Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

 

I ask this question, because forcing people to do so, seems to go against the notions of freedom, liberty, equality and fraternity. It is an insult to our fiduciary duty to each other and is responsible for many honor killings.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIvdqNU8rX4

 

In many countries, be it a religious, political or social custom; women and men are forced to wear particular garments;, veils hijabs, or beards are three examples of this.

 

Does this practice of using force go against our fiduciary duty to women and men?

 

The Golden Rules  or some form of reciprocity exists in most religions and cultures.

 

No one likes to be forced to do anything, this is irrefutable. In some cultures, force is used to have men and women kowtow to the culture or religion. This is a poor and immoral ideology.

 

I believe that obliging or forcing people to submit to any political, social or religious norm, including forcing various apparel, --- without a just cause, --- is immoral.

 

Do you agree?

 

Regards

DL

[Jsbrads]

Sure, why use force? Just use shame. 

[Wuzzums]

Only the ugly ones. Feminists do love them some sharia law.

[Gnostic Bishop]

On ‎17‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:40 AM, Jsbrads said:

Sure, why use force? Just use shame. 

Coercion by false shame is forcing.

Regards

DL

 

 

 

[Jsbrads]

LoL, no.

i am free to slut shame, fat shame, or shame laziness, licentiousness, gluttony, avarice, greed, or anything I want. Even industriousness, tho if I do that last, trying to be friends with me might harm you as much as my lifestyle choice harms me. 

[DonaldJ]

In a sense it's honorable and evil, in that should she totally be covered the males don't see them as something vaginial to attack and suddenly fornicate into..  For some messed-up reason Arabs don't have serotonin the spirit quietner glandular..  Maybe it's from drinking polluted water and fornicating with fun to rape animals..?  They are running on instinct..  They see a partially naked female, and they must immediately mate with it, like they did with goats when they were smaller.. like how tribes of monkeys procreate.. To them Women are the equivalent of female goats rear-ends..  They cover their females so as not to hurt them with their infantile unbridled insanity, by attacking women how they attack and attacked goats..  It seems their religion is based upon abusive fornicating with anything and everything that be female..  It makes all types of violent sexual molesting be morally correct in their eyes., when it's very likely a particular level of insanity..  In some of those cults men have eve force-fornicated wee kiddies to death for their god's will..  Evil doesn't get any worse than that...

[AllanN]

On 12/6/2017 at 5:41 PM, Gnostic Bishop said:

No one likes to be forced to do anything, this is irrefutable. In some cultures, force is used to have men and women kowtow to the culture or religion. This is a poor and immoral ideology.

I believe that obliging or forcing people to submit to any political, social or religious norm, including forcing various apparel, --- without a just cause, --- is immoral.

 

You say it's irrefutable that no one likes to be forced to do anything?  Force even coercion for want of deeper explanations are how the operational world of mankind functions.  Always, always when someone is involved in a system, force is mandatory to keep the system running, even for the CEO.  The CEO is forced to attend that which CEOs' attend otherwise the system may fail.  The only time there's no perceived force is when hippy's are sitting around smoking dope.  There are many types of force.

re your 2nd point:

Nudists are forced to wear clothes without just cause so your statement implies that most of the world is immoral.  Perhaps you should think more deeply about the questions you pose.

If you're getting at Islam without mentioning it specifically, well, the Koran doesn't directly demand that women cover themselves up.  From memory the whole thing arose because someone was having problems with bare breasted women during Mohammed's time, and he suggested they cover themselves up, as you would if someone had a problem.  But it was only suggested, that I do recall.  The problem with Islam is the Bukhari (an interpretation of the Koran written several hundred years after Mohammed by a bunch of vicious warlords, and then there's endless strange add-ons.).  The Bukhari also advocates Sharia Law.  The Bukhari essentially represents a schism; a split away, for example like the Mormons or JWs from Christianity.  I have respect for the Koran and Mohammed but in my opinion the majority of Islam today is a sorry wreckage and the fault is the Bukhari's blasphemous interpretations.  So your statement immoral ideology kind of leaves me cold.  It's an all-pervading statement that doesn't really say anything except that it's bad, well fine, but that's really only an opinion, which of course you're welcome to have.

[Jsbrads]

Muhammad himself was a warlord who murdered innocents and married a child and had sex with a prepubescent child. He should have been put down like a rabid dog. We are paying for our continuing failure. 

[AllanN]

Mohammed was a man of his times.  Him marrying a prepubescent child is a common misconception because the girl was about 18, well over the age of consent in relative history.  The Bukhari's distortions of the Koran and subsequent writings, as I said, for the most part are tantamount to blasphemy.  Christianity also has its stupid distortions, for example, the story of Sodom.  Among the men of Sodom, there may have been homosexuals but the men of Sodom raped just about anything, because rape was the ultimate insult.  Transpiring from that into Christianity however, it was interpreted that anyone's who's a homo is an abomination to Christianity, a BS conclusion.  Onan's seed, similar deal, masturbation is evil, but again a totally BS interpretation.

I have no problems with the Bible, the Koran and other holy books but utterly stupid interpretations have screwed religions to the point where credible thinkers treat religions as retarded.  I'm not angry with them or you, although I think your appreciation of the Koran and Mohammed is only populist knowledge, although honestly, what you say is totally understandable.  All I'm suggesting is you aim your contempt where it's deserved, not at the originators, but at the halfwits who dare hold themselves up as representatives of those holy works, and even of God.

Not the originators because for their times they were extremely advanced, inspirational and dynamic.  Instead, what we have today is mostly boring and delusional, the haunt of charlatans, but mostly halfwits.  A true religion is way beyond science, and facts are no mystery to it.  A true religion escalates intelligence and understanding more than any drug.  Current religions will attest that's what they do, but mostly it's charlatan and halfwits in rooms charged with emotion singing songs about being chosen and reciting misconceptions from books whose true meanings are mostly forgotten.  Although in so saying, I haven't met them all and I fully realize that many people do their best with their faith which is admirable.  The nearest I currently know to true religion is Stefan, Jordan and people like them who are truth-tellers, as best they can be.  And that's what religion always was, truth-tellers.  People who make real sense.  No, not religions as we know them, but the originators of old made sense back then, and they weren't welcomed either.

[Gnostic Bishop]

On ‎01‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 8:39 AM, AllanN said:

You say it's irrefutable that no one likes to be forced to do anything?  Force even coercion for want of deeper explanations are how the operational world of mankind functions.  Always, always when someone is involved in a system, force is mandatory to keep the system running, even for the CEO.  The CEO is forced to attend that which CEOs' attend otherwise the system may fail.  The only time there's no perceived force is when hippy's are sitting around smoking dope.  There are many types of force.

re your 2nd point:

Nudists are forced to wear clothes without just cause so your statement implies that most of the world is immoral.  Perhaps you should think more deeply about the questions you pose.

If you're getting at Islam without mentioning it specifically, well, the Koran doesn't directly demand that women cover themselves up.  From memory the whole thing arose because someone was having problems with bare breasted women during Mohammed's time, and he suggested they cover themselves up, as you would if someone had a problem.  But it was only suggested, that I do recall.  The problem with Islam is the Bukhari (an interpretation of the Koran written several hundred years after Mohammed by a bunch of vicious warlords, and then there's endless strange add-ons.).  The Bukhari also advocates Sharia Law.  The Bukhari essentially represents a schism; a split away, for example like the Mormons or JWs from Christianity.  I have respect for the Koran and Mohammed but in my opinion the majority of Islam today is a sorry wreckage and the fault is the Bukhari's blasphemous interpretations.  So your statement immoral ideology kind of leaves me cold.  It's an all-pervading statement that doesn't really say anything except that it's bad, well fine, but that's really only an opinion, which of course you're welcome to have.

So you are saying that you like to be forced or coerced into doing things instead of you voluntarily doing something.

Ok. I think you are the exception to the rule.

As to Muslim women, you are not quite correct.

The instruction to wear veils was so that the richer women that could afford them would not be raped when they went out during the night to go to the washrooms.

You seem to forget that Muslim men blame women for the rape they have to suffer.

And you like the holy books and religion that promotes that.

Try thinking like a woman, or just a gay man in  Muslim country.

Thinking in do unto others terms should change your mind.

As to the morality of both Islam and Christianity.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

 

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

 

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

 

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

 

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes.

 

 Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes.

 

Do you agree?

 

Regards

DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

On ‎01‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 8:39 AM, AllanN said:

Nudists are forced to wear clothes without just cause so your statement implies that most of the world is immoral.  Perhaps you should think more deeply about the questions you pose.

Actually, I recognize that the world is getting more moral. But to your stupid remark.

All freedoms are regulated by the harm they might cause, including nudity.

Go to the most liberal country in the world and have your wife stand near a freeway with her breasts exposed, even in Canada where nudity and exposed breasts are legal, and you will see how fast she is arrested.

Out her on an appropriate beach and she would have no problems.

Perhaps you should think more deeply about the points you put.

Regards

DL

 

[AllanN]

Apologies, my criticism that you should think more deeply about your questions wasn't intended as a negative.  The process of interaction involves correction and self-correction so I was attempting to be helpful because I wasn't sure what you meant.  Even your latest statement: the world is getting more moral  I don't get.  The statement could mean many things.  I'm not going to offer you suggestions about what you may probably mean, having been castigated by your obvious irritation with my attempts at being helpful, which I shall clarify again below.

And, I'm still not sure how you reason that nudity harms people, except that it will certainly get people arrested, which is what you seem to be saying.  Nudity's illegal, but that still doesn't make it immoral.  I was questioning your initial statement: I believe that obliging or forcing people to submit to any political, social or religious norm, including forcing various apparel, --- without a just cause, --- is immoral.  You do understand that your statement infers that nudists are being put upon immorally?

Your statement above I had sought to clarify in my initial post, suggesting that perhaps you're referring to Islam.  You haven't replied to my questions or suppositions so I can only conclude that you don't want your statements questioned.  Well, fine, I'll leave it be, apologies again for upsetting you.

[AllanN]

• e 

On 4/9/2018 at 2:45 PM, Gnostic Bishop said:

So you are saying that you like to be forced or coerced into doing things instead of you voluntarily doing something.

Ok. I think you are the exception to the rule.

As to Muslim women, you are not quite correct.

The instruction to wear veils was so that the richer women that could afford them would not be raped when they went out during the night to go to the washrooms.

You seem to forget that Muslim men blame women for the rape they have to suffer.

And you like the holy books and religion that promotes that.

Try thinking like a woman, or just a gay man in  Muslim country.

Thinking in do unto others terms should change your mind.

As to the morality of both Islam and Christianity.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

 

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

 

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

 

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

 

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes.

 

 Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes.

 

Do you agree?

 

Regards

DL

 

 

Generally, I agree with you but you missed my point.  My problem is TODAY'S religions, which are pathetic shadows of former brilliance.

The originators of religions (I mean for example: Buddha, Mohammed, Christ, the prophets etc) were (for their times) dynamic people who had answers and were respected, even hated.  Religion should easily trump the sciences, even Stefan, Jordan and others with facts and answers, but today's religions don't.  Quibbling in their wreckage about which one is goodest is pointless.  You say for example: humanity centred or supernaturally centred.   What does that even mean today except that your opinion is something like a card hand where humanity beats supernatural?

Religion is a deep study?  No, it isn't.  Perhaps to understand your Gnostic "depths" I am expected to read someone's opinion, which can only ever be second-hand at best.  True religion is what inspires children's play, tigers to hunt even men into battle screaming for blood.  Never was it tedious tomes droned endlessly to drowsy audiences.  True religion is living, breathing, dynamic truth, reality and absolutes that cannot be refuted.  It is love, hate and the profundity of life.

How so?  That is my understanding of the statements of the originators.

You're proud of Gnosticism, you say, well frankly I'd be ashamed, along with the legions of other religions that have inflicted and deluded for centuries.

Edited April 15, 2018 by AllanN
I didn't see his post to reply to...