Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Posted December 9, 2017 Recently I was reading this article about the myth of the skills gap https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608707/the-myth-of-the-skills-gap/. The problem right now is that the skills gap is just a shady excuse that the jobs actually don't exist no matter how much skill and education you have. I don't know if any of you have happened to go through a period of unemployment longer than a year but, it traps you in a very ugly and annoying cycle. The problem is that Stefan addressed for most of us young people it's not a failure to launch that is our fault but, it's no where to land that we have no control over. It disgusts me that our stupid education system doesn't even help with the basics of life skills and practical skills we need to succeed in the world and gets away with teaching a bunch of random bullshit that's only going to be important on some trivia game show. My question to Libertarians is that if you guys actually believe unemployed people who are actually diligently searching for jobs and who are not in a good position because of circumstances that happened by birth should be left to starve? I think that's the one biggest problem with this free market concept is that we forget that some people's default setting are not their fault. It's also the most evil disgusting thing that happens when people put so much time and effort investing in themselves by getting more education and learning a skill but, not given some kind of guide to how they should navigate getting employment. Anyway I live in a blue state and this crap is happening to me. I think when it comes to issues like helping the unemployed for the people who are actually being diligent and working to improve themselves but, getting nothing in return all sides of the Political party are tone deaf and ignorant including libertarians. 1 1
Fashus Maximus Posted December 9, 2017 Posted December 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Revolutionary Thinking said: It disgusts me that our stupid education system doesn't even help with the basics of life skills and practical skills we need to succeed in the world and gets away with teaching a bunch of random bullshit that's only going to be important on some trivia game show. My question to Libertarians is that if you guys actually believe unemployed people who are actually diligently searching for jobs and who are not in a good position because of circumstances that happened by birth should be left to starve? I think that's the one biggest problem with this free market concept is that we forget that some people's default setting are not their fault. What free market? Where? When have libertarians advocated starvation? You're claiming that this is the "biggest problem with this this free market concept", when you just said that "our education system" disgusts you. Well, which is it? You take issue with our non-existent free market or our education system?
Wuzzums Posted December 9, 2017 Posted December 9, 2017 You have the wrong mindset for getting a job. Case and point: you live in the US and don't have a job when unemployment is at its lowest in 17 years. 32 minutes ago, Revolutionary Thinking said: the jobs actually don't exist no matter how much skill and education you have a period of unemployment longer than a year but, it traps you in a very ugly and annoying cycle it's not a failure to launch that is our fault but, it's no where to land that we have no control over. our stupid education system doesn't even help with the basics of life skills and practical skills we need to succeed in the world unemployed people who are actually diligently searching for jobs and who are not in a good position because of circumstances that happened by birth some people's default setting are not their fault not given some kind of guide to how they should navigate getting employment I live in a blue state and this crap is happening to me I think when it comes to issues like helping the unemployed for the people who are actually being diligent and working to improve themselves but, getting nothing in return all sides of the Political party are tone deaf and ignorant including libertarians. All these phrases show is a lack of taking responsibility and ownership for your own actions. Nobody will ever hire you with that attitude. The moment you start blaming yourself is the moment you'll notice new opportunities popping up. No matter how struck down by faith or helpless you are, once you assume it's your fault your mind will start figuring out choices you could have made but didn't. Choices that at the time, because you assumed it's someone else's fault, were invisible to you. 41 minutes ago, Revolutionary Thinking said: It's also the most evil disgusting thing that happens when people put so much time and effort investing in themselves by getting more education and learning a skill but, not given some kind of guide to how they should navigate getting employment. If that's the most evil disgusting thing you can think of then you are a snowflake.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Author Posted December 9, 2017 @Wuzzums any examples or are you just speaking platitudes? Also You didn't come up with any type of numbers or anything like that it's really easy to speak about all this stuff when you provide very vague solutions and you're just pontificating.
Wuzzums Posted December 9, 2017 Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Revolutionary Thinking said: @Wuzzums any examples or are you just speaking platitudes? Also You didn't come up with any type of numbers or anything like that it's really easy to speak about all this stuff when you provide very vague solutions and you're just pontificating. Did I just trigger you because I dared to suggest taking responsibility for your own actions? My, my, my... you are indeed a snowflake.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Author Posted December 9, 2017 Even if I was a snowflake I'd choose that over being a brainless asshole who has no solutions and just puts people down 1 1
Wuzzums Posted December 9, 2017 Posted December 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, Revolutionary Thinking said: Even if I was a snowflake I'd choose that over being a brainless asshole who has no solutions and just puts people down SJW always double down. I rest my case.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Author Posted December 9, 2017 SJW LOL I supported Trump. I rest my case. Next time do a little thinking before jumping to conclusions. That's the problem with people like you, you ASSume a lot of things.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Author Posted December 9, 2017 @Fashus Maximus You're right I'm being a little too fast to jump to conclusions. If it were truly free market it would be unschooling and then after that then more of the responsibility of not having a job would fall on that person who decided to self educate because they didn't take the time to learn something worthwhile when they were younger. As it is now I really don't blame the unemployed for what they're going through because they didn't choose their education when they were going through it. It was all forced upon them for the purpose of becoming productive citizens. I don't blame a victim of a crime for being hurt just like I don't blame the people who went through the recession for not being prepared for jobs when the current system actually did the opposite and prepared them for becoming factory workers when that work doesn't exist anymore.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Author Posted December 9, 2017 @Wuzzums SJW's would support the public education system and call whoever was not in support of it and not in support of the teachers unions a fascist. In addition to that SWJ's would also be in favor of putting more bullshit into the public schools about a whole bunch of irrelevant crap that doesn't help you latter in life and only leads to the situation that I'm in now. Instead of having job skills and actual important helpful things in the high school we have a bunch of junk that doesn't help. I'm against them and the kind of garbage that they put out there. In fact all an SJW has to offer is name calling and no solutions so maybe you should have a good look in the mirror before you project your ignorance and judgement onto someone else you really know nothing about.
Fashus Maximus Posted December 9, 2017 Posted December 9, 2017 @Revolutionary Thinking So do you agree with my argument that the problems you describe are a result of government coercion? If you accept this, then it is not a violation of the NAP to resort to the use of welfare, since you did not initiate the aggression. Also, you can use it as an opportunity to work your way back into a free market through entrepreneurial means. @Wuzzums Why did you assume he was just failing to take responsibility for his actions? What actions or inaction are you referring to? The OP doesn't address what he has or hasn't done with respect to unemployment... How is it SJW-ism for a genuine victim to claim victimhood?
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Author Posted December 9, 2017 @Fashus Maximus I'm so glad that your kind of thinking is actual thinking and not just jumping to conclusions. Yes these problems are a result of government coercion. I did not initiate the aggression. The problem is that I really want to do something I'm passionate about and make money for it but, it's been a hard and bumpy road. I did have some jobs in the past but, they were very dead end and I felt like a zombie in them so eventually I quit. Working my way back into the free market through entrepreneurial means is easier said than done but, I do have a YouTube page, a blog, and a shop of things that I 3D print. So far for my YouTube page I have been going out in my community asking people what they think of our current employment and education system dilemma. I also invested in a program to help me make my YouTube page to get monetized and make money through having very engaging content. It's a work in progress and I am going through these routes because nothing has been more frustrating than job hunting that puts you in a chicken and egg situation where you need experience to get experience.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 9, 2017 Author Posted December 9, 2017 Also by @Wuzzums logic every Trump supporter would be an SJW and Trump would be the ultimate SJW because he keeps talking about jobs. Could you imagine if he campaigned and told everyone who lost their factory jobs that they were all being entitled snowflakes and it was their fault they didn't have a job. I'm pretty sure he'd lose the election. 1
Wuzzums Posted December 10, 2017 Posted December 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Fashus Maximus said: @Wuzzums Why did you assume he was just failing to take responsibility for his actions? What actions or inaction are you referring to? The OP doesn't address what he has or hasn't done with respect to unemployment... How is it SJW-ism for a genuine victim to claim victimhood? My reasoning for that assumption was right there in my first post as clear as day or did you avoid reading it like he did?
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 10, 2017 Author Posted December 10, 2017 You're just proving my point.
Fashus Maximus Posted December 10, 2017 Posted December 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Wuzzums said: My reasoning for that assumption was right there in my first post as clear as day or did you avoid reading it like he did? You claimed that "all these phrases show" a lack of taking responsibility, when the topic of the OP is problems created by the government. Your replies to him have nothing to do with the topic. I'm not saying that he's without fault, I'm saying we don't know that. He may very well post about it in the future, if that's what your interested in talking about. 1
Wuzzums Posted December 10, 2017 Posted December 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Fashus Maximus said: Your replies to him have nothing to do with the topic. I quoted him directly and the topic is him not being able to get a job. I pointed out why that may be, gave evidence, and offered a solution. Then he proved he's not here to fix his problem but to engage in a circle jerk about how helpless he is because he started insulting me when I pushed back against his narrative: 11 hours ago, Revolutionary Thinking said: speaking platitudes it's really easy to speak about all this stuff when you provide very vague solutions and you're just pontificating. brainless asshole who has no solutions and just puts people down Next time do a little thinking before jumping to conclusions. That's the problem with people like you, you ASSume a lot of things. Any other obvious thing you want explained before I ignore this pointless thread completely?
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 10, 2017 Author Posted December 10, 2017 That's really funny because if you say something like "I'm great at customer service" the employer will tell you to give an example like what you did such as "one customer was complaining about a dirty table so I quickly went to clean it up." I would never respond to the employer "oh just shut up and believe me". Which is why when I asked you for an example from your own experience or where you have seen this before you didn't come up with any and just initiated into insulting me?? Then I insulted you back. What goes around comes around. You pushed back against my narrative that's fair enough but, did you provide specific examples as to what you were talking about... no. Also I don't come to an employer with that kind of attitude I come in with a very positive attitude and do what's asked of me and more. Even then it doesn't happen and after a while it tends to get a little frustrating. I should blame myself for following their rules and doing what's asked of me?? WTF do you call that? What responsibility and ownership do you think I didn't take exactly?? What should I blame myself for exactly? If the job description says entry level job with a bachelor's degree and experience in customer service which I have both of those things and I clearly show on my resume that I have both of those things and it's what they asked for then I don't get it I should blame myself for being qualified for the job and not getting anything back? That's like going to a car dealership and the dealer telling you it's the best car in his lot and then you drive it and it breaks down in the middle of the road? I should blame myself and not the dealer? How can your common sense may be tingling but, it seems like it's running on empty...
Somewhere Posted December 10, 2017 Posted December 10, 2017 16 hours ago, Revolutionary Thinking said: The problem right now is that the skills gap is just a shady excuse that the jobs actually don't exist no matter how much skill and education you have. It would be good to be more specific. That broad formulation is easy enough to falsify; unemployment rates are low, people with various levels of skill and education have jobs. But maybe we're talking about overproduction in higher education; for example rather few physics graduates actually end up working in physics, and that has always been the case. Or maybe it's something specific to you; finding a job is a very individual thing. What are your skills and education? Can you arrange work experience in the field you want, for example by volunteering? Whatever the universities would like you to think, skills in professional jobs are mostly learned on the job, not in a university classroom, so from an employer's point of view, recent graduates are typically low skilled.
Fashus Maximus Posted December 10, 2017 Posted December 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Wuzzums said: I quoted him directly and the topic is him not being able to get a job. I pointed out why that may be, gave evidence, and offered a solution. Then he proved he's not here to fix his problem but to engage in a circle jerk about how helpless he is because he started insulting me when I pushed back against his narrative His personal anecdote provides context. He wasn't asking for advice. You quoted him providing context to the central question of the OP: "My question to Libertarians is that if you guys actually believe unemployed people who are actually diligently searching for jobs and who are not in a good position because of circumstances that happened by birth should be left to starve?" This has nothing to do with proving how helpless he is, a claim he never made. My take from the conversation is you feel insulted that he didn't just sit there and take condescension from you; the audacity! 1
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 10, 2017 Author Posted December 10, 2017 @Fashus Maximus you just about summed it up.
Wuzzums Posted December 10, 2017 Posted December 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Fashus Maximus said: My take from the conversation is you feel insulted that he didn't just sit there and take condescension from you; the audacity! Yes, because taking time out of my day to try to help a stranger is being condescending... You get a downvote for your lack of logic and another downvote for making me waste my words. 3 hours ago, Fashus Maximus said: His personal anecdote provides context. He wasn't asking for advice. You quoted him providing context to the central question of the OP: "My question to Libertarians is that if you guys actually believe unemployed people who are actually diligently searching for jobs and who are not in a good position because of circumstances that happened by birth should be left to starve?" That's a false dichotomy especially since poor people in the US are fat. Furthermore if the thread isn't about him how come he instantly became hostile when I brought it to a personal level?
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 10, 2017 Author Posted December 10, 2017 They're most likely fat because people like you are too stupid to know that high quality food in the US is pretty much off limits to people who can't afford it. If they can't afford healthy quality food because ignorant people don't give them access to jobs so they can afford those high quality foods so they end up eating cheap garbage that the same exact scumbags who put them there in that situation perpetuate their situation and have the audacity to blame them for it. Think about it we're not living in the medieval times anymore when it was a sign of wealth to be fat. Fatty foods usually cost less and EBT cards are used to access the excessive amounts of junk food that poor people eat. So the same fat people who are depressed and use fatty (comfort) foods to alleviate that depression and it's the only food they can afford because of government assistance tend to stay fat. Then if a person who is marginally over weight wants to change his lifestyle and get off of welfare by getting an education and learning a skill but, no one will hire them and he or she may not know why. Then the constant rejection leads to more eating of comfort foods to alleviate the depression he or she is facing because they can't afford to go on a vacation, or even afford the gas or the bus fare to go to the beach (let alone go to a job interview). I think they have more of a chance of staying an unhealthy weight. Then an employer who has the chance of hiring that person who can't even afford the internet payment the next month to apply to a job online and that person gets rejected. Then when that person goes online to talk to people about his situation and those same stupid ignorant people say that it's his or her fault they are going through what they are going to and they should be ashamed of themselves. Then that same stupid ignorant numb skull says "oh they are fat..." Is this ringing any bells or do you only want to see things your way and not get your head out of your behind?
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 10, 2017 Author Posted December 10, 2017 http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/why-poverty-leads-obesity-and-life-long-problems And not all are fat either. https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-hunger-us
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 10, 2017 Author Posted December 10, 2017 And FTR I don't think asking you for examples is becoming hostile. I told you to give specific examples then you became hostile then I gave you a taste of your own medicine which you found disgusting and assumed I was an SJW and then I told you I wasn't an SJW and since you don't have any rational arguments you started to down vote my stuff and not respond to any of the arguments I made until you responded to @Fashus Maximus. @Fashus Maximus on the other had disagreed with what I said with out being a jerk and we had a regular cordial and civil conversation after that. Something I don't think you'd know how to comprehend because you're more interested in attacking people and condescending to them rather than understand where they are coming from. Although I can't really blame you 100% maybe that's just the kind of culture or environment you grew up in.
Fashus Maximus Posted December 10, 2017 Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Wuzzums said: Yes, because taking time out of my day to try to help a stranger is being condescending... You labeled him a snowflake for simply stating an opinion, and assumed he was blaming his situation on the state of the economy when all he did was cite some stats and an article for context. Yes, that's condescending. No one forced you to take time out of your day. And no one cares, snowflake. Talk about projection, sheesh. 1 hour ago, Wuzzums said: You get a downvote for your lack of logic and another downvote for making me waste my words. You get an imaginary medal for your internet bravery. 1 hour ago, Wuzzums said: Furthermore if the thread isn't about him how come he instantly became hostile when I brought it to a personal level? Because you were condescending, see cause and effect. Gotta say, you're having a rough time on this thread.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 10, 2017 Author Posted December 10, 2017 You know what the ironic thing is I actually came here thinking that most people who listen to Stephan Molynuex are logical people who want to help people out. Here I see Mr. Gold Donator with 668 up votes who doesn't isn't take time to step out of his paradigm and look at things from another perspective. Truth be told this was an experiment to see if Molynuex types are actually here to help or they are only here to push an agenda and shove their philosophy down other people's throats @Fashus Maximus takes the time to listen and actually care but, other types are only interested in pushing a narrative and furthering their own stereotypes. So you're a gold donator well Money talks and we all know what walks. About the words he thinks he wasted well his words are as valuable as turds they just stink and contribute to nothing.
Revolutionary Thinking Posted December 11, 2017 Author Posted December 11, 2017 I also think the one saving grace in all of this is that I'm mentally stable and I have a support network. I'm just afraid for all the other people online who can come across something like this who are actually suicidal and on the verge of hurting themselves because of their pain and suffering. Instead of coming and getting sympathy and hope they'll come across people like @Wuzzums and get condescension and hatred. Sadly the atheists would be right in living in a godless world.
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