MysterionMuffles Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 If you haven't heard of Owen Benjamin, succintly put, he's an up and coming philosophical comedian. He also thankfully makes vlogs to delve deeper into what he thinks about so they're just not limited to needing punch lines!
eschiedler Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 Just no, everything was wrong in this video. He's a massive mangina.
barn Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 Totally subscribe. Women want, need, find sexy this: Integrity. Barnsley
eschiedler Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 13 hours ago, Jsbrads said: Esch, that isn’t an argument. You are correct. The OP didn't make an argument. Owen Benjamin doesn't make an argument (he strings a few rationalizations together about why he loves being in love with a woman and justifying his choices to get married, although loosely). It is a poor presentation by a professional actor (the umbrella category over that of a professional comedian). Neither took the time to do so. So why should I bother? I can just make a "summary" of an argument, which is to point out something with a correct identification. Owen has clearly given up his rational mind to be in a "love bond" with a woman, as anything else would be too painful for him. Since that is the definition of a mangina, then it is appropriate to call things by their proper name.
Jsbrads Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 And after he made that decision he says he prefers this new married life that he kinda jumped into. I am not claiming that you will like it, but you may be surprised
MysterionMuffles Posted December 19, 2017 Author Posted December 19, 2017 The argument was that women need men who give a shit. Men who can put an effort into something as it is a sign of someone who can acquire and provide resources to a woman. They also want men who have values and moral integrity. If that's what you think the definition of a mangina is, then I'll gladly call myself a fellow mangina.
eschiedler Posted December 19, 2017 Posted December 19, 2017 To Jsbrads, That is a rationalization of an illogical decision. I don't want any part of that. Nor should any sane person. Not only is the initial mistake bad, the repeated follow-up mistakes compound the problem. To MysterionMuffles, That position is contradictory. A man can't care a lot and give away hard work at the same time. Men want something back for the hard work and want what they get back in return to be more than what they give, so it is ultimately selfish. Men want love from the woman in value more than the effort to earn it constantly... it's a "money pit" in a sense and an abyss into which men throw away their reason. Women go along with it because, as such as women, and I emphasize as such, they don't know the meaning of value. They stay with men who tell them a stream of creative and beautiful lies. If women valued any of that (men who give a shit, values, moral integrity, etc.) then we wouldn't see a tidal wave of divorces, affairs and reciprocal domestic violence THROUGHOUT history in actual marriages where men act as if they give a shit, have values, and moral integrity. We wouldn't see 99% relationship failure among people who date and switch partners, with or without sex, before a long term domestic relationship including marriage. I wrote everything in this thread out of respect for men's minds in the spirit of philosophical discourse, and I request that it be read as such. However, I will not be able to respond to rebuttals for two weeks due to the holidays.
smarterthanone Posted December 19, 2017 Posted December 19, 2017 He said he still would have married his wife if she had already had kids from a prior partner. Ummm ok, how about no. He does say some good stuff but some is just wrong.
Ninja Posted December 20, 2017 Posted December 20, 2017 On 2017-12-19 at 7:24 AM, eschiedler said: To Jsbrads, That is a rationalization of an illogical decision. I don't want any part of that. Nor should any sane person. Not only is the initial mistake bad, the repeated follow-up mistakes compound the problem. To MysterionMuffles, That position is contradictory. A man can't care a lot and give away hard work at the same time. Men want something back for the hard work and want what they get back in return to be more than what they give, so it is ultimately selfish. Men want love from the woman in value more than the effort to earn it constantly... it's a "money pit" in a sense and an abyss into which men throw away their reason. Women go along with it because, as such as women, and I emphasize as such, they don't know the meaning of value. They stay with men who tell them a stream of creative and beautiful lies. If women valued any of that (men who give a shit, values, moral integrity, etc.) then we wouldn't see a tidal wave of divorces, affairs and reciprocal domestic violence THROUGHOUT history in actual marriages where men act as if they give a shit, have values, and moral integrity. We wouldn't see 99% relationship failure among people who date and switch partners, with or without sex, before a long term domestic relationship including marriage. I wrote everything in this thread out of respect for men's minds in the spirit of philosophical discourse, and I request that it be read as such. However, I will not be able to respond to rebuttals for two weeks due to the holidays. It isn't necessary that men want to exploit women/people. If a man/person has consistent moral integrity his standard for relationships will require the exchange to be mutually beneficial. A person who values society over their own immediate desires wouldn't take advantage of someone's ignorance by having them agree to something that would benefit one person by exploiting the other. Genitals do not determine whether a persons intellect is capable of grasping the concept of value. The reason there are so many women and men who prioritize immediate gratification over moral integrity, who do not have the capacity to grasp the superior value of respecting and upholding universal moral principals over hedonism, is the artificial growth of the demographic of people who are intellectually dependant on those above IQ100 through the redistribution of wealth via taxation/theft. The government steals money from productive people and gives it to people who only have the capacity to concern themselves with their own immediate satisfaction. It has escalated to the degree that there are more people who require subsidies than those who pay for them/earn enough to sustain their existence in USA. Our apathy toward the practice and results of taxation is certainly a part of the problem. R selected behaviour is not gender specific.
Ninja Posted December 20, 2017 Posted December 20, 2017 As someone who did not develop a penis, I would sum up what a woman wants in relation to every aspect of a marriage/relationship in the word 'security'. Without security a woman's work is never done. Biologically, woman need a sanctuary where they can create more humans. If a woman feels the threat of needing to flee or abandonment she will be neurotic and distressed. You know what they say, 'happy wife, happy life', well, you keep her happy with consistency so that she can be free to nurture what she loves, namely, consistency.
Elizbaeth Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 On 12/17/2017 at 1:21 PM, barn said: Totally subscribe. Women want, need, find sexy this: Integrity. Barnsley
barn Posted December 28, 2017 Posted December 28, 2017 49 minutes ago, Elizbaeth said: Hahaha. That's right.
Jsbrads Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Many women in Los Angeles turn down men who aren’t above a certain financial stature. Most of these women have never accomplished anything of note and some of them aren’t very young either. One person posted a profile by one women who was quiet frank about the dollars a suitor would need to get with her. Most are less honest.
Spladam Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 I'm going to take the optimists approach and claim that it's worth the effort to have moral integrity in the case that you find a woman who also upholds moral integrity. Why? Because that scenario (both partners with moral integrity) is the most desirable outcome in terms of reproductive success. Such an outcome can't be achieved if it is never attempted. Does having moral integrity get a woman turned on? I don't know and it doesn't matter. If women have the free will to make their own decisions, then they should be able to use their brain and moral compass to find a man who is best suited for raising a family with. If these women exist, then they will choose the men with moral integrity over the sexy alpha males. If all fails and you are getting into your 60's and you have not yet raised a family, then there are always sperm banks and sluts
eschiedler Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Spladam said: I'm going to take the optimists approach and claim that it's worth the effort to have moral integrity in the case that you find a woman who also upholds moral integrity. Why? Because that scenario (both partners with moral integrity) is the most desirable outcome in terms of reproductive success. Such an outcome can't be achieved if it is never attempted. Does having moral integrity get a woman turned on? I don't know and it doesn't matter. If women have the free will to make their own decisions, then they should be able to use their brain and moral compass to find a man who is best suited for raising a family with. If these women exist, then they will choose the men with moral integrity over the sexy alpha males. If all fails and you are getting into your 60's and you have not yet raised a family, then there are always sperm banks and sluts If you follow the philosopher's path in life and pursue 100% moral integrity, you will achieve the greatest thing of all, wisdom and a life of absolute perfection. It is truly the greatest thing a man can achieve. But if you do pursue wisdom, you will never make a woman happy.
Spladam Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Just now, eschiedler said: But if you do pursue wisdom, you will never make a woman happy. But does that also rule out ever procreating and raising a family with one?
barn Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Women raise children, men raise adults. It is a relationship, a dynamic based on deferral on merits. The better each parent has internalised virtues(had done their homework, self subscribed), the more chance the relationship has in providing a good framework for the child's individual development and the happier the realm of being a parent-parenting-sharing life becomes. You get what you are willing to pay for and if you think what you have is enough, that's exactly what you were willing to pay for. (the contrary is also true 'ie. don't think', but it can be harder to accept) Happiness is hard to find and hard to keep, therefore it's of outmost importance that one is truthful and remembers that there's an opportunity cost associated with everything. And second, that accepting responsibility brings about capability to allocate responsibility for others too; it means seeing clearly choices having been made. It sounds to me @Spladam that you are willing to pay the price for happiness and if my assertion is correct, MORE POWER TO YOU! Barnsley
Spladam Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Just now, barn said: It sounds to me @Spladam that you are willing to pay the price for happiness and if my assertion is correct, MORE POWER TO YOU! Haha, cheers mate, I'm still contemplating the whole thing. But like I said, I may as well try
Elizbaeth Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 4:40 AM, Spladam said: 'm going to take the optimists approach and claim that it's worth the effort to have moral integrity in the case that you find a woman who also upholds moral integrity. Why? Because that scenario (both partners with moral integrity) is the most desirable outcome in terms of reproductive success. Such an outcome can't be achieved if it is never attempted. Does having moral integrity get a woman turned on? I don't know and it doesn't matter. If women have the free will to make their own decisions, then they should be able to use their brain and moral compass to find a man who is best suited for raising a family with. If these women exist, then they will choose the men with moral integrity over the sexy alpha males. If all fails and you are getting into your 60's and you have not yet raised a family, then there are always sperm banks and sluts Yeah, women get turned on by men with moral values. I would think it might be easier for men to get a women turned on by his integrity since women (even those without a working moral compass) are turned on more by behaviors than looks. A man can be alpha (at least in her eyes) and still be very ugly. I would think women have a predisposition that makes them open to learning and growing with a man. On 1/5/2018 at 3:24 AM, barn said: Women raise children, men raise adults. I think this is extremely true. I used to read comments like this on reddit/r/theredpill and felt very insulted and wondered if men held any respect or felt that women were valuable at all. When I was growing up I had always thought only stupid women wanted to stay home and only do kid stuff - I felt a very special contempt for stay-at-Home moms, and was sure that they were dumb, simple, and might as well have gone off and died for as much as they mattered in society. But I think that I just hated excepting my own femininity and thought that if I were smart I would be a man, only prettier. I no longer feel that it’s insulting to say that a woman raises children and a man raises adults. I see it in my own experience - I have a hard time separating the emotions of my children from my own emotions, and vis versa. I feel it so deeply. I think this is good - I don’t know that I would have been able to stay up with them for nights on end if there comfort was not the same as my own. I realize that there will come a time when it will be unhealthy for them to stay in the realm of my vaguely narcissistic, consuming type of love, but I don’t know that I will be able to turn off that bond at will. It’s there for a reason and it is lovely right now. It’s a type of bond I could never have dreamed up. It’s just heaven. But that means that I will have to accept my husband taking a more prominent role later on. I think it will be quite painful when this happens... it seems a little unfair. I have such a small window to actually be what I feel like I was created for.
eschiedler Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 5 hours ago, Elizbaeth said: Yeah, women get turned on by men with moral values. I would think it might be easier for men to get a women turned on by his integrity since women (even those without a working moral compass) are turned on more by behaviors than looks. That's scientifically a false statement; it's been proven in countless studies that you get crickets if you demonstrate clear values to women. They like attractive looks and beautiful lies. A for my part, yes, I've met countless women, though if you meet one and fully understand her you've met them all. 5 hours ago, Elizbaeth said: I think this is extremely true. I used to read comments like this on reddit/r/theredpill and felt very insulted and wondered if men held any respect or felt that women were valuable at all. Men who try do date and impregnate (have intercourse with, etc) are the true mysoginists, they want to keep women in an infantilized state in order to have sex with them. Most of society wants to keep women infantilized. It's terrible waste of both men's minds and women's lives. But if you tell a woman you respect her mind, she'll be insulted as if you bluntly told her that you find her unattractive. 5 hours ago, Elizbaeth said:
barn Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 Hi @eschiedler Those are some harsh carpet-napalm-blankety words mate. It sounds (I might be completely off) like you're saying women are (although I am certain you can find amongst) vain, weak-willed, carbon copies of the same, limited intellectually. At least that's what you wrote about, by the looks of it. Barnsley
meetjoeblack Posted January 8, 2018 Posted January 8, 2018 On 17/12/2017 at 12:24 PM, eschiedler said: Just no, everything was wrong in this video. He's a massive mangina. 1 +1 Tons of betas, White knights, and cucks now a days. Spineless and cowardice. At this stage in my life, I couldn't give a damn what a woman wants in a man nor her self expectations. I don't care to meet standards, to play into hypergamy or the process of seeking one's approval and validation. I am switched off from this. I spam cold approach. A woman either bites or she does not but, no sleep is lost. I have my own values, beliefs, ambitions, desires, motivations, and its above playing homemaker with cratered SMV. If I ever were to marry, it will be someone on the early side of 20s when dating or not at all. The aim for responsibility, for pursuing the female biological imperative of dating, and following the beaten path in society is laughable at best. LOL @ Women turned on by men with morals! I am sure the single moms, the women with cratered SMV were chasing men of high values.
M.2 Posted January 8, 2018 Posted January 8, 2018 For those good men still in the dark... If you ever rocked the Stahlhelm and survived a war, you had a 100% chance of reproducing - you can't argue with data, nor can you argue with honest women.
HasMat Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 5:46 PM, meetjoeblack said: LOL @ Women turned on by men with morals! Morality and social dominance are about as polar opposite as possible. Dominating others is an act of aggression. There are social hierarchies were morality is a metric of social status, but this is a case of 2 things coinciding, not morality actually causing female desire. I think morality and social dominance are extremely highly negatively correlated.
Siegfried von Walheim Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 59 minutes ago, shirgall said: o.o Is that a euphemism for what I think THAT is????
shirgall Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 11 hours ago, Siegfried von Walheim said: o.o Is that a euphemism for what I think THAT is???? Just a straightforward pun. "What Women Actually Want in a Man" -> their hooks.
Elizbaeth Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 7:46 PM, meetjoeblack said: At this stage in my life, I couldn't give a damn what a woman wants in a man nor her self expectations. I don't care to meet standards, to play into hypergamy or the process of seeking one's approval and validation. I am switched off from this. Woman are all innately hypergamous. If she claims there is not the least bit of hypergamy in her more animalistic instincts than she’s just lying. But. Women aren’t walking she-apes. Some women have moral compunctions and compassion and values outside of pure animal sex drives. Hypergamy is not as evil as it seems. It just is. It’s only evil when it’s paired with a woman without a conscience. Just like a man desiring youth and fertility is not evil in itself. It’s only evil if he does evil things in the name of youth and fertility. Hypergamy comes out of desperate times. Babies are soooooo demanding. Sometimes I can hardly clean the house (pretty simply stuff) because they’re just too needy. That’s modern times, and I live in a comfortable house with appliances and plenty of food and tons of help. If I had not chosen someone a little older, with a good career and a house and a lot of money already saved, how could I possibly have been able to do my job? Now imagine that there’s no electricity, no ready food amounts, and I have small, demanding, terribly needy creatures that hobble and limit my abilities to go out and provide and protect. My job is to keep danger from them - at cost to me - and to ensure their survival and health and development. I need someone to keep the wolves and the cold away from me, because I’m busy keeping it away from the babies. I need someone to bring me food because I cannot leave these babies to go out and hunt it. The alternative to this arrangement almost always ends in the babies suffering. Hypergamy is as dangerous to men and men’s desire for youth and fertility is dangerous to women. Empathy and life-long, monogamous commitment is the way for both to work together. There really is no other way. 1
Siegfried von Walheim Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Elizbaeth said: Woman are all innately hypergamous. If she claims there is not the least bit of hypergamy in her more animalistic instincts than she’s just lying. But. Women aren’t walking she-apes. Some women have moral compunctions and compassion and values outside of pure animal sex drives. Hypergamy is not as evil as it seems. It just is. It’s only evil when it’s paired with a woman without a conscience. Just like a man desiring youth and fertility is not evil in itself. It’s only evil if he does evil things in the name of youth and fertility. Hypergamy comes out of desperate times. Babies are soooooo demanding. Sometimes I can hardly clean the house (pretty simply stuff) because they’re just too needy. That’s modern times, and I live in a comfortable house with appliances and plenty of food and tons of help. If I had not chosen someone a little older, with a good career and a house and a lot of money already saved, how could I possibly have been able to do my job? Now imagine that there’s no electricity, no ready food amounts, and I have small, demanding, terribly needy creatures that hobble and limit my abilities to go out and provide and protect. My job is to keep danger from them - at cost to me - and to ensure their survival and health and development. I need someone to keep the wolves and the cold away from me, because I’m busy keeping it away from the babies. I need someone to bring me food because I cannot leave these babies to go out and hunt it. The alternative to this arrangement almost always ends in the babies suffering. Hypergamy is as dangerous to men and men’s desire for youth and fertility is dangerous to women. Empathy and life-long, monogamous commitment is the way for both to work together. There really is no other way. Frankly I think the fear of hypergamy is invalid. A smart female sociopath ought to know she can't bag the best man if she cheats on her existing one to get him because the best man, by definition, is wary of disloyalty and wouldn't commit to a woman who herself is proven unreliable. Hypergamy is merely another word for "discriminatory" or "selective", i.e. having standards. A dumb and/or low impulse-control women are never going to climb high because good men smell them from a mile away and steer clear. High IQ/high impulse-control women however will not only select quality but commit because they know once you go in, there's no going out because the highest quality men (and women I'm sure) aren't interested in hand-me-downs and/or those with a history of either being unreliable or choosing unreliable. In other words, hypergamy is great because it cuts the wheat from the chaff. I.e., it makes the bad women obvious (trail of either bad men or betrayal of decent men) and the good women also obvious (has no history of commitment then betrayal/abandonment). 100 years ago bad women had huge incentives to pretend to be good, requiring men be far smarter in sussing them out whereas now bad women are out in the open. Not ALL of them (I'm sure, like I said above, the smart female sociopath is acting good because she knows better) but the overwhelming majority of them.
Siegfried von Walheim Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 8:36 AM, shirgall said: Just a straightforward pun. "What Women Actually Want in a Man" -> their hooks. Yeah, a BIG hook!
shirgall Posted January 18, 2018 Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, RichardY said: So all women are Hookers Or, all good men are hooked.
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