Marriage or MGTOW?

[Spladam]

Currently 19 years old, deciding whether or not I should set myself up for the possibility of a family later on, or whether I should set myself up for being single for the rest of my life. Thoughts? Pros and Cons for each? I'm an Omega male so getting laid isn't an option.

[Siegfried von Walheim]

As a Beta K (I'll be honest; although I am straight-forward and honest, I don't go out much and when I do it's almost always for routine reasons so me calling myself Alpha K is like me calling myself the champion boxer of my household when I'm the only boxer), I see no reason for living unless I give myself one.

A bit of an implicit given, yeah? If I don't give myself a goal, why not lay back and slowly erode? Becoming a father is about as instinctual and fundamental a goal for men as any; in fact I don't think you can really call yourself an adult male unless you are actively following a plan of some sort that results in becoming a father, and aren't really a man until you've become a father. 

Before we talk practically about the hoops and nets you may or may not face and have to maneuver, I'm going to do as you've asked and list some simple pros and cons with being a K man versus an r boy (i.e. becoming a father and husband versus an eternal man-child and/or hermit). 

K MAN: Pros

-You have a purpose for being that is biologically reinforced. You will be doing what's natural and therefore in harmony with yourself as compared to being depressed/anxious and/or direction-less. 

-Assuming you marry rightly, you'll have the greatest conceivable ally: a true and loyal wife. She can, depending on what you focus on getting, whether she has it, and whether she accepts what you have to offer in turn, become a great mother; housewife; sex machine; accountant; singer; instrument player; playmate (not sexually think like games or hobbies); friend; comrade (i.e. someone who'll stand by you in a fight both physically and spiritually); intellectual; etc. 

-Assuming you both husband and father correctly (if you can do the first the second ought to be natural, while the second can't be done without the first) your children will pretty much inspire endless love, happiness, and joy for you and perhaps live on to eclipse you in terms of life accomplishments. The possible joy and pride that comes from being a good Father is endless.

K MAN: CONS

-Fuck up and your life is over.  May as well stare down the Hudson, Skuykule, Tiber, or whatever and jump. 

Basically your life will either be Heaven or Hell depending on whether you succeed or fail.

r boy: proz

-Your life has the potential to be a series of easy orgasms, both literally and metaphorically. Whether you choose to be a useless waste of skin or a high performing but sterile monster, you have the chance to dedicate your life to pretty much anything that stimulates you in the moment and forget about the heavy and weighty concepts known as "creation" and "love". I mean, don't you just want to smoke weed, do LSD, and shoot yourself in the balls with STDs? 

r boyz: conz

-Unless you are an r by default, you will feel an omnipresent anxiety and creeping sense of depression because you'll know deep down you're not living life the way you're supposed to (biologically, morally, or however) and will feel just as bad if not worse than if you screwed up trying to be a K Man.

Basically there is no happy ending for r boyz unless you are a high performing sociopath like pretty much any Democratic politician. 

=======

If you want to be happy, you really don't have a choice but to become a K Man. Life is shit if you fail, but even more so if you don't try. And while the r boyz waste their lives and their genes away you, like me, could be living life to the fullest in the true spirit of masculinity and do that which the likes of Frankenstein can't do: CREATE LIFE. And it's all as simple as finding the right woman, getting a secure source of income, finding the right place to live, and being a good Father. The devil is in the details, but if you are anything like me you know it's better to try and fail than never try at all. Martyrs are sung for, but never the cowards. Meanwhile the victors get all kinds of laurel wreaths and monuments built for them. When life is as simple as "Win/Fail" and "Fail/Fail", you know already which path to go. There is no viable happy life as an r boy unless you truly make yourself an r. And the reason why I decided to categorize childless men over 30 as r boyz is because unless you want to go insane you must fundamentally screw the long term future and focus entirely on the present to be happy as a single man fighting his own biological imperative. 

Practically speaking, I have 3 very simple life steps you should consider--because I'm following them myself.

STEP ONE: Attain a secure source of income, ideally equivalent to 80K + per year (American dollars). Do this by age 25-30. Maybe 35 if this step requires 4-6 or more years of college and school. As a wannabe novelist my plan is to be published within the next couple years and try to make a substantial enough income from it to justify relying on it entirely.

STEP TWO: Find a woman. I recommend watching Stef's "How to find a nice girl..." for details. Basically be yourself, but first make yourself into the kind of man you'd want your daughter to marry, clean out the skeletons you're hiding in the closet, then when surfing the women comes, do what Stef's wife did and be forward and direct with what you want and what you're looking for. Doing this will scare off the r women and attract the K women because you'll be demonstrating both a desire for what they're also wanting, and the courage to be upfront and take rejection. I plan on doing this between ages 25-30, aiming for a woman of approximate age. 

STEP THREE: Find a permenant place of residence. Ideally a high quality (read: WASPy, with W also meaning "Wealthy") neighborhood in a country you'd be willing to risk your life for in the event the bull crap hits the fan and you must fight for your Fatherland/Motherland/Trapland. I plan on moving to Russia because I don't consider America worth fighting for, and am therefore learning Russia, but this is just me and my prophecies of doom making me think this way.

STEP FOUR (SCREW COUNTING): Become a Father of as many children as you can reasonably afford. I think 5 is a great number since if you do it right you can provide for your children their own best and eternal friends, whom themselves can rely upon when becoming K Men/Women and effectively form a close knit extended family/clan over time. As a man I'd like to do this by 30-32 so that I won't be old, creaky, and shooting blanks. Take into consideration the kind of women you're into and whether being her superior in terms of wisdom and experience will be a problem. Since I want a woman who is better than me in every way (or at least in certain ways, and equal in others) I don't intent to aim any younger than 2 years since I have a very low tolerance for stupidity and ignorance unless she has some seriously redeeming qualities like being a genius who is a fast learner.

...well, that's what I have to say. How does this help you? Feel inspired to be a man yet? Or are you considering cutting your balls off and joining the suicidal herd of MGTOWs (who have good points but not the willpower to use them to secure a good woman and/or change their environments) and r's?

 

 

[ofd]

Quote

I'm an Omega male so getting laid isn't an option.

How does that follow?

[Sir Exotic]

If you're 19 and not sure about all of this, don't get into any relationships/dating yet. Find yourself first, find out what you want, when and how, etc.

I could write a whole essay on what and why, but let me ask you first, why are you uncertain about this in the first place?

The natural thing is to have a family, so why is there some doubt or uncertainty? What do you think about a family, or even when kids aren't involved, what do you think about a long-term/permanent relationship with a woman? What are some things you think make you wonder if this is the kind of life you want to life? Maybe think about how your own family/childhood affected your thinking.

I would suggest finding tons of calls from previous call-in shows about relationships to see different perspectives and positions.
Other than that, maybe call into the show yourself, we haven't had this kind of call in a long time and I think it's always beneficial to bring this one up. MGTOW is a poison to relationships and is just a temporary and simplistic bitterness or misunderstanding about women and relationships.

[Wuzzums]

Go with the path that will yield the most resources. If you decide one or the other, either way you'll need resources.

[barn]

well said @Wuzzums

Hi @Spladam

Couldn't have said it better myself...

2 hours ago, Jos van Weesel said:

If you're 19 and not sure about all of this, don't get into any relationships/dating yet. Find yourself first, find out what you want, when and how, etc.

Why that's true?

Because if you don't know what you bring to the table, you can be sure the other person doesn't know neither... 'Blind leads the...'

Consider this than. Firstly a quote from you..

8 hours ago, Spladam said:

I'm an Omega male so getting laid isn't an option.

How can you know what you could do for the rest of your life? I'm not saying that you can't, I'm just saying : What if you are wrong? Wouldn't it be better to have an open mind?

Furthermore, do you want that? You could. In which case, more power to you and hope you'll be happy getting what you pay for. There are monks living solitary lives on mountains, invisible next-door neighbours, night shift security guards collecting all the latest episodes of Game of Thrones. (which is also fine if that is your thing)

Lastly, a personal observation with no offense intended. (if you are mgtow, feel free to disregard if you'd like my amateur opinions)

MGTOW, the life they choose always appears to be as lacking to me. Missing. Lonesome and unsatisfactory, regardless of it's perks. I see it as a natural and understandable reaction to immense suffering and not being able to cope with a major disappointment. But that's it. Being stuck in hiding, within the reinforced stone walls of a Castle that's built of the finest running sand. However strong it might seem from the outside, it's slowly sinking into the nothingness. Loose foundations will gobble up the strongest structures eventually.

'Pay me now or pay me later, but you will pay me.'

Pay attention to the red flags, no-one just finds himself betrayed, disappointed, left behind for no reason. People who claim to have been unjustly exploited, seems to be the worst at self-knowledge. Perhaps the MGTOW community could gain a lot by working on that.

All the best,

Barnsley

Edited November 21, 2017 by barn
Wrong recipient at first

[Spladam]

Wow, there's some really great answers here with lots of insight.

As for sleeping around, I would rather find a girl who is also a virgin and wait until at least a year or so into the relationship before penetrative sex. Sleeping around does not sound that great from what I've heard. (maybe this is too much to ask for?)

 

Reasons against being with women:

I've been screwed around and abused by women quite a bit in my life. My trust for them is next to zero.

My social skills are terrible because my Mum never let me socialize with kids my own age until I was 4, and because I am Autistic. 

I get little respect from women, and don't really feel like I ever could. I have had relationships before with girls who most would consider as being sensible, but they have all cheated on me. I don't want any more of this in my life.

How do I know if she is lying about her past or not? I wouldn't want to expend effort into a relationship that ends up becoming a scam later on.

 

Reasons for marriage:

I am good with children and could raise them well

We need more whites

I get lonely and would like an exclusive relationship with a woman

Women are great at organizing things and managing time. I'm not.

Sex looks like fun, especially when it's done with a woman.

We could be really great at doing certain things together (eg: discussing philosophy) 

There are 2 inherant goals to life: survive and reproduce (successfully).

 

I was MGTOW for a while, still am technically, but I am very open minded at this time in my life so this will probably change. 

If there was a woman who I knew 100% would be loyal, honest to me about herself, not abusive but respectful, and could be committed even if I'm no longer as great as I once was, then I would know the answer to my original question.

[M.2]

1 hour ago, barn said:

MGTOW, the life they choose always appears to be as lacking to me. Missing. Lonesome and unsatisfactory, regardless of it's perks. I see it as a natural and understandable reaction to immense suffering and not being able to cope with a major disappointment. But that's it. Being stuck in hiding, within the reinforced stone walls of a Castle that's built of the finest running sand. However strong it might seem from the outside, it's slowly sinking into the nothingness. Loose foundations will gobble up the strongest structures eventually.

Pay attention to the red flags, no-one just finds himself betrayed, disappointed, left behind for no reason. People who claim to have been unjustly exploited, seems to be the worst at self-knowledge. Perhaps the MGTOW community could gain a lot by working on that.

I would love to hear more of the MGTOW community, since it is a very underdiscussed and misunderstood phenomenon.

My take on it is that almost all of MGTOW did not choose to be so, and are only pretending to be masters of their state. Due to extreme female hypergamy, more than 80% of all men don't stand a chance with women in the beginning. This number decreases, of course, as the men age, but in the end, there will still be 50% of all men who haven't gotten the chance. If Spladam already rates himself omega, I don't think this is even a choice. I know so many good men, many of whom I would gladly take to the siege of Constantinole, never get any attention from women, or at the best kept in reserve to fall back on after 10 badboys, 3 children and 7 abortions.

 

Hi, Spladam
If you are counting on real good quality women to notice you, you may as well go get a lottery ticket; there are simply not enough of them to go around. Also, better not forget that you are competing for them against me. I'm sorry.

[Spladam]

Just now, barn said:

Pay attention to the red flags, no-one just finds himself betrayed, disappointed, left behind for no reason. People who claim to have been unjustly exploited, seems to be the worst at self-knowledge. Perhaps the MGTOW community could gain a lot by working on that.

How do I become better at self-knowledge? And yeah, the MGTOW community is messed up at times and says some stupid shit, but the fundamentals of MGTOW are pretty powerful (eg: understanding female nature). If I do go MGTOW then it will be without all the hatred just like I have been already.

Just now, barn said:

'Pay me now or pay me later, but you will pay me.'

I don't understand how this relates, do you mind explaining?

 

Kind regards, Spladam

[barn]

Hi @Mishi2

 

30 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

My take on it is that almost all of MGTOW did not choose to be so, and are only pretending to be masters of their state.

How can you end up in a bad situation if after reaching adulthood you could take full responsibility for your actions? (myself included by the way)

Are you saying it is possible there's something else than foce that takes away agency, making the majority of MGTOW 'end up' in a bad place? (I'm genuinely curious as to how you see it)

Plus, probably you'd agree that pretending to be masters only certifies they still don't wish to make any objective revision.

Barnsley

Edited November 21, 2017 by barn
left unnecessary spaces

[Spladam]

Just now, Mishi2 said:

Due to extreme female hypergamy, more than 80% of all men don't stand a chance with women in the beginning. This number decreases, of course, as the men age, but in the end, there will still be 50% of all men who haven't gotten the chance. 

Where do you get these statistics from?

[barn]

7 minutes ago, Spladam said:

How do I become better at self-knowledge?

A good start is...

What do you think self-knowledge is and how can you identify it?

9 minutes ago, Spladam said:

If I do go MGTOW then it will be without all the hatred just like I have been already.

Sure, just as if you forcefully make someone do it you will save time and energy and get things done easier.... well, definitely not! but I wouldn't want to take away the joy and opportunity of figuring these fundamentals out for yourself by giving you my distant approximations compared to how you could properly live/integrate your life's true experiences.

Barnsley

[barn]

14 minutes ago, Spladam said:

I don't understand how this relates, do you mind explaining?

Regarding my quote

'Pay me now, pay me later... '

From a practical example :

0.' Zero' argument - We get better at things we practice.

So e.g. you get used to leaving your room messy but one day realise you'd like to change it. If it's a recently acquired habit, changing it requires less effort (less established, less integrated).

Say you learn a word in a foreign language and once you get told by someone who's a really good sleaker, you're pronouncing it differently than what the books say/people do.

When is it easier to learn the desired pronunciation?

After you've just started using the word?

Years later?

What other examples can you think of where it matters to start doing things correctly as early as possible?

Are younger or older people more likely to struggle to correct flaws?

Barnsley

 

[Spladam]

Just now, barn said:

What other examples can you think of where it matters to start doing things correctly as early as possible?

Are younger or older people more likely to struggle to correct flaws?

I see, so I may as well try to get better at self-knowledge, introspection, and reducing my flaws at this point in time, otherwise I will pay some other way (eg: lifelong depression or learning much later on).

[barn]

37 minutes ago, Mishi2 said:

I know so many good men, many of whom I would gladly take to the siege of Constantinole, never get any attention from women, or at the best kept in reserve to fall back on after 10 badboys, 3 children and 7 abortions.

I feel you man, exactly know what you mean. (blatant exaggeration of course, pardon)

Well, see the thing is I am not sure I can see women in so broad of a term. I would certainly agree that the majority are making a huge mistake and miss out on a happier life by every metric...

but I have little sympathy or care for them as they are in charge of their own lives, so hopefully will like the 'product after purchase at the checkout gate'.

Similarly, the sea of men who... bla-bla

My focus and senses are tuned so that I notice the minority that is also looking for me.

From a practical standpoint : I encourage and live by a conscious and active focus forth the beneficial, the more efficient, those who do things better than me. (while occasionally acting hypocritical but that's oookei since a process takes time and practice)

btw. sorry for the sliced up manner, normally I try to keep it neat

Barnsley

[barn]

3 minutes ago, Spladam said:

I see, so I may as well try to get better at self-knowledge, introspection, and reducing my flaws at this point in time, otherwise I will pay some other way (eg: lifelong depression or learning much later on).

I wish you to see the difference in people with and without those things.

You can make up your mind afterwards.

Curiosity and reason&evidence all it takes to get clarity.

thumbs up, fella

Barnsley

[M.2]

6 minutes ago, barn said:

Hi @Mishi2

How can you end up in a bad situation if after reaching adulthood you could take full responsibility for your actions? (myself included by the way)
Are you saying it is possible there's something else than foce that takes away agency, making the majority of MGTOW 'end up' in a bad place? (I'm genuinely curious as to how you see it)
Plus, probably you'd agree that pretending to be masters only certifies they still don't wish to make any objective revision.

Hi, barn !

Thanks for chiming in. To me, it is just basic math. Let's say there are only 10 people in the entire world, 5 being men, 5 being women. Theoretically you can put them in order according to attractiveness; the women by their looks, and the men by whatever it is that women are into. 
- Men would all prefer to have the woman at the very top, but for better or worse, men propose women dispose, so men may do everything right, but in the end it is down to the women to choose.
- As for the women... They will also all want the top 2 men. Statistically speaking, a third of all women will never get married, no matter their SMV. Which means we can take the 3 of the 10 women completely out of the equation. The top 2 women will take the top 2 men, as it should be. However, now that the top men are taken, the remaining 5 women will have lost their targets. Statistically speaking, 3 of the remainders will somehow manage to settle for a man, but then 2 of them will get divorced, and the other 2 come to replace them.
At the end of our equation, we have 5 men who are more or less happily married, 5 who never have been. We have 3 women who are happily married, 2 who are unhappily married, 2 who are divorced with cats, 3 who never have been married.

Unless you, as a man of under 40, can claim with a straight face to be in the top 20%, you did not choose MGTOW; MGTOW chose you.
Unless you, as a man above 40, can claim with a straight face to be in the top 50%, you did not choose MGTOW; MGTOW chose you.

11 minutes ago, barn said:

Well, see the thing is I am not sure I can see women in so broad of a term. I would certainly agree that the majority are making a huge mistake and miss out on a happier life by every metric...but I have little sympathy or care for them as they are in charge of their own lives, so hopefully will like the 'product after purchase at the checkout gate'.

My focus and senses are tuned so that I notice the minority that is also looking for me.

From a practical standpoint : I encourage and live by a conscious and active focus forth the beneficial, the more efficient, those who do things better than me. (while occasionally acting hypocritical but that's oookei since a process takes time and practice

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. I don't think it matters whether or not you care what other people are doing. It is a very tragic phenomenon that is very vivid in the West. Maybe you are completely unaffacted, but you can't be sure it won't affect your children or the people you love. I myself am comfortably in the top 20% of men, yet not all of my loved ones are, and that is why I care. My heart aches for women, it literally does, and it aches more for my male friends, but above all it aches for the West.
The MGTOW pheomenon must be studied and discussed in order to limit its spread.

 

41 minutes ago, Spladam said:

Where do you get these statistics from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYyzmIhSfrg&t=0s

  Mr.Molyneux made a video on this very recently. I quote him: "...Women's standards of male attractiveness have gone through the roof. Like when surveys are done of women, and they show them sort of a random sampling of males, around 80% of the males are considered below average in attractiveness. And what this means is that in general, the top 20% of attractive men are getting the sex. And this creates an interesting and terrifying challenging cohort of men, who basically can't get involved in the sexual marketplace..." 8th minute mark.

If you want more info, I can recommend MGTOW101 on youtube. I found him to be the best relayer of information regarding MGTOW.

[barn]

8 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

To me, it is just basic math.

Well, duh. I'm being condescending. Apology for that, only did it for the effect.

Humans don't follow the unrelenting(and boring) path of determinism.

Approximations are fine I guess, unless you kid yourself with a moral backing to intend social engineering. At wich point we part ways abruptly. In the milliseconds realm. Quicker than you can... blink, let's say. (clumsy awe effect)

By the way, nice try fogging me in fogging yourself. I would still like an answer to my question if you would be so kind(to yourself).

8 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. I don't think it matters whether or not you care what other people are doing. It is a very tragic phenomenon that is very vivid in the West. Maybe you are completely unaffacted, but you can't be sure it won't affect your children or the people you love. I myself am comfortably in the top 20% of men, yet not all of my loved ones are, and that is why I care. My heart aches for women, it literally does, and it aches more for my male friends, but above all it aches for the West.
The MGTOW pheomenon must be studied and discussed in order to limit its spread.

Am I correct you have assumed me stating withdrawing from society?

(hypothetical)

I am not. What I do in all my relationships is R.T.R. (works like magic), people with low integrity choose to give me a wide girth or viscously attack,

therefore half bowing into their own swords while I have the opportunity to self-actualise without restricting my true self.

It's actually a win-win scenario. Would be happy to clarify if needed.

Barnsley

[M.2]

1 hour ago, barn said:

1. Humans don't follow the unrelenting(and boring) path of determinism.
2. Approximations are fine I guess, unless you kid yourself with a moral backing to intend social engineering. At wich point we part ways abruptly. In the milliseconds realm. Quicker than you can... blink, let's say. (clumsy awe effect)
3. By the way, nice try fogging me in fogging yourself. I would still like an answer to my question if you would be so kind(to yourself).

1. It is not determinism, it is math. And I did say "most", not all. Maybe you are an exception. But that is all, an exception to the rule.

2. Why would I want social engineering? I don't follow.

3. I scrolled up to view the question again, which I thought I answered well. Let me try again...
We can assume that 100% of men want a wife, or some sort of partner, because the ones who don't are very few in numbers and fit in the margin of error. (Please don't ask me to pull up statistics and links, because they delay  my posts 20 hours or more due to moderation.) Therefore, we can conclude that men do not choose to end up alone, although they do.

In the olden days, a great majority of men used to get a wife, but not anymore. Factors are:
- Essentially in every part of the world, except Eastern Europe and Southern South-America, men outnumber women by a lot.
- Female hypergamy has become so bloated that only the top 20% of men stand a chance in the beginning, and only 50% in the end.
- Very few women want to marry thanks to the welfare state.
- The quality of women has dropped dramatically, due to feminism, so much of the women have become intolerable.

Men do not have a choice - that is what I'm trying to say. The ones who do find a good woman, even MGTOW, jump on the opportunity, even if they are not searching.

Quote

Am I correct you have assumed me stating withdrawing from society? I am not. What I do in all my relationships is R.T.R. (works like magic), people with low integrity choose to give me a wide girth or viscously attack, therefore half bowing into their own swords while I have the opportunity to self-actualise without restricting my true self.
It's actually a win-win scenario. Would be happy to clarify if needed.

Again, I'm happy for you, but I don't think it is relevant. You used the phrase "looking for me" a bit back. I have assumed you are in the top 20% of men, because nobody (female) is looking for you if you are not. That is all I'm trying to convey.

This is not directed to you: I speak 5 or 6 languages, depending on how you measure it, but I am having a hard time finding the words to express how stupid the reputation system is. If I made a bad point, please point it out. If you simply give me a bad rep, I will learn nothing, and the quality of the forums will not improve.

[meetjoeblack]

On 11/20/2017 at 10:13 PM, Spladam said:

Currently 19 years old, deciding whether or not I should set myself up for the possibility of a family later on, or whether I should set myself up for being single for the rest of my life. Thoughts? Pros and Cons for each? I'm an Omega male so getting laid isn't an option.

I wish I could be 19 again. Life does not work that way. I have had a piss poor dating experience throughout my life. I dated a few times a year usually by some random case of serendipity as a teen. If and when girls liked me, I usually botched it or fucked it up by being beta. I finally got one gf in my teens who I met online and likely was getting cucked upon reflection. She no showed me on new years in my freshman year of college and I was done with it. The worst part too was that, a college girl tried to hookup with me after hours in the photography room. Again, I was a college freshman and I fucked it up.

A shy friend of mine later would tell me about a book that helped him meet girls. It was the Game by Neil Strauss. Here, I read and learned about pickup. About cold approach, about self-help, hypergamy, the red pill, of hypergamy, and nature of females when young/thin/attractive. I learned about sexual market value. I saw social conditioning, my eyes opened as i saw the contradictions between how my K selected happily married parents raised me and my sister versus how women actually were. Like, a girl telling me she is not like that and then, getting gang banged at a high school party. About a girl putting on the good girl shtick and then, cheating on her boyfriend sucking some other guy's dick at a party despite going to church on Sundays. I watched as my high school and college one-ittus/crush ended up becoming single moms via one night stand. I was crushed but, I found myself resenting my old self. I remember buying girls flowers and then, a girl just being a real bitch to me or bringing out some shitty mood and toxic behavior. I did not get it. Once my eyes opened, there was no going back, and things began to change.

I started to talk differently. I began to actively pursue, approach, and put myself out there. I experienced a ton of rejections, blow outs, and flaky girls. I also began to get more numbers, dates, hookups, and pulls. I stopped pedaling this beta male cuck provider vibe. If a girl did not want to spend time with me, I would just approach another girl, and I stopped taking things to heart. I stopped caring to live up to the standards society and social conditioning had for me. I turned 30 this year. The last girl that gave me head is 21 (legal in my state). I picked up two girls recently. One 26 and another early 20s. Both flaked. The other day, a girl invited herself over to my house. It literally equates to NOTHING. It has no meaning. While I always saw marriage as a way of 'being,' since my eyes opened to the realities, that being, most women are skiing down cawk mountain, are cratering their SMV running through bad boys/playboys/alphas/sociopaths/psychos only to seek marriage as plan B for when those said males stop calling; I cannot fathom this route especially in the west.

TS, I don't think MGTOW is the solution either. I thought about signing up to RooshV forum but, a recent video called Black Pill offered ZERO. MGTOW advocates taking your ball and going home. I am a huge fan of FDR and Stefan Molyneux. I've watched every video on MGTOW/Masculinity/Gene War fare series/Single moms or truth on Sex among a ton of others. He offers ZERO solution. Suggesting not dating single moms is common sense. Waiting for the government and state to fail, for the welfare state to dry up and for women needing men again IS NOT AN ANSWER. Stefan has said that dating younger is "CREEPY" in one of his videos (i will try to find and time stamp it). Again, not an argument. If you are going to get married, you want TO FORM SMV and not cratered SMV, not the MILKS GONE BAD, and BABY RABIES AND BULKING SEASON have kicked off.

You sir are 19. You have the world to explore along with your consciousness and self-knowledge. Continue to do so. Approach lots of women. Date man. HAVE OPTIONS. Choose from said options. Based upon my life experience, women have not ever shown stability, nurturing, wifely, motherly, caring, loving, and other positive traits to indulge in the idea of spending my life with such a person. I pray. I meditate. I am reading the Gita, the bible, listening to Jordan Peterson's biblical series, and exploring my consciousness as well as self-knowledge. I have met a lot of tyrannical women, crazy party girls, skanks, sluts, cratered SMV, single moms, etc. Pickup and being red pilled will do this. I've come across many girls who are single moms, women i once dated, lived trashed, many who are now fat, and life is bad. I could have been that guy.

 

I was not sure how to articulate it; what "it" was exactly. I just knew, there is power in "youth," in a woman's fertility, in biology, and in top form SMV. Peterson in a youtube video spoke of you as "potentiality." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< here in lies the SOLUTION IMHO! A woman can run around as a attention whore, crater SMV, be a single mom, and go on a BULK CYCLE as the MILKS GONE BAD. She is entitled to and like most women in the west, many will or she can choose a more conservative life. She can follow social conditioning and feminism, compete with the men for the corner office, and be cheered off the cliff once SMV craters. And she can choose a life of self-knowledge, exploring her consciousness, reading a book, being a Queen with the entitlement, attention whore or 'sloot gonna sloot' rubbish.

 

^^^^^ The latter gets the ring. Don't get it twisted. Don't be fooled by society but, my friend, it is a cold hard world. There is darkness. My beta genes want to be passed on. I want to get married despite knowing all this, seeing this cuck fest embedded into the fabric of society, made mainstream on tv shows like breaking bad/HIMYM/Shameless/Strangerthings among others. ITS NOT OKAY. The woman with the ass pics on IG gets pulled, Eiffel towered, and facials not the ring.

 

Good luck to you man. Take more shots. Let it play. Give your gifts to the world. BE WARNED. Don't listen to society. Trust your intuition.

You're better off marrying your high school sweet hear then playing the field and watching women get cheered off the cliff. One of my biggest afterthoughts the past decade. Please share your story going forward.

[Spladam]

Just now, Siegfried von Walheim said:

...well, that's what I have to say. How does this help you? Feel inspired to be a man yet? Or are you considering cutting your balls off and joining the suicidal herd of MGTOWs (who have good points but not the willpower to use them to secure a good woman and/or change their environments) and r's?

I would love to get married and have kids, so long as there wasn't such terrible consequences for loosing. Also, even if I do get it right, what if I get marriage done right with the wrong person? I guess I should get out there a bit more and see it for myself. 

But yeah, I am inspired by that

[Spladam]

Just now, meetjoeblack said:

Peterson in a youtube video spoke of you as "potentiality." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< here in lies the SOLUTION IMHO!

Which video was this from? I looked around but found multiple videos each with different contexts of potential.

[meetjoeblack]

12 hours ago, Spladam said:

Which video was this from? I looked around but found multiple videos each with different contexts of potential.

I am sorry. I do not recall. I have binge watched a bunch of his videos. I believe it was embedded somewhere in either the Maps of Meaning or Personality course youtube videos. If you watch his new channel, he has clips, and it really breaks down things with respect to gender. Despite the gender neutral push, women spread their legs for masculine > feminine males. Women rely heavily on the passive dating role, waiting for men to approach or swipe right, and the cyclical spikes of dopamine be had. Sure, there are sloots that will approach men but, despite the changes in the workplace and times, women are still waiting for men to make the move most times.

Despite Stefan's hard work, I think he is missing the mark on calling dating younger as being "creepy." It is not an argument anymore then a feminist screaming white privilege or rape culture. Women crying about the wage myth gap. It is on this level of thinking. I suspect Stefan is biased having a young daughter. I do think there is a drop off point but, even backwards rationalizing this "creepy" declaration; at what point does it become creepy? 2yrs? 4yrs? 5? 10? What?

At 19, TS has tons of opportunities to 1) make something of his potentiality 2) acquire a woman worthy of giving the ring to before starting a life together (although, it is mostly a formality, and not a necessity). IMHO, I always thought I would but, as I get older, I am growing more doubtful. I have experienced more and more flings and short term relationships. All of which have really made me grow weary of the ordeal between the sexes.

 

I cannot articulate the subject as well as Peterson. I marvel at the man's "hyper verbal" abilities and genius. Basically, the drop off point he said in Personality 2017 #15; if a person has not developed "potential" by 40, its pretty much GAME OVER. Sadly, the school systems are breeding more of this uselessness, social justice warriors, liberal arts majors, and women studies. A man must sift through all this nonsense and "vet" a good woman. I've approached hundreds of women. In my life, I could count very few worthwhile in pursuing a LTR with let alone considering spending a life together. There is a lack of free thinking. Victimhood is the calling card for the culture. Do yourself a favor and explore. Just know, it is not the way society and the world portrays things.

 

A classic example of the biggest of issues I see now among many is; Hollywood's push for cuckoldry. Tv shows like House of cards/Breaking Bad, Shameless, HIMYM, Stranger things etc. all promote female "protagonist" cucking men. It is just a common theme in the west. If this was the middle east, they would be stoned. While I am not advocating this, you clear don't give these women your sperm let alone access to your resources. A woman I hooked up with was being sly over social media. Her behavior is begging for single mother victimhood and cratered smv. A pic surfaces online of a man kissing her forehead. The same woman had my dick in her mouth and my proteins swimming in her stomach.

 

It is dark but, continue your quest for self knowledge. Refrain from anything dogmatic be it feminism, mgtow or pickup especially as being gospel. Know your true north, your values, and beliefs.

[meetjoeblack]

On 11/21/2017 at 9:16 AM, Spladam said:

I see, so I may as well try to get better at self-knowledge, introspection, and reducing my flaws at this point in time, otherwise I will pay some other way (eg: lifelong depression or learning much later on).

Read David Deida, way of the superior man. He speaks about the climate of gender neutrality and the fallout thereafter.

 

13 hours ago, Spladam said:

I would love to get married and have kids, so long as there wasn't such terrible consequences for loosing. Also, even if I do get it right, what if I get marriage done right with the wrong person? I guess I should get out there a bit more and see it for myself. 

But yeah, I am inspired by that

All great questions. I am trying to figure it out. In friends who have a ideal partner, they found the girl young, dated, no ambiguity or any sort of weirdness/cuckodry/infidelity etc. You must do as others suggested with respect to exploring your consciousness and self-knowledge.

I found a ton of info from FDR which is why I am here. Like you, I was seeking a answer but, I have not yet found it seeking it myself. A great book to read is "Way of the Superior man" by david Deida. He depicts the problems coming from gender neutral. The cucking in society that is becoming commonplace is a result from a lack of masculinity IMHO. I have spent the past ten years weening out my beta male provider genes. If I married in my early 20s, I would have got cucked, cheated on, and destroyed in the court systems.

Jordan Peterson speaks about the women who leave law firms, get married, and have children. They quit. Many women I work with would much prefer to be stay at home moms. Those who are not married feel they must follow the leader of feminism and have a career. In doing so, they are cratering their SMV chasing all the wrong things, and increasing the student debt bubble. Again, you cannot declare bankruptcy on a student loan. This is blood money. Once the eggs go bad, once fertility is done, and the wall has been hit, it is GAME OVER.

Upon a message here from a buddy I was looking at joining the RooshV forum. I thought there would be more answers here. I have searched and not found them all the while I am doing mass approaching. The goal for a wife/children/white picket fence supersedes any amount of rejection, flaking, blow outs. When I look back on my life, I can say, I put it all on the line, did everything I can to find my queen, wife, and mother of my children. If I cannot despite all that, I will have no regret, and can rest assured. Its a zero sum game. Think monopoly only, someone is getting all the girls. The beta male cuck provider is expected to keep society orderly. Raise the alpha male's babies and allocate resources to a woman after SMV is cratered and she takes half your shit. This is a real thing and until the risk is mitigated, it is not a brilliant idea or business venture to undertake.

Are you dating at the moment? My advice would be, what if you approached three strangers a day? 365 days in a year. Assume how many digits you get from here? How many more numbers? How many more lays? you come out of scarcity, you become numb to rejection, and to flakes. You run into women you would have dated, committed to, and married only to see, she is fat now, a single mom, and her life is garbage.

 

I think youth is the key. From what I have seen, if not for cratered SMV and a biological clock, a lot of women would never change. If you look at the divorce stats, its over half are divorce, and the majority of those are by women. The man's resources are extracted and the woman jumps back on tinder to ski down cawk mountain. No fall out. Women are shameless in the west. Entitled to the max. No consequences for being a whore. Some cuck will still give her the ring. Find someone you can spend your life with but, it is no joke. Women are not waiting till marriage.

[barn]

Howdy @Mishi2

- - - Thank you for taking out of your time and having replied in such manner as you did. Please, enjoy reading. - - -

21 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

[I.] "It is not determinism, it is math. And I did say "most", not all. (1.)Maybe you are an exception. (a.) But that is all, an exception to the rule."

Foreword -  I can already see that I am not approaching from the most meaningful direction for the benefit of the both of us and I acknowledge, there's an obstacle in the way. Don't know what would be a better tool to convey my meaning or 'live yours for the purpose of', I'd have to understand your worldview/particular language better, I reckon.

Additionally I have also noticed you made a new effort trying once again revisiting my suggestions. That's... that speaks of humility... to me. I consider that worth remembering. (personal assertion but I thought you should know)

It's only equal if I give it another try, while fully prepared it won't neither 'click'. Hell, yeah! It's worth it.

I. Response - I'd assume(once I assumed we could learn telekinesis to operate doors 'n stuff so I won't break down in tears if I'm wrong, yet again... ) when you meet someone, the unique experience contains little to none thoughts regarding math in your perceived experience. All the assessment is done to a greater degree within the 'on the fly' system, deeper evaluation might happen afterwards but there's no exclusion of impressions, whispers from your inner-self. My approach in general is based on that assertion of individuality but as I stroll further away, I tend to get less convinced of applying the same standards constantly reminding myself that an individual ISN'T = GROUPTHINK. That's why I see your approach lacking in the fully 'human' aspect, forgive me for saying... dry and incomplete. Just as the architect from the movie Matrix - Reload (?).

Yes. You DID SAY 'MOST' (me 1to1 {A}.: I had you called me out/reminded me as often as you saw it necessary and I will do my best to be as precise as I imagine your standards dully require but consider me definitely coming short(no idea how often,how badly in your experience) and not delivering near-identical precision. (!!! and for the love of God, don't change what you wanna say, I'm clarifying only. My intellectual integrity should be challenged constantly, otherwise it'll get conformist. Been there, done that... no thanks)

1. - 'exception'

Having been called my whole life an exception in one form of another has made me think of the word quite a' tad bit'... at least that's what I believe... always caveats like (compared to who/what but I'd rather preserve my sanity for a while longer so you just have to trust me for a moment.. hehe) - when letting it flatter me, vanity - when group dynamics, 'the shard in the eye of everyone' - when creating universals, the one oxymoron you can't overlook...

bla-bla.. (respectfully)

a. my take - I choose exceptions to be (failing linguistic reach) not-yet-understood-therefore-potentially-integrable 'pieces'. Sort of = 'probably you don't know' and 'I don't know, so we should NOT DEFINE it yet' but 'treat it as if it was called a name we both accepted for now, with large red letters reading on the envelope: "Don't open until Xmas!"'

21 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

2. Why would I want social engineering?(II.) don't follow.(1.)

II. Response - You haven't mentioned, didn't say you wanted to engineer socially! - I proposed as a warning so that you got a better idea of my boundaries in respect of 'my kill-switch'.

Was it an overkill? Perhaps. Glad I did anyway.

1. thought process - This I had infered based on my (not yet verified) assertion that if you were treating people as 'math problems' , you could (in a swift succession) apply said framework to universals or vice versa.

Aaand... Sort of concluded the same again as I read through your re-visiting of my initial question(doesn't prove anything still). If it was so = No worky. For me, that is. (again, just being straightforward. I also remember we still don't speak the same language. Maybe one day I get you or you get me.)

21 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

I scrolled up to view the question again, which I thought I answered (III. - pre.) well. Let me(III.) try again...

III. - pre.

Let's say there's no 'badly' answered question. = There's only(once created) answers = everything has 0+ worth

I'm saying, please accept my apologies for not clarifying that I wanted to know your take on the ideas I put forward. Every time you did, the result was larger than 0. There's no 'well', given you didn't erase my questions. Thanks (No, I'm not trying to look smart. I mean it.)

III. Response -

On 11/21/2017 at 2:34 PM, Mishi2 said:

My take on it is that almost all of MGTOW did not choose to be so,

Full disclosure : (flowery language ahead)

The 'fiddlestick' MOST OF MGTOW didn't choose to!? I empathise (good riddance, got a few uncanny memories of my own... but still)

You hit 16,18 and you could take back control. 'Hit the road Jack!' ,Jess, Jeff, Joseline, Juniper,... bloody language reach again...

(exceptions narrowly applied to basement kidnapees, hard drug addicts and brainwashed MI6 prospects, no fakers pls)

So, no. No 'whitewash' to the been-through-more-than-humanly-possible because (God love Metallica) sad but true = they had the chance to break through the land-mined, barbed wired and poisonous honey-laced past called coercion-stopped-a-heartbeat-ago. Sad but true and wouldn't ever want to take that truth away (from myself first... universality eh?! or) from anyone.

As I see it, occupying volumes in this reality grants us the dynamics/rules of this reality. Better learn up fast if hadn't, 'cos sucks to be told stuff(hail the wise, patient ones who do charity! khmStefan.. khMolyneux... my throat, smilesss).

22 hours ago, Mishi2 said:

(IV.) Men do not have a choice - that is what I'm trying to say. The ones who do find a good woman, even MGTOW, jump on the opportunity, even if they are not searching.

IV. Response - Tho' you might not get my meaning (my lack of wording probably) I see at this moment, this convo... only two. You and me. Perhaps that's why I'm going over 'yer head! Don't care about what silly, uninformed choices other dudes make... yet. I wish for you and for me at this moment to (Confucious - a drunkerd 'bard' really if I assert... I know) 'stop digging when found in a ditch'. Selfish, hell yeah! But the world desperately needs clear voices, immovable objects, unrelenting forces... for better or for worse. Why should I care about the weak hearts making dolds over folds trying to rationalise and escape from living the once a lifetime '15minutes of fame' there's to live? There's no statistics when it comes to What do you want out of life?

 

I'm still not coming thru'? , no probs. You're probably a good guy! I'm glad I shared what I could.

 

The (+1) end.

Mark Whatney - balls of steel, good at math too. Hates 'disco'. Ever considered reading the book "The Martian"? audio book? - and, no, NO! stay clear of the miserable vomit with Matt Damon. I'm ashamed I wrote his reference down, even.

 

Respectfully yours @Mishi2

Barnsley

[barn]

A last (for now) addition I skipped..

I wish to find(one day or any other can't-yet-percieve variations) the person who have internalised or on the verge of crystallising the essential requirements for the relationship I'm looking for.

'ergo' she's 'looking' for 'just' me. Same as I'm looking for 'just' her.

Do you get my meaning @Mishi2

as in 'I already know some but can only be sure when I 'see' her.

(no, A.I. out of question - I'm not, wouldn't work.)

Barnsley

[meetjoeblack]

58 minutes ago, barn said:

A last (for now) addition I skipped..

I wish to find(one day or any other can't-yet-percieve variations) the person who have internalised or on the verge of crystallising the essential requirements for the relationship I'm looking for.

'ergo' she's 'looking' for 'just' me. Same as I'm looking for 'just' her.

Do you get my meaning @Mishi2

as in 'I already know some but can only be sure when I 'see' her.

(no, A.I. out of question - I'm not, wouldn't work.)

Barnsley

I like your posts man though, I find them to be really vague though, well thought out.

I think we're on the same page for the most part with respect to the things we are aiming for (wife, children, family, self-knowledge, etc.). My question is, what are you willing (if anything at all) to stake for that?

I surrender. If there is a God, some architect of the universe, higher power, deity, the outcome is outside my control. There is that old saying, God helps those who help themselves. I cannot speak for everyone but, I notice most men cling to the first thing that will have them that is semi-decent (take that pc culture). Beyond looks, I have always known that there is so much more to the process, to picking a woman to be one's wife and mother of the children.

I am willing to put myself out there, to take on that 'dragon of chaos' that Jordan Peterson speaks of; to walk that tight rope between chaos and order. The old hero myths depict a story of slaying the dragon and bringing peace before landing the princess. I don't see much difference with this archetypal story. Living at one's edge, going into chaos, overcoming one's fears, rejections, time allocated (the most precious asset one has), and leaving it all out there in one's quest for what the heart truly desires.

A woman is not a man's purpose. Similar to Napolean Hills' think and grow rich, with that right woman, a man succeeds. Its that synergy. Unfortunately, I have met quite a ton of tyrannical women in my life. I thought it was me but, through my journey of self-knowledge, I have come across a lot of other men that have too. One think I take responsibility for is the women I choose and going forward, I am really aiming to pick based upon substance first before looks since that lasts much longer.

 

I dislike how Stefan knocks the pickup/approaching but, I get it because it beacons more R selected behavior. It is not without consequences nor is waiting for a ideal woman to fall from the sky. Sure, it could happen but, it is few and far between what usually happens in reality.

 

I came to this site because i am in search of 1) self-knowledge 2) exploring my consciousness! 3) to transcend my own suffering (experienced a lot of loss as I shared before). I do want a family of my own. I feel like that sort of synergy would aid me in my prospective pursuits. I ask myself, what would make this life worthy of 'being?' I want to see the world. I want my own biz. I don't care to be the richest stiff in the cemetery however, I want to be mobile anywhere in the world. I want to explore. Ideally, I want that sort of woman in my life before this change takes place otherwise, I would cut off all possibilities.

I know many young men who are gone MGTOW, fuck strippers, and tinder/bumble away through pickup. Not for me.

[barn]

40 minutes ago, meetjoeblack said:

I like your posts man though, I find them to be really vague though, well thought out.

There's a first for everything.

No one ever complemented(by mistake?) my vagueness with a contradictory twist.

(Goofey's chuckle..)

I think that's an 'I don't know'?!

[...]

I tried to make sense as for the direction you went for...

Couldn't...

I'm, sorry but I see little from the' fog' of abstractions... lots of abstractions. Can you distill to concretes or highlight a specific thought?

Only if you want.

Barnsley

[aviet]

You don't have to be an omega male, look at everything you can do to improve yourself:

lift / workout
up your wardrobe
study how to deal with women
get a hair cut

The road to marriage is fraught, but this is where you're heading otherwise:

[Siegfried von Walheim]

21 hours ago, Spladam said:

I would love to get married and have kids, so long as there wasn't such terrible consequences for loosing. Also, even if I do get it right, what if I get marriage done right with the wrong person? I guess I should get out there a bit more and see it for myself. 

I think, from my position as a guy with no dating experience whatsoever but with great ambitions, you simply have to make yourself the kind of guy a truly good woman would love and then learn what the tells of bad women are so you can filter them out in search of greatness.

I don't think it's all that complicated, and I also think trying to find a good woman by using the tactics of those seeking bad/temporary women will backfire rather than help. I mean, as a man, would you feel comfortable dating a woman whose clearly been around and knows how to play a man? Maybe for a hot night but beyond that I'd be terrified of how I could be played. No one is totally immune to being manipulated and it's important to recognize those who could do so to us. 

Therefore I think your best bet is to become wise but also be honest and direct. I've heard complaints that Stefpai doesn't offer alternatives to PUA but he offers alternatives all the time: directness and honesty. He gives men and women the same advice, I assume because it works. 

And as a rule I am most inclined to take advice from those who are more or less where I want to be in life (at least in a given subject, though I'd weigh them as a whole if I fear pursing the subject as a whole). 

 

21 hours ago, Spladam said:

But yeah, I am inspired by that

Good. Focus on your career dreams and once you're steady you can then start sending the searchlights for decent women and begin filtering out the red flag-bearers and femme fatales. 

[Siegfried von Walheim]

28 minutes ago, aviet said:

You don't have to be an omega male, look at everything you can do to improve yourself:

lift / workout
up your wardrobe
study how to deal with women
get a hair cut

The road to marriage is fraught, but this is where you're heading otherwise:

...I wouldn't mind being interviewed by Lauren Southern. :-P

...Of course I'd rather marry her. And I doubt going MGTOW is the way to that.

[meetjoeblack]

2 hours ago, barn said:

=

I'm, sorry but I see little from the' fog' of abstractions... lots of abstractions. Can you distill to concretes or highlight a specific thought?

Only if you want.

Barnsley

This is my point. This^^^^^ above is that vagueness again.

I am curious about your process atm. You want that specific outcome but, what are you doing to acquire that? Tinder/bumble/pof is not the answer. Women are usually fat as fuck and a guy gets cucked and or cat fished. Usually, both. Stefan frowns upon approaching but, there is little alternative but, to hope a woman picks a man. Usually, low hanging fruit unless said male has won the genetic lottery but, due to female hypergamy, women aim up. Not down. So, its again, usually a scenario of low hanging fruit. Not the most ideal.

Curious about your process. I've asked quite a few people here. Nobody seems to have an answer or they give some lame answer that women just magically pick them as they stand at the bar like 007 because this is applicable. The only man I know who was able to proceed with this approach was a male model but, again, the women were not pageant winners or models par his equal. Again, hypergamy.

For someone 19 contemplating MGTOW, I could only imagine his dating experiences (no diss intended). If we use the NYSE as an example; females have this assumed value by default no matter how shitty a person, lack of free thinking, slutty, and or low IQ. Even pickup is pretty shitty this way. The assumed mentality is that, Everything a woman says or does just justified as is the assumed value especially in a bar. It is interesting that, wanting to fuck precludes assumed value with dating.

 

[meetjoeblack]

2 hours ago, aviet said:

You don't have to be an omega male, look at everything you can do to improve yourself:

lift / workout
up your wardrobe
study how to deal with women
get a hair cut

The road to marriage is fraught, but this is where you're heading otherwise:

Basically, the sentiment comes down to an either or though, I don't believe it is black or white. The value marriage brings is mostly for the children. For women, its another opportunity for being an attention whore.

I was thinking about making a thread on the topic but, I cannot be bothered.

Its pretty apparent the push Hollywood has with cuckoldry. Mainstream shows like Breaking bad, Stranger things, House of cards, HIMYM, Shameless etc. among others push this cuck agenda whereby, female lead cucks male. In many a situations, the male cucked is a protagonist or at the very least, is a main character. It again is a classic example of mitigated crating sexual market value in women. The same goes for the push for 'sloot gonna sloot' don't judge her and promo for single mother victimhood. Promo for anti-fat shaming because obesity is attractive?

My eyes are open. There just seems to be so many pit falls and marriage is no fucking joke. It costs money. children are not free. I think I have been conditioned in a K selected environment, and have deemed it to be the way. In the event i was married to a woman who say, was from a R selected environment, did not know her father, and grew up with a mother who was riding the carousel and using men, the outcome would not be good for me.

My original process for coming to this forum was to find a solution all the while exploring my consciousness and self-knowledge. I do not see a solution coming here. I was looking at RooshV forum but, after his Black Pill youtube video portraying his life at 38, single, no wife or children; I don't much see a solution coming here. I've looked over some of the posts in that forum and there are quite bit of free thinkers like yourself.

With your entrepreneurial lifestyle and genius, I think before you get rich, you are going to want to find a good woman. Outlook not so good thereafter. How would one ever trust a woman unless you hide it for a decade lol

[Spladam]

Just now, aviet said:

You don't have to be an omega male, look at everything you can do to improve yourself:

lift / workout
up your wardrobe
study how to deal with women
get a hair cut

The road to marriage is fraught, but this is where you're heading otherwise:

Haha, nice photo but I'm not that bad.

I get regular hair-cuts, work out (and am studying to become a PT), and my wardrobe is pretty good, it's juts the social skills which are terrible. I basically can't connect well with women. I wrote another post on here further up which explains the reasons why (it should be under a pros/cons list).

[Will 001]

On 11/20/2017 at 9:13 PM, Spladam said:

 I'm an Omega male

Self-honesty is a good sign. It gives you the ability to change. Given your unfortunate self-assessment, you really, really should go to a therapist. They can help you identify your problems, their causes, and solutions. I sincerely wish the best for you.