_Amadeus_ Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 My life is at a crossroads. I live in Israel, where military service is mandatory, and for me it is nigh. I'm to be drafted for 2.8 years in 3 weeks—to the Kfir (lion cub) Brigade, infantry. This means an extremely tough boot camp continued by daily activity in Palestinian cities and villages (patrols, guarding, sometimes ambushing and arresting terrorists) and a risk of participating in the next war/operation. To all this, stoic, libertarian me said—as you might imagine—thanks but no thanks, there's enough human cattle to fight the politicians' wars, I'm not part of the herd. And so I've been planning to evade. Either legally through a mental health officer, to whom I'd over-dramatize my mental problems (which I don't lack anyway) and he'd pardon me from serving, or—Plan B—simply refusing and being thrown into military-jail for up to 3 months and then being pardoned. I have a meeting scheduled with an officer in a few days. An estimated 90% success chance. Instead of being shouted at 24/7; I'd make money, play the piano (18 is already pretty late starting-age, so 21?), learn Japanese, read books, travel, be FREE. Imagine how much progress I could make in these 2.8 years. What's the dilemma then, you ask? Well, between you and me, my mouth is bigger than my hands. I've had these, and many more, grandiose ambitions for years. Haven't made a penny. Haven't even bought a piano. Have barely been exercising, still horribly skinny. Been brain-masturbating, you know. I'd been learning Japanese on and off (mostly off) for a year until my motivation dried out. Why have I failed? It's not the IQ I lack—you can tell I'm quite literate for a foreign teenager. What I COMPLETELY lack is self-discipline and will-power (been raised by a single mom)—exactly what the army can provide. So to give up this opportunity to deal with my biggest weaknesses, to experience things most people don't, accomplish challenges I never thought I was capable of, to live up to my childhood fantasies of walking in the streets with a uniform and a gun, feeling the awe of every little girl to an old man I pass by (I know I shouldn't have these); give it all up for what? For the continuation of nothing? Of procrastination and masturbation? My biggest concern is health, though. As I'm writing this, poor me is suffering from sore throat from eating too many frozen blueberries (how will I sleep in the cold, muddy tent?), post-[pathetic]workout muscle ache and mild back pain (very mild 8° scoliosis and bad posture). This, combined with being underweight, really makes me worry about seriously injuring my back there. In the boot camp you're always on your feet and you usually carry heavy shit—not ideal for the spine. I might simply be physically unfit for it. But sometimes I just have the urge to fall asleep in a muddy tent under the rain to the chatter of my companions (my new bros!), my muscles aching, me not having digested the details of the past day but knowing tomorrow will be even harder. These are the moments that would be forever engraved in my memory. I want to be somewhere far away, living differently. I'm sick and tired of rotting at home, sick and tired of having comfort. I want to change the way I boringly live my life or I'll go crazy—or probably not, I'll just let the anger out and resume wasting my life, as has always been the case. The enlistment date only creeps closer, and I still don't have an answer when it reaches me. I do feel that whatever choice I make—I'll regret for the rest of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried von Walheim Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 My answer is simple: join the army as is mandated if you love Israel, the Jewish religion, and wish to fight anyone who'd dare provoke the Jewish people and the Israeli State. If you're like me and are very uncaring for one's own country due to personal and moral reasons, then begin planning to emigrate to someplace that is closet to what you believe in morally and will allow you to live by your morals legally. I can tell you right off the bat the military won't fix any psychological problems you have (chances are they'll exploit them for their own gain and make you dependent upon Mama Armiya). You may value the martial discipline (if Isreal has it), or you might totally reject it. I'm sure it'll make you a man though, since at the very least it'll force you to stand up for yourself and not be able to hide or run. Doing what you are mandated to do might actually help you in terms of pain resistance and tolerance for failure. If you don't want to join the army for it's 3 year thing, then I recommend doing what you can legally to avoid it or emigrate. Don't waste time learning things that aren't economically productive since the whole point of being a man is to one day have a family. The sooner you're ready to do that, the better (FYI I am 19, and I don't see myself as being blessed with time to screw around--I got to be self-sufficient by 21, middle class by 25. Then I can look to marriage and all that. I suggest you see yourself in the same light; as someone short of time and with a general plan to proper manhood by 25). The key to not being lazy is to fundamentally enjoy and take pride in what you are doing. I love and take pride in writing novels. I was very pleased recently when my mother read my big novel that I plan to publish and so far very much love the novel, it's characters, be interested in the plot, and understand the subtler themes behind it. If you think I have any wisdom or want to share more about the practical aspects on becoming a self-sufficient man (or woman? I realize now you haven't explicitly said you were a man, although I assume you are) then please email me at [email protected]. Look inward for a passion, especially a passion that corresponds to a talent, and then learn to love that passionate talent and forge that into a skill. It helps if it something you've been doing since you were little (I was writing novels since middle school since school bored me to tears and I had a lot of notebooks to fill, giving me ample practice and peer feedback). I think once you find your passion, you can start charting the necessary steps towards achieving it. I think you should avoid the army unless you love Israel, the Jewish nation, and the Jewish religion. If you don't love Israel then do what you can to avoid it. I would never hold a rifle for the current American government, since I do not consider our government just nor our wars moral. However if, under alternate circumstances (like America protecting Europe from the migrant crisis and not fighting other countries' wars and elongating them etc.) then I would join willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.2 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Hi, striped toothpaste ! I am probably the only other draft-dodger on the forums, so I felt obligated to put in my two eurocents. On one hand, I sympathise with you a lot. I have been avoiding conscription into the Mongolian Armed Forces for about 2 years. Quite symply because the military in Mongolia is fricking brutal. My grandfather was a colonel there, and he didn't let his children be drafted; so that says a lot already. Also, Mongolia is soooo cold. We don't get much action there, unlike your IDF. We just ride around along the Chinese border in the freezing winds, squashed between two stinky camel humps. So not much to do there either. On the other hand, I really envy you. I would have loved to serve in the IDF. I love Israel as a country, as a bastion of morality and order in the most dangerous place on the planet. I think what you have to ask yourself is, how much you love your country. Israel genuinely needs protection, unlike Mongolia. And asuming that Israel raised you, you have a moral obligation to defend it. In the end however, you have to ask yourself the same question that the Japanese soldiers asked themselves at the end of ww2: "How do we serve the Emperor better, dead or alive?". In your case, in the military, or outside of it. At any rate, I think this would make an interesting call with Mr.Molyneux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Amadeus_ Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 12:15 PM, Mishi2 said: Hi, striped toothpaste ! I am probably the only other draft-dodger on the forums, so I felt obligated to put in my two eurocents. On one hand, I sympathise with you a lot. I have been avoiding conscription into the Mongolian Armed Forces for about 2 years. Quite symply because the military in Mongolia is fricking brutal. My grandfather was a colonel there, and he didn't let his children be drafted; so that says a lot already. Also, Mongolia is soooo cold. We don't get much action there, unlike your IDF. We just ride around along the Chinese border in the freezing winds, squashed between two stinky camel humps. So not much to do there either. On the other hand, I really envy you. I would have loved to serve in the IDF. I love Israel as a country, as a bastion of morality and order in the most dangerous place on the planet. I think what you have to ask yourself is, how much you love your country. Israel genuinely needs protection, unlike Mongolia. And asuming that Israel raised you, you have a moral obligation to defend it. In the end however, you have to ask yourself the same question that the Japanese soldiers asked themselves at the end of ww2: "How do we serve the Emperor better, dead or alive?". In your case, in the military, or outside of it. At any rate, I think this would make an interesting call with Mr.Molyneux. I used to be hyped about defending the homeland and fighting the bad guys; quite inevitably, considering I live in a country where militarism and patriotism are being infused into your brain since age 0. But since becoming familiar with philosophy, morals, and the way the world works (partly through Stefan), I slowly went from lovin' it to being disgusted by the notion of going to die in some war I'm not responsible for under the influence of shallow propaganda lines about THE MOTHERLAND. So for almost a year the path had been clear: evade the army, live my life the way I want, and laugh about the cattle that took the bait at any opportunity. But now, a few weeks before the enlistment (or evasion) day, I got struck by the idea of joining the herd. Even today, as I'm being torn between the two options, the nationalism talks remain out of the equation. Do I love Israel? Yes, in a way. I love (some of) the people, I love the traditions that make me feel at home, I love the warmness any stranger here would exhibit, I love the jokes that only Israelis would understand. But god, I'm light years away from loving the government and its artificial forced nationalism. Even if I end up dying in a war, I don't want to be remembered as "a brave soldier who sacrificed his life for the nation". That's not who I am, and those are not the values I'd die for. So why am I filled with doubt still? Because of selfish reasons. I can't decide which option will make me a better and happier person, and which will accelerate my rotting. On 10/30/2017 at 7:26 AM, Siegfried von Walheim said: My answer is simple: join the army as is mandated if you love Israel, the Jewish religion, and wish to fight anyone who'd dare provoke the Jewish people and the Israeli State. If you're like me and are very uncaring for one's own country due to personal and moral reasons, then begin planning to emigrate to someplace that is closet to what you believe in morally and will allow you to live by your morals legally. I can tell you right off the bat the military won't fix any psychological problems you have (chances are they'll exploit them for their own gain and make you dependent upon Mama Armiya). You may value the martial discipline (if Isreal has it), or you might totally reject it. I'm sure it'll make you a man though, since at the very least it'll force you to stand up for yourself and not be able to hide or run. Doing what you are mandated to do might actually help you in terms of pain resistance and tolerance for failure. If you don't want to join the army for it's 3 year thing, then I recommend doing what you can legally to avoid it or emigrate. Don't waste time learning things that aren't economically productive since the whole point of being a man is to one day have a family. The sooner you're ready to do that, the better (FYI I am 19, and I don't see myself as being blessed with time to screw around--I got to be self-sufficient by 21, middle class by 25. Then I can look to marriage and all that. I suggest you see yourself in the same light; as someone short of time and with a general plan to proper manhood by 25). The key to not being lazy is to fundamentally enjoy and take pride in what you are doing. I love and take pride in writing novels. I was very pleased recently when my mother read my big novel that I plan to publish and so far very much love the novel, it's characters, be interested in the plot, and understand the subtler themes behind it. If you think I have any wisdom or want to share more about the practical aspects on becoming a self-sufficient man (or woman? I realize now you haven't explicitly said you were a man, although I assume you are) then please email me at [email protected]. Look inward for a passion, especially a passion that corresponds to a talent, and then learn to love that passionate talent and forge that into a skill. It helps if it something you've been doing since you were little (I was writing novels since middle school since school bored me to tears and I had a lot of notebooks to fill, giving me ample practice and peer feedback). I think once you find your passion, you can start charting the necessary steps towards achieving it. I think you should avoid the army unless you love Israel, the Jewish nation, and the Jewish religion. If you don't love Israel then do what you can to avoid it. I would never hold a rifle for the current American government, since I do not consider our government just nor our wars moral. However if, under alternate circumstances (like America protecting Europe from the migrant crisis and not fighting other countries' wars and elongating them etc.) then I would join willingly. As I wrote above, to me, nationalism goes through one ear and out the other at the same second. As a child I used to be "poisoned" as we say here—almost obsessed with the army—and proud of my country. Then I met philosophy, and the idea of serving politicians gradually lost its attractiveness to me. I swear, thinking is such a disadvantage when it comes to going through military service. If I were POISONED, I wouldn't let doubts about morality and long-term benefits disturb my motivation. I guess there are 3 main concerns in the equation aside from ideology: health, experiences, and finance. My mom tells me not to do it because I'm physically unfit and the risk is high. My dad tells me to do it because 'I gotta experience different things in life'. My brother (who's currently a soldier, though not combat) tells me to save myself this waste of time and from any interaction with that retarded system. My sister says if she were I, she'd try it, and that I'm not so productive on my free time anyway. My heart tells me to do it, my body tells me not to, and my brain is confused as fuck. As for finance, starting to work as a waiter now, and possibly making a good bitcoin investment sounds quite attractive. I don't have any desire for higher education right now and I don't know if I'll ever go this way. I'm passionate about classical music and I want to compose and play the piano, whether professionally or not. I do have musical talent which I'd developed until the end of elementary school, and then dropped it (played several wind instruments and excelled at them compared to the rest of the school). I'm nowhere near studying for an MBA or something, though, it'll take several years to develop the needed skills for that. BUT, it's important to remember that in order to achieve financial success there are traits you need to have, such as persistence, discipline, mental toughness, stress resistance and so on. Especially in the entrepreneurship sphere, which I am into (but haven't done anything worth mentioning to step in it—I truly lack those traits!). Keeping in mind that the army trains you in these areas, perhaps, in the long run, serving would be the financially wiser choice. Some billionaire whose name I forgot said that whenever he needs to make an important decision, he asks himself: "When I am 80 years old and I look back at my life, will I be happy I decided to do it? Will I regret not doing it?" And often, it is what we didn't do that we regret the most. I don't know. I sure as hell would regret becoming a cripple, but I would also regret rejecting this opportunity and then just continuing to rot. Anyhow, I'm now going to sleep and when I wake up I should decide. This is the last day I've got. This day is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried von Walheim Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, _Amadeus_ said: I used to be hyped about defending the homeland and fighting the bad guys; quite inevitably, considering I live in a country where militarism and patriotism are being infused into your brain since age 0. But since becoming familiar with philosophy, morals, and the way the world works (partly through Stefan), I slowly went from lovin' it to being disgusted by the notion of going to die in some war I'm not responsible for under the influence of shallow propaganda lines about THE MOTHERLAND. So for almost a year the path had been clear: evade the army, live my life the way I want, and laugh about the cattle that took the bait at any opportunity. But now, a few weeks before the enlistment (or evasion) day, I got struck by the idea of joining the herd. Even today, as I'm being torn between the two options, the nationalism talks remain out of the equation. Do I love Israel? Yes, in a way. I love (some of) the people, I love the traditions that make me feel at home, I love the warmness any stranger here would exhibit, I love the jokes that only Israelis would understand. But god, I'm light years away from loving the government and its artificial forced nationalism. Well, if you really do love Israel (which is more than I can say for America--I envy you in a way)--which is to say, Israeli culture, Israeli people, the religion, etc.--then you ought to do as you are mandated since, like your father says below, it'll make you mentally (and physically) tougher since you'll be forced to become a soldier without any ability to escape; the experience will undoubtedly be one of the hardest in your life. It could make you much more firm, stern, and persistent (necessary for becoming any kind of successful). It could also make you psychotic (if you take it the wrong way and try to dodge the whole thing and fail doing so) since nobody likes being forced to do something when they hate who/what they're doing it for... ...Which is why I asked if you love the Fatherland (or Motherland if that what you call it). If you do; do it. The Motherland is not the government, even if the government wants to co-opt it. I have no love for modern America nor modern American cultural values (especially the east and west coast values of perpetual youth, child neglect, laziness, drugs, promiscuity, etc.). Therefore if I were drafted...well I'd be damn well tempted to defect (which is so bad a whole division's worth of troops defects annually). And that's why I'd never fight; I don't value America (as it stands). If you value Israel, then you are in a much better place than I am to find the will to stand up to the many millions of barbarians seeking to plunder the silver city on the hill... Quote Even if I end up dying in a war, I don't want to be remembered as "a brave soldier who sacrificed his life for the nation". That's not who I am, and those are not the values I'd die for. Death rate (unless led by incompetent commanders) has historically always been like 1-10%. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Quote So why am I filled with doubt still? Because of selfish reasons. I can't decide which option will make me a better and happier person, and which will accelerate my rotting. It will if you value Israel and want to be fundamentally challenged. Quote As I wrote above, to me, nationalism goes through one ear and out the other at the same second. As a child I used to be "poisoned" as we say here—almost obsessed with the army—and proud of my country. Then I met philosophy, and the idea of serving politicians gradually lost its attractiveness to me. I swear, thinking is such a disadvantage when it comes to going through military service. If I were POISONED, I wouldn't let doubts about morality and long-term benefits disturb my motivation. But if you actually value Israel, then it isn't just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. It's real. Quote I guess there are 3 main concerns in the equation aside from ideology: health, experiences, and finance. My mom tells me not to do it because I'm physically unfit and the risk is high. My dad tells me to do it because 'I gotta experience different things in life'. My brother (who's currently a soldier, though not combat) tells me to save myself this waste of time and from any interaction with that retarded system. My sister says if she were I, she'd try it, and that I'm not so productive on my free time anyway. My heart tells me to do it, my body tells me not to, and my brain is confused as fuck. ...I'd ignore anyone who is exempted from the draft or combat (I know women are also expected to fight but I doubt they recieve the same treatment nor responsibilities as men). I don't know what kind of man your dad is. Would you like to be like him when you grow up? If yes, then follow his advice. If not, then discount it. Although I think he's right. It's not common for a millennial to know what struggling is (even a welfare-raised one). Quote As for finance, starting to work as a waiter now, and possibly making a good bitcoin investment sounds quite attractive. I don't have any desire for higher education right now and I don't know if I'll ever go this way. I'm passionate about classical music and I want to compose and play the piano, whether professionally or not. I do have musical talent which I'd developed until the end of elementary school, and then dropped it (played several wind instruments and excelled at them compared to the rest of the school). I'm nowhere near studying for an MBA or something, though, it'll take several years to develop the needed skills for that. BUT, it's important to remember that in order to achieve financial success there are traits you need to have, such as persistence, discipline, mental toughness, stress resistance and so on. Especially in the entrepreneurship sphere, which I am into (but haven't done anything worth mentioning to step in it—I truly lack those traits!). Keeping in mind that the army trains you in these areas, perhaps, in the long run, serving would be the financially wiser choice. Would be willing to spend the rest of your life in front of a piano or a wind instrument? If yes, then you've found your means of making money. The next step is to test whether anyone would pay you (significantly more than minimum wage) and if not, what to do to get there. Quote Some billionaire whose name I forgot said that whenever he needs to make an important decision, he asks himself: "When I am 80 years old and I look back at my life, will I be happy I decided to do it? Will I regret not doing it?" And often, it is what we didn't do that we regret the most. The Art of the Deal by Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America (I think. I remember reading something like that). Quote I don't know. I sure as hell would regret becoming a cripple, but I would also regret rejecting this opportunity and then just continuing to rot. Anyhow, I'm now going to sleep and when I wake up I should decide. This is the last day I've got. This day is history. The chances of becoming a cripple or dying are low. Unless the IDF has a bad history... I doubt you'll lose life or limb even in active combat. Therefore, if you love Israel and want to be hardened, I recommend serving. If not, I recommend emigrating to Russia. Either way you need to work on your passion and make money off it (like piano if that is in fact your lifelong aspiration). Edited November 1, 2017 by Siegfried von Walheim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.2 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Ah, since you make it a moral question, that is somewhat different from a practical matter. You have to apply UPB here. If everyone in Israel suddenly decided to be anarchist tomorrow, and therefore not enlist, Israel would cease to exist, and everyone in Israel would die within a week. (Not because you have no more recruits, but because your enemies will no longer fear you.) If you have a problem with the system, and you find it immoral how they are treating you, it is only masochistic of you to stay. At least in my opinion. My family, we are big tourists. If we don't like a government, we don't stay around to suffer for no reason. I hope you made the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendrokar Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 12:15 PM, Mishi2 said: On the other hand, I really envy you. I would have loved to serve in the IDF. I love Israel as a country, as a bastion of morality and order in the most dangerous place on the planet. It might have been that when it was first set up. But in order to survive it has become a fascist country. I don't get it, did the Zionists have a deathwish? I have more respect for those that did not follow these religious zealots who used a prophecy to lure people into what was, pretty much, hell at the time. On topic, then again, this might be the safest time to be drafted as the Arab Spring is still ongoing, making the Islamic world forget about Israel. Except Iran, which it hasn't affected and is not on your border. Unless you get sent to Golan heights, where according to this map is bordering with an Islamic State pocket. As IS falls, those within the pocket might feel that going kamikaze on other Muslims might not be as fruitful as going against the Israeli army. Though your physical situation seems dire that I would not understand IDF willing to take you on board. You wouldn't want to be in a situation like what happened to Edward Snowden, who had to leave the army on crutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsbrads Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Don't allow yourself to be drafted. volunteer or leave. I don't know what your future holds if you volunteer. Injury and death is unlikely, but possible. Of course injury and death is probably even more likely if you don't join the army, traffic fatalities are pretty high in Israel. The reality is if you serve, you will be buff, have girls and spend the rest of your life respected. If you don't... reality is, there is no Libertarian Utopia to flee to. US is a bigger economy, but things ain't so hot here. Most of Europe is sliding down the latrine. And the rest of the world is in worse condition. It is your choice. Make your decision and live with the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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