mgggb Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 What are your guys thoughts on bitcoin? If it were any other asset I'd say it's in a massive bubble and to sell, but this on I'm not sure. I had a chance to buy in 2009, and didn't because I thought it was a meme. Bought again at 200 but sold at 1000 because it quadrupled in price in a year. Bought ether for under a dollar, sold it before it hit ten, same with litecoin. If I had held I could be retired 5 times over now. I was basically betting that Hillary would win and we'd have a massive financial collapse, so I bet heavily on precious metals. I don't want to be having this conversation with myself in another year or two, "should have bought in at 6k, now it's 50k." but at the same time I don't want to be a schmuck and buy in at an all time high. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eschiedler Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I retired at age 37 with real estate. It provides long-term monthly income. At some point you have to take your "paper gains" from currency speculation (which is what cryptocurrency investment is, fundamentally) into a different asset. So you can always look back and say.... I could have made more. I can certainly say that with real estate and other investments. Since it is speculation, you aren't a "schmuck" because you won some and lost some, that's the way it goes. The more attention a commodity gets, the more likely it is a bubble is a good rule of thumb. Another rule of thumb is that 10x asset growth is nothing. You can get more than that in some real estate deals and many other assets, particularly with leverage. Heck, you can even get that in some casinos. But whatever you choose to do, it takes time so as long as it fits into your long-term strategic plan, I'd say keep looking into your options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofd Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 If you think that it's a valuable asset to have, add btc to a permanent portfolio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 My take: I discovered BTC in 2011 when it was around $1.00. I stumbled across it because of an internet article talking about the El Paca socks and maybe 7 other things you could buy with it. I downloaded the program that let you mine it, but couldn't figure out what the hell was going on. I said, "Eh, too weird, can't figure it out, fuck it." And I deleted it off my computer. I had about $1000 I wanted to invest. Obviously I wouldn't have thrown it all at this bizarre new thing that could potentially get me some new socks, but even if I had done $50, or even $10, I would have made a screaming-ass deal when it went to $600 the first time (where I probably would have sold it). Instead I bought silver at that crazy peak and lost about half my money. I lost my chance again when all three of BTC, ETH, and LTC skyrocketed. So I decided to have my toe in the pool in case any of them do that crazy 600-6000x growth shit again. Now I'm resolve to at least have my toe in the game in case another skyrocket occurs ($1000 increments in BTC now are like 20%, nothing like the 600000% since I discovered it). Enough where I'll make some money if it goes up, but not so much if I lose everything I'll care very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I don't consider crypto or precious metals an investment, I consider it insurance for when fiat fails(every fiat currency in history has failed). You can now read about case studies on how bitcoin is used in such scenariohttps://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/02/03/why-venezuelas-currency-crisis-is-a-case-study-for-bitcoin/#674b15ce19b2https://sg.news.yahoo.com/venezuelans-bitcoin-mining-escape-inflation-020507908.htmlhttps://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-exchange-localbitcoins-posts-fourfold-trading-volume-increase-in-venezuela And because I consider it insurance, I have never sold any or cared about price. Most hedge fund managers recommend 5-10% of your portfolio on gold if you want to hedge against inflation, I did 5% on bitcoin and 2.5% each for silver and gold(however even tho bitcoin has now grown to a larger amount of my portfolio I still haven't sold any). I have a few business friends that have different strategies of how they buy 1. Has bought years ago like I did, but cashed out his original investment so all that is left is pure "profit" 2. Has been spending 5-10% of his monthly paycheck to buy crypto every month 3. Has been buying more every time crypto has "crashed" according to the mainstream They all have different reasoning for their strategy. I think it comes down to your financial situation and how you see crypto and how you see risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striped toothpaste Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Not only crypto-currencies, but all emerging currencies are "hot" right now, IMHO. Why? Because the statists are running out of money, the West is broke. We are tanking, if not absolutely then financially at least. So, they try everything to rise taxation ect, etc --- to the point, and this is key, to make money inflexible and useless. Cashless society, for instance. But it will not work. Money is meant to increase practicality, not to make matters complicated. Think about how credit cards are there at a sweet spot: they are more convenient than cash, because you just have all your money with you at once. But they also introduce usability hassles like having to memorize a pin and whatnot. The more the establishment complicates money in order to collect and control, the higher alternative currencies will fly. It is even a question of historic proportion: will the state loose control of currency? This could IMHO very well happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler H Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I operate on the possibility that bitcoin could replace a major portion of the market now occupied by fiat currencies. If that happens one coin could be worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. A small investment could pay off big time. Put what you can afford to lose into it; the risk/reward is too lucrative to not invest. My outlook - Bitcoin is more than money, it replaces the need for money. We use money as the good we can trade for all other goods, a medium with which we track the value of all other goods and services. Money is a representation of the value we provide to the world. It is a ticket you receive from someone saying that you have provided some value, and at the time of your choosing you can cash in this ticket for the current equivalent value of what you have provided. Bitcoin does this in a way where the value of the medium of exchange is decentralized, it is immune to the manipulations of governments and banksters. The ledger of what value each person has contributed to society is public and unalterable. It has all the desired characteristics of an ideal medium of exchange - except the acceptability, which it is acquiring at a steady pace. If we think of money as the answer to the coincidence of wants, as a good that allows you to store value in a medium other than the one you produce, as a public ledger of account on your deposits and withdrawals into and out of society, then the blockchain is the single greatest medium of exchange ever developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striped toothpaste Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Today I encountered this opinion piece on it: http://avc.com/2017/10/i-scam-yous/ via this blog post: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2017/10/money-for-nothing.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsbrads Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Can't really disagree with anyone here, but I would rather not speculate. no one with money leaves it in cash, so comparing bitcoin to fiat currency is moot. investments make the most sense. Real Estate has the joint ability to create a profit and increase in value. But some neighborhoods turn bad, residential and commercial property do go down sometimes, so I prefer farmland. Note: farmland has continually increased in value and never really gone down (but that is no promise to future) and it should be insured, especially if you have lots of your assets in "one basket". stocks make sense too, diversified, but don't put in money you may have to take out quickly, you don't know when individual stocks will be low, or when the general market will be low. Gold has never been worth nothing, but it still is relatively volatile. Silver historically has been less volatile than gold despite the recent event mentioned above. No promise against the future, but it is relatively stable way to hold liquidity and provide money you need at any time. Primary residence is usually a good purchase. Other investments like a local business are okay too, but don't hold too much there. Bonds are okay, but they may not match inflation (or even pay out at the end, but they usually do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barn Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Hi, Vetting, choosing the right type of crypto currency is an aspect I would be more interested to learn in order to further advance my capabilities of making continously improving decisions. Obviously people who are well versed in trading, sales do better and I have a massive respect for those who are willing to distill their complex ideas into practical pointers. 1. 'playing the game' certainly is essential, having a 'skin' in the learning experience either for better / worse. I heard other aspects like : 2. evaluation of the board members / people behind running the brand (their actions, background, affiliations) 3. how much is being invested in security measures (50K a year is e.g a negligible measure, increases the risk) 4. tech news regarding accessibility (I heard tech firms coalescing to outfit handheld devices with a dedicated chip to facilitate using such currency...sorry for the hear-say I would like to but can't provide a source.. much appreciated if anyone can. ) 5. historical precedents when policies, politics influenced / seemingly did not have a part in advancements. Any more information on this? Barnsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgggb Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 On October 22, 2017 at 7:40 AM, eschiedler said: I retired at age 37 with real estate. It provides long-term monthly income. At some point you have to take your "paper gains" from currency speculation (which is what cryptocurrency investment is, fundamentally) into a different asset. So you can always look back and say.... I could have made more. I can certainly say that with real estate and other investments. Since it is speculation, you aren't a "schmuck" because you won some and lost some, that's the way it goes. The more attention a commodity gets, the more likely it is a bubble is a good rule of thumb. Another rule of thumb is that 10x asset growth is nothing. You can get more than that in some real estate deals and many other assets, particularly with leverage. Heck, you can even get that in some casinos. But whatever you choose to do, it takes time so as long as it fits into your long-term strategic plan, I'd say keep looking into your options. On October 22, 2017 at 10:32 AM, ofd said: If you think that it's a valuable asset to have, add btc to a permanent portfolio. On October 22, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Dylan Lawrence Moore said: My take: I discovered BTC in 2011 when it was around $1.00. I stumbled across it because of an internet article talking about the El Paca socks and maybe 7 other things you could buy with it. I downloaded the program that let you mine it, but couldn't figure out what the hell was going on. I said, "Eh, too weird, can't figure it out, fuck it." And I deleted it off my computer. I had about $1000 I wanted to invest. Obviously I wouldn't have thrown it all at this bizarre new thing that could potentially get me some new socks, but even if I had done $50, or even $10, I would have made a screaming-ass deal when it went to $600 the first time (where I probably would have sold it). Instead I bought silver at that crazy peak and lost about half my money. I lost my chance again when all three of BTC, ETH, and LTC skyrocketed. So I decided to have my toe in the pool in case any of them do that crazy 600-6000x growth shit again. Now I'm resolve to at least have my toe in the game in case another skyrocket occurs ($1000 increments in BTC now are like 20%, nothing like the 600000% since I discovered it). Enough where I'll make some money if it goes up, but not so much if I lose everything I'll care very much. On October 22, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Boss said: I don't consider crypto or precious metals an investment, I consider it insurance for when fiat fails(every fiat currency in history has failed). You can now read about case studies on how bitcoin is used in such scenariohttps://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/02/03/why-venezuelas-currency-crisis-is-a-case-study-for-bitcoin/#674b15ce19b2https://sg.news.yahoo.com/venezuelans-bitcoin-mining-escape-inflation-020507908.htmlhttps://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-exchange-localbitcoins-posts-fourfold-trading-volume-increase-in-venezuela And because I consider it insurance, I have never sold any or cared about price. Most hedge fund managers recommend 5-10% of your portfolio on gold if you want to hedge against inflation, I did 5% on bitcoin and 2.5% each for silver and gold(however even tho bitcoin has now grown to a larger amount of my portfolio I still haven't sold any). I have a few business friends that have different strategies of how they buy 1. Has bought years ago like I did, but cashed out his original investment so all that is left is pure "profit" 2. Has been spending 5-10% of his monthly paycheck to buy crypto every month 3. Has been buying more every time crypto has "crashed" according to the mainstream They all have different reasoning for their strategy. I think it comes down to your financial situation and how you see crypto and how you see risk. On October 22, 2017 at 6:24 PM, striped toothpaste said: Not only crypto-currencies, but all emerging currencies are "hot" right now, IMHO. Why? Because the statists are running out of money, the West is broke. We are tanking, if not absolutely then financially at least. So, they try everything to rise taxation ect, etc --- to the point, and this is key, to make money inflexible and useless. Cashless society, for instance. But it will not work. Money is meant to increase practicality, not to make matters complicated. Think about how credit cards are there at a sweet spot: they are more convenient than cash, because you just have all your money with you at once. But they also introduce usability hassles like having to memorize a pin and whatnot. The more the establishment complicates money in order to collect and control, the higher alternative currencies will fly. It is even a question of historic proportion: will the state loose control of currency? This could IMHO very well happen. On October 24, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Tyler H said: I operate on the possibility that bitcoin could replace a major portion of the market now occupied by fiat currencies. If that happens one coin could be worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. A small investment could pay off big time. Put what you can afford to lose into it; the risk/reward is too lucrative to not invest. My outlook - Bitcoin is more than money, it replaces the need for money. We use money as the good we can trade for all other goods, a medium with which we track the value of all other goods and services. Money is a representation of the value we provide to the world. It is a ticket you receive from someone saying that you have provided some value, and at the time of your choosing you can cash in this ticket for the current equivalent value of what you have provided. Bitcoin does this in a way where the value of the medium of exchange is decentralized, it is immune to the manipulations of governments and banksters. The ledger of what value each person has contributed to society is public and unalterable. It has all the desired characteristics of an ideal medium of exchange - except the acceptability, which it is acquiring at a steady pace. If we think of money as the answer to the coincidence of wants, as a good that allows you to store value in a medium other than the one you produce, as a public ledger of account on your deposits and withdrawals into and out of society, then the blockchain is the single greatest medium of exchange ever developed. On October 30, 2017 at 2:50 AM, striped toothpaste said: Today I encountered this opinion piece on it: http://avc.com/2017/10/i-scam-yous/ via this blog post: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2017/10/money-for-nothing.html On October 30, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Jsbrads said: Can't really disagree with anyone here, but I would rather not speculate. no one with money leaves it in cash, so comparing bitcoin to fiat currency is moot. investments make the most sense. Real Estate has the joint ability to create a profit and increase in value. But some neighborhoods turn bad, residential and commercial property do go down sometimes, so I prefer farmland. Note: farmland has continually increased in value and never really gone down (but that is no promise to future) and it should be insured, especially if you have lots of your assets in "one basket". stocks make sense too, diversified, but don't put in money you may have to take out quickly, you don't know when individual stocks will be low, or when the general market will be low. Gold has never been worth nothing, but it still is relatively volatile. Silver historically has been less volatile than gold despite the recent event mentioned above. No promise against the future, but it is relatively stable way to hold liquidity and provide money you need at any time. Primary residence is usually a good purchase. Other investments like a local business are okay too, but don't hold too much there. Bonds are okay, but they may not match inflation (or even pay out at the end, but they usually do). On November 7, 2017 at 5:02 AM, barn said: Hi, Vetting, choosing the right type of crypto currency is an aspect I would be more interested to learn in order to further advance my capabilities of making continously improving decisions. Obviously people who are well versed in trading, sales do better and I have a massive respect for those who are willing to distill their complex ideas into practical pointers. 1. 'playing the game' certainly is essential, having a 'skin' in the learning experience either for better / worse. I heard other aspects like : 2. evaluation of the board members / people behind running the brand (their actions, background, affiliations) 3. how much is being invested in security measures (50K a year is e.g a negligible measure, increases the risk) 4. tech news regarding accessibility (I heard tech firms coalescing to outfit handheld devices with a dedicated chip to facilitate using such currency...sorry for the hear-say I would like to but can't provide a source.. much appreciated if anyone can. ) 5. historical precedents when policies, politics influenced / seemingly did not have a part in advancements. Any more information on this? Barnsley Thanks for the replies, guys. Sorry for not responding sooner, I have a hundred different projects pulling me in a hundred different directions right now. But to give some closure to this thread, I've decided to go all in on crypto. Lambo or bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barn Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 12/06/2017 at 10:51 AM, mgggb said: Thanks for the replies, guys. Sorry for not responding sooner, I have a hundred different projects pulling me in a hundred different directions right now. But to give some closure to this thread, I've decided to go all in on crypto. Lambo or bust. Hi @mgggb That's O. K. at least you did respond eventually. (Although full-in sounds good from the dedication aspect, hopefully you'll be sensible enough too... having read your other comments, I'd say 'haphazard' isn't your style.) Live long and prosper! Barnsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardY Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Other coins: Why wouldn't Amazon, Microsoft or some other bluechip company launch their own coin? Would have the credibility of a large business behind it. People feeling screwed by not buying bitcoin, trade in for other alternatives with the name behind it. Transacting in Bitcoin: So is Bitcoin pretty much untraceable? couldn't the CIA or other shady organisations monitor activity and shut it down, not bitcoin specifically but vendors accepting it in payment? What if the Mafia(Government wants a cut?) Are the Baby Boomers likely to adopt the currency? Outside of Ancaps and chinese blackmarkters/Ancaps, who else? What about the tactile nature of paying cash in hand as a way to keep track of things? What about in a disaster scenario when you need show willingness to provide value now through a tangible currency. Bubble (Psychological) or Pure logic(?)? Bitcoin to represent the totality of economic productivity? 1 Bitcoin = $15,000. Could buy a fiat for that, apparently they rust a lot though, or use to. Fiat in operation; is bitcoin the equivalent of a Platonic ideal all form but no substance? Any expert that knows about the topic: Books or Youtube videos etc Bitcoin = Freedom. What if Bitcoin is seen as the panacea to freedom? Are Islamists likely to adopt it, or would they prefer Gold or Silver by instruction from the Quran? How can NAP, beat Aggression? Money or Currency? What if their is a potential to have two financial systems? Money for Conservatives(Answers), Currency for Entrepreneurs(Ideals). "You know what it takes to trade Bitcoin?" ABC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgggb Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 On December 8, 2017 at 9:33 AM, RichardY said: Other coins: Why wouldn't Amazon, Microsoft or some other bluechip company launch their own coin? Would have the credibility of a large business behind it. People feeling screwed by not buying bitcoin, trade in for other alternatives with the name behind it. This actually just happened with a token called iota. Basically shot up to a 5 billion market cap overnight. On December 8, 2017 at 9:33 AM, RichardY said: Transacting in Bitcoin: So is Bitcoin pretty much untraceable? couldn't the CIA or other shady organisations monitor activity and shut it down, not bitcoin specifically but vendors accepting it in payment? What if the Mafia(Government wants a cut?) Are the Baby Boomers likely to adopt the currency? Outside of Ancaps and chinese blackmarkters/Ancaps, who else? What about the tactile nature of paying cash in hand as a way to keep track of things? What about in a disaster scenario when you need show willingness to provide value now through a tangible currency. Bitcoin is not anonymous because every transaction is recorded in the public ledger, but the only way to shut it down would be to shut down every single computer in the world that is running a node. As for the boomers, they'll all be dead soon and good riddance. But there are untraceable cryptocurrencies like monero and others that get around this. On December 8, 2017 at 9:33 AM, RichardY said: Bubble (Psychological) or Pure logic(?)? Bitcoin to represent the totality of economic productivity? 1 Bitcoin = $15,000. Could buy a fiat for that, apparently they rust a lot though, or use to. Fiat in operation; is bitcoin the equivalent of a Platonic ideal all form but no substance? This is a completely incomprehensible string of words. On December 8, 2017 at 9:33 AM, RichardY said: Bitcoin = Freedom. What if Bitcoin is seen as the panacea to freedom? Are Islamists likely to adopt it, or would they prefer Gold or Silver by instruction from the Quran? How can NAP, beat Aggression? I honestly hope they don't. We need less retrograde barbarians in the world. On December 8, 2017 at 9:33 AM, RichardY said: Money or Currency? What if their is a potential to have two financial systems? Money for Conservatives(Answers), Currency for Entrepreneurs(Ideals). Ideally, this would be a distinction without a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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