Dealing With His Mother: Overreacting Or..?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

EDIT: I am talking about myself.

I have a friend, who is really having a hard time of it. I wasn't sure what to say to him, as this incident I'm about to describe was very revealing in lots of bad ways and I don't know how to answer it. 

Friend walks out and mentions to his mother some trivia about a show she was watching. 

She asks him not to mention trivia about the show, saying it confuses her.

He asked why. She started wringing her hands and practically said she was mentally retarded. 

He denied she was retarded, and then she started getting all passive-aggressive and sarcastic.

He asked her to stop being passive aggressive with her, and she got mad demanding "please be quiet".

Then she compared him to her own mother (his grandmother), whom he grew up hearing about how she beat her and abused her and neglected her, and the mother knew that comparison always hurt the son. He gave up and came to me.

Now I'm here asking "what the Hell? What do I do? What can I say? Sounds stupid but it clearly hints to a  much larger underlying problem. I know he's been considering defooing his mother once he's able to do so financially, but I don't know..."

Help me out, anyone wise and impartial about this sort of thing. I'm not an expert. I'm a layman who studies this sort of thing and tries to help himself as best he can, but I don't know how I can handle something so close to home. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Siegfried von Walheim

[Frederik]

What do you mean he came to you? What is he asking you for?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

10 minutes ago, Fred Black Fox said:

What do you mean he came to you? What is he asking you for?

He's like a Siamese twin--we're very close. He's asking for advice on how he should handle it and whether he should eventually deFOO.

[twinklingwinter]

Can he post here himself?

[Frederik]

14 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

He's like a Siamese twin--we're very close. He's asking for advice on how he should handle it and whether he should eventually deFOO.

I’m not sure why, but I get quite confused reading your posts in this thread. I am not critizising – I just wanted to give some feedback

This is interesting because normally I don’t get confused anymore.

I have read other posts of you and you seem like a very intelligent and insightful guy. I would not expect that you easily get confused, in general, either.

It seems, though, that your friend really does not know what to do at all. Because of that, he runs to you, asking you how to handle the situation.

Well, that is a weird question because there really is no answer to it. Handle it... "with care", maybe?

My sympathies go out to your friend! What you described is indeed a very troubling situation.

Could it be that your friend is really confused, but has never actually said to you anything like "I am really confused" or "I don’t know what to do"?

Instead of admitting that he really doesn’t know what is going on and what to do, he is pretending that there is some kind of predefined "plan of action" that he needs to know, or that "deFOOing" is a mere un-emotional thing that is like and takes as much time as moving to another town. It is anything but. It is only the sad conclusion after a long-enough battle trying to rescue a damaged relationship.

In other words, could it be that he is projecting his confusion onto you?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

4 hours ago, Fred Black Fox said:

I’m not sure why, but I get quite confused reading your posts in this thread. I am not critizising – I just wanted to give some feedback

This is interesting because normally I don’t get confused anymore.

I have read other posts of you and you seem like a very intelligent and insightful guy. I would not expect that you easily get confused, in general, either.

It seems, though, that your friend really does not know what to do at all. Because of that, he runs to you, asking you how to handle the situation.

Well, that is a weird question because there really is no answer to it. Handle it... "with care", maybe?

My sympathies go out to your friend! What you described is indeed a very troubling situation.

Could it be that your friend is really confused, but has never actually said to you anything like "I am really confused" or "I don’t know what to do"?

Instead of admitting that he really doesn’t know what is going on and what to do, he is pretending that there is some kind of predefined "plan of action" that he needs to know, or that "deFOOing" is a mere un-emotional thing that is like and takes as much time as moving to another town. It is anything but. It is only the sad conclusion after a long-enough battle trying to rescue a damaged relationship.

In other words, could it be that he is projecting his confusion onto you?

All right, I will confess that I am actually talking about myself but I wanted to hide that fact because I was very emotionally charged when I first typed the post and didn't want to reveal that I was talking about myself--I suppose for reasons without basis, although ironically I've demonstrated myself a liar. 

This incident happened with me and I was simultaneously contacting my therapist. His advice was essentially to keep my head down and either "don't escalate" or disengage if I sense something like that again until I am financially independent with my work and able to live on my own. I am inclined to follow his advice. 

Interesting how it's when I'm dishonest that I am confusing. I suppose I should be proud of the fact that my dishonesty is obvious since it hints that I am never dishonest. Of course, it also reminds me how I might as well never be dishonest unless my life depends on it (literally--like the killer asking for me or my family members hypothetical). 

[Frederik]

6 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

All right, I will confess that I am actually talking about myself but I wanted to hide that fact because I was very emotionally charged when I first typed the post and didn't want to reveal that I was talking about myself--I suppose for reasons without basis, although ironically I've demonstrated myself a liar. 

This incident happened with me and I was simultaneously contacting my therapist. His advice was essentially to keep my head down and either "don't escalate" or disengage if I sense something like that again until I am financially independent with my work and able to live on my own. I am inclined to follow his advice. 

Interesting how it's when I'm dishonest that I am confusing. I suppose I should be proud of the fact that my dishonesty is obvious since it hints that I am never dishonest. Of course, it also reminds me how I might as well never be dishonest unless my life depends on it (literally--like the killer asking for me or my family members hypothetical). 

Oh, well, that explains why you were so emotionally invested in your friend’s issues

I had not considered before the fact of the financial dependence. It is obvious that you don’t have as much free choice as you would need to act on your conscience.

I believe your therapist’s advice is sound. It makes sense to not challenge if that threatens the fulfillment of more fundamental needs.

When it comes to deFOOing, I have my own experience with that. One thing I would say is that you can always have conversations with her. She will always be there if you want to talk to her, and so there is no immediate need to focus on your relationship with your mother now, instead of when you are in the position that is, I would argue, necessay in order to have satisfying conversations that can give you emotional closure: A relative equality in power.

Therefore, I would say there is practically no loss if you don’t engage now, if you abstain from trying to be honest with her... You can always do that later!

Does that help?

I am sure you have read RTR?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

4 minutes ago, Fred Black Fox said:

Oh, well, that explains why you were so emotionally invested in your friend’s issues

I had not considered before the fact of the financial dependence. It is obvious that you don’t have as much free choice as you would need to act on your conscience.

I believe your therapist’s advice is sound. It makes sense to not challenge if that threatens the fulfillment of more fundamental needs.

When it comes to deFOOing, I have my own experience with that. One thing I would say is that you can always have conversations with her. She will always be there if you want to talk to her, and so there is no immediate need to focus on your relationship with your mother now, instead of when you are in the position that is, I would argue, necessay in order to have satisfying conversations that can give you emotional closure: A relative equality in power.

Therefore, I would say there is no loss if you don’t engage now, if you abstain from trying to be honest with her... You can always do that later!

Does that help?

Yes, that helps. On one hand I realize there's no immediate danger (I'm lucky then most on this board I think) but at the same time, it's hard. However he told me to change the way I think about it. Do I literally have a hole in my heart (as an example of a metaphor)? No. Is confronting her over little things really worth the trouble? Not now at least. I'd be better off disengaging when I'm frustrated than escalating and exhausting myself pointlessly. Perhaps things can change once I've made myself a real man by owning the roof over my head, but until then I may as well just accept things as they are and work with it.

4 minutes ago, Fred Black Fox said:

I am sure you have read RTR?

I haven't, but I have heard it mentioned and talked about many times in the call-in-shows so I have some layman's knowledge about RTR, but until I properly set the time to read it I can't say I'm confident about it and my memory about the subject is rough. I remember "taking mental control and remembering myself in the conversation"--a form of self-awareness, I think. I know there was some mention of a "false self", a scab wound we feel like we have when someone else's ire remains with us. Identifying when we are feeling something true to us as compared to feeling the "scab" was something I remembering being important.

Then there was the metaphor of Simon the Boxer, who I think was continuously getting into fights as a way of acting out and repeating his abuse as a child.

I might be able to dedicate some time reading it soon. I've been awfully busy lately, work aside. However I'd like some confirmation/correction about the statements I've made since I don't know/think if I am right.

[Frederik]

32 minutes ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Yes, that helps. On one hand I realize there's no immediate danger (I'm lucky then most on this board I think) but at the same time, it's hard. However he told me to change the way I think about it. Do I literally have a hole in my heart (as an example of a metaphor)? No. Is confronting her over little things really worth the trouble? Not now at least. I'd be better off disengaging when I'm frustrated than escalating and exhausting myself pointlessly. Perhaps things can change once I've made myself a real man by owning the roof over my head, but until then I may as well just accept things as they are and work with it.

Sounds good!

32 minutes ago, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I haven't, but I have heard it mentioned and talked about many times in the call-in-shows so I have some layman's knowledge about RTR, but until I properly set the time to read it I can't say I'm confident about it and my memory about the subject is rough. I remember "taking mental control and remembering myself in the conversation"--a form of self-awareness, I think. I know there was some mention of a "false self", a scab wound we feel like we have when someone else's ire remains with us. Identifying when we are feeling something true to us as compared to feeling the "scab" was something I remembering being important.

Then there was the metaphor of Simon the Boxer, who I think was continuously getting into fights as a way of acting out and repeating his abuse as a child.

I might be able to dedicate some time reading it soon. I've been awfully busy lately, work aside. However I'd like some confirmation/correction about the statements I've made since I don't know/think if I am right.

I personally define "RTRing" as "Openly and curiously expressing and examining one's emotional state in the moment in order to increase self-knowledge and the quality of relationships."

With RTR you can find out why emotions come up and and also if they are actually yours, like with the confusion that I thought your friend projected onto you by never admitting that he was confused (i.e. he’d unconsciously deny his confusion, pretend nothing is happening and by that confusing you). Or if your own emotions are "true" or come from your false self, like you mentioned.

Simon grew up learning how to cope best with a violent and unstable environment (his family), so that is really all he ever knew. As an adult, his environment naturally shifted towards more freedom and peace, but that made him terribly anxious. Therefore he went out looking for something similar, and the ring to him literally felt familiar. Having to cope with violence directed at him makes him feel in control once more.

But RTR is about much more, of course. And it’s very nice to listen to, too – Stef is a great voice actor

[Siegfried von Walheim]

1 minute ago, Fred Black Fox said:

Sounds good!

I personally define "RTRing" as "Openly and curiously examining and expressing one's emotional state in the moment in order to increase self-knowledge and the quality of relationships."

With RTR you can find out why emotions come up and and also if they are actually yours, like with the confusion that I thought your friend projected onto you by never admitting that he was confused (i.e. he’d unconsciously deny his confusion, pretend nothing is happening and by that confusing you). Or if your own emotions are "true" or come from your false self, like you mentioned.

Simon grew up learning how to cope best with a violent and unstable environment (his family), so that is really all he ever knew. As an adult, his environment naturally shifted towards more freedom and peace, but that made him terribly anxious. Therefore he went out looking for something similar, and the ring to him literally felt familiar. Having to cope with violence directed at him makes him feel in control once more.

Thank you for that. I am definitely interested in hearing the audiobook. 

1 minute ago, Fred Black Fox said:

But RTR is about much more, of course. And it’s very nice to listen to, too – Stef is a great voice actor

I know 

Stefpai has a great voice. I'm glad it puts it to great use. 

[Frederik]

Cool! Thank you for this pleasurable conversation. It was a lot of fun

[Frederik]

Oh, and...

21 hours ago, twinklingwinter said:

Can he post here himself?

 

He is already here.

 

*dramatic chipmunk music*

[S1988]

I was a little surprised that you were talking about yourself all of this time, but I can see where you're coming from. Sometimes, it's nerve-wracking to talk about you problems. 

Have you thought about getting a roommate? It's a way for you to save money without living with your mother.

[Siegfried von Walheim]

4 minutes ago, S1988 said:

I was a little surprised that you were talking about yourself all of this time, but I can see where you're coming from. Sometimes, it's nerve-wracking to talk about you problems. 

Have you thought about getting a roommate? It's a way for you to save money without living with your mother.

I'm a big introvert and I don't like the idea of living with a stranger. I'd rather just buckle down and make my peace for the while and focus on my work and then move out once I can afford a house. I don't think I should spend money when I don't have to. I value my privacy as well.