Inconvenient Morality

[GatoVillano]

I

[Sir Exotic]

Good to know you'll be staying away from your brother when you have children!

Since you didn't have a question, I'll just respond with a similar situation I experienced:

In the Netherlands, where I come from, there are more bikes than people and everyone has at least one because it's a very common and convenient way to get around (we have bicycle paths everywhere and cities are very small compared to bigger countries.) Because bikes are so common, the stealing of bikes is also very common. If you live in the Netherlands, just expect that have at least one bike stolen. When I was younger, I had my bike stolen 2 or 3 times.

Now the subject of the matter: my parents. My parents would tell me to "just steal someone else's bike, everyone does it", without recognizing the complete lack of morals in their thinking. They didn't think about the fact that I you might be stealing someone's bike who never stole a bike themselves. Or, even more obvious, the fact that you're not stealing from the person who stole from you, so morally it can't be justified. Other justifications (from my mother) were things like "But it's not locked, someone else will take it anyway" or "It's their own fault for not locking it".

I think we must have stolen 2-3 bikes in return with this thinking. Of course I felt bad, but was influenced enough by my parents to not follow my conscience. Around the time I turned 16 I started growing up and developing my own morals and standards, and objected to their way of thinking, and that resulted in preventing more bikes stolen by more parents (or through me). But I just can't forget this one time, when my (then) step-father stole a parent's bike which wasn't locked by putting it in his car and driving home with it. The reason why I emphasized that it was a parent's bike was because it had a kiddy-seat on the back, meaning this parent used the bike to take their kid to school, etc. He did say he felt bad about it, but apparently not enough to stop himself...

I stand by you that this world is a place lacking of real morals, and the reason why people do follow or demand morals, is only for their own (malign) self-interest.

Its truly saddening that the most common objection to having a society based on freedom (Anarchism; Free Market; Peaceful Parenting; UPB/NAP) is that people are like this, but the people making this objection fail to recognize that the people advocating for this kind of freedom are NOT the ones they should be objecting to. The people that object to this philosophy are the ones who ought to be objected to.

Thanks for sharing your story

[GatoVillano]

8 hours ago, Jos van Weesel said:

Good to know you'll be staying away from your brother when you have children!

Since you didn't have a question, I'll just respond with a similar situation I experienced:

In the Netherlands, where I come from, there are more bikes than people and everyone has at least one because it's a very common and convenient way to get around (we have bicycle paths everywhere and cities are very small compared to bigger countries.) Because bikes are so common, the stealing of bikes is also very common. If you live in the Netherlands, just expect that have at least one bike stolen. When I was younger, I had my bike stolen 2 or 3 times.

Now the subject of the matter: my parents. My parents would tell me to "just steal someone else's bike, everyone does it", without recognizing the complete lack of morals in their thinking. They didn't think about the fact that I you might be stealing someone's bike who never stole a bike themselves. Or, even more obvious, the fact that you're not stealing from the person who stole from you, so morally it can't be justified. Other justifications (from my mother) were things like "But it's not locked, someone else will take it anyway" or "It's their own fault for not locking it".

I think we must have stolen 2-3 bikes in return with this thinking. Of course I felt bad, but was influenced enough by my parents to not follow my conscience. Around the time I turned 16 I started growing up and developing my own morals and standards, and objected to their way of thinking, and that resulted in preventing more bikes stolen by more parents (or through me). But I just can't forget this one time, when my (then) step-father stole a parent's bike which wasn't locked by putting it in his car and driving home with it. The reason why I emphasized that it was a parent's bike was because it had a kiddy-seat on the back, meaning this parent used the bike to take their kid to school, etc. He did say he felt bad about it, but apparently not enough to stop himself...

I stand by you that this world is a place lacking of real morals, and the reason why people do follow or demand morals, is only for their own (malign) self-interest.

Its truly saddening that the most common objection to having a society based on freedom (Anarchism; Free Market; Peaceful Parenting; UPB/NAP) is that people are like this, but the people making this objection fail to recognize that the people advocating for this kind of freedom are NOT the ones they should be objecting to. The people that object to this philosophy are the ones who ought to be objected to.

Thanks for sharing your story

Thanks for reading my story. I decided to remove it today because I felt uncomfortable having talked about it. Originally, I wanted to talk about how people have a sense of morality that is relative that they can switch on and off when they feel like it and that they will adopt the narrative that will allow them to feel morally and intellectually superior to everyone. But having real morals is not convenient. We do things because they are right, because we have empathy and because we know that other people have value. 

I was chocked by the fact that so many people willingly decide to promote murder, torture, tyranny and basically stripping away freedom from hundreds of thousands of people, just because they want a cheap vacation. 

Like you, I am a libertarian. I believe in the free market and I believe that you vote with your dollar. Humans, corporation and government respond to incentives. When people spend their money in Cuba, they vote for tyranny. 

Oh, and if I ever go do some bicycle in the netherlands, I'll be sure to lock my bike =P. Thanks for the chat =)