Let's talk dating!

[meetjoeblack]

4 hours ago, barn said:

Hi @meetjoeblack

Thanks for writing to my questions. Not sure how to follow-up hereafter so for now I'll just respond to what you're asking.

I'm in my early 30s, male - apache attack helicopter. Giggles.

I'm not married, was before once. I can see it happening again but have a great deal of testing/'knowing' to do, prior. Currently, making progress laying the never lain foundation of my life - being centered, while improving industriousness simultaneously. (So glad, I took the red pill and internalised the 'Pay me now or pay me later, but you will pay me!' principle... otherwise I'd be still probably busy at upholding a collection of cognitive dissonances.) I went into it(marriage) due to my own unexamined false set of hopes, avoidance and lack of guidance /bad guidance. Also, to a great degree out of hunger for a true connection, never had...and I lied to myself because I was impatient and ignorant with my own needs. Luckily I exited before having a child and wow (!) how quickly my previous relationships deteriorated with little to no effort. Feels a lot lighter too. Importantly this taught / will always remind me of the values of virtues/significance, their lack of. 

I don't feel like dating but that also means I'm more into R.T.R. which has the possibility of crossover... I'll see if I'm ready to go over the bridge, once I get there. Priorities come first for me.

I know that there will be fantastic opportunity, I can tell I would crumble if I missed it out of not having prepared/done what I could. The way I see it, 'I already got two written warnings'... Am smart enough to stop making the same mistakes over and over and finally work with my 'meco' system. Reason & evidence, hard work at therapy... etc. worth it all, especially when knowing "we are all slowly dieing!".

Would you believe after having read me that I'm a pretty upbeat guy, all things considered?

Barnsley

Thanks for the continued chatter. I enjoy the conversation with a fellow FDR(er) and free thinker.

See, I just turned 30 and I've honestly been single for a significant portion of my life. Furthermore, I cannot imagine getting married, divorced, and then, contemplating that crap shoot again. You sir must have a iron chin. That 'pay me now or pay me later' sentiment was taught to me by my father (RIP). I've witnessed several men be it friends from childhood or fella puas/inner circle/lair gents who checked out the sec a semi decent woman looks their way. I know one way or another, the outcome usually doesn't end well for men. The same woman during top form SMV is typically bartering the pussy bomb for alpha male attention. Usually, the product of a single mom house hold accompanied by banished fatherhood.

Please do yourself a favor and read, "Way of the Superior man" by David Deida. Given the cuckoldry culture we live in, the "don't need a man" feminist jargon (until of course she does, hits the wall, baby rabies, SMV plummets, War, etc), this gender neutral rubbish in society, the promo of single mother victimhood, promo for 'sloot gonna sloot.' He doesn't take a MGTOW push. He is a spiritual teacher but is less new age and emphasizes the role of masculinity, having a purpose, and living at your edge. Worthy read.

Have you ever tried pickup? What is R.T.R? Part of priorities is in sync with Deida, with having self knowledge, value, purpose, direction, a path in life etc. Live at your edge. Jordan Peterson uses the ying/yang chaos/harmony analogy of walking that tight rope. Your edge is that line of fear. Take this forward in your career, in approaching a beautiful woman, at the gym lifting heavy weight, and going for your dreams. I swear to God, I am doing this to the best of my abilities, and yet, it is not easy. Listening to the biblical series By Jordan Peterson has been extremely insightful. There is value to be had through marriage but, women are not really adding value, depreciating asset, and with the fallout of a divorce, its daddy government free parade of money before jumping on the carousel.

I am working on a entrepreneurial endeavor of my own. I wish entered into this mindset but, it has established the reason for being off the hamster wheel of 9-5 and making other people rich. Anyway, I am meditating, reading about the yoga sutras, Sanskrit, Bhagavad Gita, exploring my consciousness, self knowledge, reason, and evidence. Meeting a woman on this line of free thinking would be ideal. Someone seeking self knowledge.

 

IMHO, the woman who is a free thinker, traditional, YOUNG, top form SMV etc. is the archetype for getting the ring.

[smarterthanone]

On 11/14/2017 at 3:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

IMHO, the woman who is a free thinker, traditional, YOUNG, top form SMV etc. is the archetype for getting the ring.

I hope you like being single. So few people, including men, are free thinkers to a significant degree while they are young. I think it can be summed up in the famous quote "If a person is not a liberal when he is twenty, he has no heart; if he is not a conservative when he is forty, he has no head." It takes experience to come to some conclusions and time to come to others. Neither of which a young woman has had in abundance if she is still young.

[barn]

Here we go

On 11/14/2017 at 9:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

Thanks for the continued chatter. I enjoy the conversation with a fellow FDR(er) and free thinker.

You must be doing something right, otherwise I wouldn't bother at all. (neutral, still do take credit if you see it justified)

On 11/14/2017 at 9:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

I cannot imagine getting married, divorced, and then, contemplating that crap shoot again.

Oh, gosh. Don't, if you can. Of course not, no one would do such things if they did what it took. Problem is when we overlook the 'inner round table of highly skilled professionals in the subject of you'. It's all about 'dancing when the tune's on'.  Mistakes are an integral part of life, what you do afterwards aren't given you own them. Messing up is normal, how you act as a result isn't with integrity. It could be only my imagination but do I detect fear of messing up? I don't know, you'll tell me but I'm pretty sure it isn't an unbased discomfort if you do.

<Logically, caged animals don't cause rivers of sweat, only the wild the uncontrollable roaming things we fear instinctively. You can't end up in a trap if you know what that looks like. You will just step over them... 0 accidents unless you let it but that's on you deciding to lower your standards.>

Thumbs up to your dad (R.I.P. - Sir) ,surely worth honoring his advice with living memory.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

I've witnessed several men be it friends from childhood or fella puas/inner circle/lair gents who checked out the sec a semi decent woman looks their way.

When you break it down to it's barebones... they simply lowered their standards and 'got what they paid for'...nothing more, nothing less.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

I know one way or another, the outcome usually doesn't end well for men. The same woman during top form SMV is typically bartering the pussy bomb for alpha male attention. Usually, the product of a single mom house hold accompanied by banished fatherhood.

Why would I care about the sea of mindless, aimless, virtue allergic examples of my own sex? There's no value in it for me to pay attention to them. It only angers, disgusts and makes me sigh. None of those sad souls will want to make me copy/replicate/pry boundaries TO SELF ACTUALISE in this 1 single - limited life I was granted against the sea of other swimming sperm that competed alongside for '15 minutes of fame'... not one minute I will allot.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

Please do yourself a favor and read, "Way of the Superior man" by David Deida.

It's intriguing, not promising anything plus I have a few books in line. I did however note it down. Thanks and also for giving me a reason to read with it.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

Have you ever tried pickup? What is R.T.R?

No, I don't. I wouldn't since my preference is 'forever'. The best I could do in pickup is 1 pickup. Because if I do commit again, that means I can't /won't ever will be able to do better.

R.T.R. - real time relationships - yet another eye opener, independently btw it was written by Stefan Molyneux. Curious, we've been doing it to a certain degree and I believe it's very much how you experience genuine connection with anyone if they choose to.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:39 PM, meetjoeblack said:

I am working on a entrepreneurial endeavor of my own. I wish entered into this mindset but, it has established the reason for being off the hamster wheel of 9-5 and making other people rich. Anyway, I am meditating, reading about the yoga sutras, Sanskrit, Bhagavad Gita, exploring my consciousness, self knowledge, reason, and evidence. Meeting a woman on this line of free thinking would be ideal. Someone seeking self knowledge.

All good things come to those who wait... bs, right?! Well, done mate! You're going to reap what you sow, more power to you!

My gentle reminder is to supplement all that 'caffeined up - squirrel speedy' learning with ample reflection and opportunity to sink in well. You probably know this, don't mean to annoy you by saying: Retention is more valuable than the amount of books you've consumed.

All the best @meetjoeblack!

Barnsley

[meetjoeblack]

5 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

I hope you like being single. So few people, including men, are free thinkers to a significant degree while they are young. I think it can be summed up in the famous quote "If a person is not a liberal when he is twenty, he has no heart; if he is not a conservative when he is forty, he has no head." It takes experience to come to some conclusions and time to come to others. Neither of which a young woman has had in abundance if she is still young.

For me, I found myself in an incredible place in my life and then, I experience great tragedy in my life. Women give zero fucks. Nobody cares. Maybe close family or friends but, this life is not all rainbows and gum drops. I am making the most at being single. I am putting myself out there. Obv, some days/nights go better then others. Well, I've met some pretty awesome women who are young, who have had some life experience, faced tragedy head on, and came out stronger rather than this victichood culture we have going in full force. I completely agree with you.

I am more curious as to your actual approach and how you are meeting these younger women. I basically talk to lots of people. Guys are friends, wings, partners to go to the bar, club, and gym with. Girls are well potential dates, ons, fwb, fuck buddies, friends, etc. Anyway, curious is curious????

[meetjoeblack]

4 hours ago, barn said:

Quote

Here we go

You must be doing something right, otherwise I wouldn't bother at all. (neutral, still do take credit if you see it justified)

Oh, gosh. Don't, if you can. Of course not, no one would do such things if they did what it took. Problem is when we overlook the 'inner round table of highly skilled professionals in the subject of you'. It's all about 'dancing when the tune's on'.  Mistakes are an integral part of life, what you do afterwards aren't given you own them. Messing up is normal, how you act as a result isn't with integrity. It could be only my imagination but do I detect fear of messing up? I don't know, you'll tell me but I'm pretty sure it isn't an unbased discomfort if you do.

One of my friends is a real bad ass. Super stoic. Experienced quite a bit of tragedy in his life and he is a mental and physical juggernaut. He blew me away in saying, that if this was the wild west, and brothels were legal, why the fuck would anybody get married? I was jaw dropped by the comment. He has a better close ratio then myself. I remember last summer at a music festival, I pointed out some girls checking him out. He said he banged already. I asked which. He said all of them lol

To see someone like this, just rampaging single life, and still, in the mindset of not seeing the value of marriage if brothels were around, it sort of put things into perspective. I saw another friend made me aware that even the hottest of strippers are turning tricks for the right price. Again, I don't want to live on this planet anymore. I know everything is super PC these days. Promo for 'sloot gonna sloot' and then, "man up. Give her the ring" when SMV craters. I sort of see what my buddy is saying.

Quote

 

<Logically, caged animals don't cause rivers of sweat, only the wild the uncontrollable roaming things we fear instinctively. You can't end up in a trap if you know what that looks like. You will just step over them... 0 accidents unless you let it but that's on you deciding to lower your standards.>

Thumbs up to your dad (R.I.P. - Sir) ,surely worth honoring his advice with living memory.

 

Thanks man. He had more experience as a entrepreneur. He always pushed the importance of biz and I never saw it. As I got older, I see it, and there is something to be said of someone that is able to generate that income. Lower your standards? How do you mean? Quite honestly, I think this is what fucks a lot of men over. They find a semi decent, butter face or 6, give her the ring, and get cucked/divorced. Little does he know, little miss butter face was like tarzan swing from cawk to cawk in her youth. A budd of mine that is married even gave me the "their biological clock" speech. The thing is, dude sees the woman that gave him her teens, her 20s, and biological clock means something. To me, this doesn't mean anything. yes, I comprehend the realities here but, I am not captain save a hoe. I was super beta as a teen and in my early twenties. Those days are over.
 

Quote

 

When you break it down to it's barebones... they simply lowered their standards and 'got what they paid for'...nothing more, nothing less.

Why would I care about the sea of mindless, aimless, virtue allergic examples of my own sex? There's no value in it for me to pay attention to them. It only angers, disgusts and makes me sigh. None of those sad souls will want to make me copy/replicate/pry boundaries TO SELF ACTUALISE in this 1 single - limited life I was granted against the sea of other swimming sperm that competed alongside for '15 minutes of fame'... not one minute I will allot.

 

Listening to Jordan Peterson speak of the biblical series, extrapolating the meaning, and pulling from the allegory, its helped me find meaning in my own struggles. I listened to Peterson depict the chaos in the time of Noah. It is likely my own anxieties and fears but, I can relate to this (may recall me describing it like trench warfare). The dating pool is pretty chaotic. I think we all need to make are arc, have our covenant with God, follow our true north, give our gifts, and leave the it all out there.

There was a woman age 23 seeking advice and help. Said she was sleeping around, liberal, and woke up from the madness. It does exist. Its just few and far between.

It's intriguing, not promising anything plus I have a few books in line. I did however note it down. Thanks and also for giving me a reason to read with it.

Quote

No, I don't. I wouldn't since my preference is 'forever'. The best I could do in pickup is 1 pickup. Because if I do commit again, that means I can't /won't ever will be able to do better.

I am not following. RSD is basically, spam approach, date lots, hookup, have options, choice, and then, pick not from out of scarcity the way most men do. Marry cratered SMV, raise the alpha male's children, and when she leaves, the woman is the victim plus gets your resources. Note my ambivalence!

R.T.R. - real time relationships - yet another eye opener, independently btw it was written by Stefan Molyneux. Curious, we've been doing it to a certain degree and I believe it's very much how you experience genuine connection with anyone if they choose to.

Quote

 

All good things come to those who wait... bs, right?! Well, done mate! You're going to reap what you sow, more power to you!

My gentle reminder is to supplement all that 'caffeined up - squirrel speedy' learning with ample reflection and opportunity to sink in well. You probably know this, don't mean to annoy you by saying: Retention is more valuable than the amount of books you've consumed.

All the best

 

@meetjoeblack!

B

Quote

arnsley

Yeah. I consume in excess. I probably need to unwind more.

 

[smarterthanone]

12 hours ago, meetjoeblack said:

For me, I found myself in an incredible place in my life and then, I experience great tragedy in my life. Women give zero fucks. Nobody cares. Maybe close family or friends but, this life is not all rainbows and gum drops. I am making the most at being single. I am putting myself out there. Obv, some days/nights go better then others. Well, I've met some pretty awesome women who are young, who have had some life experience, faced tragedy head on, and came out stronger rather than this victichood culture we have going in full force. I completely agree with you.

I am more curious as to your actual approach and how you are meeting these younger women. I basically talk to lots of people. Guys are friends, wings, partners to go to the bar, club, and gym with. Girls are well potential dates, ons, fwb, fuck buddies, friends, etc. Anyway, curious is curious????

Just meet any women anywhere. I haven't found the place or method to be too important. Just learn to identify if they are potential or not asap so as not to waste time. I don't recommend the club though. I've never met a decent girl at the club in my life. I can immediately think of like 10 girls from my past I did meet at the club and they were all terrible. I've met decent girls pretty much every where else though. If a girl is decent she is not at the club. If a man is such a nice guy would he be hanging out in a drug house with criminals? Nah. So why would a nice girl be hanging out with sluts on coke binges? Just saying.

[meetjoeblack]

6 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

Just meet any women anywhere. I haven't found the place or method to be too important. Just learn to identify if they are potential or not asap so as not to waste time. I don't recommend the club though. I've never met a decent girl at the club in my life. I can immediately think of like 10 girls from my past I did meet at the club and they were all terrible. I've met decent girls pretty much every where else though. If a girl is decent she is not at the club. If a man is such a nice guy would he be hanging out in a drug house with criminals? Nah. So why would a nice girl be hanging out with sluts on coke binges? Just saying.

This offers very little. The same could be said of the R selected cesspool of online dating/tinder/pof etc. I could be mistaken but, did you not say you've used this as a resource? As for sluts, they are everywhere and the same girl you meet at the gym or coffee house is not to be presumed any better or more decent then the one you found in a club or bar. It is a culture and its supremely R selected. I've seen just about every FDR podcast on the subject but, no solution is involved outside not dating single moms. We are on the same page about youth but, even then, you are sifting through stupidity at times. Aesthetically appealing but, lacking in life experience not to mention a variety of other things. Similar to opportunities and endeavors economically speaking, I see the future elsewhere and the same for those seeking marriage. Given the climate of dating, the court laws, and divorce courts, its just not ideal. 

[smarterthanone]

You are mixing it up. If she is at the club, she is definitely bad. If she is at the gym she only may or may not be bad.

[meetjoeblack]

On 11/17/2017 at 12:03 PM, smarterthanone said:

You are mixing it up. If she is at the club, she is definitely bad. If she is at the gym she only may or may not be bad.

I am listening to the biblical series by Peterson and I am finding it enlightening. Its a limiting perspective to blanket statement a woman as being bad for clubbing. Infidelity? Single mom? Neglectful parenting? Abuse? initiating domestic violence before clinging to victimhood when put in place? Yeah. Sure. Its hard to fathom your having said you date or dated teen girls who are not attending these said places now or ever? Are you making said claims? If she is bad for clubbing and then, you date her, what does this say of self?

 

I agree with you in that, finding a wife in a bar or club is as bad a idea as wifing up someone off tinder. Marrying cratered SMV. Giving the ring to single mother victimhood. This thread is basically dead. There is little with respect to actually dating or process orientation in here.

 

I've found statements of intent work much better then flattery, white knightdom, and placating oneself to her every whim. There is this presumed sense of value without any reform not matter how shitty a person maybe. I've seen on several message boards about how if a woman is not interested, its probably his fault, and it says nothing of her entitlement. I watched a recent podcast with Joe Rogan where a woman was on her high horse and telling men to fuck off. The guy asked a group of women for a lighter. A significant amount are not wifey material let alone LTR status. This assumed sense of value is just present. I cannot remember the last time I met a woman who actually reads a book that is not fifty shades, twilight or some sort of fuckery social conditioning. Needless to say, it makes for more short term prospects and little to be salvaged.

[JuliaS]

On 9/27/2017 at 12:33 PM, robert1986 said:

It is rare. That's what I'm looking for. Now where do I go? Which direction?

All I need is a direction and things to look for. I'm looking for women who actually are capable of changing based on facts. Capable. 

But I need to know where to start at. 

Robert,

I would say your best bet of finding a like-minded woman is on the internet. There are many sites dedicated to conservative people and I know many successful relationships that started through the means of online communication.

[CygniAustralis]

I found my husband on a dating website. Sketchy, I know, and probably not the best decision in hindsight, but I've been with him five years (got married in 2016), and I'm 4 months pregnant with our first child. I found a gem amongst the rocks, so to say. Hard-working Christian man, fantastic provider, intelligent and disciplined. He'll be a military police officer come June. 

The key is to know exactly what you want, and refuse to make concessions on any of those wants, no matter how appealing the other person may be in other aspects. Never compromise on your morals. Do not pursue a woman sexually before proper courtship/dating and marriage. The right girl is very hard to find in today's world, but there are girls who should fit your needs if you're willing to search for her. She could be anywhere so keep your eyes open, but you'll be better off emotionally if you don't constantly pursue. Let the girl come to you.

I'm sorry if this isn't very helpful. 

[barn]

Hi @CygniAustralis

 

20 minutes ago, CygniAustralis said:

I found my husband on a dating website. Sketchy, I know, and probably not the best decision in hindsight, but I've been with him five years (got married in 2016), and I'm 4 months pregnant with our first child. I found a gem amongst the rocks, so to say. Hard-working Christian man, fantastic provider, intelligent and disciplined. He'll be a military police officer come June. 

The key is to know exactly what you want, and refuse to make concessions on any of those wants, no matter how appealing the other person may be in other aspects. Never compromise on your morals. Do not pursue a woman sexually before proper courtship/dating and marriage. The right girl is very hard to find in today's world, but there are girls who should fit your needs if you're willing to search for her. She could be anywhere so keep your eyes open, but you'll be better off emotionally if you don't constantly pursue. Let the girl come to you.

I'm sorry if this isn't very helpful. 

I'm hoping it's not a problem if I'm curious...

But first of all, Congratulations!

1. Why did you look online instead of, in person, with the aid of extended social approaches?

as in: family, friends, acquaintances, normal exposure to people

2. When you said 'Let the girl come to you.' - were you referring to what approach women usually take?

as in: men propose, pursue and women select, dispose.

[CygniAustralis]

On 4/27/2018 at 8:15 PM, barn said:

Hi @CygniAustralis

 

I'm hoping it's not a problem if I'm curious...

But first of all, Congratulations!

1. Why did you look online instead of, in person, with the aid of extended social approaches?

as in: family, friends, acquaintances, normal exposure to people

2. When you said 'Let the girl come to you.' - were you referring to what approach women usually take?

as in: men propose, pursue and women select, dispose.

Hi there! Sorry for the extremely late reply.

I was in college at the time, when I was seeking a partner, and I can say that I had difficulty in two places: 1) I received no male attention on campus and 2) most of the guys in the college atmosphere weren't the type of man I was looking for. I'll be honest, I'm DEFINITELY not the most attractive woman, I'd say I'm plain at best, and I am "plus size" so I figured for me it would be best to look online, that way I would hopefully increase the likelihood of finding someone. Of course it took a lot of filtering to find the right partner, but you have to do that in person as well. But I would say my partner is the right person for me, and if I hadn't looked online I wouldn't have found him. So for me, online "dating" was the best option. It may not be the same for you.

What I meant was, the right girl will be attracted by who you are as a person and she will come to you willingly. She won't require an outlandish amount of pursuit, won't need to be swooned with gifts and money, and she'll stick by your side, through thick and thin. 

[barn]

Hello @CygniAustralis

 

7 hours ago, CygniAustralis said:

Hi there! Sorry for the extremely late reply. 

Um, compared to what? (didn't mind, thanks for acknowledging the time past)

7 hours ago, CygniAustralis said:

So for me, online "dating" was the best option. It may not be the same for you. 

I think you answered what I was curious about (mostly)

(I was curious how my experience compared to yours. "mostly" = I couldn't rely on friends or family for example.)

Fair enough, thanks anyway.

7 hours ago, CygniAustralis said:

What I meant was, the right girl will be attracted by who you are as a person and she will come to you willingly. She won't require an outlandish amount of pursuit, won't need to be swooned with gifts and money, and she'll stick by your side, through thick and thin.  

That's an interesting sentiment, not what I've experienced but it doesn't mean it can't be how you've described it, (Besides, agree, gifts and money will only attract the vainer set of people...) I sort of meant, have doubts about rather, "she will come to you" view... Though, don't want to argue or convince you otherwise, I just think (and have experienced) it's different for Men. (as in: pro-activity is essential).

Thanks for your answers nevertheless, congrats again for you guys!

Barnsley

[smarterthanone]

@barn

I like and have had great success online dating. And not Christian mingle or anything like that, but Tinder and the usual free sites.

Unlike most guys strategy of just swiping and talking to every girl, you need to be SELECTIVE and ATTENTIVE to clues about her character.

Tinder is not for hookups any more. Most recent two girls I started talking to off Tinder.

Latest is 18, I would say 7.5 looks but my type of look, virgin waiting for marriage. I consider that a win. We have been texting for a week and just got on the phone today, I anticipate seeing her in person next week. How I noticed her, I saw a promise ring on her finger in her pics. Those are rings you wear if you are saving your self for marriage. It was a band on her wedding ring finger with a cross. SO I spent extra time trying to get her attention because I already knew she was someone I would be interested in.

I am also talking to an 18 year old, with a 9 in looks, who is at minimum extremely inexperienced (not sure if virgin) and christian. She also knows about power tools, building decks and gardening. I paid attention to her because her Tinder said something like "Christian, no hookups, be respectful".

Two solid girls to date. Will it go anywhere? Don't know, but its not a waste of my time to get to know either of them.

What is great about Tinder is that it is damn difficult to meet young women. At 18, she will not be in a bar or club, she will not even be on her own most of the time, usually with her family taking her around and staying home. That is what the typical under 21 person who isn't in 4yr college does. So how am I to meet her? Online is the only way i've found to consistently meet young women. Young enough to be virgins.

On the flip side, a pretty hot 29 year old slut and a very intelligent 33 year old slut, and an insanely hot 30 year old single mom all tried to talk to me in the same amount of time... I DIDN'T WASTE MY TIME, I JUST SAID NO.

[barn]

50 minutes ago, smarterthanone said:

@barn

I like and have had great success online dating. And not Christian mingle or anything like that, but Tinder and the usual free sites.

Unlike most guys strategy of just swiping and talking to every girl, you need to be SELECTIVE and ATTENTIVE to clues about her character.

Tinder is not for hookups any more. Most recent two girls I started talking to off Tinder.

Latest is 18, I would say 7.5 looks but my type of look, virgin waiting for marriage. I consider that a win. We have been texting for a week and just got on the phone today, I anticipate seeing her in person next week. How I noticed her, I saw a promise ring on her finger in her pics. Those are rings you wear if you are saving your self for marriage. It was a band on her wedding ring finger with a cross. SO I spent extra time trying to get her attention because I already knew she was someone I would be interested in.

I am also talking to an 18 year old, with a 9 in looks, who is at minimum extremely inexperienced (not sure if virgin) and christian. She also knows about power tools, building decks and gardening. I paid attention to her because her Tinder said something like "Christian, no hookups, be respectful".

Two solid girls to date. Will it go anywhere? Don't know, but its not a waste of my time to get to know either of them.

What is great about Tinder is that it is damn difficult to meet young women. At 18, she will not be in a bar or club, she will not even be on her own most of the time, usually with her family taking her around and staying home. That is what the typical under 21 person who isn't in 4yr college does. So how am I to meet her? Online is the only way i've found to consistently meet young women. Young enough to be virgins.

On the flip side, a pretty hot 29 year old slut and a very intelligent 33 year old slut, and an insanely hot 30 year old single mom all tried to talk to me in the same amount of time... I DIDN'T WASTE MY TIME, I JUST SAID NO.

Define "(great) success"... I'm just kidding, not serious.

On your anecdote: Um... Shuure... I guess what you are saying is, that it's working for you. I don't doubt that you believe that, for me however it's not an option due to diametrically opposing preferences. (I'd rather not go into them, feel free to 'fill in the gap')

Thanks but no thanks.

I'm fully satisfied with my romantic choices, it's a "great success" in my view. (i. e. - never felt the need for other than dedicated, long-term relationships... I'm ok with others disagreeing though).

[smarterthanone]

2 hours ago, barn said:

Define "(great) success"... I'm just kidding, not serious.

On your anecdote: Um... Shuure... I guess what you are saying is, that it's working for you. I don't doubt that you believe that, for me however it's not an option due to diametrically opposing preferences. (I'd rather not go into them, feel free to 'fill in the gap')

Thanks but no thanks.

I'm fully satisfied with my romantic choices, it's a "great success" in my view. (i. e. - never felt the need for other than dedicated, long-term relationships... I'm ok with others disagreeing though).

So you are looking for 30+ year old single moms to have hook ups with? I guess that is the opposite of what I am looking for. LOL.

[barn]

5 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

So you are looking for 30+ year old single moms to have hook ups with? I guess that is the opposite of what I am looking for. LOL.

By the appearance of things, I guess that's what can be called projection.

If you would like to have conversations with me, you need to be constructive at least.

Either way, ... It's up to you.

[TheRedPanda]

Hi everyone!

Thank you for a very interesting conversation. It is quite rare to read or hear about such honest opinions on women and dating (for me). I'm so sick of the constant praising of all women on TV shows, movies, books and among female friends' conversations. 

In my circles, virtuous people have usually found love through common friends or social activities. A few also found their luck online. 

In my opinion, if you are looking for women in their early 20's you can't expect them to have very well-formulated ideas and thoughts about themselves, family values and life goals. As young women, we have been constantly fed with the idea that we can have everything we want, whenever we want it. She might not even have been exposed to ideas different from this. What you have to look for, is an open mindset and a curiosity. Go directly into conversations about family, values and philosophy. She will propably not have her mind made up about it, but if she is good, you will see that there is a will to learn more about this. And even if she can't yet think about these things the same way you can (you had 10 more years to figure yourself out, and you have not been fed with propaganda about how amazing you are), if she is open to learn about your point of view - give it a try. 

In my experience, young women always say they want a man who is nice, who can show feelings and yada yada. No. They want someone who can be firm, who can lead the way in life and protect them. If a girl is open-minded, humble and shows care for you, you can show her that you are such a man. You don't nessecarily have to look for the perfectly shaped woman. Find a woman who is humble and shapable. Then show her life and lead her, she will follow. 

All the best!

[smarterthanone]

16 hours ago, barn said:

...for me however it's not an option due to diametrically opposing preferences. (I'd rather not go into them, feel free to 'fill in the gap')

Thanks but no thanks.

I'm fully satisfied with my romantic choices, it's a "great success" in my view. (i. e. - never felt the need for other than dedicated, long-term relationships... I'm ok with others disagreeing though).

 

8 hours ago, barn said:

By the appearance of things, I guess that's what can be called projection.

So I don't understand what your diametrically opposing preferences are. If I am looking for young virtuous women for marriage... what is the diametrically opposite preference? That is why I said what I said. Or I suppose it could be men. If you don't want to go into it, fine, but just realize those are the only two possibilities that seemed obvious to me.

[smarterthanone]

@TheRedPanda

I completely agree. You cant be both young and wise. You can be young OR wise, or a bit of both or none. Not really any other options. Might there be an exception, sure but good luck even finding it let alone then seeing if they meet other important criteria.

This is why I like a young woman who will follow my leadership so I can bring the wisdom to the relationship on her behalf. Now that requirement is out the window and its by far the most limiting one.

[barn]

Oh, that's okay @smarterthanone I don't understand many things about people's incentives when it comes to making certain choices, say looking for a quality partner on Tinder and other dating sites :

19 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

I like and have had great success online dating. And not Christian mingle or anything like that, but Tinder and the usual free sites.

[...] 

Most recent two girls I started talking to off Tinder.

Latest is 18, I would say 7.5 looks but my type of look,...

[...]

I am also talking to an 18 year old, with a 9 in looks, who is at minimum extremely inexperienced (not sure if virgin)...

[...]

What is great about Tinder is that it is damn difficult to meet young women. At 18, she will not be in a bar or club, she will not even be on her own most of the time, usually with her family taking her around and staying home. That is what the typical under 21 person who isn't in 4yr college does. So how am I to meet her? Online is the only w ay i've found to consistently meet young women. Young enough to be virgins.

[...] 

And I'm comfortable letting it be an unexplored topic in this very instance, for now at least.

1 hour ago, smarterthanone said:

If I am looking for young virtuous women for marriage... what is the diametrically opposite preference? That is why I said what I said. Or I suppose it could be men. If you don't want to go into it, fine, but just realize those are the only two possibilities that seemed obvious to me.  

That's ok, no problem here neither. I fully accept "those are the only two possibilities that seemed obvious to" you, what's more I won't try to convince you otherwise and respect your own choices.

In the end, people always get what they are willing to pay for, not necessarily what they claim to have asked for. The closer the two, the more honesty there's in my humble opinion. I'm saying this as someone who had had to learn this about dating in general, empirically tested / chose to objectively verify it. Including (the hard way) with self-bias and secondary gains.

[barn]

5 hours ago, TheRedPanda said:

In my circles, virtuous people have usually found love through common friends or social activities.

Same here, don't think 'getting used to someone' is the way to well fitting/shared lifelong joy, other than convenience, multiple secondary gains making life together 'bumpy and tongue-biting'.

(I'm always suspicious when couples are together since high-school or because they were neighbours... not that I'm blaming them or there aren't exceptions.)

5 hours ago, TheRedPanda said:

In my opinion, if you are looking for women in their early 20's you can't expect them to have very well-formulated ideas and thoughts about themselves, family values and life goals.

It's not easy but I WOULDN'T say "cannot", as in: Of course, lack of experience about the world and the things in it is one thing...

However I found that well-principled, self-conscious individuals don't get themselves into trouble nearly as much as those that lack 'connection' with their parents, their group of friends are 'superficial' and act as a homogenised paste / football fans, rather than a collection of distinguishable individuals.

People who do stuff on their own, have content of their own, observations and curiosity... regardless if needing to be developed further, that's I think the core for a better foundation.

It always seems to circle back to quality parenting, doesn't it? Available and principled role models, protective (obviously), making sure that prevention is taught, want to verify if things are fine... not just assume, outsource to random ad-hoc gatherings of people. Those children (almost subconsciously) integrate knowledge that'll yes, make them very difficult to get to, unless you yourself demonstrably share virtues/traits with them. Oh, and don't try to pretend because they can 'smell' dishonesty from miles away... Anyway, Fully agree and support this type of mentality!

6 hours ago, TheRedPanda said:

What you have to look for, is an open mindset and a curiosity. Go directly into conversations about family, values and philosophy.

Yes, fully support that. 'Separate the wheat from the chaff...' as soon as possible.

6 hours ago, TheRedPanda said:

She will propably not have her mind made up about it, but if she is good, you will see that there is a will to learn more about this. And even if she can't yet think about these things the same way you can (you had 10 more years to figure yourself out, and you have not been fed with propaganda about how amazing you are), if she is open to learn about your point of view - give it a try. 

I'm so glad you wrote this, especially if you were a female. In any case, thumbs up In My Honest Opinion!

6 hours ago, TheRedPanda said:

In my experience, young women always say they want a man who is nice, who can show feelings and yada yada. No. They want someone who can be firm, who can lead the way in life and protect them. If a girl is open-minded, humble and shows care for you, you can show her that you are such a man. You don't nessecarily have to look for the perfectly shaped woman. Find a woman who is humble and shapable. Then show her life and lead her, she will follow.  

May I (?) Add to it that "she will follow" consciously because you demonstrate virtues she feels drawn to. Not the money, the power or the variety of Stockholm syndromes but traits that are hard to earn/maintain and offer the possibility of a good foundation for a shared and chosen growth.

p.s. /Stefan Molyneux - "Love is our involuntary reaction to virtue if we are ourselves virtuous."/

[GoodJBoy]

I was in the almost same situation as you.  I made a list of what I was looking for in a woman and realized that kind of woman probably did not exist.  Rather than simply giving up, I researched where such women with the qualities I was seeking existed and then I went there, found myself a wonderful wife and now have a wonderful nuclear family where I am the provider and my wonderful wife dedicates herself to raising our children.  This happened over decades.

What I realized was that in the secular world, what you are looking for is hard to find and if you do find, it might be unstable.  In the religious worlds, women can be found like you described in abundance.  Now you need to ask yourself, if religions can produce great quality women in abundance while the secular society produces messed up head cases in abundance, why would you not be interested in exploring religions? 

[smarterthanone]

1 minute ago, GoodJBoy said:

I was in the almost same situation as you.  I made a list of what I was looking for in a woman and realized that kind of woman probably did not exist.  Rather than simply giving up, I researched where such women with the qualities I was seeking existed and then I went there, found myself a wonderful wife and now have a wonderful nuclear family where I am the provider and my wonderful wife dedicates herself to raising our children.  This happened over decades.

What I realized was that in the secular world, what you are looking for is hard to find and if you do find, it might be unstable.  In the religious worlds, women can be found like you described in abundance.  Now you need to ask yourself, if religions can produce great quality women in abundance while the secular society produces messed up head cases in abundance, why would you not be interested in exploring religions? 

I used to prefer atheists but now I prefer common sense Christians. Like not a woman who is screaming about hell and preaching the bible every 5 minutes and says the earth is 5000 years old.

I did recently talk to a Muslim girl and I was actually very impressed. I might look into dating a Muslim. Although they are not common where I live. I do really like extra attention placed on the gender roles that many Christians move further and further away from (feminist churches? wtf).

*eats popcorn waiting for the show to start*

[TheRedPanda]

I see that a few people have been bringing up Tinder as a medium for finding women. Of course there are always exceptions... But please take advise and do not try to find a good woman on Tinder. I am willing to claim that 99.99% of all the women on that app is not good for any of the men smart and virtuous enough to be on this forum. You can do much better. 

The Tinder environment is not biologically normal, especially not for women. Having hundreds of people in your vicinity who are willing to... You know what I mean. What does that do to your mind? Your picture of yourself? Your self worth? With Tinder it will seem like hundreds of sexual partners are available to you, and you will lose the real perception of yourself in a real environment. I have seen this happen to so many women. To put it simple, it will make them think they are tens, when they are actually fives.. Not only accounting for looks, but personality, background etc. Tinder destroys women, stay away from it! You have not heard women who are on Tinder speak about men... It's horrible. 

Sorry about the profetic touch of this post. But I really think all you men here are better without women like this. 

Peace and love. 

[smarterthanone]

4 hours ago, TheRedPanda said:

I see that a few people have been bringing up Tinder as a medium for finding women. Of course there are always exceptions... But please take advise and do not try to find a good woman on Tinder. I am willing to claim that 99.99% of all the women on that app is not good for any of the men smart and virtuous enough to be on this forum. You can do much better. 

The Tinder environment is not biologically normal, especially not for women. Having hundreds of people in your vicinity who are willing to... You know what I mean. What does that do to your mind? Your picture of yourself? Your self worth? With Tinder it will seem like hundreds of sexual partners are available to you, and you will lose the real perception of yourself in a real environment. I have seen this happen to so many women. To put it simple, it will make them think they are tens, when they are actually fives.. Not only accounting for looks, but personality, background etc. Tinder destroys women, stay away from it! You have not heard women who are on Tinder speak about men... It's horrible. 

Sorry about the profetic touch of this post. But I really think all you men here are better without women like this. 

Peace and love. 

I've found intelligent attractive virgins looking for relationships not hookups that were very polite and respectful when I talked to them. I don't think you can just state Tinder as an entire category is bad. Unlike bars, if you go to a bar you drink and you engage in at a minimum friendships with loose women and drug addicts and such. So simply being in a bar or club means you aren't good quality.

Secondly, as a professional man in his 30s, I never even meet these kinds of girls in real life. I meet business women in my day to day life, I do not want a woman with a career, no way. Nor do I want an older woman, no way. So even if Tinder isn't the best place to find decent girls, I have not found another way to meet them and I do get some success with Tinder, more so then randomly picking girls up from places like fast food restaurants. LOL. Although I did see a cute girl at a subway the other day and will go back to talk to her.

[Omarcrysis]

On 11/9/2017 at 11:00 AM, smarterthanone said:

I am very selective who I hit on. I am not approaching a million women. That being said, my strategy will not work for most men because I am a sniper and I almost always get what I want, very rarely get shut down.

This is gold. I prefer the real world better though... I'm terrible at tinder.

 I used to approach girls all the time. Over the years I've learned to filter out most girls visually. Most girls don't like me because I'm too blunt, but every few weeks or months I see ONE girl that I just cant take my eyes off of and for some reason the raptor eye contact I give them must tickle their pickle because they usually like me back. As you say not always the hottest, but always the one I like the most overall.

On 11/10/2017 at 12:41 AM, meetjoeblack said:

No offense bro but guys usually say they don't get shutdown when they take down fatties or pick low hanging fruit; women that want them rather then pursuing top form SMV. If you are gunning for top form SMV, you get shutdown PERIOD. My bud is a model and he gets shutdown. Bangs models, pageant winners, 10s on the regular. He's never had a dry spell EVER. He reels girls everywhere be it online or IRL. Many a times, women are in LTRs, married, engaged or in some weird life scenario. They never mention it and it comes up eventually. I am not saying people need to spam approach. There is likely a better route but, waiting for women to pick you is not the best viable option. Hot girl in the gym. How do you proceed? Eye contact more then once is an invitation from my perspective and anything will suffice as an icebreaker. Most guys try cowardly in their workplace or social circle. Rarely a perfect stranger regardless of the scenario. It needs to be the perfect situation.

I've noticed that with genuine attraction toward a girl, theres just something in the honest gaze into their eyes that pings their radar big time. When I see a girl that I just half want to have sex with because "im horny" or "why not", I almost always get rejected (supposing they're half hot... fatties are always fair game... game that I will never try after that first time hahahahaha not worth the effort even if negligible) It's almost as if the girls I don't like that much can see in my eyes that I don't really give a shit about them. But if I see a girl that for reasons I cannot explain I just cant take my eyes off of, the attraction tends to be mutual and many times these girls have approached me. As I said these are the "best of the month" type of girls.