibly different outcomes.

For every success or failure you face in life, your free will and discipline is the factor that has the largest impact. If you fail in achieving "a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house" or "becoming smarter" Your free will and discipline were the largest factor. 

Ask this question to yourself, How disciplined have I been in achieving what I wanted? 

That has given me a lot to think about as well, I'll have to look over the study you linked.

What I do currently think is correct, is, that discipline can only give you the best of what your ability can give.

So, I can be the best production line assembler, i can be the best janitor. That sort of thing. There are limits on my ability to perform any job, but discipline can only give me the best of what I could potentially do. 

I want to thank everyone that's responded to my post, its a touchy subject not a lot of people want to talk about it, or give me their input. 

So if anyone has input any at all please post, the more ideas I'm exposed to the better the result will be, it helps me think. 

[mmillerj]

13 hours ago, Erwin said:

@mmillerj If you're white, I would recommend that you move to a low-IQ country and impregnate their women.

In doing so, you will accomplish 3 things:

1. you get tons of sex, and protect your people from white genocide

2. You will have a competitive advantage in the kinds of work that the locals do, since your IQ is still higher than theirs. That's serious income potential right there.

3. you bless the low-IQ peoples with your higher IQ genes

Not sure if that's a troll post. You made a good point someone else made though, that I had not thought of before.

Move to a place where I could have the competitive edge. 

[Erwin]

Just now, mmillerj said:

Not sure if that's a troll post.

No I'm not trolling at all. If you'd like me to elaborate on something, I'd be happy to.

[mmillerj]

Just now, Erwin said:

No I'm not trolling at all. If you'd like me to elaborate on something, I'd be happy to.

I have 10 minutes before I have to clock in for work. 

How is having tons of sex and children with lower iq people a good thing? If the result is more people like me, low iq with nothing to offer? 

I'm not saying you should force people to not have babies based on their iq, its their choice.

I'm saying, if I have the choice to have children, and those children would probably end up o  welfare or vote for it, how is that good? 

 

[Erwin]

3 minutes ago, mmillerj said:

I have 10 minutes before I have to clock in for work. 

How is having tons of sex and children with lower iq people a good thing? If the result is more people like me, low iq with nothing to offer? 

I'm not saying you should force people to not have babies based on their iq, its their choice.

I'm saying, if I have the choice to have children, and those children would probably end up o  welfare or vote for it, how is that good? 

You're IQ is much higher than your average dindu, for example (70 in Africa which is medically retarded). If you create half-dindus with them, the offspring will have higher IQs than the dindu average, and thus gives them a competitive advantage in making a living.

In essence, you can use your seed to alleviate world poverty, raise world IQ, continue our bloodline, and hopefully as the world whitens they will be less hostile towards Europeans. You are by no means, useless my friend. You can do a lot of good in this world.

[Boss]

5 hours ago, mmillerj said:

That has given me a lot to think about as well, I'll have to look over the study you linked.

What I do currently think is correct, is, that discipline can only give you the best of what your ability can give.

So, I can be the best production line assembler, i can be the best janitor. That sort of thing. There are limits on my ability to perform any job, but discipline can only give me the best of what I could potentially do. 

I want to thank everyone that's responded to my post, its a touchy subject not a lot of people want to talk about it, or give me their input. 

So if anyone has input any at all please post, the more ideas I'm exposed to the better the result will be, it helps me think. 

Anything you can think of you can achieve. As soon as you think of it the largest deciding factor in achieving it is your discipline / free will(study above). 

The only thing you can't achieve is the things you can't imagine which is irrelevant as those things you will never know of. Your ability to think of the things you want to achieve is direct proof in your ability to achieve it.

[RichardY]

On 7/23/2017 at 6:25 PM, RichardY said:

1) Don't be an addict. (More of a symptom) Anything that promotes low consciousness behaviour, whether it be video games, people, food, gambling or any other drug.

2) Clear your thoughts, work through what you think and feel. Focus, redirect, identify, embrace, neutralise, define. Just came up with the acronym maybe there is a better one or process.

3) Live or work in an area where you have bargaining power.

On 7/23/2017 at 10:52 PM, mmillerj said:

I like the 3rd point. I have not thought of that before.

I've tried to do the 2nd point, and i usually get stuck, I had more in the older post but don't know where it went. I wanted to know if you could give me examples. 

and on the 1st point, I don't drink/drugs, don't have any friends, don't gamble. I do have bad eating habits, same with video games, and that's something that I can improve.

On the 1st Point. Video games, Youtube, can be a big drain. Friends are essential, unless you are content in being a wildman. Hard to focus on being when you are addicted to other things.

On the 2nd point it's not something I've really thought through completely. Still very fuzzy in thinking. 

Focus - Bring into awareness, your current situation, emotionally and on a base survival level.
Redirect - Use any emotional energy towards some goal or wholeness of character.
Identify - Why do I feel this way?
Embrace -  To oppose is  to often build resistance. Instead bring what you would seek to oppose closer or cut out the ground beneath. For example like bringing an opponent in closer, in martial arts.
Neutralise - See alternative perspectives.
Define - Reach a definitive end in character.

Aesop Fable. The Sun and the North Wind. Sometimes it is more effective to indirectly persuade subtly and on an unconscious level, than to use force head on. 

MBTI

I get INTP. 

Introverted Thinking - Unconscious thinking, often come up with answers without consciously thinking, so in a maths test will not be consciously aware how the answer was worked out sometimes. Useful in sports such as Ping Pong. 
Ex Intuition - Searching for information, pattern matching.
In Sensing  - Prefer to keep with existing previous  known data and facts and integrate, rather than update.
Ex Feeling - More apt to feelings of others than self, but an inferior function.

More input orientated.

Compared to an INTJ, for example (The functions flip, but have different priorities) 

In Intuition - Using existing formulas or methods to solve problems.
Ex Thinking - Consciously working through problems. 
In Feeling – In touch more with own feelings. 
Ex Sensing – Open to new facts and information.

More output orientated.

[Drew.]

16 hours ago, mmillerj said:

That's why I'm here, after digging as deep as I can go that's what I found. What part of the picture am I missing?

I don't think that's really all that appropriate to really dive any further in a forum setting. I think that really challenging this stuff is more appropriate for therapy. A lot of people on the FDR forums do the friends-as-therapists model, and I do not quite agree with that either. We are friends with people that we are equals with. If we are broken, then our friends are going to be broken. Two broken people are going to be working on the psyche of another, which is a recipe for disaster. Alternatively, one person is not equal to the other, which means that there is an imbalance of the relationship, that there is no reciprocity. It's not a friendship. Whether you want to work with me or not, I'll offer you this. You have a lot of conclusions that are leading to this final conclusion, despair/hopelessness/whatever you want to call it. If those conclusions are accurate, then it would make sense that this final conclusion will follow. But, whether these conclusions are valid, that is another question. We, as human beings, are never really stuck (excepting terminal illness and death). We just think that we are stuck because we either cannot see or will not pursue other options. If your current strategies and beliefs aren't working, aren't leading to happiness, challenge them. Happiness is our natural state.

You said that women don't date down, they only date up. That's not true. Plenty of women settle. Of course, I'm sure that you don't want to be the man a woman has to "settle" for. Men don't want to commit down, either. Of course, this all has to do with perceived value. A better man might commit to a lesser woman because he does not recognize his value, so he grabs onto someone available and clings onto it for dear life. There are a lot of factors that go into the sexual market value, or whatever ever criteria that you wish to use, that we can use to compare others. You said that your looks aren't great. Would they improve if you groomed yourself better, wore better clothes, and began working out? Absolutely. You can increase your value. Personally, I don't want a woman who is better than or less than me, I want one who is approximately my equal. If that doesn't come, I am perfectly happy being on my own (baring some more inner work that I have to do). Another thing that you can do to increase your value is to get therapy. You said that you've been working on this on your own and this is what you have. We all need help from time to time to go further. Personally, I think therapy is the thing that makes a human being more valuable because it strips them of their scar tissue so that they can be more of who they were supposed to be and not who they became due to trauma. Additionally, a woman is plenty willing to go to some shithole apartment to bang a guy on a mattress on the floor with no cover if she's into him enough. That guy might have looks, but he doesn't have money, and the woman chooses him anyway. Assertiveness and sexuality is attractive to women.

Also, if you're comparing yourself to others, you're always going to be falling short. I compare myself to my past self. A dog is always going to fall short of "catness" compared to a cat.

As I have said, to really challenge this stuff, I do not think that it is appropriate in a forum. Regardless, I give this freely. I hope that it is a value to you. I you would wish to work further, reach out. I would be glad to work with you.

[M.2]

On ‎2017‎. ‎07‎. ‎22‎. at 8:37 PM, mmillerj said:

How can I be successful, despite my Low IQ?
There are things in life that I really want, and I don't think that I'm being selfish or unreasonable to want these things. I want a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house. The problem that I'm running into is that, knowing that my IQ is low and that I'm not smart, how can I reasonably expect to achieve anything that I listed when I lack the capability to comprehend and compete in complex jobs. I've looked at the type of jobs that other people with my IQ occupy. It's not a life I'm willing to live, its either; Live alone till I'm dead doing menial, repetitive, meaningless work for next to nothing. Or, Join the welfare bandwagon and live at the expense of everyone else.

I think it is very courageous of you to pose this question. 
Don't think I'm trying to diminish the value of your stated wishes, but your definition of success bothers me for some reason. There are very few people in my vicinity who have good looks, high IQ, hot wife, big property, well-paying job, beautiful children, etc all at once. In fact, if such were the goals of my parents, I probably wouldn't exist. To be even more honest, I don't like hanging around people whose definition of success is like yours.
I'm going to guess you live in the materialistic west, and that was probably what defined success for you. Not to tell you what to do, but have you thought about redefining your success? 

[mmillerj]

5 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

I think it is very courageous of you to pose this question. 
Don't think I'm trying to diminish the value of your stated wishes, but your definition of success bothers me for some reason. There are very few people in my vicinity who have good looks, high IQ, hot wife, big property, well-paying job, beautiful children, etc all at once. In fact, if such were the goals of my parents, I probably wouldn't exist. To be even more honest, I don't like hanging around people whose definition of success is like yours.
I'm going to guess you live in the materialistic west, and that was probably what defined success for you. Not to tell you what to do, but have you thought about redefining your success? 

I have thought about redefining it. I can see how that definition of success could imply that I wanted a hot wife, lots of money , and perfect children. But it's not about the material or the looks, or the perfect children. And I like that everyone here is challenging me, please do. It's helping a lot.

I've thought about that, its like "Am I good enough to be a father." If I'm not capable of providing for a family, how is me having children or wife, a good thing? If by me doing so, those children would suffer due to the lack of my ability? Does that help the community? Would that propigate the expansion of the state? If those children end up being like me or worse, or if the woman I mary leaves and takes everything I have, how is that good for anyone? 

That's where I'm stuck.  I've got to clock back in to work but I'll be back later. 

[_LiveFree_]

1 hour ago, mmillerj said:

I have thought about redefining it. I can see how that definition of success could imply that I wanted a hot wife, lots of money , and perfect children. But it's not about the material or the looks, or the perfect children. And I like that everyone here is challenging me, please do. It's helping a lot.

I've thought about that, its like "Am I good enough to be a father." If I'm not capable of providing for a family, how is me having children or wife, a good thing? If by me doing so, those children would suffer due to the lack of my ability? Does that help the community? Would that propigate the expansion of the state? If those children end up being like me or worse, or if the woman I mary leaves and takes everything I have, how is that good for anyone? 

That's where I'm stuck.  I've got to clock back in to work but I'll be back later. 

 

Are you religious? Do you attend a church regularly?

 

also, if the world wasn't the way it is, meaning you didn't feel an obligation to it, what would make you happy? When was the last time you helped someone?

[Eudaimonic]

I don't know if this has been suggested but I heard learning an instrument can increase your IQ up to 7 points, which is significant.

[Boss]

There is also a great book that Bill Gates recommends called Mindset by Carol S. Dweck. It is backed by researched and can give you some tools to achieve success.

The author also has done a ted talk
https://www.ted.com/talks/carol_dweck_the_power_of_believing_that_you_can_improve#t-24722

 

 

[mmillerj]

I apologize for not getting back to the posts when I said I would.  I've got a lot going on in my mind lately. 

So, I've found that when I go down a certain line of questions, its really painful, to point where I'm trying not to cry at work. I get to this one phrase and I can't go any further. I can't find anything else that's this painful. 

And all the issues I'm having all lead to this one thought. And whenever I try to dig deeper or try to find something else I lock up and feel numb.

How do you know when you've found the root of your problem? 

[RichardY]

"Let us reply to ambition that it is she herself that gives us a taste for solitude." Montaigne.

 

6 hours ago, mmillerj said:

How do you know when you've found the root of your problem? 

When you are content. Don't confuse, with comfortable though.

 

Happy - Happenstance ie luck. Only can be happy or unhappy, when acting towards some objective. "My life has been full of terrible misfortunes most of which never happened." Montaigne.

Bliss - Beyond happiness and contentment. "If there is such a thing as a good marriage, it is because it resembles friendship rather than love." Montaigne.

Love - What is freely given. "What a grand thing, to be loved! What a grander thing still, to love!" Victor Hugo.

 

Let us leave aside the tedious comparison between the solitary and the active life; and as for that fine statement under which ambition and avarice take cover, “That we are not born for our private selves, but for the public,” let us boldly appeal to those who are in the midst of the dance; and let them cudgel their conscience and say whether, on the contrary, the titles, the offices, and the hustle and bustle of the world are not sought out to gain private profit from the public. The evil means men use in our day to push themselves show clearly that the end is not worth much. Let us reply to ambition that it is she herself that gives us a  taste for solitude.

[villagewisdom]

The only issue I see is that you are focused on what you "don't have" rather than on what you "do have". Because you are focused on the "don't have" all that you "do have" is withering on the vine. Do you even know what you "do have"? I don't think I saw that in any of your postings.

It's really no different than anyone else on the planet. You take the cards you are dealt and play them. Some people are born with physical deformities. Some people get horrible diseases. Some people have accidents that leave them paraplegic and can no longer fulfil their previous dreams. They get past the past and make new dreams. 

Feeling entitled to the perfect life is a subtle thing. 

[ProRational]

On 7/22/2017 at 12:37 PM, mmillerj said:

A part of me has always known that I am not that smart, I obviously have issues comprehending complex and abstract ideas, I've failed most of my college classes. And despite the garbage they teach I should have the capacity to at least pass in an environment designed to pump out useless people. With that in mind I decided to take an IQ test, about 7 or 8 months ago I took the Wechsler Adult IQ test with a Psychologist, and as I suspected its not that great. I was given a IQ range of 87 to 93 and it has not been easy to admit or accept the fact that I'm not good enough to participate as a successful member of society. 

There are things in life that I really want, and I don't think that I'm being selfish or unreasonable to want these things. I want a family, children, a good wife, my own land, my own house. The problem that I'm running into is that, knowing that my IQ is low and that I'm not smart, how can I reasonably expect to achieve anything that I listed when I lack the capability to comprehend and compete in complex jobs. I've looked at the type of jobs that other people with my IQ occupy. It's not a life I'm willing to live, its either; Live alone till I'm dead doing menial, repetitive, meaningless work for next to nothing. Or, Join the welfare bandwagon and live at the expense of everyone else.

Another problem is that, I'm not attractive. So, If I don't have or can't acquire the resources necessary to support a family, then what chance do I have of finding a decent woman?

And its really frustrating to know that, I have an IQ that would indicate that I won't be successful and that the only way I can live is at the expense of everyone else, its not right for me to take from someone else so I can justify my own existence, and whenever I bring this up to anyone they just say "IQ does not matter"; and Its immeasurably frustrating to hear that. It makes me angry. You can't say that we have an accurate way to measure intelligence then say that its not valid just to make me feel better. 

I don't know what to do, or what I can do, or If its right for me to find a wife that'll have children with me, if those children will end up like me or worse.  I'm trying really hard to find some reason or meaning to live and I can't find anything.

The first IQ test was designed in World War One to separate English speakers from non-fluent ones, and to see if someone was capable enough to hold a rifle. Sadly most standardized IQ tests are not that much different from the original. Check this one out (https://www.edutopia.org/multiple-intelligences-assessment) it may not be an issue of book smarts, or you may not even give two craps about the garbage they are teaching in school.

[Flip]

I think you should take stock of any conceivable strengths that may have shown up in your life thus far and then think of ways to capitalize on them, and substitute hard work for any perceived or actual intelligence deficit, because grit really could make all the difference. If you don't try, you'll never know, and if you think it is hard to live with yourself now, imagine how hard it will be in 10, 20, 30 years if you haven't tried daringly. Don't be so afraid to fail that you don't try. I wish someone had given me that advice 20 years ago (or I wish I had listened -- perhaps I've forgotten someone did). Don't be afraid to fail over and over and over, because it's the process of striving greatly that may give your life meaning and dignity and serve as an inspiration to others. Don't lose heart. So many people don't even try. Maybe try volunteering and cultivating kindness and interest in helping others -- that can be an immense asset also and serve as an chance to network and find new strengths and opportunities. 

[mmillerj]

gotta think for a bit, I'll post it later.

[Pod]

IQ is just a general measurement I think.  Says nothing about an individual's abilities.  I've heard about people who are low IQ, like 80 and 70, being on boards of companies and making north of six figures.  IQ isn't determinism.  Anybody who practices at their thing is gonna get better and better. 

[Ninja]

It may be enough to convey your experience of human life through a favoured artistic medium. Your hopes, struggles and achievements along the way may inspire many people who will want to support you in continuing to provide them value. Work with what you've got rather than comparing yourself to others. We are our own worst critics and fascinate others more than we do ourselves. I'm looking forward to the insights your intentional self expressions will uncover.

[ofd]

Learn a craft with a union. Join the union.